Combine Vs. Xen - the final solution

[Langolier]

Did you read the first post?

Yeah, I did. I don't seem to recall anyone saying the whole story was fleshed out. Just the over-all story. The details are still left unwritten or un-spoken so that the team has the liberty of changing things as they go along to fit as nicely as possible into the game.

Actualy, Xen and Combine Earth are almost completely different IMO.

"In My Opinion" Brilliant!

They do, they just need a rediculous amount of power to do so. And they may have other boarder worlds under their control as far as we no.

Xen, from what Laidlaw has told us a border world for many dimensions. Perhaps the border world for all. So that would make it a bit important if it is, wouldn't it? As others have said; if the Combine has free control of Xen, then why aren't they teleporting troops into rebel strongholds left and right?

He was examining the HECU troops, he was seen talking to an officer and he is the only civilian the HECU didn't target. I'd say he was more than involved. I'd say he organised the attack, maybe even had something to do with the founding of the HECU.

He was seen watching a few men do push-ups, and apparantly watching Shephard at one point. We don't really know if Shephard was at all important to him prior to the Black Mesa Incident. He may have been watching every soldier durring training and he may have been writing reports on every employee in Black Mesa. You assume too much. (and I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you aren't neccessarily right either)

>_>
<_<

Perhaps you would elaborate on the specific aspect of this note that you found offensive? Or are you just going to make retarded faces instead and hide from it?

So far as we know Bobo the Clown killed off half the Vortigaunts in BM. The lack of being seen by 5 people over 3 days in a masive facility doesn't meen he wasn't there.

Bobo the Clown has absolutely no relevance to Half-Life. I would say that the Administrator of Black Mesa being revealed in HL2, not just by name, but as the head bad-guy in the game, is quite important, wouldn't you? If it was just a coincidence, then that is pretty poor writing on Laidlaw's part. Why not just make up a new character entirely?

You think the UN and American Government sat back and watched the Portal Storms? They got someone who knew about these aliens and got him into the government, thus giving him the ability to negotioate with the Combine if they contacted the government, which I believe they did.

It is possible. It's also possible that the sabatoge we heard about was exactly what it sounded like too; sabatoge. It's possible then that the man who was pushing so hard to have the sabatoged experiment go along had something to gain from it. Though, once again, you could be right. ...but you have no way to prove it and your only justification for it is that: Breen's position in HL2 is a coincidence.

What? What does portals between Xen and Earth have to do with the Combines lack of local teleports?

I apparantly didn't read the first post, and you haven't played any of the games. It works like this you see: You cannot just teleport from point A.) on earth, to point B.) on earth. Point B.) is on Xen, and you must go there first and then to point C.) on Earth. The Xen relay twists the tunnel or whatever so that it carries you through Xen and back to Earth in another location without stopping. As opposed to those portals that Adrian went through where he would step inside, wind up in Xen, and then have to walk for a minute or two before reaching another portal that transmitted him back to Earth a few feet away from where he first departed to Xen. The Combine it seems do not know how to use the Relay system, or cannot use it, maybe because someone else is controlling Xen. Who knows, but they are required instead to forcefully tunnel through directly from their own Universe to ours. (possibly they must do this for any Universe they enter) It would seem that their way is less efficient because once they reach another universe, say, Earth, they must then rely on local/conventional transportation to get around. Xenians in HL1 (particularly Opposing Force) could Warp into Earth, and then if they needed to get up a ledge (or hop into a different trolly) teleport right over to it. The Combine would be SOL.

Maybe it was a coincidence or maybe they were traking the Xenians seeing as they had a previous history together.

Could be.

 

[ríomhaire]

I apparantly didn't read the first post, and you haven't played any of the games. It works like this you see: You cannot just teleport from point A.) on earth, to point B.) on earth. Point B.) is on Xen, and you must go there first and then to point C.) on Earth. The Xen relay twists the tunnel or whatever so that it carries you through Xen and back to Earth in another location without stopping. As opposed to those portals that Adrian went through where he would step inside, wind up in Xen, and then have to walk for a minute or two before reaching another portal that transmitted him back to Earth a few feet away from where he first departed to Xen. The Combine it seems do not know how to use the Relay system, or cannot use it, maybe because someone else is controlling Xen. Who knows, but they are required instead to forcefully tunnel through directly from their own Universe to ours. (possibly they must do this for any Universe they enter) It would seem that their way is less efficient because once they reach another universe, say, Earth, they must then rely on local/conventional transportation to get around. Xenians in HL1 (particularly Opposing Force) could Warp into Earth, and then if they needed to get up a ledge (or hop into a different trolly) teleport right over to it. The Combine would be SOL.

Yes I know all that but you were talking about Nihily holding open a portal and the Portal Storms and then went off on a tangent about the Combine not being able to local teleport.

 

[Llama]

Xen, from what Laidlaw has told us a border world for many dimensions. Perhaps the border world for all. So that would make it a bit important if it is, wouldn't it? As others have said; if the Combine has free control of Xen, then why aren't they teleporting troops into rebel strongholds left and right?

Becasue they dont have control of Xen Besides, every universe is simultaneously linked to every other Universe in existence. Each method of Teleportation simply provides a different means of access between Universes.


He was seen watching a few men do push-ups, and apparantly watching Shephard at one point. We don't really know if Shephard was at all important to him prior to the Black Mesa Incident. He may have been watching every soldier durring training and he may have been writing reports on every employee in Black Mesa. You assume too much. (and I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you aren't neccessarily right either)

It is widely assumed that the G-man is not as he is portrayed in HL: OF. Moot point


Bobo the Clown has absolutely no relevance to Half-Life. I would say that the Administrator of Black Mesa being revealed in HL2, not just by name, but as the head bad-guy in the game, is quite important, wouldn't you? If it was just a coincidence, then that is pretty poor writing on Laidlaw's part. Why not just make up a new character entirely?

Because Breen (Being the former Admin of BMRF) was put in a position of power (Throug his knowledge) almost immediatly, it makes logicalk sense that an inteligent man that could gain power would take the chance. Remember, he is not a "bad guy", he is simply acting in the way he feels is right for humanity

It is possible. It's also possible that the sabatoge we heard about was exactly what it sounded like too; sabatoge. It's possible then that the man who was pushing so hard to have the sabatoged experiment go along had something to gain from it. Though, once again, you could be right. ...but you have no way to prove it and your only justification for it is that: Breen's position in HL2 is a coincidence.

Read above.

I apparantly didn't read the first post, and you haven't played any of the games. It works like this you see: You cannot just teleport from point A.) on earth, to point B.) on earth. Point B.) is on Xen, and you must go there first and then to point C.) on Earth. The Xen relay twists the tunnel or whatever so that it carries you through Xen and back to Earth in another location without stopping. As opposed to those portals that Adrian went through where he would step inside, wind up in Xen, and then have to walk for a minute or two before reaching another portal that transmitted him back to Earth a few feet away from where he first departed to Xen. The Combine it seems do not know how to use the Relay system, or cannot use it, maybe because someone else is controlling Xen. Who knows, but they are required instead to forcefully tunnel through directly from their own Universe to ours. (possibly they must do this for any Universe they enter) It would seem that their way is less efficient because once they reach another universe, say, Earth, they must then rely on local/conventional transportation to get around. Xenians in HL1 (particularly Opposing Force) could Warp into Earth, and then if they needed to get up a ledge (or hop into a different trolly) teleport right over to it. The Combine would be SOL.


Wrong. The portals Shepard used are exactly the same as local portals. The only difference is that the ones he used were not controlled externally to reach a certian destination, so they wouldnt loop round again.

 

[Langolier]

Becasue they dont have control of Xen Besides, every universe is simultaneously linked to every other Universe in existence. Each method of Teleportation simply provides a different means of access between Universes.

I would agree: the Combine likely do not have control of Xen. The universes may be connected, but it would seem that Xen is the easiest to reach from Earth and any other universes that boarder it.

It is widely assumed that the G-man is not as he is portrayed in HL: OF. Moot point

My grandmother once told me that assuming makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me". I think that might have been the best advice she ever gave me.

Because Breen (Being the former Admin of BMRF) was put in a position of power (Throug his knowledge) almost immediatly, it makes logicalk sense that an inteligent man that could gain power would take the chance. Remember, he is not a "bad guy", he is simply acting in the way he feels is right for humanity

She had this rule too: 1.) Grandma is always right. 2.) If Grandma is wrong, see rule 1.)

Read above.

You do the same, please.

Wrong. The portals Shepard used are exactly the same as local portals. The only difference is that the ones he used were not controlled externally to reach a certian destination, so they wouldnt loop round again.

Wrong. The local teleports let you bypass that little walking trip in Xen. That's the whole point to them. Well, as not to stray from my own reasoning: From what I gather, the local teleports, such as the ones we saw in the Lambda Labs are made to bypass the walking parts in Xen. I suppose they could be referring to something else entirely. Perhaps the ones Adrian used were just very primitive versions.

 

[Eejit]

*mutter* Nobody ever mentions my genius explanations for how the Combine could have found out about Earth. And it's right in this thread.

 

[ríomhaire]

*mutter* Nobody ever mentions my genius explanations for how the Combine could have found out about Earth. And it's right in this thread.

Post your own damn theories, sorry, on edge at the moment.

 

[Laivasse]

I don't even see how the Combine discovered earth is relevant to either theory. How did we discover Xen? How did Gman hear about what was going on at BM? Who cares? It's fun to work out a theory, but saying "ragh, if Combine weren't on Xen then how did they discover earth?" doesn't mean anything.

 

[Eejit]

Post your own damn theories, sorry, on edge at the moment.

I've noticed. Chill.
Anyway I did post it. Myself.

 

[Llama]

Wrong. The local teleports let you bypass that little walking trip in Xen. That's the whole point to them. Well, as not to stray from my own reasoning: From what I gather, the local teleports, such as the ones we saw in the Lambda Labs are made to bypass the walking parts in Xen. I suppose they could be referring to something else entirely. Perhaps the ones Adrian used were just very primitive versions.

Just because a teleport uses Xen as a slingshot doesn't mean it cant take you there. There is a reason the human Teleporters sent you to Xen, its because the BM personnel where researching Xen at the time.

Thats like saying that because a plane can take me from Birmingham to Florida without me catching a seperate plane in Boston as a pit-stop, I will never take a journey in which I go from Birmingham to Boston to Florida. Even though I have.


BTW, Grandmothers are often wrong.

 

[little.rebel]

Here

The Combine are the big master, nihilanth was thier representative on xen, like breen is it on earth.

The Combine race invaded Xen along time ago, it enslaved and plundered it, ust like its done to earth, and turned it into another world of death slavery and factory of its legions of death. As we see before we get to the nililanth.

IT is the Greater Threat, it is the big master it has representatives or controllers on the worlds it crushes, who are the lesser master like breen and nihilanth.
Nihilanth was the lesser master on Xen, and Dr.Freeman took him down.

The G-man is NOT A COMBINE OR A BOUNTY HUNTER, sorry mr.combine lovers but you are completely ignorant if you think that is true. (Its about time you brought yourself to your senses aand realised what they actually are and stand for.)

G-man is most likely a member of an Alien race, who like humans (now rebels)are at War with the combine. That is why he is friendly to you, friendly to and helps the resistance on earth and makes broadcasts on television undermining the combine and letting the rebels on earth know they are not alone. the rebels vautagaunt said to Freeman ' we serve the same mystery' i.e. the G-man.
Member of a race with unequalled technology, incredible teleport technology. His race may be one of a group all at war with the combine empire. These may be his employers, and decide where Gordon and others like him are used and when.

If anyone is bounty hunter, its gordon freeman and shephard etc.

But they dont do it for money or power. They do it for the cause of thier own people, once they see what a desperate circumstance they are in and the suffereing of thier own people. this is true as Gordon sees this with his own eyes, if vengance comes in it, its the vengance of a man who was betrayed by his own boss (Dr.Breen) who also blamed him forsomething he diddnt do. When actually , he, Dr Breen, gave the earth to an enemy monster, for the benefit of his own wellbeing and satisfaction.

And Dr. Breen is the complete traitor of his own kind, who has conspired with and engineered the invasion by combine empire. He SURRENDERED EARTH, PREMEDITATED. GAVE IT ON A SILVER PLATE, TO THE WHYMN OF THE BIGGEST INTERGALACTIC TYRANT EVER IMAGINABLE.

ONLY CARED ABOUT HIMSELF AND HIS GIFTS FROM THE COMBINE, (HIS INTERDIMENSIONAL TRAVEL HOLIDAY AND PRECIOUS QUALITY TIME and ofcourse POWER OVER EVERY LIVING THING, except his bosses, the big fat combine tyrant).

AS HE reveals his true colours, he even has contempt for his own species and willingly wants to kill us as much as the combine empire does. He engineered the holocaust and enslavement of humanity on earth with the combine.
His braodcasts are absolute braincontrolling crap giving complete mind controlling persuation to desperate people to make them give in basically.

And hes good at turning weak minds to his way, thats how he persuaded every nation on earth to give in.

The Combine on earth are not glorious, they are the cheap mimik of earths previous military, 'combined' with combine augmentation filth, and turned into nothing more than soulless slaves and death. They are walking dead men, who only task is to kill all life on earth. The combine actually doesnt even care about its own soldiers, they just will do thier job , kill thier own kind, kill the human race and all resistance n all forms, and pick earth to the bone.
And if these augmented slaves are not good enough at extinguishing thier planet and crushing resistance, "they will be purged along with every other unworthy branch of the species" - Dr.Breen .

That is the glorious combine empire in one single quote.


The Alien alliance and other rebels which stand against the ultimate tyrant, therefore need the best methods of fighting the combine.

My guess is that the Aliens were on earth along time before any of the recent years, since before black mesa even.

They had travelled here maybe hundereds of years ago.

They can (or G-man) assumes human form, and had been working looking at our entry into the world of civilisations with the tele-technology.

They must have known all about blackmesa, G-man worked in earths own most powerful governmant for the research.

They knew about Breen, the combine and what was comming. The Sh!tstorm.

They knew Breen was anarsehole, that he had contacted and conspired with the combine, and that he would cause the cascade, and that he would hand earth over. HL1 quote "we tried to warn them" "we tried to tell them but the administrator just would not listen"

Therefore with earth in dire straights, they needed to do something. They cose the very guy who, had "caused it" at the centre of it. A scientist and physist who would
be knowledgable and determined (and in a HEV SUIT)for the task ahead.

They could not save earth from itself, but using freeman they struck a massive blow on Xen.

Earth now had its turn. Freeman is used again to topple a combine associate and destroy its grip on a world. The seven hour war was hopeless, earth could not be saved from its own mistakes, and bad leadership.

Now after the crisis the combine had setteled down nicely and was taking it easy as it picked earth to the bone, lounging on its latest kill. It had forgot all about freeman, they probally thought he was dead.
Humans meanwhile had been sorted, the men from the maggots after 7 years of combine domination, the free of will and strong of body & spirit ready to rise up waiting for one thing to show them how, thier Messiah. kliners new teleport finally working, what a perfect time to send him back..

Freeman definately the best weapon in the rebel arsenal. He does it again and earth awaits its next thing after destroying breens supercitadel.


Freeman may not know all of what has happened but he has certainly got a good idea now.

As for the combine they will float around with thier big fat bodies until thier intergalactic interdimensional disgrace is finally stopped.

As for freeman, his next escapades after earth maybe one of the alien worlds or maybe even the combine homeworld.

freeman is da man. and he will kick ass.

hope shepard comes back as a version of rambo and also kick butt.


Anyway somethings are for certain.

EARTH IS FINALLY AWAKE. -DR.FREEMAN HAS OPENED THE WAY.

THE MOVEMENT IS ALIVE, AND ITS FOUNDATIONS ARE ROCK SOLID!

 

[Langolier]

Just because a teleport uses Xen as a slingshot doesn't mean it cant take you there. There is a reason the human Teleporters sent you to Xen, its because the BM personnel where researching Xen at the time.

Thats like saying that because a plane can take me from Birmingham to Florida without me catching a seperate plane in Boston as a pit-stop, I will never take a journey in which I go from Birmingham to Boston to Florida. Even though I have.


BTW, Grandmothers are often wrong.

See rule 1.)

No. They go to Xen whether you want them to or not. Did you ever play Blue Shift? That's how they discovered Xen. They were trying to teleport to locations on earth but it wasn't working. It wasn't working because objects were ending up in the boarder world. In the world of HL you cannot teleport from place to place within your own universe it seems. You can only teleport to the boarderworld(s) and from there to another location in your starting universe. The Xen relay allows us (humanity) to teleport from place to place on earth by 'slingshotting' through Xen. (That's the impression I got)

 

[Llama]

For a start, THE COMBINE DID NOT INVADE XEN! which is what this entire topic is based on.

"No. They go to Xen whether you want them to or not. Did you ever play Blue Shift? That's how they discovered Xen. They were trying to teleport to locations on earth but it wasn't working. It wasn't working because objects were ending up in the boarder world. In the world of HL you cannot teleport from place to place within your own universe it seems. You can only teleport to the boarderworld(s) and from there to another location in your starting universe. The Xen relay allows us (humanity) to teleport from place to place on earth by 'slingshotting' through Xen. (That's the impression I got)"

Wrong. The local teleports let you bypass that little walking trip in Xen. That's the whole point to them. Well, as not to stray from my own reasoning: From what I gather, the local teleports, such as the ones we saw in the Lambda Labs are made to bypass the walking parts in Xen. I suppose they could be referring to something else entirely. Perhaps the ones Adrian used were just very primitive versions.

The entire Xen Slingshot is used so that you do not have to go through Xen to get wherever you want, you 'bounce off' of the borderworld. Have you actually played HL?
In the Lambda Complex level, there are a pair of Teleports in a room seperated by a wall. You step in one and pop out the other. You don't appear to have to travel through Xen in those. Guess why? Because Local Teleportation bounces you off the border world.
Blue Shift is not considered Cannnon, as there is never mention of the machine used in the "Focal Point" section of BS when palying HL2. Also, you do not meet any of the other scientists Barney travelled with.

Just one last point. Angry Lawyer and his "Cronies" know a hell of a lot more about these games than you do. Keep that in mind before you call them arrogant

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Crikey, you've just repeated every single falsifiable point in the Combine-Xen standpoint.

Explain to me why nothing on Xen actually looks like anything the Combine use in HL2? And why the Combine can't teleport locally, while Nihilanth, whom you say was their pawn, can teleport things wily-nily.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Llama]

Im not sure who that was aimed at (hopefully not me ) but whoever it was aimed at just got owned. Hardcore style

 

[Sulkdodds]

Blue Shift is not considered Cannnon

Erm, yes. Yes it is.

Just one last point. Angry Lawyer and his "Cronies" know a hell of a lot more about these games than you do. Keep that in mind before you call them arrogant

Oh the irony. "Don't call us arrogant because we know moer than you."

The Combine are the big master, nihilanth was thier representative on xen, like breen is it on earth. The Combine race invaded Xen along time ago, it enslaved and plundered it, ust like its done to earth, and turned it into another world of death slavery and factory of its legions of death. As we see before we get to the nililanth.

No, we don't see. It looks completely different. Is that the only point you've got to support your argument? Much as it annoys me when people condescendingly scream 'OMFG READ THE THREAD' only to find out that the person concerned actually did, it does seem to me that you don't appear to have read the last dozen or so pages.

The Combine on earth are not glorious, RANT RANT RANT

Holy shit. What is this, the politics forum?

Nihilanth, whom you say was their pawn, can teleport things wily-nily.

This is A Big Thing. As has already been said, Nihilanth looks very much stiched-together, biomodified, built or whatever. Now if the Combine weren't on Xen before Half-Life, then we assume that the Controllers 'built' or 'grew' him as their leader. But if the Combine were on Xen before HL1 then it would have been they that built Nihilanth - or at least they would have understood the technology, being their own puppet dictator and all. Which begs the question of why, when Freeman took him out, they couldn't just build another one. They don't have the same level teleportation tech the Xenians do.

EDIT: QUOTE WARS? NOOOOOOO!

 

[Llama]

Oh the irony. "Don't call us arrogant because we know moer than you."

/quote]

Sorry, old chap

This is A Big Thing. As has already been said, Nihilanth looks very much stiched-together, biomodified, built or whatever. Now if the Combine weren't on Xen before Half-Life, then we assume that the Controllers 'built' or 'grew' him as their leader. But if the Combine were on Xen before HL1 then it would have been they that built Nihilanth - or at least they would have understood the technology, being their own puppet dictator and all. Which begs the question of why, when Freeman took him out, they couldn't just build another one. They don't have the same level teleportation tech the Xenians do.
/quote]

Maybe whatever built / modified the Nihilanth no longer has the knowledge of how they did It. Like the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40K, who seemingly rely on old Technology they have little knowlodge about.
This begs another point. Who says another Nihilanth HASN'T been built? It could be that an attack by Xenains (or rather, the Xenains that can be controlled, Alien Slaves are completly free)

Several theories ongoing atm, so bear with me

 

[Eejit]

I'd like to point out that the teleport machine used in BS was not cutting-edge BM technology, it was older equipment. I believe that that is why it requires the device on Xen to be switched on and calibrated whereas there's no mention of that with Lambda teleportation or in HL2.

Of course maybe the Gman made the portals in the Lambda core

 

[jerkasaur]

what's happening to this thread? it gets stickied, moved, critisized, again stickied...

 

[ríomhaire]

The G-man is NOT A COMBINE OR A BOUNTY HUNTER, sorry mr.combine lovers but you are completely ignorant if you think that is true.

Oh sweet lady irony!

(Its about time you brought yourself to your senses aand realised what they actually are and stand for.)

I suppose you know for a fact? I suppose Marc Laidlaw and Gabe Newell told you the entire story and then made sweet love to you making you omnipotent to all matters HL?

If anyone is bounty hunter, its gordon freeman and shephard etc.

But they dont do it for money or power. They do it for the cause of thier own people...

Do you even have a f*cking clue what a bounty hunter is?

And Dr. Breen is the complete traitor of his own kind, who has conspired with and engineered the invasion by combine empire.

YES, OMNIPOTENT MASTER WHO KNOWS SWEET F*CKING ALL ABOUT THE HL WORLD, PRAISE US WITH YOUR FACTS!
(In case you couldn't notice(Wouldn't put it past you) I was being sarcastic)

He SURRENDERED EARTH, PREMEDITATED

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT SURRENDERING DURING A WAR YOU WERE LOSING WAS CONSIDERED PREMEMTIVE!

GAVE IT ON A SILVER PLATE, TO THE WHYMN OF THE BIGGEST INTERGALACTIC TYRANT EVER IMAGINABLE.

WELL YOU DON'T JUST SPIT IN THE FACE OF THE ONES WHO WILL ANIHILATE YOU UNLESS YOU GROVIL!

ONLY CARED ABOUT HIMSELF AND HIS GIFTS FROM THE COMBINE, (HIS INTERDIMENSIONAL TRAVEL HOLIDAY AND PRECIOUS QUALITY TIME and ofcourse POWER OVER EVERY LIVING THING, except his bosses, the big fat combine tyrant).

THANK YOU FOR READING DR. BREEN'S MIND MY PHYSCIC MASTER OF ALL THINGS HL!

AS HE reveals his true colours, he even has contempt for his own species and willingly wants to kill

Willingly want's? WTF ARE YOU ON ABOUT?

us as much as the combine empire does. He engineered the holocaust and enslavement of humanity on earth with the combine.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR KNOWLEDGE OFF THINGS NEVER SAID IN THE F*CKING GAME!

His braodcasts are absolute braincontrolling crap giving complete mind controlling persuation to desperate people to make them give in basically.

OR MAYBE HE IS TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM OF WHAT HE BELIEVES!

And hes good at turning weak minds to his way, thats how he persuaded every nation on earth to give in.

I THINK THE FACT THAT THE COMBINE WERE DESIMATING THEIR ARMIES MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT!

The Combine on earth are not glorious...BLAHBLAHBLAH

NO F*CKING SHIT SHERLOCK!

The Alien alliance and other rebels which stand against the ultimate tyrant, therefore need the best methods of fighting the combine.

My guess is that the Aliens were on earth along time before any of the recent years, since before black mesa even.

They had travelled here maybe hundereds of years ago.

They can (or G-man) assumes human form, and had been working looking at our entry into the world of civilisations with the tele-technology.

They must have known all about blackmesa, G-man worked in earths own most powerful governmant for the research.

They knew about Breen, the combine and what was comming. The Sh!tstorm.

They knew Breen was anarsehole, that he had contacted and conspired with the combine, and that he would cause the cascade, and that he would hand earth over.

Well at least you are stating that as theory at least.

HL1 quote "we tried to warn them" "we tried to tell them but the administrator just would not listen"

Sorry but they actualy had nothing to worry over because of the dampening field locks(Decay) which were sabatoged(not necisarrily by Breen)

Now after the crisis the combine had setteled down nicely and was taking it easy as it picked earth to the bone, lounging on its latest kill. It had forgot all about freeman, they probally thought he was dead.

Which is of course why every rebel knew about him and why he had a (to quote Dr. Breen) "Messianic reputaion" :/

As for the combine they will float around with thier big fat bodies until thier intergalactic interdimensional disgrace is finally stopped.

Not likly to happen any time soon.

As for freeman, his next escapades after earth maybe one of the alien worlds or maybe even the combine homeworld.

Or maybe fighting for the Combine...

freeman is da man. and he will kick ass.

Wow, my respect for all your theories just skyrocketed...

hope shepard comes back as a version of rambo and also kick butt.

They're so high now, my respect is almost palpable :|


Er...I think that may have gotten rid of my anger for the time being. That must have been why I was on edge, no good oldfashoned argueing

 

[Eejit]

Wow Ríomhaire anger actually effects your spelling


Hehe, I get annoyed at muppet-posters too though

 

[ríomhaire]

Wow Ríomhaire anger actually effects your spelling

For some reason I can't stop laughing at that

 

[jerkasaur]

ah well, i've never been good in spelling myself neather...

 

[James T]

"Blue Shift is not considered Cannnon"

"Erm, yes. Yes it is."

Since when is Blue Shift canon?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Since when wasn't it? Burden of proof's on you there.

 

[CyberPitz]

now what the hell is a cannon?

PS, this thread was a good 30 min read...weee

 

[Sulkdodds]

Canon = part of official storyline. I don't see how Blue Shift isn't canon. It was released officially, a single-player expansion pack, and as far as I know there's nothing to suggest it isn't. Some people say Opposing Force isn't canon but that's misinterpretation of a Marc Laidlaw quote which actually says 'opposing force is fully official but it's more of a side-thing than an integral part of the story, so you probably won't be seeing Race-X again.'

Or alternatively:

 

[ríomhaire]

The following are cannon
Half-Life 1
Half-Life 1: Opposing Force
Half-Life 1: Decay
Half-Life 1: Blue Shift
Half-Life 2
Half-Life 2: Aftermath(when realesed)

 

[James T]

Oh? Considering Blue Shift was a peripheral addition to the series, created by a company other than Valve, and given no mention in Half-Life 2, I'd say it's on you.

While I don't think Valve have ever outright rejected Gearbox's additions to continuity, there isn't a speck of Opposing Force or Blue Shift to be found in Half-Life 2. No mention from Kleiner, Vance or Barney about Black Mesa being nuked (I doubt they'd be so far away from the facility by then that they wouldn't notice); no mention of Xen, or of Dr Rosenburg by Barney (not that the Barney in City 17 is necessarily the Barney of Blue Shift, but if Blue Shift were being regarded at all by Valve, then surely he would be); no sign of Race X; no sign of Shepard. Opposing Force was a potentially huge addition to HL's mythology, but nothing within it got even a veiled reference in HL2 -- that suggests to me that, at best, OpFor is insignificant to Valve's narrative, so why would Gearbox's other, smaller creation not be?

The other reason I don't think OpFor or Blue Shift are considered 'canon' by Valve is that in interviews, Gabe/Mark/whoever else often speak of seeing absolutely everything in the Half-Life series through Gordon Freeman's eyes, of 'being' him; he never says a word in-game, because the reactions are all yours. This jibes heavily with the idea of playing Barney Calhoun, Adrian Shepard, or hell, while we're at it, Bob Dewey, Black Mesa Janitor (remember that mod? Heh). I'm sure Valve are 'polite' enough not to actively contradict the licensed mods, but they haven't shown any indication of actively taking the events of OpFor and Blue Shift into their narrative at all.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

There's a difference between canon and mainstream plot. Apparently, the events happened, but none of them are large enough to impact the central storyline.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Sulkdodds]

...Blue Shift was a peripheral addition to the series, created by a company other than Valve, and given no mention in Half-Life 2...

A peripheral addition to the series set within the same universe, following the same events and wider 'storyline'. Created by a company other than Valve but working very closely with Valve and with their approval. Given no mention in Half-Life 2, but then niether is much in HL1 apart from 'the black mesa incident' which is in both OP4 and BS. They released it and sold it, for money, as part of the HL1 storyline. Surely that suggests that it's canon until someone says explicity otherwise? (that was badly put by me but meh.)

Are you saying that we can't take anything in the expansion packs as fact? That because events in them aren't actively and directly signifigant to the sequel they didn't 'happen' (I mean obviously they didn't happen. It's a game..or is it? D?

EDIT: What AL said too.

 

[bigburpco]

Or alternatively:

:|

...

Wow?

 

[ríomhaire]

Oh? Considering Blue Shift was a peripheral addition to the series, created by a company other than Valve, and given no mention in Half-Life 2, I'd say it's on you.

While I don't think Valve have ever outright rejected Gearbox's additions to continuity, there isn't a speck of Opposing Force or Blue Shift to be found in Half-Life 2. No mention from Kleiner, Vance or Barney about Black Mesa being nuked (I doubt they'd be so far away from the facility by then that they wouldn't notice); no mention of Xen, or of Dr Rosenburg by Barney (not that the Barney in City 17 is necessarily the Barney of Blue Shift, but if Blue Shift were being regarded at all by Valve, then surely he would be); no sign of Race X; no sign of Shepard. Opposing Force was a potentially huge addition to HL's mythology, but nothing within it got even a veiled reference in HL2 -- that suggests to me that, at best, OpFor is insignificant to Valve's narrative, so why would Gearbox's other, smaller creation not be?

The other reason I don't think OpFor or Blue Shift are considered 'canon' by Valve is that in interviews, Gabe/Mark/whoever else often speak of seeing absolutely everything in the Half-Life series through Gordon Freeman's eyes, of 'being' him; he never says a word in-game, because the reactions are all yours. This jibes heavily with the idea of playing Barney Calhoun, Adrian Shepard, or hell, while we're at it, Bob Dewey, Black Mesa Janitor (remember that mod? Heh). I'm sure Valve are 'polite' enough not to actively contradict the licensed mods, but they haven't shown any indication of actively taking the events of OpFor and Blue Shift into their narrative at all.

Read the HL2 Credits. 2 words appear
BARNEY CALHOUN
That alone shows that Barney is the Blue Shift barney. And they are offical Half-Life games not 'licensed mods' as you refer to them as.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Also, Laidlaw worked with Gearbox to make sure they didn't do anything contrary to his preplanned storyline.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[James T]

There's a difference between canon and mainstream plot. Apparently, the events happened, but none of them are large enough to impact the central storyline.

-Angry Lawyer

Well, until either of the side-stories get any kind of acknowledgment in the ongoing series, there won't be much of a difference. Perhaps 'uncanonical' is too strong (not to mention unusual!) a word, but I would not count on any of the teleport mechanics or other mythology from BS or OF having any kind of heft in regards to continuity later in the piece (mind you, that does remain to be seen), unless they were accepted-but-abandoned concepts for the original Half-Life introduced to the Gearbox crew by Laidlaw.

If Blue-Shift-Barney and Adrian and Race X and so on were all ideas dreamed up by Valve, and then they said, "Gosh, it'd be great to include these ideas into the mythology somehow -- Gearbox, could you make some games around these concepts, sticking strictly to these narrative guidelines here?", then I'd consider them to be more reliably canonical. Does anyone know who pitched to whom, when OF and BS were yet to come about?

If OF and BS are 'operating' parts of the canon, then there are currently a lot of 'unfired guns' lying around, to warp Chekhov's adage a bit (you know, 'If a gun is introduced in the first act, it must be fired by the end of the play'). OpFor suggests (AFAICS) that multiple alien worlds are embroiled in the resonance cascade/portal storm -- thus, surely if the Gearbox titles were an operating part of the Half-Life mythos, there'd be some Shockroaches, Pit Drones, Voltigores, maybe a Pit Worm, to be found in HL2; instead, it's all Xen aliens (with the possible exception of antlions, which do look quite Race-X-esque, but which weren't in OpFor, so there's nothing to go on there). Sure, Race X could come back in HL3 or later, but I don't think it narratively likely that Valve would throw a race of enemies from a side-story back into the fray if they weren't going to preserve some degree of player-awareness of the race throughout intervening games (ie, HL2). And if the 'unfired guns' of the Gearbox games are going to remain unused by Valve, then it's only fair to think that Valve doesn't take Gearbox's input into the mythos very seriously.

 

[Apocalypse89]

but I would not count on any of the teleport mechanics or other mythology from BS or OF having any kind of heft in regards to continuity later in the piece (mind you, that does remain to be seen),

The whole 'using Xen as a relay/slingshot' mechanic, which IIRC is never referenced to in HL1, is directly mentioned in HL2.

And there's that whole thing with both BS and HL2 Barney having the same last name.

 

[ríomhaire]

If you actualy pay attecntion, Blue Shift but more so Opposing Force and Decay provide very important plot details. IE RC was defentatly not an accident, the g-man had othority with the HECU, what the HECU was, Black Mesa is gone. Shows much more of the scientists examining Xen(and Race-X is you must demand they aren't Xenian) species

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Yeah, the whole teleport and xen trip part of Blue Shift was Laidlaw-stuff right? That makes it cannon in my book.

 

[Laivasse]

I kind of come down on the side of James T on this one. While AL is right that there is a difference between something being canon, and something affecting the main story, when it comes to HL2 where the story is still so nebulous that we're all still scraping the barrel trying to make sense of what's what, then that difference is very small.

OK, the stuff in OP4 happened, accepted. But what I mean is, in a game-world where you're often relying on one line of dialogue from a character to understand a certain piece of background or the story in general, if Laidlaw then says that a certain series of events doesn't really affect anything - well, then it's veery close to saying it never happened. As such, when people say "ah, the Gman must be working for so-and-so because he did blah blah in OP4", or "the resonance cascade must have been this-and-this because so-and-so said 'merh meerh' in Decay" then I get all squirmy and uncomfortable. Because once you say stuff like that, you're taking the expansions as having an effect on the larger, main storyline. Right?

 

[Ennui]

Opposing Force and Blue Shift, I say, are canon, but not integral to the storyline (excepting perhaps Black Mesa being nuked) and it doesn't matter much.

 

[Polaris]

And also Xen Attacks (part of PS2 Half-Life) is cannon...