Dark Souls Official Announcement trailer (Demon's Souls 2)

[Naph]

Action buttons sequences are common through all hack'n'slash. I still don't get Viper's arguement.

 

[VirusType2]

I am half teasing, but listen. Let's take it one at a time. In this post, I will address one thing.

A matter of fact:

mouse and keyboard is infinitely better than a console controller. ... We accept this as a universal truth.

on consoles we use an array of aim helping mechanisms

There should be no shortage of information (elsewhere) on how PC gamers straight dominate console gamers - so such that PC gamers have to be handicapped to make it "fair". And here is an entire write up, discussing how one developer nerfed the PC version of the game in order to make it fair against console gamers.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2011/1/24/


A matter of opinion:

> Now, I know Warbie likes to sit on his couch and relax and play a game. BUT NO, SON. You are in the game. You should be seated 12" - 18" from the monitor trying to climb inside.

 

[the cow says moo]

Personally I like mouse and keyboard for playing first person shooters and controllers for third person games(not shooters).

 

[Sheepo]

I actually read that whole thing a while back, it's pretty interesting, but it can hardly be chocked up to CONSOLE SUCKS, PC RULES. The whole article is about the porting of a competitive shooter, which is the really important distinction. For things that aren't heavily shooting based the difference in input precision is pretty inconsequential: driving, moving, platforming, slashing, they just don't require the level of twitch reflexes that makes the thumb stick limit matter. The controller advantages are obvious: the ease of holding them and the more strategically placed buttons. There are very few games where there are enough mechanisms that mapping them to a controller ends up making controlling clumsy. Quite the opposite, being adapted to a keyboard after years of use only barely makes you more adapted than some one picking up a gamepad for the first time. They both have their advantages and they both are more suited to certain gameplay. Neither is really better the other.

 

[Kyorisu]

There we go, as in finally someone who can admit it controls like shit.

No the controls are apparently different to the console norm. I don't know what that norm is because I stay away from console games generally especially shooters, yuck. Like I said it handles fairly well after the first time you kill yourself diving off a cliff. The fact of the matter is the controls are going to be better than Demons Souls.

It controls badly on purpose ? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

I propose you have no idea of how the game "controls" all you can see in that trailer is the PC walking across a beam you cannot magically see the person or script controlling that character. I also fail to see the point in bringing up the mouse/keyboard being superior argument. I know it's a superior control scheme in a lot of different areas but for DS a controller is fine. I don't feel limited in anyway except for when I'm using a bow and arrow (which admittedly is a lot of the time sticky +5 ftw).

Any other time I'd likely agree with you but this is Demons/Dark Souls we're talking about not a twitch based shooter. I actively play Monday Night Combat on PC with some ludicrous KD like 8.something which is only continuously going up as I regularly go 40/0 or higher depending on how fast I want to end a match. People who can actually aim are too busy playing other games but when one does show up they'll annoy the **** out of me as an auto sniper. Console kids can't aim so let's make the sniper rifle fire a gazillion rounds a minute and do heaps of damage. Grr.

And here is an entire write up, discussing how one developer nerfed the PC version of the game in order to make it fair against console gamers.

That is not what the article is discussing. You cannot play against console players. The article is discussing the fact that because console users require the use of aim assists when porting to the PC things like the sniper rifle were simply overpowered with a mouse. If they didn't nerf various things it'd just be one giant one click kill game.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Kyorisu/example.jpg - A typical round with some deaths (I'm strawberry 40/3). It's annoying how easy it is to steam roll in console ports and I'm not that great of a player. A high skilled person would kick my arse in any game but I'll kick the arse of any random pub player most days of the year.

Could Demons/Dark Souls benefit from a keyboard and mouse? Yes I believe it would but not to a great extent.

> Now, I know Warbie likes to sit on his couch and relax and play a game. BUT NO, SON. You are in the game. You should be seated 12" - 18" from the monitor trying to climb inside.

My PS3 is sitting next to my printer connected to my 120hz 23.5" Alienware monitor.

Massively off topic anyway.

 

[VirusType2]

Personally I like mouse and keyboard for playing first person shooters and controllers for third person games(not shooters).

I much prefer a mouse/kb in a 3rd person game. I use it all the time in Oblivion to very precise, devastating effect. It's many, many times better than any experience I had on consoles - not that they were terrible, they were quite adequate.

But when I see people playing Demon's Souls (gameplay) I cringe at the clumsiness of the player. Some of you say that's because they are not used to it or whatever. Well, OK - but why then, in several seconds of footage in the Dark Souls trailer - specifically intended to make the game seem good, they show a player fumbling the controls? Because it's just inherently sloppy: 3 different types of aim assistance in some games.

There are very few games where there are enough mechanisms that mapping them to a controller ends up making controlling clumsy. Quite the opposite, being adapted to a keyboard after years of use only barely makes you more adapted than some one picking up a gamepad for the first time.

This isn't about button mapping being a problem - this is about several different auto-aim mechanisms that console games always have to use.

And why is it that PC gamers must be "adapted after years of use", but you suggest console gamers must be complete newbies?

Rumour: Console Gamers Killed 360 vs PC Cross-Platform Play
They just outright sucked, apparently.

they brought together the best console gamers to play mediocre PC gamers at the same game...

The console players got destroyed every time.

Microsoft once tested Xbox 360 and PC cross-platform play on a range of different games. The idea was scrapped - allegedly because console gamers were getting pasted by PC players.

"Had they kept it alive it might have actually increased the desire of game developers and gamers alike to continue developing and playing rich experiences on the PC which would trickle down to the console as it has in the past."

So in essence, the gamepad's inferiority is significantly to blame for the drop in PC games. (Gears of War 2, Halo, Forza, etc.)

the ability for Xbox 360 and PC players to play online together was realised in 2007's Shadowrun - a game that allegedly 'gimped PC players' by giving console gamers a bigger handicap.

both have their advantages and they both are more suited to certain gameplay. Neither is really better the other.

I'm just speaking about in this game specifically. I'm not doubting the merits of a gamepad, of course.

 

[Kyorisu]

But when I see people playing Demon's Souls (gameplay) I cringe at the clumsiness of the player. Some of you say that's because they are not used to it or whatever. Well, OK - but why then, in several seconds of footage in the Dark Souls trailer - specifically intended to make the game seem good, they show a player fumbling the controls? Because it's just inherently sloppy: 3 different types of aim assistance in some games..

My earlier trailer comment still stands. Do you think they hire pro gamers to do the footage for a trailer? Heck no. All they are doing is showing off some gameplay and to an average person who probably isn't that proficient with a controller it looks great. They are marketing a game not a control scheme.

This isn't about button mapping being a problem - this is about several different auto-aim mechanisms that console games always have to use.

Well for DS that would be the auto-magical lock on, not that you have to use it. It's often wise to completely ignore it because it has a nasty habit of forcing your camera to face the enemy.

 

[VirusType2]

I've derailed the thread enough. What I was trying to say is that, after hearing you guys clamor on about how amazing this game is, I was jealous (that it wasn't on the PC).

But after seeing the trailer - it looks ... like a typical console game. And then...

well, I'll take a look when the gameplay videos come about. I'm sure it's a good game, and I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't. It would have been better on the PC.

 

[Kyorisu]

But after seeing the trailer - it looks ... like a typical console game.

Eh I like it. Some of the changes like an open world and relentless enemies got my attention.

well, I'll take a look when the gameplay videos come about. I'm sure it's a good game, and I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't. It would have been better on the PC.

Try youtube or something heck I think there was a link in this thread. Watch footage of someone who knows what they're doing. It would have been great on PC for sure. Non crap resolution would be amazing.

 

[Bad^Hat]

If it was a PC game, it would have tight, precise control and it wouldn't be catering to teenagers.

Good gosh those darn teenagers and their... plank walking.

I much prefer a mouse/kb in a 3rd person game. I use it all the time in Oblivion

Great example.

 

[VirusType2]

Good gosh those darn teenagers and their... plank walking.

I sort of liked the giant... bird.


OK, you've got the game with the giant... dog?

And now we've got the giant... bird.

How about... A half dog - half bird!

Hmm... what else can we simply scale up to incredible dimensions?

How about ... a giant enemy crab

Great example.

Thanks. Yeah, even in a game not even designed for 3rd person specifically, it's so much better.

 

[Gargantou]

VirusType2, yes because a keyboard totally gives you more precise control over movement than an analog stick does..*Rolls eyes*

What for?

For breaking this.

Plus, I think virtually every one in here has played Demons Souls.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I sort of liked the giant... bird.

Okay, so giant bird = catering to teenagers. Glad we got that out of the way.

Also, that SotC picture is photoshopped. I really hope you're aware of that. No idea what Tidus' face is doing there but I guess you're trying to make a point about japanese games in general now? Heck, if it applies to a few games, surely it applies to all! Oh wait, now I see where you got the idea that PC controls are always the ideal.

Thanks. Yeah, even in a game not even designed for 3rd person specifically, it's so much better.

Haha, how delightfully deceptive. Sure, let's make all third person games control like first person games with the camera pulled back a few feet. That'll work.

 

[VirusType2]

VirusType2, yes because a keyboard totally gives you more precise control over movement than an analog stick does..*Rolls eyes*

Mouse/KB gives you precise control over the direction you face - left/right, up/down - and therefore movement, since you move depending on the direction you face! Of course, you won't need (or want) aiming assists anymore either.

The only thing it doesn't give you precise control over is movement speed, where with a kb you have only walk and run. But how many different speeds do you need in this game? It looks pretty slow paced to me, and therefore 'walk' and 'jog' would work perfect, I think. (in fact that's all I see them do when they play this game).

Okay, so giant bird = catering to teenagers. Glad we got that out of the way.

No, the bird had nothing to do with it. Well, I don't know how to put it into words; but I'm obviously not the target audience.

No idea what Tidus' face is doing there but I guess you're trying to make a point about japanese games in general now?

Yes, of course. I was faulting the game in multiple ways, the control was just one of them. And yes, JRPGs are way over the top and they always make me laugh. It's just a game though, whatever. Have fun with your crazy Japanese stuff, by all means. I don't like it.


The bird doesn't even look right, because it's just a regular bird - it just makes the scale look weird. I mean, it's pretty cool, I guess is what I'm saying... It's better than fighting a tiny bird. Just why not some creativity there? I could draw a bird-like beast in a few minutes that looks awesome. (That's a good idea. I'm inspired by what I'm imagining)

OK, here is my terrifying beast:

I call it the Parkeet. But it's known in legend as the Budgie.

it's a tiny little bird, simply enlarge to make it terrifying.

Oh wait, now I see where you got the idea that PC controls are always the ideal.

Wow, I never even said that, in fact I thought I implied that -- absolutely -- gamepads have their place. I use them in racing games, but a steering wheel would be better - still I won't take away that they are better than a keyboard for driving. And you can use gamepads to great effect in games like GTA - although I really liked the Mouse/Kb much better because you have way better precision over aiming and movement (again, the direction you face). No need for auto-aim lock-on target features like consoles versions have.

I think a keyboard and mouse is ideal for a 3rd person action RPG like this one. Especially this one, since a walk/run combo would be fine (the standard way of controlling movement speed in PC games). Then you wouldn't have the problem facing the correct direction half the time, like I see in every gameplay video of Demon's Souls.

So everyone that says the game is super hard... I bet it would be a lot easier if it was on the PC with mouse/kb.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I really have no idea what you're trying to drive at with the bird thing (nice sketch ) or the stuff about japanese RPGs, so I'll just leave that well enough alone. Point being, a pad is absolutely more well-suited for certain games of this type. If the game has a greater focus on camera control, as in basically any third-person shooter, then of course a mouse is going to give greater precision. When the focus is on player movement and having greater freedom of movement independent of the camera, however, then analog control can be much better suited. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's absolutely crucial, just that it feels much more natural than a keyboard's rigid diagonal movement in many cases. As an example, I really couldn't imagine trading in the pad for a mouse/kb in Monster Hunter Tri. Granted, some of the bindings were a bit horrid, but that could be easily fixed if developers would pull finger and let us set our own. :frown:

I think a keyboard and mouse is ideal for a 3rd person action RPG like this one.

This is what I meant to imply by "always the ideal." Sorry for the miscommunication.

You're still wrong, though.

 

[Kyorisu]

For every giant bird there are a dozen unique enemies.

 

[Sheepo]

I'm sure it's a good game, and I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't.

Oh God. Let's show the character walking across a plank while the player - who apparently has never held a controller before - has an epileptic seizure. Jesus Christ, just press UP, dude.

Fable Dark

for mature "gamers"

"It's time you learned what a breast looks like."(R)


Further supporting my supposition that console games are overhyped shit and if they were worthy of interest, they would show themselves on the PC.

Hmmm.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I guess it is just really hard to get across the incredible sense of isolation and loneliness that you get when playing Demon's Souls just from videos or even watching someone play it. There are no cutscenes to speak of to take you out of the mood, the music is subtle at best, the locations bleak and harsh, the enemies never stop coming--each more difficult to handle than the next, you can't do more than emote to friendly phantoms and attack/die with black phantoms. It all adds up to an experience like no other that I have played. It really has to be experienced because it is nothing like anything that has come before it.

 

[Warped]

While talking about this game at work, my friend from work told me he needed a hack n slash for his friend's birthday. I told him I'd sell my unopened copy for $15 and I did, then he bought one himself on ebay. Apparently this friend of a friend loves playing God of War on Hard mode and is bored with it. I think he'll be pleasantly surprised....both of them actually

 

[VictimOfScience]

While talking about this game at work, my friend from work told me he needed a hack n slash for his friend's birthday. I told him I'd sell my unopened copy for $15 and I did, then he bought one himself on ebay. Apparently this friend of a friend loves playing God of War on Hard mode and is bored with it. I think he'll be pleasantly surprised....both of them actually

Hahaha! I will pray for his soul. Anyone going into this with a hack n slash mentally will be quickly shown the error of their ways. One does not simply walk into Demon's Souls. It is folly.

 

[Warped]

Hahaha! I will pray for his soul. Anyone going into this with a hack n slash mentally will be quickly shown the error of their ways. One does not simply walk into Demon's Souls. It is folly.

He is not walking into this. The man still plays retro hardcore games that are damn near impossible. He's been looking for a challenge and I told him about this game. Since he's been focusing his efforts on older games I hope he'll come back to modern times more often. But yeah he knows what hes getting into. I told him defeating a boss is like a game in itself

 

[Combine Hybrid]

I ****ing hated invading black souls...

 

[Warped]

* NEW TRAILER *​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG-N54keUbw&feature=feedu

 

[Acepilotf14]

I ****ing hated invading black souls...

that comic is actually about one of the characters you have to fight, I never had that problem with him

but uh
I was pretty pro when it came to pvp, I would nearly always win unless I was outnumbered

 

[Gargantou]

I gave up on Demon's Souls myself after beating that spider boss, just too much grinding required for my tastes and too little story.

I guess I might pick it up in the future but I consider it unlikely.

Of course, PSN going down before I started playing made it a lot more boring since I can't see tips from other players and stuff.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

so it wasnt just me who gave up on DS then?
Admittedly i gave up alot quicker (didnt manage to even do any bosses ;()

The hype for this game makes me wanna give it anther shot tho but i've got other games to go through the now so probably not. DS seems like the sort of game you play when you've got nothing else to play and requires alot of your time.

 

[jimbo118]

Oh man, my body is ready. I adore the art style, the character designs are excellent.

takemymoney.exe

 

[Warped]

I bought 2 copies of Demon's Souls but ended up selling one to a friend. I got the OST with it and an artbook though So I'm glad I kept it

 

[Bad^Hat]

Looks brutal. Really looking forward to trying it out.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Hey remember this game? Anyway here's a preview and it sounds pretty insane.

http://www.gamesradar.com/dark-souls-preview-look-size-thing/

You can find some footage of the level they're talking about on GT and other places, but they're narrated by one of the Japanese devs and his terrible, terrible translator.

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/dark-souls/13855 (scroll down to features, they're the GC 11 ones)

Also some info on invasions someone translated from a Famitsu article:

-Your phantom will look different based on what Covenant you have
-The "Dark Wraiths" is a Covenant. With this Covenant, you can invade players to steal their humanity (the most basic form of invasion)
-A player who was killed by an invader can write the invader's name in the "Book of the Guilty." Players of a particular Covenant can select a name from this list, invade their world as an "Blue Spirit of Revenge" (shown in one of the earlier screen shots) and kill them.

And the article in question, if you feel like braving an auto-translate (Chrome's doesn't make things a whole lot clearer): http://www.famitsu.com/news/201109/07049733.html

 

[VictimOfScience]

I have been on a media blackout of this one since my initial curiosity that could not be helped at watching the first trailer and reading the first info on the game because I want it to be as unknown and scary as when I first played the import version of Demon's Souls. It's really difficult to get such a fresh experience in gaming nowadays as you have seen so much of every game that releases thanks to everyone covering it ad nauseum on forums and media sites and blogs so in order to keep my original innocence (something you can't ever get back) I now refuse to look at any media that comes out on this. Still can't wait for release though!!!

 

[Naph]

Looks like an appearance from Rathalos...

 

[Bad^Hat]

Yeah, I'd avoid the latest couple trailers if you want to go in blind. I wish I had now, they show off a couple of ridiculous looking bosses which would have been a big "whoa" moment.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Yeah, I'd avoid the latest couple trailers if you want to go in blind. I wish I had now, they show off a couple of ridiculous looking bosses which would have been a big "whoa" moment.

Phew! Good to know. I've already seen some stills really quick just by going into threads and posts to warn other people of the damage seeing too much of a game like this can do to your first experience with it.

It's actually getting pretty tough to avoid exposure to games these days.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Someone on SA translated the review from Japanese magazine Dengeki. It's short and doesn't divulge many details, but there are a few general things like "there are traps" so I'll spoiler it for all you anal retentives. :>

To sum up: it's good, has a seamless, load-free world, and it's harder than Demon's.

Spoiler

Dengeki Review: Dark Souls - 90/90/95/95 (out of 100. Compare to Demon's Souls - 85/85/85/95)

• High difficulty that rewards a smart, cautious playstyle and punishes typical gaming skills. This isn't a game for everyone, but it displays a seamless, load-free and atmospheric open world to explore that showcases enthusiasm from the developers.
• Tense gameplay made for fans of Demon's Souls. Leveling up can relieve the tension some for players who are bad at this type of game.
• The game is designed to defeat players with difficult enemy locations, narrow areas and clever traps that can't be evaded the first time. Limited healing makes this a difficult game, especially for new players, but it's very rewarding when you finally complete it. Not for people who dislike gore.
• A refined Action RPG that requires players to learn from each death and develop new strategies and techniques while also showcasing great graphics and cutscenes. A difficult game for beginners, but it has plenty to offer them if they choose to stick with it. There wasn't an opportunity to play the game online, but the offline mode alone is attractive enough.
• The Good: Completing the difficult challenges is rewarding and the upgradable weapons and armor are fun to collect.
• The Bad: Lots of grotesque enemies.

Play Report

- Mr. Raider 1

• Even low level enemies are difficult and have the ability to climb ladders.
• Reserving your healing items for a boss fight can put you under pressure.
• The difficulty makes Demon's Souls seem cute.

- Mr. Danishi

• There are many places that can kill you. There are certainly traps, but you can be ambushed as well!
• Groups of enemies are scary. If you don't handle them well, three skeletons can be far more fearsome than traps and dragons.
• Numerous seamless environments.

- Mr. TDB

• Played for more than 20 hours.
• There's ground that breaks when you walk on it.
• The high difficulty makes the game satisfying.

- Mr. Raider S

• I'm bad at action games and couldn't clear the demo, but watching other people play is fun too!
• High places can make you acrophobic.
• I swear to complete the demo!

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Not sure I hate myself quite enough to play this one

 

[jimbo118]

Prolly will pick it up around Xmas time when I have a break.

Any mention of the story in those reviews? Wondering is there much of one.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Nope, but they released a few prologue trailers that explain it... sort of. No gameplay in here, and they only explain the premise of the story, or more the mythology of the world really.

Edit: See below for all the trailers in one.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Final part is up, which also contains all the previous parts. Seems gothic as hell.

 

[Krynn72]

I don't like fantasy stuff much, preferring realism over magical bullshit... but that sounded pretty ****ing awesome. I didn't get too far into DS' story, but could tell it had the makings to be pretty engrossing, and if that trailer is just a hint at what the setting and story is, then I'll be stoked to play it.