Combine Vs. Xen - the final solution

[UltimaApocalypse]

The creatures are part of the story. I don't want to argue this again but I'm just going to say this.
DEACY, BLUE SHITF AND OPPOSING FORCE ARE OFFICAL HALF-LIFE GAMES, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THEM HAPPENED, PERIOD.

Uh oh, you posted in caps. I guess you win the arguement.

Valve will never use the extra monsters from Opposing Force, if they ever do, I'll join the Vortigaunt revoultion myself.

 

[Krabjuice]

So what if they don't use Race X. They didn't use bullsquids, gargs, controllers, cockroaches, tentacles, houndeyes, eels, gibbable scientists, snarks, or grunts (Of all kinds). OP4 is still Half-life, just like those screaming gibbable scientists are Half-life.

Bingo.

*pelvic thrust*

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Bingo.

Basically, everything in the expansions is official. Race-X were just a one-shot enemy contained in a single game.

 

[Jandor]

Uh oh, you posted in caps. I guess you win the arguement.

Valve will never use the extra monsters from Opposing Force, if they ever do, I'll join the Vortigaunt revoultion myself.

Actually, he is right, so he does .

 

[AMGames09]

I'm sorry if something similar was posted before, or if many of these things were already established, but here's my theory:

It's already very clear that the combine were not at xen. However, although I found some theories about the G-Man's relationship to the combine intrigueing, I doubt that he has anything to do with them. I agree that the resonance cascade was caused by him, simply after seeing him converse with some scientists in Half-Life 1, but I disagree that it was to let the combine through.

I think that he wanted to use the creatures on xen to his advantage, but he encountered a problem: Gordon. I don't see how the G-Man could have known that Gordon would destroy the xen masters, but I will say that it is interesting that both Gordon and the G-Man showed up on the same day.

Anyway, Gordon was an "unforseen consequence" that the G-Man took to his advantage (his "employers" would have been upset if they got nothing out of the cascade). As for the Combine being able to use Xen to get to Earth, they could not get there, so if the G-Man was trying to let the Combine get to Earth, he did a bad job. Also, if the G-Man was working for the Combine, what was the point of "employing" Freeman if he was to inevitably destroy the Combine? Freeman has set in motion a movement which will eventually liberate Earth, which the G-Man wants to see, or else Half-Life 2 would have never happened. Why he wants to liberate Earth now is unclear, but the Combine are another "unforseen consequence" that he has to get rid of before accomplishing his ultimate objective.

And as for the creatures from the Gearbox games, let us remember that OP and Blue Shift were Gearbox's interpretation of a story that Valve created. The extra creatures from these two games were not part of Valve's story and were created by Gearbox for interesting gameplay. Although the parallels in the stories were quite amusing (in Blue Shift, you are the Barney that Gordon sees banging on a door), we can't actually say that anything in those games actually happened, and we certainly can't say that all of the creatures existed in Valve's world.

 

[Llama]

AFIAK, G-Man didn't want the experiment to go ahead.

 

[AMGames09]

AFIAK, G-Man didn't want the experiment to go ahead.

I suppose I didn't take into consideration the fact that the G-Man could have been asking the scientists not to proceed with the experiment, but that makes all of the G-Man theories wrong, as all (or most) rely on the fact that he started the resonance cascade. Knowing this also removes the G-Man's role as a rogue government.

At the end of OF, the G-Man does seem like he did not want the cascade to occur...

In this case, the G-Man was sent to stop the cascade, but since he failed, he is now using freeman as a tool to undo what happened. In this case, he is most likely not a representative of a rogue government.

 

[Llama]

Most theories that state he was a goverment agent have been debunked due to his ability to seemingly teleport anywhere. It's possible that he didn't want the RC to occur, and that he has no direct control over what happens, but he can manipulate inderviduals. He noticed Freemans talents and decided that if he could survive long enough, he would be a useful asset.

 

[Laivasse]

My take on the G-Man's stance has always been that he wanted the experiment to go ahead, and the RC to happen. A lot of scientists around the labs were obviously nervous and questioning the safety of the experiment - I always got the impression that G-Man was there to silence those elements and push the test on through. This is borne out by a few people's transcriptions of the muffled lab convo.

 

[AMGames09]

Yes, but this is open to interpretation, which is exactly what Valve wanted. At this point, there really isn't enough information to do anything except speculate, and none of these "theories" can be actually called that without evidence to support them. And can we even use the Gearbox add-ons as support? Probably not. The way I see it, only Valve can really know who or what the G-Man really is, if anything. I think they may leave it up to the gamer to decide, considering that is what they've done with other elements of the story, and it is supposed to be thought provoking. If they ever give away any elements of the G-Man, it will be a disappointment more than a relief.

 

[Llama]

If you listen to the Scietists after the RC, they tell you that it was the Administrator (Breen) that was pushing the experiment. Although whether that was because he knew the RC would occur is anyones guess

 

[Laivasse]

I personally believe that both Gman and Breen were pushing for the experiment, but Gman specifically wanted the RC to occur while Breen didn't expect it to happen - he simply ignored the risks of the experiment, blinded by greed for knowledge and notoriety (fits with his character).

 

[AMGames09]

This is what I thought. That the G-Man pushed for the experiment, that Breen did as well, etc. But I can also understand where the other sides of the argument are coming from... But like I said. There is no right or wrong, nor will there ever be if I know Valve correctly. Valve has seen our responses to the G-Man, so they will continue to leave things unanswered.

 

[Llama]

But WHY would G-Man want it to happen? If he uses Gordon to begin the full rebellion against the Combine then Logically he doesnt agree to whatever they are doing. So, why would he create that situation in the first place?

 

[ríomhaire]

If you listen to the Scietists after the RC, they tell you that it was the Administrator (Breen) that was pushing the experiment. Although whether that was because he knew the RC would occur is anyones guess

All fears of a resonance cascade were completely ungrounged. There were safty mechanisms installed(thank you Decay). The fact that someone sabataged them is besides the point.



Edit:
The g-man's evil plan:
The Controllers were building up an army
The Controllers were going to invade Earth
A direct attack agaist the Controllers was impossible/would fail
An RC would f*ck up Xen as much as it did BM
The Controllers the run around going "OMGWTFBBQ111"
The g-man's forces move in and take Xen as the HECU took BM

Gordon, Gina, Colette, Rosenburg and Keller f*ck up the plan(as humans tend to do) by stopping the RC with the blooming satilite (again Decay).
The g-man gets Gordon to start another set of portal storms by killing Nihilanth(portals pour out of him when he dies and the portal storms themselves are evident) and to a less extent Adrian killing the gene-worm.

 

[Llama]

Quoted by a Scientist outside the test chamber "althouth I will admit that the possibility of a Resonance Cascade scenario is extremely unlikly".
The scientist is then cut off. This does seem to indicate that it was known it could happen

"We've boosted the Anti-Mass Spectrometer to 105%. Bit of a gamble but we need the extra resolution"
Also an indication that experiment carried a risk.

Inside the test chamber itself
"Err, its probably not a problem, probably, but i'm sure even a small discrepency in...well, no, its well within acceptable balance again. Sustaining sequence"

All these quotes seem to show the Scientists had at least a vague idea that the experiment had a small chance of going wrong (like six million to one).

Other note: There is no evidence to support that fact the machine was messed with. The scientists clearly emphasise the fact the machine was being pushed past its limits.

 

[Solver]

I believe somehow that the G-Man didn't want the experiment to happen. We know that Breen wanted it. If the G-Man wanted the same, why would he be seen arguing with a scientist in the Anomalous Materials lab? Then again, maybe he wasn't arguing...

Slightly OT: am I the only one slightly bothered by the thread's subject line? "Final solution" is how the Nazis used to refer to the Holocaust...

 

[Llama]

Yes you are. Anyone bringing the Holocaust into a HL story discussion is simply flame-baiting.

IIRC, parts of the G-Man - Scientist conversation can be heard, and the G-Man isn't at all happy that the experiment is going to happen

 

[ríomhaire]

Quoted by a Scientist outside the test chamber "althouth I will admit that the possibility of a Resonance Cascade scenario is extremely unlikly".
The scientist is then cut off. This does seem to indicate that it was known it could happen

"We've boosted the Anti-Mass Spectrometer to 105%. Bit of a gamble but we need the extra resolution"
Also an indication that experiment carried a risk.

Inside the test chamber itself
"Err, its probably not a problem, probably, but i'm sure even a small discrepency in...well, no, its well within acceptable balance again. Sustaining sequence"

All these quotes seem to show the Scientists had at least a vague idea that the experiment had a small chance of going wrong (like six million to one).

Other note: There is no evidence to support that fact the machine was messed with. The scientists clearly emphasise the fact the machine was being pushed past its limits.

Decay. The dampeing fields meant that anything that could have gone wrong would be sorted out. Resonance is when something vibrates at it's natural, or undampened, frequency. The dampening fields mean that if this could never happen because the frequency is always dampened
God bless you Dr. Rosenburg

 

[Laivasse]

I believe somehow that the G-Man didn't want the experiment to happen. We know that Breen wanted it. If the G-Man wanted the same, why would he be seen arguing with a scientist in the Anomalous Materials lab?

Because unlike Breen, some of the scientists were worried about it and didn't want it to happen: "...the administrator just wouldn't listen". You could speculate that part of the reason that Breen went ahead wiht pushing for the experiment was Gman's interference on the ground, arguing the scientists down and silencing all protest.

But WHY would G-Man want it to happen? If he uses Gordon to begin the full rebellion against the Combine then Logically he doesnt agree to whatever they are doing. So, why would he create that situation in the first place?

That's only a problem if you assume that the Xen forces were operating on behalf of the Combine, which I don't.

I posted my theory a while back (all complete speculation, but I thought it sounded cool) about how G-man had a plan 1) to assassinate Nihilanth and maybe also 2) to ruin earth with the portal storms. Perhaps it was to soften up Earth and Xen for whatever force he represents - a force potentially more terrible than the Combine...? Or for whatever motive, who knows.

He initially planned to use mankind to do his dirty work on Xen for him, but doesn't plan on the troops getting utterly annihilated. Neither does he plan on Freeman popping up and being such a glory boy, so he uses Freeman as the tool for the job instead (and then carries on using him ever since).

So everything in HL1 goes the Gman's way. To me, it feels like if Gman didn't want the experiment to go ahead, it just wouldn't have gone ahead. He appears to be a 'man' (?...'not man, for you he waits, for you...') who rarely fails to have things go his way.

BUT the Combine's arrival on the scene may have been one such unexpected development. Perhaps just before Gman's backers were going to make their move on earth, the Combine move in and steal the show - perhaps even saving earth from an even more terrible fate...? And so Gman opens up a can of Gordon on the Combine.

I think it sounds cool anyway, and it works well for me to fill in the unanswered questions as long as Valve are leaving them unanswered.

 

[UltimaApocalypse]

This answers all questions you may have:

http://www.hlfallout.net/content/potd.php?id=22557

 

[AMGames09]

I wrote a paper on the subject, hoping to explain most major viewpoints and explaining the pluses and minuses of each argument. It also has a substantial amount of info as to the relationship of the G-man to the main characters of the HL games. I highly suggest you read it.

Edit: I have fixed some innacuracies that I felt should be addressed. Thought I still think that the G-man had something to do with the Cascade, I could not find conclusive evidence to support it. The paper still remains the same basically: It still has all of the arguments and evidence for and against them and leaves you to decide what it means.

 

[ríomhaire]

I'll have a look, more than that I cannot promise muhahahahahhahahahhahhahaaa!

Edit: Im does not need to be explained, it's probably the initials of Breen's former secretary

"G-man telling a guard to keep a door locked"
Don't pass of speculation off as fact please.

"Shephard also heard Gordon Freeman jump into the portal to Xen"
I think you mean saw, lol, though he didn't know who he was or what he was doing.

"Freeman was obviously part of the G-man’s plan, and his role should be obvious."
Yeah, to be killed by the HECU apparently...:|

"but there is definitely another person in his administrative office."
A secretary! :O

"“lm” insisted that the Anomalous Material be switched to a purer form, partially causing the Resonance Cascade."
None mention Im, they mentioned the Administrator

"He is greedy for power"
From what do you base this on?

"Also, one man says “Dr. Breen again? I thought I saw the last of him in City 14!” This is because there was no City 14."
That theory holds about as much water as a sieve.

"Nova Prospekt is a prison where people are converted into stalkers"
Tense error "It used to a prison, it's something much worse now"

 

[AMGames09]

Alright, I'll have to check my sources again, but I got some of that from Valve...

Yes, "lm" could be just a secretary, and I never said that anything in my paper was certain, I just drew a conclusion from the information I had is all. No one has any theories that check out completely, so I hatched an idea. Obviously, it's not foolproof.

And as for the theory that there isn't anything else besides City 17, that guy saying something along the lines of "they leave, but they never return, and the ones here never leave" (paraphrase) gave me this idea. If I know anything about dictators (this is where history comes in handy), it's that they want to give their citizens a false feeling of comfort. The train station would be an effective way to produce that. Sure, if you want to leave you can just get on a train and go, but that is not the case. And I believe Valve themselves said that City 17 held the last of the human race (I may be wrong but it is plausable).

Oh, and for Dr. Breen, that just seems like his personality. I guess I don't have much to base that on, except that it's obvious enough to me.

Just updated to fix the innacuracies.

Note that "lm" could still be someone other than the secretary. The letters were signed BOTH by the OTA and "lm". Why would the secretary sign his/her initials? Letters like this would be signed by the company (which this was) and not by the secretary. The "lm" argument still stands.

The actual document that asked the Anomalous Materials Lab to switch the Anomalous Material was signed by the OTA and "lm".

 

[Llama]

I think you're reading to far into it with the signatures on the letters. It's most probable there are people in other cities, the human population wouldnt shrink like that in a matter of 2 or 3 decades at most

 

[ríomhaire]

Alright, I'll have to check my sources again, but I got some of that from Valve...

Yes, "lm" could be just a secretary, and I never said that anything in my paper was certain, I just drew a conclusion from the information I had is all. No one has any theories that check out completely, so I hatched an idea. Obviously, it's not foolproof.

And as for the theory that there isn't anything else besides City 17, that guy saying something along the lines of "they leave, but they never return, and the ones here never leave" (paraphrase) gave me this idea. If I know anything about dictators (this is where history comes in handy), it's that they want to give their citizens a false feeling of comfort. The train station would be an effective way to produce that. Sure, if you want to leave you can just get on a train and go, but that is not the case. And I believe Valve themselves said that City 17 held the last of the human race (I may be wrong but it is plausable).

Oh, and for Dr. Breen, that just seems like his personality. I guess I don't have much to base that on, except that it's obvious enough to me.

Just updated to fix the innacuracies.

Note that "lm" could still be someone other than the secretary. The letters were signed BOTH by the OTA and "lm". Why would the secretary sign his/her initials? Letters like this would be signed by the company (which this was) and not by the secretary. The "lm" argument still stands.

The actual document that asked the Anomalous Materials Lab to switch the Anomalous Material was signed by the OTA and "lm".

But if people were being moved from City 17 out and then back in wouldn't they notice things like someone saying
"Man, I hate this city, City 15 was way better!"
"This isn't City 15?"
"I thought is was City 28"
And Breen's breencasts specificaly mentioning that is was City 17 and that Civil Protection officers have C17 on their uniforms?

 

[Llama]

No one leaves City 17 after arrival. It seems that anyone who does it sent to Nova Prospekt. Besides, if you were living in a regine like the Combine's, would you go blabbing your mouth off about the amdimistrators head city?

 

[Rizzo]

There are other citys.

 

[GTGear]

There are other citys.

Yeah, I think so too, I mean, why else would Civil Protections and Combine Overwatch have "C17" on their uniforms.

 

[UltimaApocalypse]

Oh god, this thread has finally been revived. Yay!

Random Fact:

 

[Remus]

Well that's a known fact that the combine and those things from Xen are two different races.
When I saw the first screen captures with the combine soldiers I actually thought that the Combine are humans from another dimension. It would've been interesting if that were the case.

 

[Asknoone]

Of course there are other cities, but I doubt there will be many. The human population is down to an absolute minimum, and you can bet alot of cities were simply lost to the surrounding wasteland.

 

[Remus]

There are other cities = I want to see them damn it!
Now seriously I would like to see some of those cities in the following episodes.

 

[Asknoone]

Why? I don't feel a great urge to run off an liberate another City. Though, it could be good, given the feel of City 17 - if Valve managed to pull that off elsewhere.

 

[Edcrab]

Well, the Citadel is the heart of the Combine occupation, but yeah, I guess there'll be forces scattered over the planet...

 

[Rizzo]

Well who says there arnt more citadles on earth?

The combine didnt just teleport one citadel and toke over earth, they sent a whole bunch. I guess thats it easyer to controll a city when they have a huge citadel as base of opperations.

Other then the BIG base of opperations, City 17.

 

[Edcrab]

Oh, I'm sure there're other Citadels, I'm just saying how City 17 appears to be their apparent base of operations.

A lot of the other cities are probably just scorched earth, but I'm sure there're plenty of population centres still in existence...

 

[ríomhaire]

It's Breen's base of operations. Something tells me all citadels are equil.

 

[Rizzo]

Yes... But Breen is in charge of earth, not onely City 17.

 

[Spase]

"Black Mesa admin charged with human affairs bureau." -newspaper in Vance's lab

aka Dr. Breen is in charge of relaying Combine orders upon the Earths population.