CIA hired Mafia to poison Castro

[CptStern]

my my in bed with organized crime to commit murder ..tsk tsk, not so benelovent now are we?

The closest the CIA came to killing Cuba's Fidel Castro was a 1963 attempt with a poison pill delivered by American mobsters that was to be slipped into a chocolate milkshake, a former Cuban intelligence chief said.

But the capsule stuck to the freezer where it was hidden in the cafeteria of the Havana Libre (ex Hilton) Hotel and ripped open when the would-be assassin waiter went to get the poison.

sound far fetched?

The CIA declassified nearly 700 pages of secret records detailing some of its illegal acts during 25 years of overseas assassination attempts and domestic spying.

The agency's so-called "Family Jewels" describe the initial efforts to get rid of Castro by using a go-between to convince two top mobsters, Salvatore Giancana and Santos Trafficant, the head of the Mafia's Cuban casino operations, to assassinate Castro. Giancana suggested poisoning him.

Six potent pills were provided in 1961 to Juan Orta, identified as a Cuban official who had been receiving kickback payments from gambling interests, who still had access to Castro and was in a financial bind. But Orta got cold feet.

The agency acknowledged last week for the first time that the plot to assassinate Castro was personally approved by the Kennedy administration's CIA director Allen Dulles.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070705/ts_nm/cuba_cia_dc

 

[Thunderclap]

The important thing is that they tried.

 

[CptStern]

I bet you cant name one legitimate reason as to why he should have been assasinated

 

[Gunner]

Communism - cold war - cuban missile crisis - soviets - etc...

 

[Baratos]

That man is going to outlive all of us.

 

[Thunderclap]

No I can't name a good reason Stern, but Castro assassinations are inherently funny (and therefore justified ), especially when the Mob is somehow involved. I mean...poison chocolate milkshake? That doesn't need me to mock it, the concept is hilarious by itself. I would not be surprised if Baratos is right and Castro lives to 114 or something.

 

[Flyingdebris]

he's castro, thats enough reason for me

 

[15357]

he's castro, thats enough reason for me

Agreed.

 

[Jintor]

So should we kill all people named Castro? o-O

 

[Sloth]

If you look at him from a Marxist view - he was, and is, the only true Communist Leader. He truely thought communism was best for his people and the rest of the world - not getting twisted by politicial reasons.

 

[Nemesis6]

So should we kill all people named Castro? o-O

There are more than one?

 

[CptStern]

he's castro, thats enough reason for me

Agreed.

No I can't name a good reason Stern, but Castro assassinations are inherently funny (and therefore justified ), especially when the Mob is somehow involved. I mean...poison chocolate milkshake? That doesn't need me to mock it, the concept is hilarious by itself. I would not be surprised if Baratos is right and Castro lives to 114 or something.

Communism - cold war - cuban missile crisis - soviets - etc...

so in other words none of you can up with a good enough reason except "just because" :upstare: (Gunner, giving me a time period or naming the population of a country does nothing)

you know I expect this level of unquestioning loyalty to some policy you dont even comprend from Numbers but not the rest of you ...again give me legitimate and specific reasons as to why you believe the US can commit crimes without consequence ..remember just saying "just because " isnt good enough (if you cant come up with anything, dont post a reply) ..oh also any justification that's superficial in nature will be thrown back in your face in the form of justifying the assasination of your own leaders

 

[Sulkdodds]

Hang on, wasn't this kind of chicanery common knowledge?

I mean Giancana and Trafficant even appear in American Tabloid.

 

[CptStern]

yes it's not new, the article mentions that ..what is new is that the recently declassiffied documents talk about the methods ..had anybody bothered to read the article there's a list of bizarre assasination attempts but I wanted to focus on the motivations ..which no one seems capable of naming

 

[Sulkdodds]

Er, I would say the motivations are fairly usual - a cocktail of self interest consisting of the desire to gain or maintain power and influence, to gain money, and to maintain the status quo. This is generally the motivation of most political actions. Ain't it wonderful?

 

[Nemesis6]

They should've poisoned his cigars instead. Sure hit on those.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I believe they tried that one.

By the way, feel free to continue posting entirely irrelevant comments in this thread that make a farce of any semblance of discussion. I'm sure there's no chance of anyone disciplining you for trolling. I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[CptStern]

yes but I want it justified ..there's more than a few people in this thread that say his attempted assasination justified ..ok then, explain why it's justified. Ecplain why state sponsored murder is ok (not you sulky)

 

[CptStern]

They should've poisoned his cigars instead. Sure hit on those.

ah Nemesis you're always so predicatable, Mr-I-Never-Read-the-Article:

Some of the most imaginative cloak-and-dagger plots were the brainchild of the Central Intelligence Agency, he said.

They included poisoned cigars ..

< - this is me laughing at you not with you

 

[DeusExMachina]

I would imagine since Castro was a communist leader and didn't like America too much?

 

[CptStern]

so that's grounds for murder? man besides the communist thing that describes almost every world leader

 

[Gunner]

so in other words none of you can up with a good enough reason except "just because" :upstare: (Gunner, giving me a time period or naming the population of a country does nothing)

Those were legitimate reasons in the eye of the US government. Not my reasons, I don't care either way about Castro.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Those were legitimate reasons in the eye of the US government. Not my reasons, I don't care either way about Castro.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[CptStern]

Those were legitimate reasons in the eye of the US government.

still doesnt make it legitimate ..I mean why else would it be classified?

maybe because it was an extra-judicial killing which is against international law and contrary to the declarion of human rights which the US signed


why is Vladimir Arutinian in jail?

May 10, 2005: While George Bush was giving a speech in the Freedom Square in Tbilisi, Georgia, Vladimir Arutinian threw a live Soviet-made RGD-5 hand grenade towards the podium where he was standing and where Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and their two wives and officials were seated.

Arutinian was arrested in July 2005 and admitted to throwing the grenade. He was convicted in January 2006, and was given a life sentence

why isnt Alan Dulles in jail? (ok besides the fact that he's long dead) ..he ordered the assassinations of castro and others, most were successful ..in fact he was instrumental in forming an assassination team:

Operation 40 not only was involved in sabotage operations but also, in fact, evolved into a team of assassins. One member, Frank Sturgis, claimed: "this assassination group (Operation 40) would upon orders, naturally, assassinate either members of the military or the political parties of the foreign country that you were going to infiltrate, and if necessary some of your own members who were suspected of being foreign agents... We were concentrating strictly in Cuba at that particular time."

what's the difference between Dulles and Vladimir Arutinian? the fact that Dulles waves a flag whereas Arutinian had more personal reasons?


DeusExMachina perhaps you'd like to justify why assassination is at all justified in the case ..especially since the US passed a law saying political assassination was illegal:

In 1976, President Ford issued Executive Order 11905 to clarify U.S. foreign intelligence activities. The order was enacted in response to the post-Watergate revelations that the CIA had staged multiple attempts on the life of Cuban President Fidel Castro

In a section of the order labeled "Restrictions on Intelligence Activities," Ford outlawed political assassination: Section 5(g), entitled "Prohibition on Assassination," states: "No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination."

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/11/04/us.assassination.policy/


so again someone please justify the attempted assassination of castro ...one sentence answers that really saying nothing more than "just because" isnt cutting it

 

[Nemesis6]

Do you feel like the bigger man now, Stern?

<- This is me being condescending to you.

Why do you need to be an ass over the simplest things?

 

[CptStern]

Do you feel like the bigger man now, Stern?

<- This is me being condescending to you.

only if by "bigger man" you mean you made yourself the "little man" making me (or anyone) the bigger man by default

Why do you need to be an ass over the simplest things?

why cant you read a simple article without throwing in your opinion that's based on nothing besides your ignorant pov? ..I have no tolerance for your brand of kneejerk alarmism ..and even though you really havent been alarmist in this thread; I'm tired of you consistently ignoring evidence/or even reading the supplied material for that matter .. just think of it as cumulative ..the straw that broke the camel's back etc. You want my respect? earn it ..respect the rules of debate, respect proper research, proper assessment of avaiable information, examine one sided information with a critical eye and perhaps you'll have earned respect ..i mean I disagree with 99% of what, for example, repIV says ..yet I rarely if ever insult him, sure I may have a snide remark or two but at least we remain civil

 

[Solaris]

Yes, this is covered in John Pilgers film 'War against Democracy', it's brilliant, you must see it.

 

[clarky003]

The CIA are far worse, I mean they purposefully try to cause international unrest. The mafia atleast have honour, the CIA and IRS goons who primarly work for large corporate and banking interests hav'nt a shred of honour.

 

[Nemesis6]

why cant you read a simple article without throwing in your opinion that's based on nothing besides your ignorant pov? ..I have no tolerance for your brand of kneejerk alarmism ..and even though you really havent been alarmist in this thread; I'm tired of you consistently ignoring evidence/or even reading the supplied material for that matter .. just think of it as cumulative ..the straw that broke the camel's back etc. You want my respect? earn it ..respect the rules of debate, respect proper research, proper assessment of avaiable information, examine one sided information with a critical eye and perhaps you'll have earned respect ..i mean I disagree with 99% of what, for example, repIV says ..yet I rarely if ever insult him, sure I may have a snide remark or two but at least we remain civil

Read a simple article? In this case I didn't wanna bother as it wouldn't surprise me that they did. Don't get on that horse yet because I know you don't read stuff I post, either. The thread about the Sudanese refugees come to mind. And don't accuse me of alarmism. It doesn't make any sense when you use it as a general insult as you do here. Ignoring evidence, I believe you've done that with a lot of stuff that I've posted, too. The CAIR stuff comes to mind; The high horse again. I don't want your respect. I want you to stop being an ass at every opportunity you get. Rules of debate? Now you're just being a hypocrite. Even in this thread you can't just inform me that this was indeed mentioned, you had to be mean about it. I don't know why you do it; if you're trying to make yourself seem extreme or something, but I have no ****ing respect for it.

 

[15357]

so in other words none of you can up with a good enough reason except "just because" :upstare: (Gunner, giving me a time period or naming the population of a country does nothing)

you know I expect this level of unquestioning loyalty to some policy you dont even comprend from Numbers but not the rest of you ...again give me legitimate and specific reasons as to why you believe the US can commit crimes without consequence ..remember just saying "just because " isnt good enough (if you cant come up with anything, dont post a reply) ..oh also any justification that's superficial in nature will be thrown back in your face in the form of justifying the assasination of your own leaders

In Castro's Cuba, a doctor gets about $60 a month. Even though he/she has no problems living due to govermental support, they are unable to buy material goods for pleasure. This takes away a vital democratic freedom, the freedom of property, the freedom of choice in economical terms. His viral ideals of marxism and communism are a clear and dangerous threat to the peace and prosperity of humanity, and we cannot tolerate this flagrance of outdated ideals that will surely lead to nothing more than misery.

 

[DeusExMachina]

DeusExMachina perhaps you'd like to justify why assassination is at all justified in the case ..especially since the US passed a law saying political assassination was illegal:

Oh yeah sure.

Because they can and want to. I'm sure the US couldn't care less if anyone else found it justifiable. I don't stand behind it nor do I advocate that type of thing. I guess I could throw out the American Empire wanting to control everything and everyone and eliminating anyone who disagrees with them because they're big bad neoconservative christian fascists.

But I'm a little bored so I won't bother.

 

[CptStern]

In Castro's Cuba, a doctor gets about $60 a month.

kill the leaders of 1/3 the worlds population because they live on less than $2 a day ...what does that have to do with anyting?

Even though he/she has no problems living due to govermental support, they are unable to buy material goods for pleasure.

you mean like an xbox360, a corvette or other things embargoed by the US? again how does material wealth justify murder? my boss doesnt pay me enough to own a yachet, before I leave for the day I'm slipping poison into his coffee ..no court in the world could possibly convict me of anything

This takes away a vital democratic freedom, the freedom of property, the freedom of choice in economical terms. His viral ideals of marxism and communism are a clear and dangerous threat to the peace and prosperity of humanity,

cuba hasnt participated in a single war since it became communist ..in fact there hasnt been a single declared war in over 100 years

and we cannot tolerate this flagrance of outdated ideals that will surely lead to nothing more than misery.

who's we? you? you have no say whatsoever ..neither you nor your government is not in any way affected by cuba


you have provided nothing except "because they're communist" ...political ideology does not justify murder ..if that were true you could pretty much assassinate anyone without fear of legal reprecussions ...once again your brainwashing supercedes common sense ..you really need to get out more Numbers

 

[No Limit]

In Castro's Cuba, a doctor gets about $60 a month. Even though he/she has no problems living due to govermental support, they are unable to buy material goods for pleasure. This takes away a vital democratic freedom, the freedom of property, the freedom of choice in economical terms. His viral ideals of marxism and communism are a clear and dangerous threat to the peace and prosperity of humanity, and we cannot tolerate this flagrance of outdated ideals that will surely lead to nothing more than misery.

So making sure everyone can survive is bad because a top 1% of the population can't buy fancy useless shit?

When will you people learn, the system we live in doesn't work everywhere.

They have free health care, one of the world's best education systems, and many other good things and that is reason to kill the guy that created all this?

I can't wait for the day Castro dies, maybe things will change for much better in that country since our idiotic government might actually stop the trade embargo on them. But none of you posting this bullshit about "dangerous to humanity" or "he's evil" can not justify your position in a rational way. Your post proves it.

 

[Gunner]

In Castro's Cuba, a doctor gets about $60 a month. Even though he/she has no problems living due to govermental support, they are unable to buy material goods for pleasure. This takes away a vital democratic freedom, the freedom of property, the freedom of choice in economical terms. His viral ideals of marxism and communism are a clear and dangerous threat to the peace and prosperity of humanity, and we cannot tolerate this flagrance of outdated ideals that will surely lead to nothing more than misery.

Where'd you copy that from?

 

[CptStern]

Oh yeah sure.

Because they can and want to. I'm sure the US couldn't care less if anyone else found it justifiable. I don't stand behind it nor do I advocate that type of thing. I guess I could throw out the American Empire wanting to control everything and everyone and eliminating anyone who disagrees with them because they're big bad neoconservative christian fascists.

But I'm a little bored so I won't bother.

those same justifications can be used by anyone ...I'm willing to bet large sums of money that if foreign nations assassinated US citizens you'd all be screaming for "justice" ...according to a majority of americans justice is relative ..so long as it's them dispensing it ..it annoys me that they cant see their own hypocrisy. It's also what eventually leads to airplanes full of passengers slamming into the sides of buildings ...but then they gape stupidly and ask "why?"

 

[15357]

kill the leaders of 1/3 the worlds population because they live on less than $2 a day ...what does that have to do with anyting?

It is merely an example of how their goverment takes away what is more than their due.

you mean like an xbox360, a corvette or other things embargoed by the US? again how does material wealth justify murder? my boss doesnt pay me enough to own a yachet, before I leave for the day I'm slipping poison into his coffee ..no court in the world could possibly convict me of anything

.....Are you a doctor?

cuba hasnt participated in a single war since it became communist ..in fact there hasnt been a single declared war in over 100 years

But their have been near-wars, like the missle crisis, not to mention reports of political prisonors in absymal conditions.

who's we? you? you have no say whatsoever ..neither you nor your government is not in any way affected by cuba

The free world.

you have provided nothing except "because they're communist" ...political ideology does not justify murder ..if that were true you could pretty much assassinate anyone without fear of legal reprecussions ...once again your brainwashing supercedes common sense ..you really need to get out more Numbers

That should be enough of a reason, really.

Justice is not always legal.

So making sure everyone can survive is bad because a top 1% of the population can't buy fancy useless shit?

They don't survive, they are just about equal, the same in every damn respect.

When will you people learn, the system we live in doesn't work everywhere.

They have free health care, one of the world's best education systems, and many other good things and that is reason to kill the guy that created all this?

I have yet to see any student go study abroad in cuba. (although that may or may not be due to restrictions.... I'll have to check.)

I can't wait for the day Castro dies, maybe things will change for much better in that country since our idiotic government might actually stop the trade embargo on them. But none of you posting this bullshit about "dangerous to humanity" or "he's evil" can not justify your position in a rational way. Your post proves it.

Missle crisis, anyone?

Where'd you copy that from?

Ah, go to whereever you came from, DEMON OF LIBERALISM!

 

[CptStern]

Where'd you copy that from?

no one ..it's part of his programming ...oh and Numbers it's "flagrant" not flagrancy"

 

[15357]

oh and Numbers it's "flagrant" not flagrancy"

Oh.



;(

 

[No Limit]

They don't survive, they are just about equal, the same in every damn respect.

They don't survive? Last I checked I think they have a longer life expectancy that we do here in the states.

I have yet to see any student go study abroad in cuba. (although that may or may not be due to restrictions.... I'll have to check.)

LOL, are you trying to be funny?

First as you said nobody here in the US can go to Cuba for anything. Second, the point isn't they are trying to educate anyone outside of the country. The point is everyone in THEIR country gets a good, make that great, education.

Missle crisis, anyone?

Assasination, anyone?

You do not understand that even after we put an embargo on them that is devastating to their citizens Castro is still able to provide everyone a life where they don't starve, where they get an education, and they get the medical care they need. Things could certainly be better there and Castro is by no means a saint. But I will say it again, you have absolutely no rational argument for assassinating him even if you overlook the fact that assassination is illegal in not only our legal system but by international law.

In the end we need to drop the trade embargo over there and start having good relations with Cuba, they can be a great ally. But for some reason communism at least in this country is automatically associated with evil. Its arrogance at its finest.

 

[CptStern]

It is merely an example of how their goverment takes away what is more than their due.

name me one government that doesnt do this? I guess you've never heard of Haliburton or payola?

.....Are you a doctor?

? that makes about as much sense had you said "are you a carrot"? ...what does that have to do with anything? how does being poor justify murder ..please explain

But their have been near-wars, like the missle crisis,

yes let's not forget the missle "crisis"

The crisis began in 1961 when the U.S. started deploying 15 Jupiter IRBM (intermediate-range ballistic nuclear missiles with a 1500 mile range and a flight time of about 16 minutes) near İzmir, Turkey, directly threatening cities in the western sections of the Soviet Union, including Moscow. On October 14, 1962 U.S. reconnaissance imagery revealed similar installations being installed in Cuba, as a response to the American threat.

so again how does the missle crisis JUSTIFY murder?

not to mention reports of political prisonors in absymal conditions.

oh no we cant have that

The free world.

that answers nothing

That should be enough of a reason, really.

but that would JUSTIFY any assassination because it's always politically motivated; that's what assassination means ..why do I even have to explain this to you?

Justice is not always legal.

is that like some crazy riddle where if you examine it long enough it'll make your head explode because that makes zero sense ..how can someone dispense "justice" by engaging in criminality? that doesnt work ..dont ever use that in school, you'll be laughed (or in your case given 40 lashes) right out of the room