Bethesda to announce new game Nov1st: Fallout3?

[Max35]

Also, consider Bethesda has bought the rights to the Star Trek games...and the bigger likelihood of it being an OB expansion.

 

[Silencer_NMA]

Oh Of course I know what Fallout is about. I have Fallout 1 and 2. I've beaten Fallout 1 and 2.

The question is: How many times? It's not as if the game was particularly difficult (or long, in case of Fallout), so really, having "beaten" it (not "completed", mind you, not "explored", "studied" nor "savoured") proves nothing.

Do you know what it's about? Given your argument, I tend to doubt that.

Please, don't even pay attention to anything regarding Fallout 3. Tell your friends too. Elitist pricks.

It's a free country, capisco?

Its 2006. Someone obviously glorifies the 50s if he can't accept change :|.

Oh, so now you know what Fallout is about and it's set in the 50s?

And how you must loathe those who play games set in a medieval settings... Aren't they backwards!

Get your facts about the Fallout setting strainght - it's a 22nd century after an alternate fifties' past. Go watch "Back to the Future II" to have dr Emmet Brown explain that to you (or is that flick not good i.e. new enough for you?)

 

[mortiz]

Anyone who wants Oblivion with guns just hasn't thought it through. Imagine if they turned the next Super Mario game into an FPS shoot 'em up? Would you still be able to call it a true Super Mario game with a straight face? The same with Fallout, Fallout is fallout, it's a package, and you can't rip out most of what was in Fallout and still call it Fallout. It'd be Fallout in name only and that's not what people want. The view-point, the combat, the interface and yes, the setting and story all went into giving Fallout it's charm and atmosphere. Personally I couldn't stand Oblivion, I played it for a couple of weeks after it first came out but I haven't touched it in months. If that's the same way I feel about Fallout 3 after the joy that was Fallout I will not be best pleased. OBLIVION IS NOT AN RPG!!!!! It's an action adventure game with a stat system. Things that are historically important for a CRPG, such as a dialog system and a branching story, were done terribly. Fallout is a CRPG and therefore was built from a completely different mold. Hell, Oblivion is built from a completely different mold than it’s predecessors, TES: Arena and TES: Daggerfall. If they can completely mess up their own I.P. I haven’t much hope for Fallout 3.

 

[Asknoone]

OBLIVION IS NOT AN RPG!!!!! It's an action adventure game with a stat system.

Quoted for truth 1000 times over.

 

[Gargantou]

Yeah, though there are mods that make it far closer to an RPG.

 

[Tagaziel]

True, but it is like that situation, when you want a Chevrolet Corvette C4 in mint condition, you get a wreck and all the tools and materials necessary to make it (mostly) good, all the while people who don't know a damn about cars are "What a beautiful car", "OMFG SHINY!" etc. and all mainstream papers are also "OMFGKEWL".

 

[Gargantou]

My fav Elder Scrolls was Daggerfall anyway.*Oldschool*
I still like Oblivion, even unmodded, but as has been stated, it deff. ain't an RPG, but an action game with RPG influences, heck, way back when a editor on GameSpot wrote how Oblivion was the saviour of RPGs or w/e, I wrote a lengthy response explaining how much I disagreed, I even got an answer, have it somewhere on my GMail account!

Btw, speaking of post-apocalyptic RPGs, does anyone know wtf's up with The Fall: Last Days of Gaia? I mean is that EVER even coming out in English?

 

[Warbie]

Of course Oblivion is an rpg, how can it not be?

 

[SAJ]

Well , this is all getting a bit heated round here.
Is it my imagination , or did Mikael just draft in a fellow obsessive just in order to have a pop at mr Deus Ex ?

Originally Posted by mortiz
OBLIVION IS NOT AN RPG!!!!! It's an action adventure game with a stat system.

Well, RPG does infact stand for "role playing game" which I believe that all the Morrowind games have been (Oblivion included) . Just because a game doesnt have a turn-based interface or isometric 2D graphics , it doesnt preclude it from being an "RPG" in the truest sense of the term.

There is loyalty to a game's spirit/character and there is blind fanatacism to presentation and interface, it seems that a lot of Fallout's fanbase falls into the latter camp.

Now I dont qualify as a real Fallout fan (having only played Fallout 1 from beginning to end over 30+ hours) but I am keen to see more post-apocalyptic RPG or rpg games on my pc, and I especially want to see it in glorious, modern, first/third person 3D.
None of which is going to please the Fallout purists, but then again I suspect that the games industry will shaft them over and over till WW6.

 

[Gargantou]

all the Morrowind games have been (Oblivion included)

Err.. Oblivion ain't a Morrowind game, it's a Elder Scrolls game, as is Morrowind, jesus!!

 

[SAJ]

Youre right, I meant Elder scrolls though.

Pedant

 

[Warbie]

Just because a game doesnt have a turn-based interface or isometric 2D graphics , it doesnt preclude it from being an "RPG" in the truest sense of the term.

I'd actually like a return to isometric rpgs. The detail in the hand drawn backgrounds fills each game with a charm and personality lacking in virtually all 3d titles. Think what could be done with today's technology - no longer stuck with a 800*600 resolution, the game could be filled with movement and lovely special effects. It could be a sprawling work of art, a moving painting. The only limitation being the skill and imagination of the artists.

I also like being the observer this view point allows. While you're still playing a game, the experience can be rather similar to reading a fantasy book - watching a story unfold rather than being in it - especialy if the dialogue is good (Planescape). This has been a personal gripe of mine with nwn and Oblivion, they look and feel more like action games - bastard children of Baldur's Gate and Final Fight.

 

[theGreenBunny]

RPGDot has word it won't be Fallout 3. (Gavin Carter being a Bethesda employee)

 

[Gargantou]

Why would it be Fallout 3 anyway..?
They've already ANNOUNCED Fallout 3..

 

[Cerpin]

I almost wish they screw up Fallout 3 to upset that guy.

 

[Gargantou]

I don't really think it'd upset him, he's pretty much already decided Fallout 3 is screwed, what I think would upset him is to see Fallout 3 being supersuccesfull

 

[Cerpin]

Haha, that's probably true.

I'll sure buy it. I loved the original, the second was decent. I didn't care for tactics though.

 

[Tagaziel]

SAJ: Fallout was presented in a SUCCESFUL way, and if it's not broken, don't fix it. Van Buren is a perfect example of how Fallout 3 should evolve - a nicely looking 3D engine with an overhead camera allows for relatively detailed graphics, without forcing the devs to work on graphics exclusively (which was propably the case with the Oblivion shitfest) and allowing more time to be spent on the setting and story.

Third person isn't necessarily a bad thing, but how would you implement a world map? Or do you like, vast, endless, nuked out wastelands which take five minutes tops to cross from one end to another? The scale of the world in the first two Fallouts was immense - it took several days to get from one city to another - and how can this be implemented in a TPP game?

I see that people that actually care about integrity of a game's world are unwelcome here. Well, let me use an analogy - Bethesda doing Fallout 3 is like id Software doing Half-Life 3 - similar, but leagues apart.

Second, I bet that Fallout 3 will be succesful - with 12 year old spoiled, dumb kiddies with complete disregard for the Fallout story, canon and earlier installments.

Oh yeah, it seems OMFGSHINY! graphics and console-crowd dumbing down is the direction the game industry should take, right?

 

[SAJ]

I'd actually like a return to isometric rpgs. The detail in the hand drawn backgrounds fills each game with a charm and personality lacking in virtually all 3d titles. Think what could be done with today's technology - no longer stuck with a 800*600 resolution, the game could be filled with movement and lovely special effects. It could be a sprawling work of art, a moving painting. The only limitation being the skill and imagination of the artists.

But surely all that hold true in a FPS enviroment also ?
All that changes is the viewpoint of the player, the 3D enviroment would have to be built essentially the same for either fps or isometric.

I also like being the observer this view point allows. While you're still playing a game, the experience can be rather similar to reading a fantasy book - watching a story unfold rather than being in it - especialy if the dialogue is good (Planescape). This has been a personal gripe of mine with nwn and Oblivion, they look and feel more like action games - bastard children of Baldur's Gate and Final Fight.

Yeah , I get what youre saying about the observer viewpoint up to a point, it reminds me of the tabletop d&d experience, but I never felt like it gelled with guns and mutants in the same way it did with swords and sorcery (IMHO) .

Ironically there is a silver lining for the Fallout Morlocks in all of this. If Bethsheda do make a Fallout game for pc and x360, then they will probably make an isomtric turn-based version of it for the mobile phone market (like they did with oblivion).
Cant wait to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth that that announcement would herald.

 

[Cerpin]

SAJ: Fallout was presented in a SUCCESFUL way, and if it's not broken, don't fix it. Van Buren is a perfect example of how Fallout 3 should evolve - a nicely looking 3D engine with an overhead camera allows for relatively detailed graphics, without forcing the devs to work on graphics exclusively (which was propably the case with the Oblivion shitfest) and allowing more time to be spent on the setting and story.

Third person isn't necessarily a bad thing, but how would you implement a world map? Or do you like, vast, endless, nuked out wastelands which take five minutes tops to cross from one end to another? The scale of the world in the first two Fallouts was immense - it took several days to get from one city to another - and how can this be implemented in a TPP game?

I see that people that actually care about integrity of a game's world are unwelcome here. Well, let me use an analogy - Bethesda doing Fallout 3 is like id Software doing Half-Life 3 - similar, but leagues apart.

Second, I bet that Fallout 3 will be succesful - with 12 year old spoiled, dumb kiddies with complete disregard for the Fallout story, canon and earlier installments.

Oh yeah, it seems OMFGSHINY! graphics and console-crowd dumbing down is the direction the game industry should take, right?

Not to be picky, but a game studio actually has different people with different skills and abilities that work on different parts and aspects of the game. Just because Bethesda has a team working on graphics technology for two years, does not mean that they don't have teams working on the story and characters paralell to that.

It's not like they're going "Hey, our graphics suck. Let's get everyone, from accounting to script, over to the graphics department section. Big-Stein wants a re-route!".

I get what you are saying, and I too am a big fan of Fallout. Still, all manerisms of complaining and whining won't get us anywhere, because frankly, we are a minority. I loved Oblivion for what it was, and I sincerely hope Bethesta will do whatever they can to make Fallout 3 the best it can be. I've come to terms with that it won't be anything like the original or it's sequel, because there is nothing I can do about it.

 

[DeusExMachina]

DeusExMachina, you aren't proving anything, well, except your total lack of manners, comprehension and understanding of Fallout.

Let's vivisect your posts...

Here, instead of putting a well placed argument, regarding the plausibility of Bethesda making a worthy sequel, you resort to moron's arguments - ad personam, which do not have any place in an intelligent discussion. Apparently, you failed to learn that lesson at the age of twelve.

Your posts prove otherwise. I would love to know what Fallout is to you, and what it is to a majority of the fanbase, who STAY IN CONTACT with Fallout's original developers. Of course, this you call "lowest of low", well, exposes your attitutude to Fallout's design.

Another ad personam argument, easily debunked because you don't have a clue, captain Clueless, as to how Fallout was made and WHY we care for the game canon's integrity. Oh, and addressing us as "elitist pricks" won't buy you any respect on this forum, most posters have grown out of the kindergarten.

Ah, proof you don't know what you are talking about. The CORE of Fallout's design, stated time and time again, was the science fiction future, as envisioned by the people of the fifities, then nuked out. It's a retro-future stylisation, Fallout 1 and 2 posseses an Art-Deco stylisation (just examine the building in the Hub, Boneyards, even cars point to this). Of course, you can be one of those kiddies that want more real-life weapons in Fallout, weapons which don't fit in, because the timeline of FO diverged from ours in the 50s. Also, you seem to be optimistic about the dumbing down and neutering Fallout, taking away what made it great.

Get your act together, DEMpo. On one hand, you loathe the rape that Interplay done on Fallout with FO: POS (and to a degree, tactics), while on the other you are excusing dumbing it down for 'DA MASSES!', because they make companies profit. Am I missing something, or are you burning out those two lonely neurons in your skull?

Err, no. Dig around the news section of NMA, and read how Roshambo explains, why Bethesda will most likely whore out Fallout, like no company has done before.

This post gives a flicker of hope, that you may yet have what it takes to understand what Fallout is about. Namely, a brain to turn on while playing.

Concluding, I state, that us, NMA members, accept gradual changes, like they were introduced in Van Buren (the TRUE Fallout 3), not perverting the SPECIAL isometric turn-based system set in a gritty, post-apocalyptic lawless wasteland, where you can do what you please (even finish the game in under thirty minutes if you know how - THAT'S non-linear game construction) into a linear, OMGSHINY game, as full of substance as a Barbie doll is on a butcher's hook.

Sincerely,

Mikael Grizzly

PS: If you are going to cry "You used arguments aimed at me!", then re-read the post, they are used in conjecture with "ad rem" arguments, and as such, don't void my credibility, because I know what I'm saying.

Wow, thank you for completely judging my idea of what Fallout is without even considering I don't love Fallout myself. Yes, all I want is OMGSHINY graphics. You're absolutely right. Oh and using latin phrases, oh my. My tiny brain without brain cells can't handle it. How incredibly unnecessary. I'm in Latin III buddy, there's hundreds of better phrases you could've used. Unlike you, I'm not gonna waste my time googling for them to make my argument look more intelligent when I'm just insulting someone and please, don't act like that entire post wasn't insulting to me.
Yeah, I called you an elitist prick and a fanboy. Can't deny I didn't, so I won't. Whenever I read posts at Fallout fan sites, the fans act like a bunch of elitist pricks and fanboys. Someone comes in, "Oh wouldn't this idea be kind of cool in the Fallout setting?" Everyone attacks him. A simple "No, that doesn't really fit in with the Fallout setting" would suffice, but Fallout fans go out of there way to attack people who disagree with them. Hell, your friend Slicer is already proving me wrong. He didn't type a long post about how I am wrong and a moron and how I don't care about Fallout and why mother should've smothered me as a child.

I liked Tactics. It was a nice change of pace with the series and still fit in with the canon. Sure, it's not much of an RPG anymore, but its still fun. No, I didn't want more modern weapons included in the game. It was fine. I never supported the inclusion of more unnecessary weapons. There's 2-4 different pistols already, 5 more modern ones isn't needed. From what I remember, the Roshambo guy was incredibly disappointed with Tactics (I think the developers even went as far to put him in as an NPC). I can understand that. It wasn't traditional. The change was hard to get used to.
What do you see as a better engine for handling the Fallout franchise? Obviously, most of you don't want it using the same as Oblivion nor do you want a FPS or action/rpg. Perhaps something on the Neverwinter Nights 2 engine? Would that be something everyone could agree on? It's still isometric and tactical for the traditionalists and easier to perform actions for the new fans that come.

I'm also interested in seeing what Roshambo had to say. Do post the link.

 

[Tagaziel]

I used two latin phrases, because we use them regularly here, during lectures on different law studies, to mark two different ways of preparing arguments. I employed them simply because they are simple, useful and straight to the point.

First, let me point out WHY Fallout: Tactics was a crap over the canon:

Exhibit 1: The intro states that the Brotherhood was started by military personnel from an underground vault. WRONG! The Brotherhood was started by captain Roger Maxson, serial number 072389 of the US Army, shortly after the exodus from Mariposa Military base, after discovering the horrid human experimentation that took place there and in fear of a nuclear strike on the facility.

Exhibit 2: Zeppelins, air machines and working vehicles. UTTERLY WRONG! In the world of Fallout, there are very little, to none working vehicles, both land and air (you encountered only one during Fallout 1 and 2, with a brief mention of steam trucks in Fallout 1).
Furthermore, the oil worldwide has run out pretty much, and no military vehicles would have been employed, because of their serious fuel consumption. That's why the Power Armour was developed - to replace conventional vehicles with walking tanks.
Additionally, the design was plain wrong. M4 Sherman in 22**? That'd make that tank... let's see... over 200 years old, ergo, a load of junk. Also, the Hummer does not fit in with Fallout, simply because it's an 80s vehicle of OUR timeline. Of those all, well, only the Scout Car fits in. Barely.

Exhibit 3: Vault 0. EXCUSE ME? Not only doesn't it fit the existing data about the Safehouse project, it also is designed in a completely different way than Vault Tec installations are.

Exhibit 4: World War II weapons SELF-EVIDENT IDIOCY. As with the Sherman, they are 200+ years old, in essence, rusted pieces of junk.

Exhibit 5: Fascist Brotherhood of Steel HUH? The Brotherhood has always been an isolationist group, and the ones exiled were those who wanted it to open up to the outside world. Would they really become fascists, ruling the terrains with an (nomen omen) iron fist?

Exhibit 6: Talking furry deathclaws. WTF? Not only were their origins changed from mutated Jason's Chameleons to amalgam of different species, they also were covered with fur (!!!) and could talk. Deathclaws are lizards. Lizards do not have fur. And they do not talk. Also, their horns were drastically altered.

Exhibit 7: Power Armours ANTLERS? Sorry, but the first games estabilished how the T-51b looked like. What are these models doing here, with antlers?

And so on...

Now for Roshambo's rants:

Oh, before I start posting, you know why we're so hostile towards newbies, who don't bother to research Fallout? Because the boards have been around for three years now, and mailing lists date even further, back to 1997. If you had been arguing the same things over and over again, you'd get frustrated.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32846&start=20&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

This newstopic presents what Tim Cain said about Fallout and the upcomign Fallout 3.

Posts of note (I won't comment, as you are surely intelligent enough to draw your own conclusions):
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350171#350171
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350181#350181
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350207#350207
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350209#350209
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350234#350234
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350379#350379
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350402#350402
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350498#350498
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352619#352619

Next, singles released by Roshambo, the Talking Deathclaw (and Bastard Operator of Vault 13)
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352653#352653
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348220#348220
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348224#348224
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348536#348536
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=349037#349037
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=349352#349352
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352403#352403
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352465#352465
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=209991#209991

And that's just a few. Before you try to dismiss Roshambo's arguments, keep in mind, that he is a hardcore game developer, with truckloads of experience.

Addendum: What engine? Source. Pure and simple.

 

[Warbie]

Blimey.

 

[DeusExMachina]

You only used two? Oh. Must've been because I was doing latin homework when I read your post .

Yes, I had forgotten about the talking Death Claws. That bothered me to no end. To be honest, the Brotherhood of Steel did come off to me at least as fascistic. But, those other points, well you've done your research. I won't argue with that.

I know what you mean about arguing things over and over again. As dedicated you are to Fallout, I'm quite dedicated to the Metal Gear series and proving to people that "Big Boss does not = Snake" was a horror in the summer before MGS3 came out.

I'll read what Roshambo had to say, I remember reading some of his posts when I used to lurk the NMA forums. He seemed to know what he was talking about. Obviously I'm not going to immediately dismiss what he has to say, I'm interested in seeing what he has to say.

I'm also curious as to why Source?

 

[Tagaziel]

Source is extremely flexible it appears, and has also time and time again proved, that it can render run-down, deserted facilities (Nova Prospekt) extremely well, as well as wastelands (the random teleportation spot, where Lamarr decides to bite a crow), junk (the wrecked vehicles are priceless) as well as support an isometric view (shantytown mod). Also, it has proven itself in Vampire: Bloodlines, that it can support several RPG features (branching dialogues, character development, different weapon effects).

Oh, and I take back what I said. I admit, I overreacted and flamed you needlessly. You are a reasonable and intelligent lad, I have to say, after re-examining my priorit... your posts.

I'll cut the flaming, and may I suggest putting this thread back on it's path and discussing possible Fallout 3 designs (and their validity)?

 

[guchi]

I think I smell a locked thread

 

[mortiz]

Well , this is all getting a bit heated round here.
Is it my imagination , or did Mikael just draft in a fellow obsessive just in order to have a pop at mr Deus Ex ?

Well, RPG does infact stand for "role playing game" which I believe that all the Morrowind games have been (Oblivion included) . Just because a game doesnt have a turn-based interface or isometric 2D graphics , it doesnt preclude it from being an "RPG" in the truest sense of the term.

There is loyalty to a game's spirit/character and there is blind fanatacism to presentation and interface, it seems that a lot of Fallout's fanbase falls into the latter camp.

Now I dont qualify as a real Fallout fan (having only played Fallout 1 from beginning to end over 30+ hours) but I am keen to see more post-apocalyptic RPG or rpg games on my pc, and I especially want to see it in glorious, modern, first/third person 3D.
None of which is going to please the Fallout purists, but then again I suspect that the games industry will shaft them over and over till WW6.

In Half-Life and Half-Life 2 you "Role Play" Gordon Freeman, does that make Half-Life a role-playing game? In Oblivion you can customize your character and give him or her a name but at the end the day all of the character classes are forced down the same route. You can't really "role-play" the bad guy in Oblivion. Sure, you can go on killing spree's but apart from making the game harder when the guards chase you it doesn't affect the outcome of the game. In that respect Oblivion isn't that different from Half-Life. In Fallout for example you didn't even have to face off against the end-boss "The Master". If your character was good at science you could detonate a nuclear weapon in his vault. Even if you did decide to meet him you didn't have to fight him, if you'd created an intelligent talker instead of a hardened brute you could talk him into killing himself. Does Oblivion have anywhere near that much depth when it comes to utilizing character classes? That's the amount of depth I expect from a Role Playing Game.

Again, creating a sequel to a great game but then removing elements that made it great and replacing them with your own (sub-par, if Oblivion is anything to go by) ideas seems foolish to me. It'd be like The Terminator without any violence, bad language and gore. Oh yeah, they already did that, it was called Terminator 3. If you're going to create a sequel please stay true, not just in terms of spirit and atmosphere because those things can be lifted and put into a new I.P. but to the whole package. The license Bethesda holds allows them to utilize and incorporate everything that was in Fallout, not to take advantage of that seems insane.

 

[B_MAN]

it has to be Fallout 3

 

[Reginald]

I think it would be right awesome to have Fallout 3 on the Source engine kind of like Dark Messiah. Kicking enemies was too much fun. Now we can do it with guns!

 

[Tagaziel]

Fallout 3? No.

Fallout: 2077/Before the war/Anyting? Yes. This is the only instance in which I'd accept a Fallout FPS, if it emulated the life of a single soldier during the US-China war, who progresses slowly from boot camp to cannon fodder to trooper to Power Armour soldier, with two possible endings - either fighting in China or suppressing food riots in America.

 

[Claw]

I trust they'll make something worthy of the Fallout name.

How exactly do you expect that to turn out? You don't mind a drastic change of the setting, which certainly won't hurt the atmosphere at all. You probably won't hold changing such a trivial thing as perspective against Bethesda, and don't seem to be discouraged by the changes to the gameplay that are to be expected. Also, I guess you won't get upset about inconsistencies in the canon either, otherwise you wouldn't trust Bethesda. And by canon, I mean Tactics and POS. I ain't sure if anyone at Bethesda even knows (or cares) there were games before that and will even try to stick to their canon. Not to mention the developers of Fallout 2 took some liberties with the canon themselves.

I can't quite see how anyone knowing Bethesda could even expect Fallout 3 to have anything in common with Fallout but the name, but I am sure it'll be worthy of that name. In a completely unrelated way. You know, sorta like Farscape was worthy of the Star Trek title. Which it didn't have, but if it had had it, it would have been worthy of it.

 

[Warbie]

Time of the month? :upstare:

It's time to face the fact that there will never be another Fallout game in a similar vein to the original. It's not going to happen.

Either we can moan, rose-tinted glasses superglued on, or accept that the next installment is going to be quite different and hope that it's a good game.

 

[SAJ]

I was going to post a few scathing replies right about now , but thinking it through I just think there's little of value to be gained by debating Fallout3's "canon" in such heated circumstances.
Instead I want to put this to anyone who is against Bethsheda making F3 ;

Surely it is the best of possible outcomes for there to be a sequel to your most precious and beloved game , on an engine that will be fully modable ?
If they use (as is most likely) the same engine as Oblivion, it will ship with a comprehensive set of tools that will allow groups and individuals to get under thehood and change literally anything that they can think of into anything that they think it should be.
That includes; plot, dialogue, monsters, weapons, sound, models, quests, landscapes, and anything else that constitutes an "RPG" of anyones description. Hell, the only reason that there isnt a "isometric 3d perspective " mod for Oblivion is that no-one has (so far) thought it worthwhile to do so, just look at the huge range of mods for Oblivion for yourselves if you dont believe me. It is, in fact a huge win-win situation for everyone, the morlocks get their previous "canon" back, and the eloy (sp) get to see what Fallout3 should really be like.
There is one proviso, the fanatics will really have to get their collective fingers out and demonstrate the same energy in all aspects of modding , as they have done with whingeing about Bethsheda's shortcomings.


Cant resist this though..............

 

[Tagaziel]

SAJ, do I have to go over this again? Fallout's design was succesful. When it was ripped off for FOT and FO:BOS, it was unsuccesful. Conclusion?

You say "it's a win-win situation", I say "complete disregard for the fanbase". Fallout 3 a'la Oblivion would be like a car dealer handing you a rusty wreck with a mediocre engine and all the tools you need to repair it, for the full price of an expensive car.

And, it's not "canon", it's canon. Canon was set by Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. It also set the storyline, estabilished how Fallout's architecture and technology developed, political powers (NCR, Brotherhood of Steel, Followers of the Apocalypse), FICTIONAL weapons (the real-life ones in FO2 were just... wrong.) and the general wasteland theme. FOT and FO:BOS diverged from this and they failed.

And what's an RPG? Game which focuses on storyline and character development, on immersion and consequences of your choices. Fallout has all. Morrowind and Oblivion have at best two.

Storyline? Puh-lease, save the world from evil gods/daemons/whatever. It's white-and-black, and yoy are the white. Fallout, on the other side... the final choice in front of the Master was morally ambigous - either we join the Master, and potentially lead mankind into a bright future, or we kill him and risk the final fall of civilization.
Character development? Seems like all cash went into voiceovers and a stupid "speeh" game, instead of work on the genre. Fallout... to mention a few: Overseer, Aradesh, Seth, Tandi, Killian Darkwater, Cabbot, Nicole (Followers) and Richard "Grey" Moreau.
Immersion? Yeah, a vast central province of the Empire is 16 square miles large. Laughable. Fallout... well, in Fallout you absolutely FEEL the game, it's an experience, not just a computer entertainment device.
Consequences? I have yet to see a consequence of my actions in TES III and IV. In Fallout... each choice had impact - some were minor, some were major. The consequences of your actions were evident during the endgame, when you see, what effect your deeds had on each community.

Of course, there are some, who want Fallout to be dumbed down by Bethesda to version comprehensible for their peanut sized brains. Devoid of all, what made it great - storyline, world, style, SPECIAL, setting, retrofuturism... replaced by a vast, 20x20 mile wasteland with OMFGSHINY graphics, hairy deathclaws and real-life weapons. And no, it's not Fallout.

Also, may I remind you, that Eloys were a brainless bunch of spoiled children unable to think for themselves. So much for a metaphor.

PS: I found a nice saying, by Vidken (RPG Codex), which pretty much sums up Oblivion:

"It's really more of a case of lots of people honestly believing Oblivion is important. After all, Oblivion shows us that it's possible to implement teh shinies and zero IQ gameplay into a game that contains only a pale representation of the wrong features of previous games that were labeled RPGs: Swords and stats!

As a bonus, we get such INNUVASHINS as GPS waypoints, lizards with tits, and dynamic mudcrab conversations."

 

[Cerpin]

While it's quite a while since I played Fallout, I remember I found the interface and some of the mechanics pretty clunky and dated.

Still, I could care less about that. The only things that matter to me are the story, characters, and setting, as well as the sublets that fall within these areas. Bethesda could make it in whatever perspective for all I care, with the flashiest graphics they possibly could come up with, and it wouldn't bother me at all as long as they nail the big three.

 

[Tagaziel]

Which I'm not really sure they can, as Oblivion has shown how rat-ass logic they use.

- Hmmm... I'm an Emperor of an Empire that's falling apart and some people want me dead. What do I do in event of an emergency? Hmmm... let's see... oh, great! We'll dig a tunnel under the palace in the detention dungeons, with an entrance in a homicidal prisoner's cell! And whent the need for evacuation arises, I won't take elite fighters with me, but low-level noobs, so that I can get easily killed!

- Uh, sir, isn't it better to just teleport somewhere safe? The mages do it all the time.

- Shut up.

 

[Warbie]

It's easy to dig holes in any video game plot/story. Take Oblivion for what it is, or don't. The old Fallout is dead, though, and that's that.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

I loved Fallout 1 and 2, but some of you are going to have to deal with the fact that the game is going to be changed :| So you should all just calm down and wait it out. See what happens. If it sucks, just pretend it never existed or like SAJ said hope someone mods it for the fanbase.

 

[Tagaziel]

Someone messed their priorities up. It's not our role to make the game, it's Bethesda's role to cater to Fallout's fanbase, which was there ever since the first part was released.

Also, Fallout is not dead. Not by a long shot, as long as the fanbase and people who appreciate RPGs requiring thought survive, Fallout will live.

And to all of you saying "Get over it, it's gonna be changed", how would you react, if Valve had financial problems, sold the Half-Life licence to id Software and Half-Life: Episode Three would feature a Pamelyx Vancerson, Barney was a gay lover of Eli, who in turn would be a black gangsta with chains and stuff and Judith mysteriously changed her sex and became Julian? And the Combine was replaced by yellow aliens with rayguns from Mars? Huh? I can imagine how you would go batshit insane. This is exactly what happened to Fallout, with FOT and FO:BOS. If Bethesda wants our support, then they should do it the hard way, like Fallout 1 was done (of course with a new engine, but wrapped around SPECIAL), with dialogue trees, not some stupid minigames or wiki-style convos, immersive world, intricate plot and retrofuture stylization. Of course, that would require them to aim higher than the lowest common denominer.

In short, the burden of proof is on Bethesda. You all waited eagerly for Half-Life 2 to arrive and live up to it's predecessor. We want this too, and we have been waiting for eight years now.

 

[Tropico]

Mikael Grizzly
i want to have your babies.
Spot on with the answer back you up 100%.
We want a good Fallout game.