Crowbar swing (nitpick thread)

L

Line Bender

Guest
Well read the title, if you are a HL2 fanboy that starts frothing at the mouth with the grawling and the fangs and mwaheey...moivenhaven...you better stop reading here.

Myself, i think i can consider myself a fanboy yes, i catch myself daydreaming about playing HL2 and having fun with the gravity gun and all. But there's still some things that don't seem right (after watching the damn E3 2004 vid for the 20'th time, damn Valve teasers).

What's with the crowbar swinging animation? I remember the crowbar actually swinging in HL1, now in HL2, Gordon just seems to push the crowbar forward. It just doesn't seem right, he just pushes it forward without any force. Maybe it would have been cooler if it had been done like Thief or Deus Ex, where you have to keep the mouse button pressed down to raise the crowbar, and let the mouse go to swing. The longer you hold, the more powerfull it is.

Hell i should be telling the people at Valve this :)

Anyways, if you feel like nitpicking on other things (no doubt you folks have watched the video tons of times, like me), or maybe tear my flesh appart for being a newbie nitpicking little sob, do so in this thread please :)
 
yeah you're soo bright i never heard any of the dozens of people on this forum mention this before, i'm sure valve will fire gabe newell and put you in his position because you are so clever.
 
I remember something about somene saying that valve was going to fix it, but they might of been referring to the sound syncing (I guess it was off)...

I agree though, that it should be more of a manly swing, rather than a push. I wanna actually hear it swing like in HL1!
 
i dont like that little push forward either.
a good heftly swing from right to left is whats needed.
one click will suffice.
 
It's not an animation, it's controlled by the game physics. Why it looks that way I don't know or care.

I think...
 
ill watch again but i remember it looking cool when he busted up the boards in the shed.
 
WaterMelon34 said:
It's not an animation, it's controlled by the game physics. Why it looks that way I don't know or care.

I think...
Click to expand...

Yes, it is an animation. It is a physically simulated object, but that doesn't mean it's not an animation. That's not how it works.
 
When he was whacking the rollermines is seemed okay to me .....
It is a little bit more like a "push" though ....
 
:naughty: I've sat in class, thinking how graphics would be in 5 years. I think up the Source II Engine how it has ultra realism adn whatnot, i'm goofy
 
i think the "push"ing effect is due to the fact that this crowbar is actually moving foreward. in hl1 it was a 2d animation(essentially, if not actually), across the screen. in hl2 it is showing the crowbar model move from right to left and foreward in a swinging motion. due to the limited 1st person view it looks a little odd. but since you are actually putting foreward force into the swing(thats how you would break a box, not by grazing the front of it with the tip of the crowbar in a purely right to left motion), the crowbar indeed moves foreward. im pretty sure if you swung a crowbar in real life in the exact manner required to break boxes and smack zombies, it would look just like that. in fact, ill test it out tomorrow and tell you guys what my results are.
 
Naft said:
i think the "push"ing effect is due to the fact that this crowbar is actually moving foreward. in hl1 it was a 2d animation(essentially, if not actually), across the screen. in hl2 it is showing the crowbar model move from right to left and foreward in a swinging motion. due to the limited 1st person view it looks a little odd. but since you are actually putting foreward force into the swing(thats how you would break a box, not by grazing the front of it with the tip of the crowbar in a purely right to left motion), the crowbar indeed moves foreward. im pretty sure if you swung a crowbar in real life in the exact manner required to break boxes and smack zombies, it would look just like that. in fact, ill test it out tomorrow and tell you guys what my results are.
Click to expand...


careful not to bash your skull in accidentally.
 
A problem valve has to face is that a hefty crowbar swing requires a wind-up, and it's a serious gameplay change to force the player to hold down the mouse to charge up his swing. The hit must be just about instantaneous along with the mouseclick. The only way to move a crowbar that fast is with a push style motion. That being said, the arm could (and probably has) been re-animated to convey more weight.
 
I'll take gordon's effeminate "ew get away from me" crowbar swing over any type of delay to correct it any time.
 
I think naft is right-- because the bar is physically simulated, a cross-screen swing would have unwanted results. That being said, there isn't only one animation. You can see when he's splintering the boards that there is a bit of back and forth swinging going on (presumable when the mouse button is held down).
 
Yeah the swing animation is fairly pants.

I think i'll re-animate it myself when the games out.
 
IF you look at the first swing in the movie with the buggy of the cliff, he misses and the crowbar swings across the screen a bit similar to in HL1, but longer down.

I think the swing in HL1 was too fast and all over the screen.
The new swing seems more controled and more real.
 
i really want to see heftier swings and i wanna see the crowbar stick in a zombies head when you deal the final blow. then you have to yank it off and the headcrab's stuck on the end of it squirming til it dies
 
ValVed RaY said:
yeah you're soo bright i never heard any of the dozens of people on this forum mention this before, i'm sure valve will fire gabe newell and put you in his position because you are so clever.
Click to expand...
[SARCASM]you are such a friendly person, its obvious why you arent banned.[/SARCASM]

if you havent noticed all discussions on HL2.net are rehashed ones from the past, or the same content... theres nothing else to discuss.
now if it were discussed recently you should have said "This is already being discussed here: **link to discussion here**" that way the person could carry on the discussion in the previous thread he missed and the mods would close the new one. (so people can discuss the same topic in one thread as one conversation)

the crowbar was supposed to be fixed after last E3, its better now, but not by much, he has an opinion this is a forum and he has the right to express it.

hell he even called this a "Nitpick" thread, so people who werent interested in that wouldnt waste their time posting.
 
Naft said:
i think the "push"ing effect is due to the fact that this crowbar is actually moving foreward. in hl1 it was a 2d animation(essentially, if not actually), across the screen. in hl2 it is showing the crowbar model move from right to left and foreward in a swinging motion. due to the limited 1st person view it looks a little odd. but since you are actually putting foreward force into the swing(thats how you would break a box, not by grazing the front of it with the tip of the crowbar in a purely right to left motion), the crowbar indeed moves foreward. im pretty sure if you swung a crowbar in real life in the exact manner required to break boxes and smack zombies, it would look just like that. in fact, ill test it out tomorrow and tell you guys what my results are.
Click to expand...

the crowbar in HL 1 actually moved forward also. you make no sense. hl1 was no less 3D than hl2 is.
 
ValVed RaY said:
yeah you're soo bright i never heard any of the dozens of people on this forum mention this before, i'm sure valve will fire gabe newell and put you in his position because you are so clever.
Click to expand...

NelI said:
What an impressively boring topic.
.
Click to expand...

Woo! My first thread on this forum and i allready made a few friends :thumbs:

Flamebait aside tough, the crowbar thing is no biggy really. You'll probably won't even notice when you're playing. Just trying to come up with stuff to talk about, offcourse it gets boring after a while.

BTW did i mention the horrible shadows in the part with the crane and the container? ;)
 
Don't mind us, we're just EXTREMELY AGGRAVATED BY THE DELAY AND ARE GENERALLY FRUSTRATED AT HAVING TO WAIT SO LONG FOR HALF-LIFE 2

Pretty standard stuff really.
 
HL1 crowbar was MD1 or MD2 model and it was indeed 3D, each MD* file can have maximum of 197 frames, its animation looked much better then HL2, either HL2 model files are inferior to old format or Valve doesn't pay much attention on crowbar animation in source.
 
ValVed RaY said:
yeah you're soo bright i never heard any of the dozens of people on this forum mention this before, i'm sure valve will fire gabe newell and put you in his position because you are so clever.
Click to expand...
Good morning mr. sunshine :D... HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY

Anyway, welcome to hl2.net mr.Line Bender, southern neighbour!. Please enjoy your stay here, and don’t mind the others, the Prozac isn’t working for them. I need to keep telling them not to take it with alcohol but will they listen? NO!
 
Mr-Fusion said:
Don't mind us, we're just EXTREMELY AGGRAVATED BY THE DELAY AND ARE GENERALLY FRUSTRATED AT HAVING TO WAIT SO LONG FOR HALF-LIFE 2

Pretty standard stuff really.
Click to expand...
I've given up caring personally. It's still gonna be done sometime... Don't you people have anything better to do? Like get drunk? <falls over>
But seriously folks - no offense LineBender, this is a pretty sh*t thread. Who cares? If it really pisses you off that much there'll be - as MrFusion so Dr. Frankestein-esquely (it's a word) put it - "re-animations"
And don't mind Valved Ray. If that's the best he has to contribute.. Well, he's acting like a moron.
 
ailevation said:
:naughty: I've sat in class, thinking how graphics would be in 5 years. I think up the Source II Engine how it has ultra realism adn whatnot, i'm goofy
Click to expand...
lol, there wont be a source 2, or another engine that vale is going to develop for years to come
 
he even put that this was a nitpick thread in the title fs! If you dont care go look at other threads :)

I think the current crowbar swing isnt to bad. Yeah its a little small, but like someone said it has to be kind of instanteous so you arent sitting their trying to time your swing right.
 
Well what ever ur opinion on the crowbar, its definitly improved from last year, there acctully seems to be multiple animations now instead of the single "nudge".

When he is attacking the zombie outside there was quite a good whack round the side of his head which i quite liked lol.

Oh well personal preference i guess.
 
the crowbar in HL 1 actually moved forward also. you make no sense. hl1 was no less 3D than hl2 is.
Click to expand...
no, the crowbar is not really moved foreward. the predominant motion is right to left. of course it moves foreward, but it doesnt have a "foreward" motion(there is the one "miss" animation that moves foreward, but it is different than hl2, ill explain more later). and no, i was not saying hl1 was 2d, or that the animations were 2d. notice how i said "(essentially, if not actually)"? that means "yes, i know they arent actually completely 2d, but they essentially are." the crowbar's motion is not three dimensionally simulated, it is purly an animation with a hit zone. in hl2, the crowbar IS three dimensionally simulated, meaning if the crowbar physically touches the object, it does damage, otherwise, nothing. when it hits the object, that has an effect on the trajectory, it's not just a different animation.
Im really sorry, i didnt know british english was that incredibly different from american english. it couldnt possibly be any lack of comprehension on your part, ill just go shoot myself now.

i went outside just now, busted out the crowbar on some 2x6 fencing, and the answer is deceptively simple. when you hit somehting, you swing foreward, so you can actually HIT it *gasp*. the full momentum of the crowbar is transferred foreward into the object. you then have to pull the crowbar back towards you. even if the object breaks, the easiest and safest way to get the crowbar back is to pull it back. since the remainder of the swinging motion is not seen when you look directly foreward, it looks like a push.

and a crowbar is weilded with two hands, one just above where the flat spike meets hexagonal pole, and the other two to three inches above that(for a 3' crowbar), a few inches below the midpoint. it is then swung back over the right(or left for all you southpaws) shoulder, and then released foreward and slightly to the left(hits can be alternated moving to the left or right), where it hits the desired object near the center of your vision. after making contact, missing, or breaking through, the only real option to bring the crowbar back is to pull it up, if you tried to swing it back around you would either get your arms twisted or have to swing it the opposite direction in an extremely inefficient manner.

the first crowbar swing in hl1 moves similar to in hl2(in a foreward motion), but he just pulls the crowbar down out of view instead of drawing it back like you normally would. the other two are entirely ineffiecient and impractical.
for some reason gordon also only weilds the crowbar with one hand(giving him less power and less control).

an um.....heh
 
the crowbar is a pretty ghey weapon anyway first it wuld b e-z to dodge and counterattack and second your enemies have long range attacks so they can just sit back and pick you off from a distance and laf while you jump around swinging your ghey crowbar at them.
 
=1nfiltrat0r= said:
the crowbar is a pretty ghey weapon anyway first it wuld b e-z to dodge and counterattack and second your enemies have long range attacks so they can just sit back and pick you off from a distance and laf while you jump around swinging your ghey crowbar at them.
Click to expand...

please die.

the new crowbar swing looks great to me + the melee in source must be much cooler now that you can simulate in 3d like that :) /me imagines pirates vikeings and knights in source
 
@ infiltrator: wtf? somebody ban this child.

@ naft:
I see what you're saying, but you must admit the animation does look odd. I'm willing to bet the animation was as much of a placeholder as the green bloodspots we saw.

Random thought: If I were to use a crobar as a weapon, while the Gordan Freeman-esque attack with the curved end is appealing, I would much prefer to attack with the straight end. Assuming the crowbar is a standard 2 to 3 foot bar, holding it upside down would yield three distinct advantages. First, the bar would neven slip out of your hands due to the hook at the bottom. Secondly, the end would not get hooked on and stuck in or on whatever you're trying to hit. Thirdly, you can use the bar as a stabbing weapon. It also eliminates the need to constantly check if you're holding the bar in the right direction (hooked tooth foreward) during combat, but that is offset by the benefits of the sharp bit being more lethal.

Wow. That was rather random and boring. But I'd still hold the crowbar upside down if I ever actually had to use it as a weapon.
 
I'm willing to bet the crowbar animation wont be touched before the game releases. I also would prefer them to work on important things like Bug Fixing and code clensing, final art touches, etc.
 
ban me?? i can say my 0pinion. if you think the crowbar is so tight then u can have one give me a uzi and lets see how long u last against it thats what im sayin the crowbar is useless unless you are changing a tire or sumthing. as a weapon its ghey.
 
the crowbar animation is fine... gordon learned how to swing it in teh best wayz
 
=1nfiltrat0r= said:
ban me?? i can say my 0pinion. if you think the crowbar is so tight then u can have one give me a uzi and lets see how long u last against it thats what im sayin the crowbar is useless unless you are changing a tire or sumthing. as a weapon its ghey.
Click to expand...

grow up, stop using ghey. And one always has use for a crowbar :D
 
Line Bender said:
Well read the title, if you are a HL2 fanboy that starts frothing at the mouth with the grawling and the fangs and mwaheey...moivenhaven...you better stop reading here.
Click to expand...


LOL are you trying to sound like the scientist from the Simpsons? If so I got a good laugh out of that one lol.
 
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