But I suppose you could in a mod....

[ShinRa]

Ah yes...the never ending repetitive sentence that might as well be copywrited by Valve. I have one simple question - if source can do all these incredibly amazing things, why isn't valve putting them into hl2? And don't say it ruins gameplay, because things like metal and tin bending, per-pixel hit detection, dynamic shadows/lights, and the billions of other things the hl2 mod community asked if they could do and were answered with the brilliant sentence, would not ruin gameplay, only improve on it. So why not? :dozey:

 

[ShadowFox]

Because if they put in every feature everybody wanted it would take them another three years to release the damn thing.

 

[Tyrsenus]

Then HL2 would come out NEXT Fall. Expect to look for this and more in HL3.

 

[Adrien C]

Will it have rolling toilet paper ?

 

[A2597]

most likely, some of these things will work. Others will be added in via updates from steam, they DID say that was the beuty of source, how easy it was to update...

 

[Tyrsenus]

I personally can't wait for fluid dynamics :naughty:

 

[Wildhound]

I personally can't wait for fluid dynamics :naughty:

Actually I'm not too interested in fluid dynamics. What actual applications are there for it? Very few really... It's an awful lot of effort for something that's not going to add much to anything. Ever.

It would only make sense in a game that was heavily based on water.

 

[thefiznut]

What if saving the world depends on you, who must flush the stinky toilet of doom! But alas, you finally make it to the toilet, to find that flushing it only makes a sound, and the water remains perfectly still.. Oh the dissapointment of not having fluid dynamics

 

[NeonSpyder]

well, maybe somone will mod an atlantis game with submarines and leprachauns.

 

[thefiznut]

Oh yeah back on topic...

I don't know why really guinny. But personally, instead of all the nice looking eye candy (not to say HL2 looks bad, it's probably the most realistic looking out of all the games) and physics goodness, i'd rather have more refined gameplay, story, etc.. I'm sure that's the reason Valve has not put all these other features in. They're more interested in creating a damn fine game without all the cool bits.

 

[SpuD]

Oh yeah back on topic...

I don't know why really guinny. But personally, instead of all the nice looking eye candy (not to say HL2 looks bad, it's probably the most realistic looking out of all the games) and physics goodness, i'd rather have more refined gameplay, story, etc.. I'm sure that's the reason Valve has not put all these other features in. They're more interested in creating a damn fine game without all the cool bits.

I agree, gameplay and story are more important than graphics

 

[Tyrsenus]

Actually I'm not too interested in fluid dynamics. What actual applications are there for it?

how about you cap someones arm off and blood squirts out of the stump, kill bill style?

 

[UltimaGecko]

Actually I'm not too interested in fluid dynamics. What actual applications are there for it? Very few really... It's an awful lot of effort for something that's not going to add much to anything. Ever.

It would only make sense in a game that was heavily based on water.

Well, everyone knows that air, too, is a fluid. Thus fluid dynamics would provide you a way to make realistic lava flows, billowing air currents (woot for realistic flight), monstrous tidal waves and various other cool effects in games.

Granted it wouldn't be needed as a constant effect, and only implemented in some sequences (to start with), but eventually it'll help with that ever evolving "realism factor" everyone seems deeply enthusiastic about.

So you could - just based off fluid dynamics - create a realistic flight simulator (which instead of instantly stalling at [blank] altitude at [blank] speed stalls at when [blank] lift force isn't applied to lift [blank] mass airplane based on volume of air going under the wing based on altitude). Then you could create awesome Bernulli's principle effects with pipes and...

...Well, maybe it's more of a physics thing than a plot thing.

 

[Teddy]

how about you cap someones arm off and blood squirts out of the stump, kill bill style?

That'd use particles. Unless you wanted it to collect in pools on the ground.

But you'd be an idiot to use fluid dynamics, when you could use decals (like valve .

Oh, and fluid dynamics, in-game, is like 10x more CPU intensive than cloth simulation, which is already too much for current computers to handle. so ner.

 

[Adrien C]

Gameplay and Story is much more important that graphics.

 

[UltimaGecko]

Gameplay and Story is much more important that graphics.

Yes, let's play the "High and Might Gameplay" card.

Okay. Barring the flight simulator example above:

Say it's Half-Life (###), and you've got to pass some enemies in a sewer. You hop in the sewer, and you're drifting along - then, oh no! The pipe splits. You notice the enemies are heavily armed, and ready to kill. There's a small canal that you'll just barely fit through on the right, and a giant canal on the left [with the enemies on a walkway in the middle], both paths are of the same depth.

Which one do you choose?

 

[McFly]

I believe valve did not implement these elements simply because it would not take away from gameplay, but it would mislead the person from the story driven part of the game. To much interactivity, and a person would simply forget the current objective and shoot through a metal wall and get sidetracked from what valve wanted the player to experience.

 

[poseyjmac]

ding ding ding! that is correct!

 

[Geno]

i'd pick the bigger tunnel because i don't like tight spaces, but i don't see what that has to do with anything

 

[famas_man]

I think fluid dynamics could be used quite a bit in a game like halflife2. There could be a weapon or 2 that use fluid dynamics (a gun that shoots toxic waste or something). Also it could easily be incorperated into maps. Water vehicles would also be quite fun to ride I would assume.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

They didn't implement because they didn't need to. It's as simple as that. They added the features that they needed to make the game.

 

[Bicka]

Shame its not in though as one of the enemies/allies is waterbased (hydras). Woulda been nice to see them splash to the floor or something when they died (if they do)...

 

[redundant]

regardless of whether fluid dynamics would or would not add to the gameplay, it cannot be done in real-time with current hardware.

 

[Shuzer]

Without reading this thread's replies (WAY too tired), I'd say the number one answer would be...

Performance. Scalability. They want people on old, crappy machines to be able to run HL2. Adding more and more features in like that would raise system requirements. Also, it'd need a beast of a machine to run at max details.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yes, let's play the "High and Might Gameplay" card.

Okay. Barring the flight simulator example above:

Say it's Half-Life (###), and you've got to pass some enemies in a sewer. You hop in the sewer, and you're drifting along - then, oh no! The pipe splits. You notice the enemies are heavily armed, and ready to kill. There's a small canal that you'll just barely fit through on the right, and a giant canal on the left [with the enemies on a walkway in the middle], both paths are of the same depth.

Which one do you choose?

... What does that have to do with anything at all?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Ah yes...the never ending repetitive sentence that might as well be copywrited by Valve. I have one simple question - if source can do all these incredibly amazing things, why isn't valve putting them into hl2? And don't say it ruins gameplay, because things like metal and tin bending, per-pixel hit detection, dynamic shadows/lights, and the billions of other things the hl2 mod community asked if they could do and were answered with the brilliant sentence, would not ruin gameplay, only improve on it. So why not? :dozey:

the simple answer?
if Valve kept adding new features...they would never finish the game?
i mean.. as a developer, at some point u gotta say.. "we are going with this, this and this and will worry about adding other stuff perhaps in patches/updates"

u do want the game.. at some point in ur lifetime.. right? or perhaps u are one of those fans that loves to wait for eternity? :|

 

[blahblahblah]

There are a bunch of answers

1) They didn't have time to code it in the engine or implement it in HL2 the game
2) Scalability issues. If you have a game altering feature, you must be able to implement it on all hardware.
3) Computers are not powerful enough. That is why Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 are such different games. No computer is powerful enough to run all of the features of Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 at the same time.
4) New (or more advanced) features can hurt gameplay. Example, the physics in HL2. They are semi-realistic but are not perfect. Imagine if HL2 had perfect physics. The game would be no fun.

 

[WillH]

Do you really want HL2:FOREVER? I rest my case.

 

[CR0M]

3) Computers are not powerful enough. That is why Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 are such different games. No computer is powerful enough to run all of the features of Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 at the same time.

Above would be the likely answer.

And detracting from gameplay? come on, that's not a reason - it's an excuse. Having all features source is capable of would make a GOD of games, not the opposite - how can anyone honestly believe that playing a game with real life physics and fluid dynamics would be boring? Neanderthals.

 

[phantomdesign]

I don't see why this should be an issue to flame valve over...but rather an issue to thank valve.

VALVE ROCKS!!!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Above would be the likely answer.

And detracting from gameplay? come on, that's not a reason - it's an excuse. Having all features source is capable of would make a GOD of games, not the opposite - how can anyone honestly believe that playing a game with real life physics and fluid dynamics would be boring? Neanderthals.

Real-life physics is the #1 best thing that HL2 is bringing up that HL1 didn't have.

On the other hand, fluid dynamics would really only be useful in a game where water is prevalent.

It's like in red faction. Destructible walls are realistic, but in the context of a game they're just shoehorned in. Puzzles based on which walls to break. Mission objectives like 'break through that wall'.

The problem red faction had was that it added something that no-one really missed all that much. Sure, lots of people played games and thought "I wish I could bust through that wall" but the fact remains that games just don't need that feature. It's a lot of work put into an okay-ish effect.

 

[Cruz]

yep atleast they are telling you that it can be done and not that it's not supported by the engine.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

how can anyone honestly believe that playing a game with real life physics and fluid dynamics would be boring? Neanderthals.

i think u missed his point when he said "it would be boring" i think he said that because current hardware probably wouldn't be able to run the game too decently...ie. lots of stagerring and possibly low frame rates as well. in a scenerio like that, yes the game would be boring.

and neanderthal? don't u think ur being just a tad harsh even if u still don't agree with the guy? :|

 

[Cybernoid]

Ah yes...the never ending repetitive sentence that might as well be copywrited by Valve. I have one simple question - if source can do all these incredibly amazing things, why isn't valve putting them into hl2? And don't say it ruins gameplay, because things like metal and tin bending, per-pixel hit detection, dynamic shadows/lights, and the billions of other things the hl2 mod community asked if they could do and were answered with the brilliant sentence, would not ruin gameplay, only improve on it. So why not? :dozey:

I guess you could mod these things.

 

[CR0M]

and neanderthal? don't u think ur being just a tad harsh even if u still don't agree with the guy? :|

no dood - you misunderstand - neanderthal isn't meant as an insult to anyone - just a reference to outdated technology is all

 

[Someone]

I think many people are right in this thread (because I don't think there is a single answer to this), but let me throw in some more stuff.

If they could add "Super Duper Tech Thing A", than they'd have to add areas of the game where it "means" something...otherwise it's a waste of time putting it in. Look at Doom3 with the lights/shadows. To put that much time and effort into the lighting means they had better have it ALL over the game, otherwise it's a waste of time using it. Now imagine if Doom3 was a brightly lit game save for an area or two....would it have been worth adding that kinda of lighting if the game wasn't always in the dark?

I think this is the approach Valve took: if it adds to the game and there are specific situations where we can use it to our advantage than we'll add it. If it was pretty, but really added little to HL2, or there just weren't enough places to use it, they left it out for, perhaps, future games. Would Doom3's lights/shadows help HL2 be a better game? It's very very doubtful because it's not a game which exists in the dark 99% of the time, so why not take that feature out and use a decent light/shadow alternative instead and save some computer power for other features we might want to use instead which WILL make the game better?

Not all fancy stuff actually makes a game better after all. Adding things JUST to add them would be incredibly detracting. I think making a game around what tech you have is the wrong way to do it. Write the plot/story and build the game around that and use what tech makes that plot/story work it's best, rather than adding parts to the game just to use a specific engine features here and there.

There does have to be a finite amount of things you want to use...but that should be based on what you want to do, rather than what the engine is capable of.

 

[ShadowFox]

Some of the examples mentioned with fluid dynamics could be done now with some scripting.

Crom, where did you get that avatar? It's awesome.

 

[Varsity]

I agree, gameplay and story are more important than graphics

To a point, of course. I wouldn't want to play HL2 if it looked like Hellboy. :x

 

[Son_Kane]

Yeah I hate graphics too. I play in software at 320x240. Oh no wait; I like great graphics what was I thinking. It's sad to make an excuse to cover something you feel is the greatest thing ever. I won't be convinced that Source is as moddable as they say until we see mods for it that do some different stuff. And until they release an update that upgrades graphics. If they don't do that then that's one more lie for the Valve team.

 

[ShadowFox]

Yeah I hate graphics too. I play in software at 320x240. Oh no wait; I like great graphics what was I thinking. It's sad to make an excuse to cover something you feel is the greatest thing ever. I won't be convinced that Source is as moddable as they say until we see mods for it that do some different stuff. And until they release an update that upgrades graphics. If they don't do that then that's one more lie for the Valve team.

You just can't make this stuff up. :cheers: