Bush / Kerry debate

[scatr99]

In contrast, for the life of me I cannot see how you feel that way. America sees George Bush as a man who loves America to the death and wont let anything harm it. He is willing to take the battle to the offensive and strike the enemy before they can do the same to us. They see him as a man who is fed up with the politics in the UN and is finally looking out for world peace. Take it for what you will, but that is how it is.

So let's see, he loves us sooooo much he decided to send us into conflict with a country we had no buisiness with. Keep in mind there were no ties with 9/11 to Iraq and no WMD's found there.

 

[Ikerous]

I dont care what your opinion is.
Just having one makes you smarter than fifty percent of americans.
(i.e your not just voting for bush cuz kerry looks funny..)

 

[Stereo]

I'm an intelligent realist against bible thumpers, so I guess I'm in the same boat.

And Jesus still loves you none the less. But God and "bible thumpers" as you so put it, is not the disscussion here.

 

[f|uke]

Why did Bush keep going back to accusing Kerry of not supporting our troops in Iraq. Even after Kerry repeatedly said that he supported the troops.

If theres anything the GOP and Fox News has taught us, its that if you say something enough times, no matter how ridiculous, it becomes true.

 

[scatr99]

Yeah, Kerry really showed his support when he accused all the American soldiers of being war criminals when returning home from Vietnam. He also showed it by voting for the 87 billion dollar bill to help provide equipment for them.

He accused all Americans of being war criminals? I think not.

 

[mashed]

International relations, terrorism, a war which killed thousands, and nuclear proliferation are just background noise to you?

List a war, terrorist act, or nuclear attack that has killed 40 million Americans.

 

[seinfeldrules]

So let's see, he loves us sooooo much he decided to send us into conflict with a country we had no buisiness with. Keep in mind there were no ties with 9/11 to Iraq and no WMD's found there.

But the intelligence he saw said there was. This was already discussed in this very thread.

 

[Stereo]

If theres anything the GOP and Fox News has taught us, its that if you say something enough times, no matter how ridiculous, it becomes true.

HAHAHAHAHA.

 

[TaiFong]

Soooo, anyway, Bush got his shit wrecked.

 

[scatr99]

But the intelligence he saw said there was. This was already discussed in this very thread.

What intelligence? How can you say something is there when there is no proof? Obviously there couldn't be proof if none were found. He misled the American people with hopes of stopping a regime that was not a threat to the United States.

 

[Stereo]

This debate really solves nothing. Bushies still for Bush, and Kerries still for Kerry.

 

[Korgoth]

Well guys lets be fair and bring up the point that bush rushed our troops to war without the body armor they needed in the first place. And have you see the 87 billion supplemental, do you know exactly how it was going to be appropriated, exactly, you don't. So before your so quick to judge on that why don't you look at exactly how that 87 was going to be appropriated, and why don't you fact check, our troops were rushed into battle without proper armor in the first place.

I'd also like to add that according to abc fact check, the 100,000 trained iraqi's that bush touted so proudly is actually more like 50,000 so not much progress as he'd like you think.

Also, bush had the chance, then why didn't he offer rebuttals to the north korean nuclear weapons under his administrations watch claim, and the back door draft claims. Exactly, he didn't have a leg to stand on so he left them alone.

In closing bush's laugh scares, kerry's smile freaks me out. I'm still supporting my candidate, and no one won this debate, anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. The idea of the debate is not to create a winner but to pit both candidates agendas against one another at the same time so that the american people can see where they stand. Both candidates did this very well, it just all comes down to whos opinions you support.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Soooo, anyway, Bush got his shit wrecked.

I believe Bush won the debate. But it was a very dry, dry debate, I'm hoping the town hall one will provide for better interaction from both candidates.

 

[Neutrino]

List a war, terrorist act, or nuclear attack that has killed 40 million Americans.

I don't mean to be offensive so take this as you will, but that kind of opinion completely appalls me.

 

[f|uke]

This debate really solves nothing. Bushies still for Bush, and Kerries still for Kerry.

w3rd. Its really for the undecided/polls to decide who won.

 

[scatr99]

In closing bush's laugh scares, kerry's smile freaks me out. I'm still supporting my candidate, and no one won this debate, anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. The idea of the debate is not to create a winner but to pit both candidates agendas against one another at the same time so that the american people can see where they stand. Both candidates did this very well, it just all comes down to whos opinions you support.

To say no one won is ignorant. Watch the debate from a neutral point of view and it is as clear as day.

 

[seinfeldrules]

He accused all Americans of being war criminals? I think not.

There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

......

 

[Stereo]

I believe Bush won the debate. But it was a very dry, dry debate, I'm hoping the town hall one will provide for better interaction from both candidates.

And other people, myself inculded, think Kerry won. But then again, we are all posters on the Halflife2.net boards. eh.

 

[scatr99]

......

I didn't say the atrocities didn't take place. I said not all Americans were guilty. I think I even emphasized the all...

 

[Korgoth]

Then whats your point seinfeld, it seems as kerry took just as much blame for what went on as everyone else. Not like he pushed off on all the other soldiers as you'd like us to believe.

If crimes were commited and kerry was honest about it, what does that show. Honesty, character... Yup. A willingness to admit when you've done wrong.

 

[Silent_night]

Kerry stepped right on top of bush !

 

[Neutrino]

For those of you claiming that Bush won, apparently not everyone agrees with you:

Question of the day at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733/

Who won the debate?

Kerry: 72%
Bush: 28%

 

[seinfeldrules]

Then whats your point seinfeld, it seems as kerry took just as much blame for what went on as everyone else. Not like he pushed off on all the other soldiers as you'd like us to believe.

Did he? Then why would he rat out his fellow soldiers for doing some things that he had done. He shifted the blame from himself to the whole army. Most Vietnam Veterans did not commit these crimes as Kerry leads you to believe and many are sickened by it. I can guarantee you one thing, Kerry wont win the military vote.

 

[Stereo]

I am going to play Tribes:Vengance. Have fun with all this.

 

[scatr99]

For those of you claiming that Bush won, apparently not everyone agrees with you:

Question of the day at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733/

Who won the debate?

Kerry: 72%
Bush: 28%

Like I said, even if you support Bush, you should recognize a loss when you see one.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I'd prefer to wait for some other, more offical poll results Neutrino.

 

[Korgoth]

ugh, he didn't say all soldiers, and he blames himself as well, just as the quote you posted says. Your losing ground here.

Edit: ABC polls are saying almos the same...

 

[ShadowFox]

I find people who are preoccupied with another person's political priorities to be... an idiot.

Well I don't know why you stated what you did if you didn't want any responses. Seems to defeat the point of a message board, fellow idiot.

 

[scatr99]

Did he? Then why would he rat out his fellow soldiers for doing some things that he had done. He shifted the blame from himself to the whole army. Most Vietnam Veterans did not commit these crimes as Kerry leads you to believe and many are sickened by it. I can guarantee you one thing, Kerry wont win the military vote.

Shifted the blame???? YOU just posted a quote that had him admitting to participating. Grow up child.

 

[Neutrino]

He shifted the blame from himself to the whole army.

Hardly.

I committed the same kind of atrocities

And war crimes were commited during Vietnam. How is admiting the truth of what happened a bad thing?

I'd prefer to wait for some other, more offical poll results Neutrino.

I didn't mean it was official. I only put that up there for the people claiming it was obvious Bush won. If a poll is slanted that much one way then it is clear that it is not obvious in the least that Bush one. That was my only point.

 

[seinfeldrules]

as thousands of other soldiers have committed

Yeah, hes surely not shifting the blame and responsibility.

 

[ShadowFox]

Like I said, even if you support Bush, you should recognize a loss when you see one.

I wonder what a poll like that would be on a Fox News website.

 

[seinfeldrules]

And war crimes were commited during Vietnam. How is admiting the truth of what happened a bad thing?

Because he said that thousands of other soldiers commited these same atrocities. Is that the thing you want to be saying while these troops are still fighting on the ground in Vietnam? He may have commited them, but dont blame the other soldiers for making his mistakes.

 

[scatr99]

Yeah, hes surely not shifting the blame and responsibility.

For christs sakes, all he is saying is that there was widespread corruption. How is that "shifting" blame?

shift ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shft)
v. shift·ed, shift·ing, shifts
v. tr.

To move or transfer from one place or position to another.

 

[seinfeldrules]

If he wanted the buck to stop at him he says " I commited war crimes in Vietnam" not "Me and thousands of other troops commited these crimes in Vietnam". If I was serving honorably in Vietnam at the time then I would rightfully be disgusted by this behavior.

 

[Neutrino]

Because he said that thousands of other soldiers commited these same atrocities. Is that the thing you want to be saying while these troops are still fighting on the ground in Vietnam? He may have commited them, but dont blame the other soldiers for making his mistakes.

He was hardly accusing all soldiers. He was accusing many yes, but hardly all of them. If you were a soldier that hadn't comitted a crime such as that than obviously he was not referring to you. Again, he was not accusing "all" soldiers no matter how you twist his words.

As for the statement, were you in Vietnam? Did you see what went on and what happened there? Were you witness to any of this? No.

But Kerry was, so I'd say he probably has a pretty good idea of what went on.

 

[seinfeldrules]

As for the statement, were you in Vietnam? Did you see what went on and what happened there? Were you witness to any of this? No.

No, but many others were and did witness what Kerry claims to have seen. You may have seen their ads on TV occasionally.

 

[scatr99]

If he wanted the buck to stop at him he says " I commited war crimes in Vietnam" not "Me and thousands of other troops commited these crimes in Vietnam". If I was serving honorably in Vietnam at the time then I would rightfully be disgusted by this behavior.

No, you would be pissed off at the soldiers who were comitting these acts. But judging from your integrity I wonder which kind of soldier you would be...

 

[hasan]

If he wanted the buck to stop at him he says " I commited war crimes in Vietnam" not "Me and thousands of other troops commited these crimes in Vietnam". If I was serving honorably in Vietnam at the time then I would rightfully be disgusted by this behavior.

I would be disgusted if one tried to cover up for war crimes just because it was his country that committed them.
Truth doesn't know "my country" or "my troops". You should say the truth even if agaisnt yourself, your family, anything.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Taken from actual veterans.

"We established an American presence in most cases by showing the flag and firing at sampans and villages along the banks. Those were our instructions, but they seemed so out of line that we finally began to go ashore, against our orders, and investigate the villages that were supposed to be our targets. We discovered we were butchering a lot of innocent people, and morale became so low among the officers on those 'swift boats' that we were called back to Saigon for special instructions from Gen. Abrams. He told us we were doing the right thing. He said our efforts would help win the war in the long run. That's when I realized I could never remain silent about the realities of the war in Vietnam."

What John Kerry told the Washington Star was a lie.

Contrary to Kerry's claim, our consistent policy was to take every precaution to avoid harming civilians. On many occasions we did this at the cost of suffering additional casualties ourselves. We have interviewed hundreds of veterans who served on the Swift Boats or supported them, and there is simply no justification for Kerry's statement. Several members of our organization addressed the issue of atrocities during our May 4 press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.