Creationism: God's gift to the ignorant

[Raziaar]

the only problem with that is according to the bible the world is only around 10,000 years old ...not to mention that god created man on the sixth day:

Well, you do understand that the bible uses ancient languages which have far different meanings than what would be percieved differently today, right? The whole 'earth created in six days' does not have to be six actual days. It can just as easily be a representation of many eons. You never know. See, you accuse people of reading the bible literally, yet you yourself do the exact same... for specific things. And as for the 10,000 years old thing? I won't take that as fact either, as in way back in that time people didn't even know many things, like the earth is round, etc. You're talking about an ancient people who might not even be able to comprehend such an amount of time longer than 10,000 years, and so used that as a simple number. Hell, they probably didn't even have representations for millions and billions of years either, and certainly wouldn't be able to comprehend that span of time. ESPECIALLY since there are no written records dating anywhere near that far.

"And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."



and I dont buy that 24 hours = x amount, according to bible revisionists ..it's just an attempt to rationalise a glaring error in the bible

Oh, you don't buy it huh? See, like I said, you accuse others of literally reading the bible, and then you yourself do the exact same and expect yourself to be right for doing so, and others to not be. Right. I see how you are stern.

Again, you are talking about ancient people, likely without too much comprehension of vast expanses of time before the written records that were available during their time.

 

[OCybrManO]

now you just got silly, the idea of God is that he is not a human being, he is the beging the the end, he is perfect all the time, he can't get lazy nor does he need drugs, we don't know if God is he or she or it or anything, i look at God as being everyting he know, see, feel, we all make up God (my personal believe)

Define perfect... oh yeah... don't use human terms.

 

[short recoil]

Define perfect... oh yeah... don't use human terms.

Me
6char
Damn you edited it at the last min.

 

[CptStern]

Well, you do understand that the bible uses ancient languages which have far different meanings than what would be percieved differently today, right? The whole 'earth created in six days' does not have to be six actual days. It can just as easily be a representation of many eons. You never know. See, you accuse people of reading the bible literally, yet you yourself do the exact same... for specific things. And as for the 10,000 years old thing? I won't take that as fact either, as in way back in that time people didn't even know many things, like the earth is round, etc. You're talking about an ancient people who might not even be able to comprehend such an amount of time longer than 10,000 years, and so used that as a simple number. Hell, they probably didn't even have representations for millions and billions of years either, and certainly wouldn't be able to comprehend that span of time. ESPECIALLY since there are no written records dating anywhere near that far.

then why wouldnt he just say "1 day = 1 million years" ...revisionist crap

Oh, you don't buy it huh? See, like I said, you accuse others of literally reading the bible, and then you yourself do the exact same and expect yourself to be right for doing so, and others to not be. Right. I see how you are stern.

Again, you are talking about ancient people, likely without too much comprehension of vast expanses of time before the written records that were available during their time.

where do you draw the line? according to your ilk the bible is clear about homosexuality ..it's a sin ...how do you know that in ancient times "sin" actually meant "normal behaviour"? see what I mean? you cant just pick and choose which parts of the bible you'll interpret as literal

 

[Raziaar]

then why wouldnt he just say "1 day = 1 million years" ...revisionist crap






where do you draw the line? according to your ilk the bible is clear about homosexuality ..it's a sin ...how do you know that in ancient times "sin" actually meant "normal behaviour"? see what I mean? you cant just pick and choose which parts of the bible you'll interpret as literal

<laughs> Whatever Stern. You keep going on saying, "Don't interpret the bible literally" While doing just that. And your stuff about 'sin' not being sin. Well, thats just silly. The bible explicitly goes into detail about exactly what a sin is, so don't give me that crap, alright?

And don't turn this thread into a homosexuality debate, because I will not argue against homosexuality.

 

[CptStern]

<laughs> Whatever Stern. You keep going on saying, "Don't interpret the bible literally" While doing just that. And your stuff about 'sin' not being sin. Well, thats just silly.

you mean like "a day is not a day" :upstare:

<The bible explicitly goes into detail about exactly what a sin is, so don't give me that crap, alright?

And don't turn this thread into a homosexuality debate, because I will not argue against homosexuality.

? just answer the damn question ...what's the difference? you cant pick and choose which aspects of the bible you choose to interpret

 

[OCybrManO]

you cant pick and choose which aspects of the bible you choose to interpret

Not until the messiah comes back and says "Oh yeah, that John guy was way off."

 

[iyfyoufhl]

yes but that makes no sense ..why wouldnt god just say .."a million years" instead of "on the sixth day"? My problem is that it all boils down to whatever explanation is most convienent

because years are made up of days, ok, as i see it Day in bible means a uncertain peroid of time, but for God time is like speed he can do whatever with time, he just put it in simple human terms so we could relate, the same way he sent "his son" so we could relate to him and undersatand him better

 

[short recoil]

One thing i will say,
The bible was written by humans, humans make mistakes.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Define perfect... oh yeah... don't use human terms.

being everything

 

[iyfyoufhl]

One thing i will say,
The bible was written by humans, humans make mistakes.

"written", not created, anyway if you think about it, humans don't make mistakes, everything happens for a reason, it's all a part of Big Plan

 

[CptStern]

because years are made up of days, ok, as i see it Day in bible means a uncertain peroid of time, but for God time is like speed he can do whatever with time, he just put it in simple human terms so we could relate, the same way he sent "his son" so we could relate to him and undersatand him better

you're interpreting the bible as you see fit ..where does it say that a day isnt 24 hours long?

 

[HunterSeeker]

"written", not created, anyway if you think about it, humans don't make mistakes, everything happens for a reason, it's all a part of Big Plan

So you are saying that god kinda stood by the side of a human and told him what to write? Or did he create an empty book and told some guy to write something in it?

 

[CptStern]

"written", not created, anyway if you think about it, humans don't make mistakes, everything happens for a reason, it's all a part of Big Plan

and we come full circle back to my original statement:

"it's all part of god's mysterious plan"


...it's a cop out because of a lack of any sort of logical sense

 

[OCybrManO]

"written", not created, anyway if you think about it, humans don't make mistakes, everything happens for a reason, it's all a part of Big Plan

because years are made up of days, ok, as i see it Day in bible means a uncertain peroid of time, but for God time is like speed he can do whatever with time, he just put it in simple human terms so we could relate, the same way he sent "his son" so we could relate to him and undersatand him better

That also depends on your interpretation of the Bible and which version you read. The oldest versions of the writings that make up the New Testament describe Jesus as a regular guy that was more like the adopted son of God... and only after he died did they even say that much about him. Later on, all that John crap basically rewrote the entire life of Jesus. According to John he was always the sinless biological son of God, he never had a baptism, he travelled through completely different regions for longer periods of time, he died on a different day, he only performed miracles in front of crowds to prove he was the son of God instead of in private out of compassion, and a bunch of stuff like that. It completely disagrees on something like 90% of the things everything else agreed on at the time... and yet, it still made its way in. If the Bible is God's word (since you say men didn't actually create it) and people have free will... having God put in those kinds of contradictions sounds like he's trying to deceive people in order to "test their faith" by seeing who will still believe in him. That's another retarded phrase (the one in quotation marks) used a lot to justify pain and suffering. He's all-powerful. He could know how faithful they are by thinking about it and avoid being a spiteful deity at the same time. The whole thing about Satan being an evil being fighting against God didn't originate in Christianity. God could sometimes be an angry, selfish deity in the early versions. People didn't like that. They saw this problem and basically tried to fix it by ripping an idea out of Zoroastrianism.

being everything

Everything includes evil. Everything includes hate. Everything includes pain. Everything includes... well, everything that is not good. Your view of perfection doesn't sound like the kind of all-powerful being I want in charge of my life. If this world is your idea of perfect... you're one twisted guy.

I say if there is a deity in control of everything he isn't perfect. Just the bit about him massaging his ego by requiring you to believe in him before you can get your reward sounds crazy. It's like someone holding you in a head lock and not letting go until you answer the question "Who's your daddy?"

 

[iyfyoufhl]

you're interpreting the bible as you see fit ..where does it say that a day isnt 24 hours long?

where does it say (in Bible) that when God said that the world was made in 6 days, made up of 24 hours? dude they didn't even had clock back than, try to be open and realize that if it said "world was created in 193,032 years" the early jews would be so cofused, Bible is like a story with a moral, not description

 

[short recoil]

Man, if i wasn't going to work in a minute i'd explain something that will all shock you, ill tell you tommorow.

 

[OCybrManO]

where does it say (in Bible) that when God said that the world was made in 6 days, made up of 24 hours? dude they didn't even had clock back than, try to be open and realize that if it said "world was created in 193,032 years" the early jews would be so cofused, Bible is like a story with a moral, not description

Wait... are the people confused about the time or is God confused about the time? If you were writing a book for a modern American audience would you use units like stones, cubits, orguiai, pleqra, etc? No, you write for your audience. He's telling the story after the world has been created. The concept of the day has been invented. Are you saying he's perfect but he can't judge time without an earth spinning around a sun?

 

[iyfyoufhl]

That also depends on your interpretation of the Bible and which version you read. The oldest versions of the writings that make up the New Testament describe Jesus as a regular guy that was more like the adopted son of God... and only after he died did they even say that much about him. Later on, all that John crap basically rewrote the entire life of Jesus. According to John he was always the sinless biological son of God, he never had a baptism, he travelled through completely different regions for longer periods of time, he died on a different day, he only performed miracles in front of crowds to prove he was the son of God instead of in private out of compassion, and a bunch of stuff like that. It completely disagrees on something like 90% of the things everything else agreed on at the time... and yet, it still made its way in. If the Bible is God's word (since you say men didn't actually create it) and people have free will... having God put in those kinds of contradictions sounds like he's trying to deceive people in order to "test their faith" by seeing who will still believe in him. That's another retarded phrase (the one in quotation marks) used a lot to justify pain and suffering. He's all-powerful. He could know how faithful they are by thinking about it and avoid being a spiteful deity at the same time. The whole thing about Satan being an evil being fighting against God didn't originate in Christianity. God could sometimes be an angry, selfish deity in the early versions. People didn't like that. They saw this problem and basically tried to fix it by ripping an idea out of Zoroastrianism.

Everything includes evil. Everything includes hate. Everything includes pain. Everything includes... well, everything that is not good. Your view of perfection doesn't sound like the kind of all-powerful being I want in charge of my life. If this world is your idea of perfect... you're one twisted guy.

I say if there is a deity in control of everything he isn't perfect.

well, if we haven't had wwII (evil) we would have a problem with over population, if Judath never betrayed (evil) Crist, he would not get crusifid and die for our sins, i say don't be trapped by the Bible, it was made for you, not the other way around

 

[iyfyoufhl]

So you are saying that god kinda stood by the side of a human and told him what to write?

ohhh, yeah, that's why they call it "God's word"

and we come full circle back to my original statement:

"it's all part of god's mysterious plan"


...it's a cop out because of a lack of any sort of logical sense

do you love your kids because it logicaly makes sense?

the whole point of Chrisianity (and other major religions) is to make people understand that we have to love and care for everybody and everything, but no, we get caught up with ditails and technicalities and defenetly missed the over all point of Love.
another thing i don't like about American religios behavior is that, one lady said that in "her Bible" it said that we have to "try to lover everbody", i have no clue what she is talking about, because last time i checked it said that we have to love everybody, because you can "try", fail and than think that it's ok to hate (or at least dislike) because you "tried" and that's all you had to do

 

[OCybrManO]

well, if we haven't had wwII (evil) we would have a problem with over population, if Judath never betrayed (evil) Crist, he would not get crusifid and die for our sins, i say don't be trapped by the Bible, it was made for you, not the other way around

God can fix sin if you believe in him but he can't create a world without it? The only explanation I've seen anywhere (other than some other magic force creating evil... which is hardly an excuse for an all-powerful being) for our world not to be perfect is for us to have a choice in whether or not we believe in God. If that's true we're just here to feed his ego. He made the decision to create the everyone in a way that would allow non-believers... and then they get punished? That seems like non-believers get a shitty deal. If you create a being and you don't want it to disobey you... you make it so it won't disobey you. If you want everyone to believe in you... you make it so everyone believes in you. You don't give them the ability to do whatever they want, overload them with contradicting information, then punish the people that choose the wrong path. That's just mean.

 

[Raziaar]

Man, if i wasn't going to work in a minute i'd explain something that will all shock you, ill tell you tommorow.

Heh. That reminds me of those stupid ass news reporter things.

"Something found in every household that can kill your child! Coming up later in the program"

 

[iyfyoufhl]

God can fix sin if you believe in him but he can't create a world without it? The only explanation I've seen anywhere (other than some other magic force creating evil... which is hardly an excuse for an all-powerful being) for our world not to be perfect is for us to have a choice in whether or not we believe in God. If that's true we're just here to feed his ego. He made the decision to create the everyone in a way that would allow non-believers... and then they get punished? That seems like non-believers get a shitty deal. If you create a being and you don't want it to disobey you... you make it so it won't disobey you. If you want everyone to believe in you... you make it so everyone believes in you. You don't give them the ability to do whatever they want, overload them with contradicting information, then punish the people that choose the wrong path. That's just mean.

yeah, i agree with you that only believers will go to heaven, i think he meant believers of good and love, not nessesery believers of the spesific religion

i think we should take all religous writins, find the simularities and follow them, because there is a huge chance that Bible was altered by men to fit their ideas or goals

 

[Maxi]

Actually the AIDS virus proves evolution. The virus is different in every person. It mutates on every infection. BAM evolution IN YOUR FACE!

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Actually the AIDS virus proves evolution. The virus is different in every person. It mutates on every infection. BAM evolution IN YOUR FACE!

but man is the only sciecy out of thousands with reason and mind (i'm not agaist evolution nor i'm agaisnt God)

 

[Razor]

My believes are simple, god created the universe and then sat back and enjoyed the show...

 

[Maxi]

but man is the only sciecy out of thousands with reason and mind (i'm not agaist evolution nor i'm agaisnt God)

There did exist a few (four iirc) different species of "humans", ape-like beings with large brains at one point, but modern man killed off the other species, with some help of the ice-age.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

My believes are simple, god created the universe and then sat back and enjoyed the show...

i think somewhere in the biggining it's writen that God created univers because he wanted some thing beautiful (like an artist) but he also loves us

 

[Solaris]

May I ask why you belive this?
I think religion is denial really of the truth, that once you die you will never comeback or even experince a though EVER again.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

There did exist a few (four iirc) different species of "humans", ape-like beings with large brains at one point, but modern man killed off the other species, with some help of the ice-age.

really? never heard of that, try to find some sources, anyway did they every find that "lost link"

 

[iyfyoufhl]

May I ask why you belive this?
I think religion is denial really of the truth, that once you die you will never comeback or even experince a though EVER again.

how's that the truth?

 

[iyfyoufhl]

May I ask why you belive this?
I think religion is denial really of the truth, that once you die you will never comeback or even experince a though EVER again.

how's that the truth? did your dead friend told you?

Oh, shoot, sorry i triple posted, total accident

 

[Razor]

There did exist a few (four iirc) different species of "humans", ape-like beings with large brains at one point, but modern man killed off the other species, with some help of the ice-age.

You had homo-sapians living in Africa and neandethals in Europe, the homo-sapians moved north and overpopulated and pushed the neandethals out, some also interbred to become what we are today.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

You had homo-sapians living in Africa and neandethals in Europe, the homo-sapians moved north and overpopulated and pushed the neandethals out, some also interbred to become what we are today.

so, where does the "bigger brain" people come in?

 

[CptStern]

where does it say (in Bible) that when God said that the world was made in 6 days, made up of 24 hours? dude they didn't even had clock back than, try to be open and realize that if it said "world was created in 193,032 years" the early jews would be so cofused, Bible is like a story with a moral, not description

then why would they call it "days"? the bible is very clear ..it says 6 days it was written by man therefore it MUST follow human logic

 

[iyfyoufhl]

then why would they call it "days"? the bible is very clear ..it says 6 days it was written by man therefore it MUST follow human logic

again, God told men what to write, obviosly man wasn't there during the creation, and please read the posts that i posted, i explained why it says that, so people could understand and relate better

it's like a childrens book, writen simple so we could understand it better (but not take every sinle phrase litterally)

 

[The Monkey]

so, where does the "bigger brain" people come in?

The Homo Sapiens were the "bigger brain people". They envolved what we are today, Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

You had homo-sapians living in Africa and neandethals in Europe, the homo-sapians moved north and overpopulated and pushed the neandethals out, some also interbred to become what we are today.

Although breeding between neandertals and Homo Sapiens might have been biological possible, no suck intercourse have been proved, and not one living person has been found carring neandertal genes.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

The Homo Sapiens were the "bigger brain people". They envolved what we are today, Homo Sapiens Sapiens.



Although breeding between neandertals and Homo Sapiens might have been biological possible, no suck intercourse have been proved, and not one living person has been found carring neandertal genes.

i just googled it and it doesn't say anything about bigger brain

 

[Maxi]

Also there was that asian humanoid thing, but it kinda died, and then there was a fourth, don't remember it's name but I saw this whole thing on discovery channel.

Anyway, they ALL have big brains, and neanderthals actually had a bigger brain than what we do.

 

[The Monkey]

Also there was that asian humanoid thing, but it kinda died, and then there was a fourth, don't remember it's name but I saw this whole thing on discovery channel.

Anyway, they ALL have big brains, and neanderthals actually had a bigger brain than what we do.

But they functioned in another way, which lead to them not being able to build civilization the same way as Homo.