Black Mesa: Source Media Update

Looks a bit much like Nightwatch, to be honest, but that's (a) absolutely not a bad thing, and (b) hardly unsurprising, since they're both visual updates to Black Mesa. ;)
 
Cargo Cult said:
Looks a bit much like Nightwatch, to be honest, but that's (a) absolutely not a bad thing, and (b) hardly unsurprising, since they're both visual updates to Black Mesa. ;)
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Was Nightwatch released!? I haven't heard about it for quite some time
 
It's still in development, progress is going very slow though due to loss of team members IIRC.
 
Took a look at it again. Looks more like an international shopping centre than a private research facility. All they need now is a 6 foot tall stand, saying:

YOU ARE HERE
 
I also think it looks good but not like black mesa.
Folks are right that it's a mall or an airport. Not a stop on an industrial tram line.

The individual trams have room for maybe twelve people, maximum. So do those twenty-four people (on the trams going both ways) really need three personal schedule screens each? Would there be enough foot traffic to require a space larger than an urban subway station, or than most airports?

The glowing neon signs are the big thing. But it's also really dark. The combo makes it look like the combine took over the base or something. :p
 
Damn your mod team, this looks so good I dont know how im going to wait to play this.
 
Loke said:
It's still in development, progress is going very slow though due to loss of team members IIRC.
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A lot of Nightwatch people wandered off more because, since the release of Half-Life 2, it simply wasn't going anywhere - plans for simply and quickly upgrading content to Source standards where appropriate were replaced with hugely ambitious plans for, well, replacing everything from scratch. Again.

I know this because I was the lead texture artist, one of the main mappers and one of the original instigators of the mod. The word 'ambitious' was taken to an extreme, and unfortunately I see echoes of NW in BM:S - there's some hugely talented people on the project, and some amazing screenshots coming out, but I do hope they don't fall into the trap of replacing everything just because they can.

Ideally, they should get a rough, playable version of BM:S up and running internally as soon as possible, and then start performing art passes and gameplay tweaking on that until it's declared ready for release. Methodologies used for producing single maps really don't scale up to big projects so well. Starting from (a) and attempting to produce final-quality content right the way up to (z) in one pass really doesn't work, in that you'll get to (f), declare that (a) is substandard, and start again.

Even if it's just rubbish, badly scaled orange block-maps, that first continuous playthrough will be an awesome morale boost. They should go for it, and not forget that releasing something is the aim of the project, not just producing pretty screenshots!
 
Thats actually quite accurate to our current plans CC, we're getting our alpha builds to a bigger content (more playable) state where we can test gameplay and feel of the materials ingame, if they need work from then we can get the key things out of the way then worry about going back to finishing up some artwork.
 
I think it really looks like black mesa,well cuz that level was just a big tunnel of concrete and imo it looks like it,but we should wait for the rest of black mesa to see,also the whole hav diferent styles isnt?for example the office complex levels and others parts like the on a rail
 
BMS looks better and better with every update.

For me its totaly Half-Life. You guys brought new textures and models together with the original HL style. I just love it, and I dont think anyone could have done this better.
By now its my Most Wanted mod.
 
Samon said:
Shut up.
If someone wants to voice their opinion, let them.
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Yeah! If someone wants to complain about a mod who ruined a great atmosphere that HL had, let them!
 
jheaddon said:
And if people don't want to be constructive then feel free..
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We're not flaming you. We're not bashing your mod. We're not throwing it off the cliff.

It comes natural for human kind. They see an opportunity to flame, they do. For the sake of popularity and to appear quickfire.

But you've changed the atmosphere of Half-Life. All you needed to do is remake Inbound inch by inch and add some detail like volumetric lighting, a few technicians to look after equipment, a catwalk here and there... Not add absolutely irrelevant objects like escalators, a huge stand with a train schedule, scientists wandering on catwalks above you (you're late that morning; most of scientists took their working places)... You made it look like Theme Mall, or Theme Airport.
 
iMMuNiTy said:
But you've changed the atmosphere of Half-Life. All you needed to do is remake Inbound inch by inch.
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Then we'd have square tunnels and bottomless pits. But we wouldn't be so stupid to do that in Source, afterall, we're using Source so let's spruce it up a little. Let's make that tunnel a little more high poly, let's remove the bottomless pits and replace them with machinery.
Hey? How did those scientists get into those labs that are 20 metres in the air and don't have any doors? That seems silly, we'd better fix that. Let's throw in some escalators and ladders and rails to show how they move around the facility. How did they all get there anyway? Surely they couldn't have all fit on the 1 tram. We'd better address that issue aswell.

...hmm, now that I think about it, this isn't remaking Inbound inch by inch at all. Infact, doing so would look stupid and we'd be letting all that Source goodness go to waste.
We're re-envisioning Inbound and how it was meant to be. You can't honestly expect us to keep the EXACT same details as the original Inbound do you?
iMMuNiTy said:
add some detail like volumetric lighting, a few technicians to look after equipment, a catwalk here and there...
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I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
 
Orcone101 said:
Then we'd have square tunnels and bottomless pits. But we wouldn't be so stupid to do that in Source, afterall, we're using Source so let's spruce it up a little. Let's make that tunnel a little more high poly, let's remove the bottomless pits and replace them with machinery.

I lack words to describe your stupidity. Read that sentence again, WHOLE OF IT. I didn't say "mod sux, make hl1 with hi res tex tis all rofl", I said "Remake Half-Life 1 in Source engine inch to inch, with higher polys, higher resolution textures, and more environment detail that would be relevant to the atmosphere".

Hey? How did those scientists get into those labs that are 20 metres in the air and don't have any doors? That seems silly, we'd better fix that. Let's throw in some escalators and ladders and rails to show how they move around the facility. How did they all get there anyway? Surely they couldn't have all fit on the 1 tram. We'd better address that issue aswell.

Again, I am suprised by your incompetence. Ever heard of a great invention, called an elevator? That's like flying with a helicopter by a skyscraper and see people working behind the glass, and then say "OMFG HOW DID THEY GET THERE, HAX". I really don't think a research facility would spend money on escalators rather to invest them into experiments.

...hmm, now that I think about it, this isn't remaking Inbound inch by inch at all. Infact, doing so would look stupid and we'd be letting all that Source goodness go to waste.

So why not give the Gravity Gun? Why not introduce Kleiner? Hell, why not put Combine into it? You're letting all that HL goodness go to waste.

We're re-envisioning Inbound and how it was meant to be. You can't honestly expect us to keep the EXACT same details as the original Inbound do you?

No. You're an idiot.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
Wake up. I know it's hard, but next time don't post when you're in a hang over.
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6char.
 
Jesus, chill out fellas!

I think its looking absolutely stunning, you guys are doing a great job keep up the good word:E

For the people who are thinking this mod is ruining the whole atmosphere of the original HL simply dont play it when its released, get your own mod team together and recreate Black Mesa how you think it should be :p

To the BM:S team, have you guys gotten any praise/criticism from Valve? Have they had any input on this mod?
 
@iMMuNiTy: you say you are not flaming and not bashing the mod but thats exactly what you are doing! I think if Vavle would do a remake of HL it would look different to.
This is how the BM:S team is doing it and this is how they want BM te look on source. If you dont like it you dont have to play it, start your own HL remake project maybe?

Please stop the flaming, the complaining and all the other bad stuff, this has nothing to do with constructive criticism anymore. You accomplish nothing this way!
 
Keep it civil, or I'm going to have to start getting sarcastic.
 
Betelgeuze said:
@iMMuNiTy: you say you are not flaming and not bashing the mod but thats exactly what you are doing! I think if Vavle would do a remake of HL it would look different to.
This is how the BM:S team is doing it and this is how they want BM te look on source. If you dont like it you dont have to play it, start your own HL remake project maybe?

Please stop the flaming, the complaining and all the other bad stuff, this has nothing to do with constructive criticism anymore. You accomplish nothing this way!
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I wasn't flaming and/or bashing it until Orcone has ticked me off with his ignorance.

Naturally a remake is a remake, it is bound to look different, but it doesn't mean it must look different like day and night. If BM:S team sees Inbound on Source that way, let it be so. Then yes, I won't play it. I won't lose much. I'll just play some Theme Park.

And sorry, Pi Mu Rho. My fault.
 
Lets keep the flaming to a minimum, everyone.


Orcone101 said:
We're re-envisioning Inbound and how it was meant to be.
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I wouldn't say your re-envisioning is how Inbound was meant to be, but hey.
 
Samon said:
I wouldn't say your re-envisioning is how Inbound was meant to be, but hey.
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That is entirely your opinion.
Immunity, you gave a suggestion and I gave a response. I'm sorry if you feel my answer was ignorant. I don't believe it was.
 
Thats a little strong to say Orcone.

Immunity - You have to see that we could have remade Inbound for the Source engine with ease, new textures, scripted sequences and whatnot, but it wouldn't look realistic, or play well.

We need the game to flow well, we can't make a simple inbound section (or any chapter infact) and then transition in to a fully detailed area.

It would be silly of us to think that we are doing it how Valve had invisioned it themselves, we don't know what they were thinking. But inorder for Inbound to match the rest of our mod, we've had to improvise, in order for a remake to have a good level of quality about it, you have to adapt your designs so that the "new" area is not only feasible, but it makes the most of the engine.

The above is not a bash in the slightest, just wanted you to know that we've tried to keep it true to the original, but its hard when the original was so bare and basic, a brush to brush remake would just look ridiculous on the Source engine.
 
It seems I have been misunderstood. By saying "add more detail" I do not mean "add more polys, tune this and that, use hi-res textures...". By saying that you should add more details I ment add some environment details. And not by adding escalators and tram timetable stands. Add something more industrial, something that would fit a research facility. Stacked up (unused?) items, forklifts riding around as busy as bees, a few technicians to mantain correct traffic.

I don't know about others, but I, for one, have played and still play Half-Life 1 not for its graphics, realism, or even gameplay for that matter. But for the atmosphere, the immersiveness, the story. I really couldn't imagine myself on my way to the lab in such surroundings, except for men in white coats.

Awesome effort. It really is. But it doesn't look like Black Mesa Research Facility. It just doesn't.
 
Immunity, you misunderstand that this is the personnel living area of Inbound, the research bays further down the line will look just like you described, worn, well used and have actual research stuff in it.

The original Inbound had a station for transfers between trams, ours is just made to look sort of realistic, unlike the HL1 one which was two hovering tram lines with a platform over a bottomless pit.
 
Think of it as.."adding the missing details" with what we think is appropriate :)
 
To start, I would say you guys are doing a fantastic job on BM: Source. I do have some suggestions, though. First, you can't say that "adding more detail" makes it seem like HL, sometimes you can add the wrong detail as well. For instance, the escalators are a little out of place IMO. Elevators would be more appropriate in this case. If you wish to transform any given environment in HL, it seems to me you have to "add more detail" within the guidelines of the original levels themselves. However, the kiosk area in itself is a much welcome change.

Don't get me wrong, innovation is a good thing, but trying to "reinvent" some HL environs when you should just be "remaking" them I think would work better. Now, the Surface tension screenshots are incredible, they are more true to the HL atmosphere. The shots of BM seem "condensed." I want the BM Inbound to be big, sprawling. And those bottomless pits you talked about?, it added to the atmosphere, it made me think "how far down does this go?" Again, don't misconstrude what I am saying. The dedication the BM: Source team has for recreating HL is astounding and has produced amazing results so far. And posting these screenshots is a good thing. It gets you feedback. If alot of people have the same criticisms, take them into consideration. It's only for the best.
 
I think it looks brilliant. While some say that it doesn't look like it captures the atmosphere of Black Mesa, I think it does. I actually like the way this looks more than the beginning of c0a0, where there were only two or three rails going along (despite the area being huge, vertically), and was pretty bland. I like all the little details you guys have put in; the chairs, the time on the clock, the transfer rail to the area 9 transit hub, what looks like a service platform underneath one of the rails in the first shot (that's a nice touch)...good stuff. Are you guys actually going to try and attempt to map Inbound based off of the actual train lines?

Some comments I saw that need addressing:

iMMuNiTy said:
Orcone101 said:
Then we'd have square tunnels and bottomless pits. But we wouldn't be so stupid to do that in Source, afterall, we're using Source so let's spruce it up a little. Let's make that tunnel a little more high poly, let's remove the bottomless pits and replace them with machinery.
Click to expand...
Again, I am suprised by your incompetence. Ever heard of a great invention, called an elevator? That's like flying with a helicopter by a skyscraper and see people working behind the glass, and then say "OMFG HOW DID THEY GET THERE, HAX". I really don't think a research facility would spend money on escalators rather to invest them into experiments.
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I believe the area Orcone is referring to is the same map I was speaking of; at the very beginning of the tram line there are two offices that have no doors leading into them, or even windows protecting the scientists from falling right out! The point about elevators is moot because the offices have no way in, save for catching the topmost rail and leaping about 15-20ft. into them.
Also, escalators are by no means expensive, and compared to the research and construction going on there, they would not even be a pixel-sized dot on BMRF's development budget.

To people who're saying it looks like a "theme airport" or "theme mall (what malls are you people going to that have trams?)," what else should transit stations look like? Have you ever ridden on a subway or lightrail? Ever been in a metro station? The idea is perfect. Consider the enormity of Black Mesa, a research facility taking up a sizeable portion of New Mexico desert. Then consider the manpower that this installation must have; scientists, security guards, administrative personnel, etc., all heading to different areas. Different areas which are connected by four main lines, with no less than fourteen stops across them. Many passengers need to make connections across different lines to reach their intended destination. Add to that the fact that the trains will be arriving at different times, and that not everyone in the facility starts work at the same time Freeman and the others down in sector C start (invalidating the argument that scientists shouldn't be milling around the catwalks because Freeman was late and they should be at their posts), and you'll see the need for schedules. After all, who expects bumbling scientists to remember to take the red line from sector 3 dormitories at 8:15, transfer to the green line in main entrance at 8:20, stop at the area 7 recreational facilities at 8:22 and catch the connecting train from yellow line to sector F lambda complex at 8:25? Oh and speaking of un-BMRF atmosphere and places like area 7...ARCADE and FOOD COURT (from Blue Shift).

Anyway, long post short, great job, BMS team. Great job.
 
Ah Darkside, as much as I disagree with you, its good to see you back.

/Kicks Darkside into the speculation forums.
 
Screw it. I'm wasting my time.

Fine. One less player for your mod.
 
I thought you didn't want to play it in the first place
 
Looks like people are a little bit hung up in This picture..
There are three more of Inbound..
 
lol as if they care :p

I still think its perfect like this, its a good evolution.
 
entity said:
I thought you didn't want to play it in the first place
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You thought wrong.

Betelgeuze said:
lolz as if they care bla bla bla yadda yadda yadda
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They don't, and that's exactly the reason I see this mod as a failure.
 
well we can't expect everyone to be happy with the mod..so we'll just have to go with the majority ;)

after all, everybody has their own different opinion on how black mesa should look.
 
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