Bush: The worst president ever?

[Foxtrot]

what people? iraqis?

I think he was reffering to the people that killed the Iraqis.

 

[No Limit]

Let me put those 2 sentences together for you then. "Bush may have lied, bu I do not think he did."

I know you don't think he did, that is my point.

What isn't convincing about your evidence or what you posted is it is all based off of people guessing what bush did or some guy that got fired and is now releasing top secret information(if it were true...that is a crime).

Top secret information that shows he lied. How is saying releasing that information is illegal refute the fact he lied? So again, you just admitted the infomation showing he lied is accurate but you say he didn't lie.

I nee numbers and quotes from the people themselves, not sites that say we believe bush did this and that is why he lied.

You ignored everything that has been posted. What information do you want that isn't from a site? Are you not aware you are on the internet? Everything posted has facts to back it up.

The downing street memo is too debatable to use as evidence. It doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the timeline of events and is therefore thought of as a fake. On top of that why go to the U.N. if you decided to use military action before going to the U.N.? The memo doesn't hold up as credible evidence.

The memo talks about why they went to the UN. Blair, because of political pressure wanted to ack alone only if going to the UN failed. This is why a second resolution authorizing force never passed. The UN never approved military action. Also, please show me where the timeline doesn't fit, back things up when you say them.

1) It was written by a third party

Yes, but Blair saw this and then authorized it to be shown to others; meaning he didn't dispute anything it said meaning the fact it was written by a third party has nothing to do with it.

2) The word fix has several meaning

Please, I heard this thrown around on free republic a bit. Are you really going to try and argue this?

3) The third party does not attribute the word fix to a direct quote from either Bush or Blair

Hence why it is called a summary. Also, that doesn't refute the fact Bush was set on attacking Iraq before he ever asked congress; can you say impeachable offense?

4) Why has none of the people that seem so concerned regarding the memo asked the person that wrote it what it means

Because they know what it means, I really don't know how you are trying to spin this to say you don't understand it. I don't think even the very best lawyer could argue that it meant Bush was going to avoid war at all costs.

5) Regime change in Iraq has been "Official US POLICY Since 1998).

Ok, this has little to do with anything. Clinton did want regime change but he did it by giving financial support to political parties in Iraq opposing Saddam. Regime change by war didn't become US policy until Jan 2001 when Bush came in to office.

Iraq's WMDs are much like the OJ Trial, we have all the evidence we need but people claim this and that and soon the jury acquits. We have plenty of evidence for Iraq having WMDs. They have the means, resources, technology and time. They keep moving them around. Heck they have labs with everything needed to make them quickly, all set up and designed for specifically that, but alas it isn't a hardcore WMD is it? Nearby countries who are far too obsolete have WMDs, where did they get those?

Again, you are grasping at straws; it has nothing to do. This is as black and white as you can get. The simple fact is Bush manipulated intelligence to make a stronger case for war; the hour long video I posted does a great job showing this so watch it when you get a chance.

Bush didn't lie, lying is a very serious offense and I see no impeachment or investigation by officials going on. Give it up, lying is just a word you are using to try and make his being mislead look worse. Aside from that there we plenty of other good reasons to go to war other than WMDS.

Well duh there is no investigation; do you not remember who the government is ran by? The democrats have no power in this only people like you that don't mind a lie can impeach him.

And again you are saying he didn't lie when the undisputable evidance is right there that says he did. You did not refute any of this evidance. Start with this if the memo is too complicated for you:

http://www.alternet.org/story/16274

Bush lied and I'm glad you agree he should be impeached for it.

 

[No Limit]

Here is an explaination of what a minute is:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/31/65224/7692

Minutes are the real-time record of a meeting, whose veracity is checked by all members attending, and are given to all members attending, and must be kept by all attending. Minutes are the true and accurate testimony of what transpired.

There goes your 3rd person argument.

 

[Foxtrot]

Here is an explaination of what a minute is:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/31/65224/7692



There goes your 3rd person argument.

I stopped reading after this gem of intelligence

Top secret information that shows he lied. How is saying releasing that information is illegal refute the fact he lied? So again, you just admitted the infomation showing he lied is accurate but you say he didn't lie.

If you can't even comprehend what he is writing, why not just give up?

 

[iyfyoufhl]

I think he was reffering to the people that killed the Iraqis.

well, i don't think it's appropriet to call them crazy

 

[Foxtrot]

well, i don't think it's appropriet to call them crazy

Why? They probably were.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Well in order to shoot an unarmed person there has to be something wrong with you.

No Limit..you are not understanding what I am saying. I am responding to your evidence, not saying you are posting any. The evidence you are posting has gone under too much fire to be considered credible.

The government is split up, bush does not control all of it. When clinton lied to America there was an investigation, how come bush hasn't gone to trial? The "evidence" of him "lying" is false and does not hold up.

 

[No Limit]

I stopped reading after this gem of intelligence

Are you insane? Do you not understand your Republican tactic of disputing a source when the information in that source is 100% accurate isn't going to fly here. Go somewhere else with the bullshit. The following is still 100% accurate:

Minutes are the real-time record of a meeting, whose veracity is checked by all members attending, and are given to all members attending, and must be kept by all attending. Minutes are the true and accurate testimony of what transpired.

If you can't even comprehend what he is writing, why not just give up?

You are starting to get on my nerves; what did I not comprehend?

He said that the infomation I posted is based on top secret information. Since it is illegal to release top secret information he tried to discredit that information that way.

 

[Foxtrot]

Are you insane? Do you not understand your Republican tactic of disputing a source when the information in that source is 100% accurate isn't going to fly here. Go somewhere else with the bullshit. The following is still 100% accurate:



You are starting to get on my nerves; what did I not comprehend?

He said that the infomation I posted is based on top secret information. Since it is illegal to release top secret information he tried to discredit that information that way.

Just because you think the information is 100% accurate doesn't mean everyone will.

 

[Glirk Dient]

This debate has boiled down to a pretty mute level and is only going in circles. I have stated my opinion that bush isn't the worst president, granted not close to the best, but worst is going too far. If anyone can come up with something new then please post, arguing about credibility is pretty boring.

 

[Foxtrot]

This debate has boiled down to a pretty mute level and is only going in circles. I have stated my opinion that bush isn't the worst president, granted not close to the best, but worst is going too far. If anyone can come up with something new then please post, arguing about credibility is pretty boring.

Welcome to the politics forum
This whole forum could be summed up in one sentence.

 

[No Limit]

Just because you think the information is 100% accurate doesn't mean everyone will.

have you completely lost it? If what I posted isn't accurate what you do is finda source that disputes what I said. Find another definition of minutes of a meeting. Until then you are just making an idiot of yourself.

This debate has boiled down to a pretty mute level and is only going in circles. I have stated my opinion that bush isn't the worst president, granted not close to the best, but worst is going too far. If anyone can come up with something new then please post, arguing about credibility is pretty boring.

no, nothing is going in circles; you are trying to spin it in circles to avoid addressing it. So just for the record incase you don't show up you still haven't shown how Bush isn't a liar that commited an impeachable offense. My points are up there; feel free to refute them. To add to the list seinfeld still hasn't addressed this.

 

[Foxtrot]

have you completely lost it? If what I posted isn't accurate what you do is finda source that disputes what I said. Find another definition of minutes of a meeting. Until then you are just making an idiot of yourself.


no, nothing is going in circles; you are trying to spin it in circles to avoid addressing it. So just for the record incase you don't show up you still haven't shown how Bush isn't a liar that commited an impeachable offense. My points are up there; feel free to refute them. To add to the list seinfeld still hasn't addressed this.

There is nothing to validate that article with though, nothing.

 

[No Limit]

There is nothing to validate that article with though, nothing.

Do you understand you are disputing the meaning of what offical government minutes are? If you do not see the idioticy in that I can't help you.

Thats like me disputing the meaning of "is".

 

[Foxtrot]

Do you understand you are disputing the meaning of what offical government minutes are? If you do not see the idioticy in that I can't help you.

Thats like me disputing the meaning of "is".

Oh ok so the definition of a minute automatically means that the article is 100% authentic.

 

[No Limit]

Oh ok so the definition of a minute automatically means that the article is 100% authentic.

ALL IT TALKS ABOUT IS THE DEFINITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For christ sake

 

[Foxtrot]

I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS!!! IDK WHAT I AM SAYING ANYMORE SO I AM GOING TO PULL SOMETHING OUT OF MY ASS!!!!!

For christ sake

Yay circles!

Let me put those 2 sentences together for you then. "Bush may have lied, bu I do not think he did."

What isn't convincing about your evidence or what you posted is it is all based off of people guessing what bush did or some guy that got fired and is now releasing top secret information(if it were true...that is a crime).

I nee numbers and quotes from the people themselves, not sites that say we believe bush did this and that is why he lied.

The downing street memo is too debatable to use as evidence. It doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the timeline of events and is therefore thought of as a fake. On top of that why go to the U.N. if you decided to use military action before going to the U.N.? The memo doesn't hold up as credible evidence.

1) It was written by a third party
2) The word fix has several meaning
3) The third party does not attribute the word fix to a direct quote from either Bush or Blair
4) Why has none of the people that seem so concerned regarding the memo asked the person that wrote it what it means
5) Regime change in Iraq has been "Official US POLICY Since 1998).

Iraq's WMDs are much like the OJ Trial, we have all the evidence we need but people claim this and that and soon the jury acquits. We have plenty of evidence for Iraq having WMDs. They have the means, resources, technology and time. They keep moving them around. Heck they have labs with everything needed to make them quickly, all set up and designed for specifically that, but alas it isn't a hardcore WMD is it? Nearby countries who are far too obsolete have WMDs, where did they get those?

Bush didn't lie, lying is a very serious offense and I see no impeachment or investigation by officials going on. Give it up, lying is just a word you are using to try and make his being mislead look worse. Aside from that there we plenty of other good reasons to go to war other than WMDS. The civialian death toll is anywhere from 20-25k...thats WAY under how many died from sadam. Yes we took out a lot of stuff during the war which is all being rebuilt and we are helping them much much more than that.

:bounce:

 

[No Limit]

Yay circles!

:bounce:

Ok, you are done and you just helped me prove most Republicans are total asshats and show it when they can't counter a point.

My points still haven't been countered, whos next.

 

[Foxtrot]

Ok, you are done and you just helped me prove most Republicans are total asshats and show it when they can't counter a point.

My points still haven't been countered, whos next.

You haven't made any points dumbass, you posted a definition of something and that is all. Glirk is right, if you can't post anything this is over.

 

[No Limit]

You haven't made any points dumbass, you posted a definition of something and that is all. Glirk is right, if you can't post anything this is over.

Oh okay, so you are just blind:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1450657&postcount=202

if you think calling me a dumbass will make me step down or say something derogatory toward you you are mistaken. The points still stand, a person that disputes a definition calling another person a dumbass is a little ironic but whatever.

 

[Foxtrot]

Oh okay, so you are just blind:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1450657&postcount=202

if you think calling me a dumbass will make me step down or say something derogatory toward you you are mistaken. The points still stand, a person that disputes a definition calling another person a dumbass is a little ironic but whatever.

I am not disputing the defintion, but the validity of the original article, again quit with the circles. This is my last post until something new comes up.

 

[No Limit]

I am not disputing the defintion, but the validity of the original article, again quit with the circles. This is my last post until something new comes up.

What article. what the hell are you talking about? You are yet to address a single point I made. I posted an article in response to one of his points, everything else was written by me based on facts.

now let me ask you this, why are you even in the politics board if you do not know how to have a decent debate?

 

[No Limit]

Good, he wont reply so we got that waste of space out of here.

Here are the points:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1450657&postcount=202

Whos next to try and take a stab at them?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

His defense was that Clinton attacked Iraq using the same intelligance.

His defense also concluded that Clinton gave the attack, "A go" at the end of his term -- which exploits what he wanted to do, but could not given the political weight from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. (Which is also underestimated, yet was also pointed out.)

I think we can all remember how bad Mr. Bill got it when extreme Righties wrote every anti-Clinton article in almost every major news source? Clinton could'nt move without some kind of controversy.

Further, bad intelligence that two Presidents used clearly shows us we had a lack of new intelligence and that the old was used as a manipulation focal for an action not originally perpetrated by these two men.

I still blame the CIA.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Whos next to try and take a stab at them?

Probably none, because were all focused on the sixth pages discussions.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Good, he wont reply so we got that waste of space out of here.

Here are the points:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1450657&postcount=202

Whos next to try and take a stab at them?

completly off topic, but you kicked that guy's ass


"Fight the Bullshit!"

 

[Foxtrot]

completly off topic, but you kicked that guy's ass


"Fight the Bullshit!"

Oh my god, I can't believe people were convinced by that. He has nothing at all and you think he has proof, he has nothing. Until he does post something no one is going to respond to his ignorant rantings.

 

[CptStern]

Oh my god, I can't believe people were convinced by that. He has nothing at all and you think he has proof, he has nothing. Until he does post something no one is going to respond to his ignorant rantings.

sorry but ..no

it gets an official Stern Seal of Approval™

 

[No Limit]

I still blame the CIA.

you are still wrong.

Will you just read all the evidance before you post again so we dont go in circles.

 

[No Limit]

Oh my god, I can't believe people were convinced by that. He has nothing at all and you think he has proof, he has nothing. Until he does post something no one is going to respond to his ignorant rantings.

Here is a hint, if you don't want to look like an asshat instead of screaming trying to discredit me without making an argument please just read what I wrote and then address each point. If it is bullshit you shouldn't have much trouble. Invite your brother.

 

[No Limit]

sorry but ..no

it gets an official Stern Seal of Approval™

I needed to cool off a bit after this thread, I was about to lose it with some of the just competely off the wall remarks I was hearing.

Seal gladly accepted. You'll need to make a graphic for that sometime; or if Im bored at work one day I'll post one .

 

[Foxtrot]

Here is a hint, if you don't want to look like an asshat instead of screaming trying to discredit me without making an argument please just read what I wrote and then address each point. If it is bullshit you shouldn't have much trouble. Invite your brother.

There is nothing to discredit, it is not credible in the first place.

 

[No Limit]

There is nothing to discredit, it has no credit in the first place.

Okay, I tried to be nice and I tried to reason. Forget it, everyone here sees what an ass you made of yourself. I'll leave it at that.

 

[No Limit]

"Fight the Bullshit!"

Fight On BROTHER!!!!!

:cheers:

 

[FictiousWill]

Damn this looks like a heated debate, I'll just pop in to post my agreement with the thread title and be on my way. Byeee

 

[Foxtrot]

Okay, I tried to be nice and I tried to reason. Forget it, everyone here sees what an ass you made of yourself. I'll leave it at that.

The same can be said about you. You rant on and on about "proof" and "evidence" but you have nothing, while I have the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence which have actually done research.

 

[No Limit]

The same can be said about you. You rant on and on about "proof" and "evidence" but you have nothing, while I have the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence which have actually done research.

No, that committee was prohibited by Bush to investigate if intelligance was manipulated. Try again.

 

[Foxtrot]

No, that committee was prohibited by Bush to investigate if intelligance was manipulated. Try again.

What is with the double standard? You have some ambiguous, mystery-memo that no one has validated as being real.

 

[No Limit]

What is with the double standard? You have some ambiguous, mystery-memo that no one has validated as being real.

No one has validated? Are you crazy? have you been under a rock for the last month? the British government validated it.

 

[No Limit]

Come on Foxtrot keep grasping at straws. Lets see what else you come up with.