Closet or Corner Camping

[Fiberawptic]

To your surprise, this thread isn't saying how bad closet camping is, but rather how its foolish that everyone acts like its an exploit. I was reading this thread on Left4Dead411
http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=2&topic=8472

Why are they so anti-closet camping? Its the same deal with cs_office projector camping, IF ITS IN THE GAME AND NOT AN EXPLOIT, ITS LEGIT. This guy is saying that we HAVE TO defend ourselves during crescendos by standing in the wide open with our tail between our knees to be 'fair'. Lmao, has he even tried that? I only play on expert mode in campaign, and theres really nothing else you can do but find a place thats partially enclosed, or else the zombies swarm around you and the otehr players and knock you down. I understand its a little unfair for the infected in versus mode, but they're underpowered all the time anyways. And besides, the best tactic is to swarm in and use the melee attack on them and that does a lot damage.

Closet camping also has a huge drawback, the survivors only get to see the zombies when they're a foot away from them. Thats why i much prefer camping against the wall by closet at the Dead Air finale rather than closet because the enemes storm in so fast and we dont see them from a far.

I just think its so stupid and pure whining at its best. If it was an exploit, than yes, its stupid but its not, its a place they put in the map that we can get to... I was tempted to join those forums just bring that up, but im too lazy...

 

[Mutley]

Nothing wrong with it in my opinion... but the silly Melee doesn't help!...
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=150345

 

[Fiberawptic]

nah melees fine, i think maybe they should make it where a hunter doesn't get stunned when its meleed. Only when its pounced on someone but its bogus how it gets stunned before it even gets someone. thats about it

 

[McGooTheWise]

I've been thinking that a hunter should have to take 2 melees to be knocked off of a survivor. It wouldn't take that much longer, but long enough for a hunter to get a few good swipes in, since being a hunter seems to be the only thing the director makes me. It is very rare that you can get a good jump in with a hunter, and realistically, if there really were such a thing, I don't think he would be knocked away from his victim so easily by a silly punch. Perhaps if a survivor gets caught in a hunter's swipe he gets knocked back like when it pounces. After all, if a team is coordinated at all, hunters stand no chance.

 

[MJ12]

My favorite "exploit" I've ever seen someone try to attempt was in No Mercy Finale on versus, when the team of survivors went underneath one of the metal ramps that is completely enclosed except for the back, but still allowing them to shoot all around them because it is a metal "cage".

It was so laughable, they failed miserably once our tank came, with no medpacks or ammo, ****tards.

 

[Reflex]

Meele really helps in massive hordes.

 

[McGooTheWise]

What I really hate is when on No Mercy finale when the survivors go up on the ledge behind the room with supplies, it is hard as hell to get them down, and they usually stay safe until a tank comes, then a jump swipe knocks them down, butt it still isn't very easy.

 

[Natan]

it does take the challenge out of fighting the horde but sometimes your fed up of playing the same map 7 times in a row.

 

[KennyJC]

It's not that it's an exploit, it's that there is no good counter to it.

I'm sure Valve will add an area of effect attack that makes the corner/closet campers want to move.

 

[Mutley]

I'm sure Valve will add an area of effect attack that makes the corner/closet campers want to move.

That's what the Boomer is for though, yet I could fight off one horde after another being sat in a corner and just holding Melee down - you never get injured.

 

[knut]

My favorite "exploit" I've ever seen someone try to attempt was in No Mercy Finale on versus, when the team of survivors went underneath one of the metal ramps that is completely enclosed except for the back, but still allowing them to shoot all around them because it is a metal "cage".

It was so laughable, they failed miserably once our tank came, with no medpacks or ammo, ****tards.

Actually, this ''exploit'' also works really well. I don't use it as I find it to be very boring, but I've seen quite a few teams win thanks to that.

Hopefully Valve will close it off in a patch. Whilst closest/corner camping is helpful, it doesn't always work to your best advantage, so to me it's a perfectly fair strategy simply because I've seen it work and fail an equal amount of times.

 

[Gordon-Shepherd]

I think it's alright in campaign if all the survivors want to do it- in campaign It's a victimless crime, yknow? if you want to make the game boring for yourself that's alright with me. however, it ruins the game in vs when you get an impenetrable little base of survivors holding down melee and shooting the specials from time to time.

 

[PvtRyan]

It's not an exploit but it's cheap and takes the fun and challenge out of the game, especially the finale. I'd rather die and have a good time in crazy situations fighting the horde than sit on a closet and win easy. Hell, the game is most fun when everything goes tits up.

 

[KennyJC]

That's what the Boomer is for though, yet I could fight off one horde after another being sat in a corner and just holding Melee down - you never get injured.

Boomer makes little/no difference to closet and corner camping.

 

[Gordon-Shepherd]

It's not an exploit but it's cheap and takes the fun and challenge out of the game, especially the finale. I'd rather die and have a good time in crazy situations fighting the horde than sit on a closet and win easy. Hell, the game is most fun when everything goes tits up.

This
also

ITS LEGIT.

I understand its a little unfair for the infected in versus mode

Lol hypocrisy

but they're underpowered all the time anyways.

This team is underpowered, let's RUIN THEIR GAME FURTHER FOR THEM

Closet camping also has a huge drawback, the survivors only get to see the zombies when they're a foot away from them

Then hammer melee to gain invincibility

I just think its so stupid and pure whining at its best.

Whining about whining=metawhining?

Thats why i much prefer camping against the wall by closet at the Dead Air finale rather than closet because the enemes storm in so fast and we dont see them from a far.

I don't know what area you're talking about, but fair enough? I guess?

 

[Sheepo]

My favorite "exploit" I've ever seen someone try to attempt was in No Mercy Finale on versus, when the team of survivors went underneath one of the metal ramps that is completely enclosed except for the back, but still allowing them to shoot all around them because it is a metal "cage".

It was so laughable, they failed miserably once our tank came, with no medpacks or ammo, ****tards.

lol, same thing.

Closets and rooms make for very valuable places to hold up and fight off enemies and are in no way an exploit. Sure, it may not be fair in versus, but that doesn't make it any less valid. I still think Versus should be advanced, and the infected should be buffed in some way. Would you rather make a stand in a small easily defensible room during the zombie apocalypse, or a big ass warehouse with many entrances?

 

[Gordon-Shepherd]

but see, now you're talking about realism, when we're talking about balance. really, maybe if they gave the closets an extra door or something so they can't just focus on one little square and hammer melee, pausing occasionally to shoot a failed smoker attempt. It's boring, really- for all involved.

 

[Mutley]

Boomer makes little/no difference to closet and corner camping.

That's what I'm saying, it should... and it would... if melee didn't make you invincible against hordes.

 

[PvtRyan]

Boomer splosion should do significant damage / high risk of knockdown. At least on expert it should.

 

[Fiberawptic]

Lol hypocrisy

Hypocrisy? About what? Do you not know what legitimate means? It has nothing to do with fairness, i'm simply saying that it's a perfectly fine method to use, but its just hard for the infected players to get around by, since they depend on surronding survivors. Not hypocrisy...

This team is underpowered, let's RUIN THEIR GAME FURTHER FOR THEM

I wasn't saying lets make it even harder on the infected, but they always have the lower-hand and closet camping isn't the reason so.

Then hammer melee to gain invincibility

Melee spam also won't completely work,because its such a slow method for death, so unless they want to spend 10 mins melee every single zombie to death, they're gonna have to shoot them, which they often do.

Whining about whining=metawhining?

Ah, ok, pull off the "your saying how people who whine annoy you, so your now in turn, a whiner." Try playing with a better deck of cards next time rather than showing your flamboyant ignorance.

I don't know what area you're talking about

So this explains why your post is either untrue or nonsensical.

 

[Gordon-Shepherd]

lol

Hypocrisy? About what? Do you not know what legitimate means? It has nothing to do with fairness, i'm simply saying that it's a perfectly fine method to use

how can a tactic be illegitimate without being unfair?
pish posh, let's leave this one, it's just going to devolve into petty semantics really.

but they always have the lower-hand and closet camping isn't the reason so.

but you're lowering their hand even further. <---- my previous point.
I wasn't saying you WANT to make it harder on the infected, this is just the result.

Melee spam also won't completely work,because its such a slow method for death, so unless they want to spend 10 mins melee every single zombie to death, they're gonna have to shoot them, which they often do.

2 players in front ducking meleeing constantly, 2 players standing behind them shooting.
equivalent of godmode, really.
Maybe this is why we disagree, because when I hear closet camping this is what I imagine.

Ah, ok, pull off the "your saying how people who whine annoy you, so your now in turn, a whiner." Try playing with a better deck of cards next time rather than showing your flamboyant ignorance.

lol, flamboyant ignorance?
I guess that one's my bad, I shouldn't have made it personal or anything. I just couldn't resist.

So this explains why your post is either untrue or nonsensical.

so me not understanding some of your vague directions makes my entire post worthless then
KING OF LOGIC
when you say closet in the dead air finale do you mean the saferoom?

 

[Born]

Urrr... melee spam is quite severely dragging the gameplay of L4D down. Not melee, but melee spam. If you disagree with this, I assume that you don't spend alot of hours on the game. That, or just blatant ignorance ffs. Do you know how extremely annoying it is to try and pounce a Survivor as a Hunter when they've ran off to grab some health/ammo, only to find that they hear your growling, face your general direction, consistently bash mouse2 until you finally jump at the mofo, become stunned and die?

 

[MJ12]

It's not an exploit but it's cheap and takes the fun and challenge out of the game, especially the finale. I'd rather die and have a good time in crazy situations fighting the horde than sit on a closet and win easy. Hell, the game is most fun when everything goes tits up.

Wurd.

 

[ktimekiller]

I am ok with closet camping in campaign, but in multiplayer, its kinda lame.

 

[Operational]

No closet camping isn't an exploit but it does really need to be nerfed to the point where it's far less viable. The game is much more fun when both teams avoid it (which is most of the time I've found).
I expect that one of the major roles that the first new Special Infected will have will be to counter closet camping. I don't think it's a good idea to buff any of the other Special Infected (expect possibly the Smoker but that is a separate issue).

 

[Pesmerga]

This is only really an issue during final stands that have a house - and no one really closet camps in No Mercy. As for Death Toll and Blood Harvest, perhaps the house should be more destructible.

 

[Omnomnick]

'Corner camping is an exploit'

Quick, remove all corners from the game, all rooms MUST be round!

 

[Gordon-Shepherd]

This is only really an issue during final stands that have a house - and no one really closet camps in No Mercy.

Not on the finale, but during the waiting for the elevator bit they do so.
It isn't an exploit, but it ruins the game in vs really.

 

[Parky]

Not on the finale, but during the waiting for the elevator bit they do so.
It isn't an exploit, but it ruins the game in vs really.

tbf, smokers can disrupt closet camping very well if they do it right, usually the team go out to help them, at which point you could have a hunter join in the killing :cheese:

 

[CyberPitz]

when you say closet in the dead air finale do you mean the saferoom?

No, there is a 2 door room on the far side of the wall where two in front, two in back make the level a whole lot easier to beat.

I agree that while not completely fair, it's something that needs to be in. They just need to tweak a couple things to make it more fair.

 

[knut]

I've only come up against corner campers once, and we had kicked their ass around No Mercy right up until the finale where they all stood in the radio room with their backs to a corner and made it impossible for us to finish. These guys seriously did suck the bag, but they got through and finished the round. When we played, we died because we didn't corner camp, and didn't make it to the end even though we won with way more points.

A bit of a kick in the teeth really, but eh, what can you do.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

The problem i face is that the rest of my team always want to corner or closet camp which i class as cheating. Having 2 in front melee spamming with the other 2 behind shooting makes it bloody impossible for the infected. I prefer to fight it out, but unfortunately i increasingly keep finding people just wanting to melee spam.

 

[Sheepo]

but see, now you're talking about realism, when we're talking about balance. really, maybe if they gave the closets an extra door or something so they can't just focus on one little square and hammer melee, pausing occasionally to shoot a failed smoker attempt. It's boring, really- for all involved.

lol, I'm talking about realism in the zombie apocalypse.

I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying it's fun, useful, and completely valid.`I think Valve should make it less effective in some way, but I sure like it. And corner, as opposed to room camping, is not 100% effective.

 

[Rico]

tbf, smokers can disrupt closet camping very well if they do it right, usually the team go out to help them, at which point you could have a hunter join in the killing :cheese:

No, that's incorrect. When closet camping, they are spamming melee. What does melee do to someone snared by a smoker's tongue? That's right, it releases them. This is the problem, there is no good way for even the best infected team to break a survivor team with half a brain out of a closet camp. You always end up having to wait until they leave the area, effectively making crescendo events worthless.

Valve really needs to look at having some kind of fatigue meter on the melee, or something akin to it. Lleave closets in, whatever they want, but make it so survivors aren't impossible to get in these situations.

 

[Pesmerga]

Corner camping could easily be solved by making the players shoot each other when they stand inside one another. I don't think a lot of people would be very agreeable to being shot constantly, even if the difficultly is Normal.

 

[Sheepo]

That's a pretty good idea. It wouldn't solve it entirely, but the survivors couldn't occupy one tiny space together.

 

[AmishSlayer]

I think they could combat this by making the AI director punish camping by adding extra tank spawns rather than the scripted ones between horde rushes.

There are some things in the game that are exploits essentially. At the finale of Blood Harvest, if you all hold back against the corner of the room right next to the ammo/guns/medkits, you clip through each other and all stand in the same spot. When you shoot, you don't hit your allies and you rarely get touched. The ammo is within reach and you don't even have to move. Also, when the tank comes everybody stays still and unloads point blank autoshotty shells into the tank as he swipes. The melee swipes only hit one person maybe once or twice before the tank is dead. It takes like 3-4 seconds to kill it. It's a quick run to where the APC parks out that back door and there's virtually no risk the whole time.

 

[Fiberawptic]

So the people that are against closet camping recommend we do what exactly instead? Stand by the ammo and weapons and try to fight off the zombies there? I suppose thats pretty reasonable, im thinking of like the death toll crescendo in the small town. See the thing about what makes the zombies so damn frustrating, is they swarm you like bees in this game and completely surround you. If im busy taking care of zombies in front of me, the 10 that are behind me are hitting me and lowering my health drastically and i'll be incapped in seconds. Now with teamwork, that could be somewhat lessened.

A few things to keep in mind, when people play a map over and over again on Expert, they generally like to beat it and setting up a way to make survivng the hordes easier is pretty understandable. Closet camping seems like a typical way of defending against zombies on a more extreme level. Because usually, you end up holding down 2 or 3 passage in front of you (if you do it the so called 'fair' way by weapons/ammo) but theres usually a wall behind you so you dont have to watch your back, like closet camping but much less confined and more open.

Now i won't argue against making things fairer for the infected in versus when it comes to closet camping, because there is hardly anything they can do during that time. I think maybe instead of making it so the infected players jump back when meleed, they should just loose a lot of damage, but still be able to attack back. Then they could just run in the closet and scratch the survivors which does a good deal of damage. But i think the melee should be kept the same, because its great for the regular horde when they completely surround the survivors.

 

[SamuraiKenji]

It's simple really
No need to get your nickers in a knot
Just make houses more destructible

 

[Jintor]

I think Closet Camping is at its worst in Versus. I'm not against it in Campaign because yes it is one of the greatest chances you have, but in Versus it's borderline cheating. Someone had the idea of having the AI Director have a random chance of spawning a tank for closet campers, but even something as simple as being able to shoot one another if you're occupying the same space or making more destroyable sections of the cupboard (I'm thinking mainly of the cupboard next to the elevator in Mercy) would do.

On the other hand, infected frequently win even if the survivors don't closet camp, so really hah who knows.