Are You Disappointed by Valve?

U

Upandgo

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You're not the only ones. Valve has become a stupid company by developing steam. Steam - sure, it's great right? IT gives us all the updates without the hassle of downloading it ourselves. Wrong. The servers are so laggy when updates are handed out.

And plus - there's a lot valve hasn't told you. Let my quote some of my friends on the legal terms of Valve and Steam and their EULA ( End User License Agreement ).

Here is the relevant section in their EULA:

Section 5, paragraph 3.

Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, Cheating or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.

I think where the error lies here is that you agree to this for every subscription, it isn't one agreement for multiple subscriptions, it is effectively a different agreement per subscription. So they can't disable one account because of illegal stuff on other accounts, because the other accounts are separate.

shercipher, section 12 says they are allowed to change the EULA giving 30 days notice. But that part of section 5 also says they are not required to give notice.
That's all good and well, but is that wrong? Although they say they don't need to give notice, should they by law?
I agree with "believes is illegal" as well. They need to "know" it is illegal, and give proof. "Believes" is a bit vague. But they are also wrong on disabling other accounts you own as I mentioned before.


edit: the other thing is define "illegal" (for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal). Who says that exploiting a bug in a program to get access to files that the program supplies is illegal. It's like saying bunny hopping in cs is illegal because I'm using a bug to my advantage.

I might be wrong, someone who knows what they are talking about comment on this.
Click to expand...

I've been carefully looking over that particular paragraph. Unfortunatly, thats that, and thier EULA is final: its also almost perfectly legal. But one thing is questionable:

- They don't have to tell me? Why not?
- "believes" does not cut it. It has to be illegal, and they must give you a reason, or this can be classified as something called "Denial of Service". That is easily recognized by a hacker as the kind of attack which allowes someone to deny a program or a service to you. The EULA never says they can ban your account FOR NO REASON.

And true, they cannot an other accounts because of activities in one, nor can they disable accounts because of previous behaviors. In fact, they shouldn't be allowed to disable Steam at all. Think of what the EULA says..."this distrubs other subscribers playing Steam". Playing offline doesn't disturb some junkie in New Jersey, so why the f**k doesn't it even let me play Half-Life.

But this case will have to be BIG. We need a company to back us up. We need multiple companies to back us up, complete with funding. Someone trustable needs to set up a donations system, to help with the funding here. But in order to really pull this off, we are gonna need to twist some laws, especially in the USA. In fact, in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if thsi case was taken to the Supreme Court. Its not just a question of changing thier EULA, but we have to take away thier right to disable accounts without reason, because that is even direct violation of thier own EULA. I also bet that its illlegal in even the US to disable accounts without disclosing the reason.

But the best part is, once they wrote thier EULA, its final. At no point can they ever change it, or update it with 'security' which is only attempts to cover thier backs. No. They can't change it...and we have all the neccisary tools at our disposal, save a cadre of lawyers and funds, to destroy VALVe's felonious policies, and force them to pay up...

Thanks for reading through all that Smile
Click to expand...

A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND STEAM SOFTWARE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE STEAM SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

12. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT
Valve may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion. As a Subscriber, you agree that Valve may amend the terms of this Agreement. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after posting the new amended Agreement on Steam. You agree to review the Agreement periodically to become aware of such amendments. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com. Your failure to cancel your Account thirty (30) days after an amended Agreement is posted on Steam will mean that you accept all such amendments. If you don't agree to the amendments, or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription.
Click to expand...

It is illegal to change their EULA or their subscribers agreement. Since you must agree to both, and since they bind you, it is in effect a contract (since it was never stated otherwise) and if it is changed, then this is a termination of that contract.

It never states two things, which are Valve's fatal error:
1) That it is not a contract
2) That it can be terminated at Valve's discretion

Therefore, if they change thier agreement or break it...and since they never specified awards or reimbursement, its up to the courts to decide.
Click to expand...


Well you might say, I love steam and valve. They gave us the games and without them, we'd be nowhere!

Well; they gave us the game, but instead of giving us the finished product, they gave us the beta. How many god-forsaken hackers have you seen in CSS? Where's VAC2? How many damn bugs can you count in HL2?

You might disagree with me, but then note the quotes. Those have all been marked specially, because valve is illegally banning people.

Think of it this way - a illegal user gone straight.

The result, he gets banned.

Of course you may argue that he deserves it.

But where on the EULA does it say that?

On the emails they gave to a friend of mine, with the answer to why his legit account was banned, it said "...we take into consideration what is done on other accounts too." Well it says no where on the EULA that they'll do that.

There have been even numerous reports of people's accounts being banned for no reason.

Also, what's very sickening about valve, is the censorship that goes on in steampowered forums.
If you start a topic with evidence such as this one, they'll delete it in less than 2 minutes. It was clocked. If that isn't censorship, what is?

The law is the law. You may say that's bullshit, but so is the law for murder.

Well, thank you for reading this far.
 
in all the times i played css, i got 0 hackers and barely a few bugs. in hl2 deathmatch, no hackers and no bugs =)
 
If I didn't have A.D.D. I would have read all that.
 
Tr0n said:
If I didn't have A.D.D. I would have read all that.
Click to expand...

hahahah, same here

but without reading that, I'm not mad at them in the slightest
 
What is this "seperation of accounts" stuff? the EULA is for steam as software in its own right, which naturally includes the accounts under it.
If you violate the EULA, you get the right to use steam revoked. Thats fair, simple, and straightforward. Valve is well within their rights to stipulate whatever conditions they have so far.

It never states two things, which are Valve's fatal error:
1) That it is not a contract
Click to expand...

Its a license agreement, which is legally binding; a contract.

2) That it can be terminated at Valve's discretion
Click to expand...

EULA said:
You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.. ok, yeah.

There is no basis for all this legal "i'm gonna sue valve" sabre-rattling.

EDIT:
any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal
Click to expand...

That would refer to illegal under US or international law. Not bunnyhopping. Read the EULA properly.

EDIT2:
"believes" does not cut it. It has to be illegal, and they must give you a reason, or this can be classified as something called "Denial of Service". That is easily recognized by a hacker as the kind of attack which allowes someone to deny a program or a service to you. The EULA never says they can ban your account FOR NO REASON.
Click to expand...

1) "believes"... try reading other EULA's.. that is not by any stretch a unique phrase, and of course is subject to reasonable bounds, not gabe throwing darts at a dartboard.
2) "FOR NO REASON" is never implied, thats why they say "believes".. jeez.

This is just angry, baseless rambing by someone who either got banned for cheating or couldnt get steam to work right on their computer.


EDIT3: In fact, before you sign up to this site to complain about something you seem to clearly know nothing about, you should at least check the basic logic in your argument (or lack thereof).
Someone ranting about steam with a post count of 1 is hardly going to have any credibility especially when under even the most glancing and vague inspection, the theory being presented falls to dust.

One of these threads pops up every other week with the same attitude that Valve is cheating people and that they're some evil monster corporation. Jeez. Get a clue. Read the EULA of Microsoft word, or Internet Explorer (its in the help menu I believe)- and understand what it means in the grand scale of things before starting a big rant like you've discovered some giant conspiracy.
 
bliink... you needn't of spent so much time typing.... :D

steam is cool for me. i normally wait a day or two before getting the updates, so i get them pretty quick. :D

i didn't read ur entire post either :p
 
Why should I be disappointed by VALVe? They didn't break up with me, they didn't shoot my dog, they didn't turn my family in and then I had to take VALVe out into a boat to get shot. It's a game company, not a close friend, I got my game and I'm happy, end of story.
 
I am a little dissapointed in Valve for choosing Steam. Online acitivation will never stop Warez and just adds possible problems for paying customers. I never had a problem with downloading patches separately, especially because the transition can take a few days, so no matter how long it takes you to get the patch you can always find a server to play on.

But saying that, I did pre-order Half-Life 2 through steam so I knew what I was getting for my money. I do feel sorry for those that bought it in the shops not realising they needed an internet connection. Valve could have made that clearer and I think Valve should step up and offer a refund to anyone who hasn't used the CD Key.
 
Alternatively, people should read the requirements clearly listed on the box before they buy the damn game.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Alternatively, people should read the requirements clearly listed on the box before they buy the damn game.
Click to expand...

damn game? :angry:

i read the requirements... but didn't realise that by "Internet Connection", it meant anything upwards of 28.8kbps... oh.. me and my poor 14.4kbps modem! :x

took 5 hours to verify the game! :O

but now that i have bb, i wuv steam
 
you better not be serious that you have 14.4 :|
 
They can change the EULA because you agreed to let them in the current EULA, It says that you must check the EULA on steampowered.com every 30 ays for ammendments, and you agreed to that. Valve would not let such big holes in the EULA, I've looked it over(when I was bored), and as a user who just plays games and doesn't tamper with steam/hack I have nothing to worry about.
 
Oh god the memories of my 14.4 days. Will they never cease to haunt me!
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Alternatively, people should read the requirements clearly listed on the box before they buy the damn game.
Click to expand...
Like many people have said before, it wasn't clearly stated that you needed a connection to play the single player components of Half-Life 2. You expect to see "internet connection" listed on the back of the box for a game that has online multiplayer components. The very fact that so many people were caught out and are now complaining shows that it wasn't clear enough. Just listing "internet connection" as a requirement doesn't make it obvious what steam is and how it functions. I don't think its unreasonable to give a refund to people who cannot activate the game.
 
PickledGecko said:
Like many people have said before, it wasn't clearly stated that you needed a connection to play the single player components of Half-Life 2. You expect to see "internet connection" listed on the back of the box for a game that has online multiplayer components. The very fact that so many people were caught out and are now complaining shows that it wasn't clear enough. Just listing "internet connection" as a requirement doesn't make it obvious what steam is and how it functions. I don't think its unreasonable to give a refund to people who cannot activate the game.
Click to expand...


Publisher's fault all together.
 
i don't have a problem with Valve and their Steam idea.
i figured some game developer would do this at some point and so it happenened to be Valve.
 
Steam is good, I think if you hate steam so bad play a different game. Steam has came a long ways thats for sure, allso cheaters are lame and anything that counters cheating is good in my book. And I have encountered tons of cheating in cs : s even knifed a speed hacker was great.
 
Look, jebus, Steam is good. Fairly good. I prefer it to having to navigate through unexplrable, inexplicable sites that pretend to link to the new patch but instead link to RUssian Brides.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Alternatively, people should read the requirements clearly listed on the box before they buy the damn game.
Click to expand...
I can only speak for the UK version, but it's in no way explicit that you need a net connection to play the game. Unless by explicit you mean a minimum requirements list that's less than 2CM tall and lists "Internet Connection" under "Other". When you think about it, yes it means that "Internet Connection" is a "minimum requirement", but can anyone honestly say that they even look at the minimum requirements list on any game, let alone study it in depth to decipher what exactly its saying. Vivendi are dicks: no primarily offline game in the history of PC games has ever required an internet connection to basically function, so why the hell don't they flag that fact up a little better?

Well, the UK packaging sucks massively anyway. Third point down: "Stunning Graphics". We all know how true that is, so why the hell do the graphic designers think. "I know, lets use screenshots from the Pre-E3 2003 build". One Screenshot of Wasp-coloured Combines firing off OICWs at blurred non-bump mapped Antlions, and another with blue suited zombies, mostly looking the wrong way. This is not the Half-Life 2 you get to play, and thank god for that. Not only do modern companies still employ slave simian labour in typing pools, they've set the particuarlly dumb ones loose on Photoshop equipped laptops.

Am I disappointed by Valve? Not at all. They created the finest game i've ever sat through, and the only game I've sat through 3+ times in 2 or more years. Steam is fine, and I don't understand why people bitch about it so much. It should especially be championed because it's cutting out the middle-man - and in this case, the middle man belongs in a cage with a tyre swing, a healthy supply of bananas and a penchant for playing with itself whenever you're visting with your grandparents.

Damned Dirty Apes.
 
Upandgo said:
You're not the only ones. Valve has become a stupid company by developing steam. Steam - sure, it's great right? IT gives us all the updates without the hassle of downloading it ourselves. Wrong. The servers are so laggy when updates are handed out.

And plus - there's a lot valve hasn't told you. Let my quote some of my friends on the legal terms of Valve and Steam and their EULA ( End User License Agreement ).










Well you might say, I love steam and valve. They gave us the games and without them, we'd be nowhere!

Well; they gave us the game, but instead of giving us the finished product, they gave us the beta. How many god-forsaken hackers have you seen in CSS? Where's VAC2? How many damn bugs can you count in HL2?

You might disagree with me, but then note the quotes. Those have all been marked specially, because valve is illegally banning people.

Think of it this way - a illegal user gone straight.

The result, he gets banned.

Of course you may argue that he deserves it.

But where on the EULA does it say that?

On the emails they gave to a friend of mine, with the answer to why his legit account was banned, it said "...we take into consideration what is done on other accounts too." Well it says no where on the EULA that they'll do that.

There have been even numerous reports of people's accounts being banned for no reason.

Also, what's very sickening about valve, is the censorship that goes on in steampowered forums.
If you start a topic with evidence such as this one, they'll delete it in less than 2 minutes. It was clocked. If that isn't censorship, what is?

The law is the law. You may say that's bullshit, but so is the law for murder.

Well, thank you for reading this far.
Click to expand...
You know what.. I'm not gonna let that bother me. It's just a game. If you do wrong, your gonna get punished. Seems fair to me.
 
CREMATOR666 said:
If Valve BELIEVE you are wrong :p
Click to expand...
It's all a lot of hot air over nothing, its just a video game.

Besides so far everyone who's come here complaining about being screwed by Valve unfairly, has turned out to have been lying about being innocent in the end. Half the complaints are even made up from people who aren't even aware that pirating software is illegal. So really I'd not listen to those folk :)
 
If I do something illegal on their system - like credit card fraud - SHIT - I won't get away with it...

... I'll loose my Steam account.

Well, that's really bad isn't it :upstare:
 
Hopefully something happens that makes them have to get rid of Steam. I checked the size of my Vlave folder and it's nearly 10GB, lame. All this auto-update crap that you have no idea how much disk space it's taking up, or what the update is even for, or even the filsize of the update.
 
StardogChampion said:
Hopefully something happens that makes them have to get rid of Steam. I checked the size of my Vlave folder and it's nearly 10GB, lame. All this auto-update crap that you have no idea how much disk space it's taking up, or what the update is even for, or even the filsize of the update.
Click to expand...

You know that you can turn off autoupdate and check Steam News for details of updates, right?
 
jondyfun said:
You know that you can turn off autoupdate and check Steam News for details of updates, right?
Click to expand...
Ahh, out comes the general reply to people like me.

How can we play online without being updated?
 
StardogChampion said:
Ahh, out comes the general reply to people like me.

How can we play online without being updated?
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to come off arrogant or anything, soz buddy. But even the original HL needed updates for online play and once the servers were patched you had to update to play. So it's pretty much the same as ye good old days; apart from the fact that it's easier to update.

Besides, who likes buggy online play?
 
Just... shush.

Valve is not behind some veiled conspiracy to **** you in the ass.
 
It's obvious that the thread starter knows nothing about the games industry and what a huge step forward STEAM could possibly be.

I've had 0 problems with STEAM and even on the release date of Half-Life 2 I had everything up and working by noon. If you're pirating VALVe's games and trying to use hacked CD keys or fake CC numbers then you get everything you deserve in VALVe ban you off your account.
 
"I AM SO PISSED OFF. I WAS JUST TESTING OUT THIS WALLHACK ON THE ACCOUNT I GOT WITH A FALSE CREDIT CARD (DOES NOT MATTER, THO!) AND THOSE DAMNED NAZI BASTARDS VALVE BANNED ME! I EVEN LOST THE $5 CS COPY I FISHED OUT THE BARGAIN BIN WHEN MY ILLEGAL KEY GOT BANNED!"

"What?"

"YUO NOT ALLOWED TO TALK!"
 
I haven't a problem with the EULA, since I haven't broken any rules/the agreement I still have my accounts.
 
what I dont understand is why people who hate valve still buy their products. "hmmm I dont like liver so I think I'll buy 10 pounds of it ....just because"


valve owes you nothing, you pay for what you get

I think valve do a termendous job of giving us value for the buck ..I spent grand total of 10$ (ati coupon) and I have every single game ever made by valve ..if that isnt a deal I dont know what is
 
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