Discussion on the 7 Hours War.

[Tagaziel]

The thing about is that the 7 hour war didn't actually start untill the sattelite the gordon launched in the first game triangulated with the thousands of other military satelites to project a MASSIVE xen relay, which we now know to be the portal storms, from which came most of the Xenian creatures, then the combines on a scale greater than any nation could muster

Err, no, Jester.

Combine were not of Xen, therefore they couldn't utilize Xen relay teleportation technology. Proof? They posess no local teleportation technology, and dr Judith Mossman had to set up the system to emulate the Xen relay, showing, that the system was set for a whole different method of operation.

And what's with the satellite triangulating bit?

 

[Jester2000]

I know that the combine are not from Xen, but what i mentioned was that creatures from xen came in the portal storms along with the combine and som creatures from their worlds. Sorry if I kind of melded those parts togeather, fast typer I am. If you remember from the first game, gordon launched a sattelite, the lambda sattelite, into orbit, the combine used this satellite as sort of a lynch pin, a central access point from which they bounced the Xen relay's signals off other sattelits to cause the portal storms. Combine can perhaps emulate the Xen-like relays, it's how they got to earth, or perhaps they emulated their own portal relays to get troops onto different spots, and your right, I forgot that they possesed no local transport technology, so perhaps when they teleported from their worlds to Erth, they were there and had to move by what we would otherwise call conventional means. That however does not deterr the fact that combine are slow to wake but a highly mobil force when finally on their feet. In short, I do agree with your arguement.

 

[Shift]

"Also, the combine had the capability of transporting vast numbers of their army around the world in a matter of seconds"

thats where you are wrong jester.

The Combine did not have access to local transportation technology, thats why when Breen offered it to them that accepted his terms. The Combine forces came from the Citadels, and since most of the armies were fortified inside the cities defending against Xen wildlife in the Outland, they would have been caught in a meat grinder of their own defences and the Combine. In fact, I think actually the primary reason why they were defeated so easily.

 

[Tagaziel]

Additonally, Mossman explained, that the method humans employ for teleportation is different from that emloyed by the Combine. We use Xen relay, they use entanglement.

 

[XIII]

mabe combines r like the covenant from halo..

 

[madog]

ok well i want to see what the combine used to beat us because i know it is not what we are seeing right now. Think about it. If they can't contain a bunch of rebels who have never fought before, how good do you think the forces we have faced would do against our highly trained forces. I think they would lose terribly unless the force we are fighting now is not the original that was used in the war. I want to play in the 7 hours war to see the mega weapons and ultimate soldiers.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

mabe combines r like the covenant from halo..

But cooler.

 

[Costin]

"I have been asked to say a few words to the transhuman arm of Sector 17 Overwatch. I regret having to inform you that Doctor Gordon Freeman is on the premisis. Doctor Freeman is not human, he is a walking tank, you are all about to die, that is all"

Thas it you get the ideea.
I forgot that Breencast,so shame on me...

 

[kupocake]

It's pointless debating combine versus human forces, because the war wasn't ended by military power: it was ended by Breen surrendering. If he hadn't done so and the war had run its course, it could have been The Seven Year war for all we know, though it does seem likely that at the end of it all, Humanity would have lost anyway.

Remember: Seven hours for one man with power to lose his nerve, not seven hours for earth's defeat. Not that I would condemn Breen's actions, I think he did the right thing in a roundabout way.

 

[Asknoone]

Well, most of humanity was pretty much wiped out by 7-hours. I think it is fair to say that given another few hours, there'd be nothing left.

 

[Tagaziel]

Kupo, I don't believe the war would last that long. The Combine essentially walked over us - it's not some human vs. human conflict, as I wrote earlier, it's human vs. interdimensional evil empire with limitless resources conflict, which pretty much pits us as those to be defeated in Seven Hour.

Additionally, Breen's decision about surrendering couldn't end the conflict, as to my knowledge, he did not posess any sort of executive power, much less supreme one.

So, he begged for their mercy, trading local teleport technology (promise at least) for our 'survival'.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

It probablt onlt lasted 3 hours the most, I bet 1 hour & a half....

Just one of the many reasons why we lost:

 

[kupocake]

Well, most of humanity was pretty much wiped out by 7-hours. I think it is fair to say that given another few hours, there'd be nothing left.

I'd like Sauce with that. How do you seperate seven hours of war from the other 20 years of human opression?

Kupo, I don't believe the war would last that long.

Neither do I and that's the point. We don't know how long it would have gone on for if Breen hadn't intervened.

Additionally, Breen's decision about surrendering couldn't end the conflict

Except of course, the fact that he DID end the conflict is the one verifiable fact we actually have about the Seven Hours War. Eli and the Papers say so.

Another crazy piece of speculation: the seven hours war was staged and coveraged to make it look like Earth was totalled, Breen then surrendered knowing that despite the fact that the Earth COULD fight back, people were convinced they COULDN'T. Then the combine cemented their victory by 20 years of oppression that the human race never needed to submit to. And when it came to rebellion, they actually find it surprisingly easy to retaliate...

 

[Gordon-Shepherd]

also remember that the combine forces you have fought are all just modified humans, the combine have enslaed and modified many races for use. imagine huge alien combine or really fast alien combine, things like that. you thought striders were bad? dun dun dun!

 

[Tagaziel]

Doubt it, there's a wrecked military APC in the tunnels beneath City 17, partially embedded in the debris. Plus, the photo of exploding UN headquarters is pretty self evident. Additionally, look how red the sky is, suggesting massive onslaught or at least bombardment.

Plus, it's a press coverage. The caps title is all we know, and it says surrendered.

Surrender (military) also called capitulation — soldiers ceasing to fight and becoming prisoners of war, or an entire nation ceasing to fight and agreeing to follow the will of its opponent.

In Half-Life 2's case, the second part is propably true, as much of humanity was obliterated by the time Breen negotiated a surrender... makes Breen sort of a tragic hero...

 

[Shift]

I'd like Sauce with that. How do you seperate seven hours of war from the other 20 years of human opression?

Neither do I and that's the point. We don't know how long it would have gone on for if Breen hadn't intervened.

Except of course, the fact that he DID end the conflict is the one verifiable fact we actually have about the Seven Hours War. Eli and the Papers say so.

Another crazy piece of speculation: the seven hours war was staged and coveraged to make it look like Earth was totalled, Breen then surrendered knowing that despite the fact that the Earth COULD fight back, people were convinced they COULDN'T. Then the combine cemented their victory by 20 years of oppression that the human race never needed to submit to. And when it came to rebellion, they actually find it surprisingly easy to retaliate...

Breen pleaded for mercy to stop the the human race from being completely exterminated, not to stop the war. In 7 hours the Combine wiped out Earth's armies and then Combine would have wanted just to kill us all, so Breen stepped in to stop that from happening. The human race would have been completely broken and lost all hope at this point knowing that they were about to be enslaved, I dont think they would have had the heart to fight. The reason they rebelled was because of the return of Freeman who they saw as legendry leader, and the reason the Combine were battered at City 17 was because they were fighting beefed up versions of humans fighting with our sort of tactics, they were largely outnumbered and were taken by suprise. This force the rebels are fighting is nothing like the force that wiped out Earth's armies in a matter of hours.

 

[kupocake]

Breen pleaded for mercy to stop the the human race from being completely exterminated, not to stop the war.

Eh? "Breen stopped the war to stop our extermination, not to stop the war"?

In 7 hours the Combine wiped out Earth's armies and then Combine would have wanted just to kill us all, so Breen stepped in to stop that from happening. The human race would have been completely broken and lost all hope at this point knowing that they were about to be enslaved, I dont think they would have had the heart to fight. The reason they rebelled was because of the return of Freeman who they saw as legendry leader, and the reason the Combine were battered at City 17 was because they were fighting beefed up versions of humans fighting with our sort of tactics, they were largely outnumbered and were taken by suprise. This force the rebels are fighting is nothing like the force that wiped out Earth's armies in a matter of hours.

That's the story we're told, mediated through people who could have been manipulated by others, or who could have had an agenda for manipulating the information themselves. I'm not saying it's not true, just that when it comes to the Half-Life story, even what little we are told should not be considered as the entire truth. It is a game about intelligent tactics and political maneuveuring as well as things blowing the shit out of each other after all.

 

[TheGMan.]

I think the combine defeated earth in 7 hours with synths. I could be way off....

 

[Tagaziel]

I still say manipulation is far fetched. If it was a total manipulation, there'd be at least one dissident who would tell us the truth, or at least we could get a hint from Eli and Kleiner.

The newspapers are pretty self-evident - we were trampled. None of our current technology can possibly challenge the Combine without being extensively modified and upgraded (Hunter Chopper is a refurbished gunship, OSI a souped up assault rifle, SMG upgraded MP-7, as a cheap, efficent way to equip many, many soldiers...).

We were but one world occupied by the Combine. The bulk of their forces moved on, leaving only an occupation force. It's like II World War - Poland was crushed by the Wehrmacht due to our western allies betraying us and inefficent leadership. After splitting the country the German army moved into other places, where they were needed, leaving behind occupational forces, in form of KriPo, OrPo, GeStaPo, SS Totenkopf etc., which weren't pure military. What we see, is a converted human population for occupational tasks, and is qute propably not the main military force.

Why would the Combine manipulate us, I ask? It takes too much time and isn't foolproof. Crushing is.

 

[Shift]

I still say manipulation is far fetched. If it was a total manipulation, there'd be at least one dissident who would tell us the truth, or at least we could get a hint from Eli and Kleiner.

The newspapers are pretty self-evident - we were trampled. None of our current technology can possibly challenge the Combine without being extensively modified and upgraded (Hunter Chopper is a refurbished gunship, OSI a souped up assault rifle, SMG upgraded MP-7, as a cheap, efficent way to equip many, many soldiers...).

We were but one world occupied by the Combine. The bulk of their forces moved on, leaving only an occupation force. It's like II World War - Poland was crushed by the Wehrmacht due to our western allies betraying us and inefficent leadership. After splitting the country the German army moved into other places, where they were needed, leaving behind occupational forces, in form of KriPo, OrPo, GeStaPo, SS Totenkopf etc., which weren't pure military. What we see, is a converted human population for occupational tasks, and is qute propably not the main military force.

Why would the Combine manipulate us, I ask? It takes too much time and isn't foolproof. Crushing is.

The Western Allies did not betray Poland, I think you will find that when Germany invaded Poland, France and Britain declared war and Germany and Britain sent over the BEF to aid the French.

But I agree on everything else

 

[kupocake]

I still say manipulation is far fetched. If it was a total manipulation, there'd be at least one dissident who would tell us the truth, or at least we could get a hint from Eli and Kleiner.

I'm that little bit more willing to go above and beyond with a theory when we're talking about a computer game where space aliens cross dimensions to enslave the human race with an armada that included helicopters that mated with seals and plasmaguns. I also don't see why Eli and Kleiner would be in a position to rat on the conspiracy. Eli doesn't have proof of ALL Breen's schemes, just a deep-seated discomfort with Breen's position.

The newspapers are pretty self-evident - we were trampled.

I'm not one for reading newspapers and believing everything they say. Especially newspapers written on day one under the iron fist of an intergalactic super-power. The possibility exists that they don't tell the full story, of course, they tell even less than that considering they're a handful of photographs and headlines of course, but they're tied up in the metaphor of journalism. The UN building smoking is pretty good symbolism for the entire world crushed under-foot, but does it actually categorically prove that humanity was roundly defeated? No, but it certainly has the kind of significance to help paint a picture, true or not.

None of our current technology can possibly challenge the Combine without being extensively modified and upgraded (Hunter Chopper is a refurbished gunship, OSI a souped up assault rifle, SMG upgraded MP-7, as a cheap, efficent way to equip many, many soldiers...).

We don't know this for certain, having not seen this kind of scenario played out. The combine have improved our designs, yes, but that doesn't categorically mean that X tank can't take out X synth, just that X tank takes X synth out a lot less well than X combine tank would.

We were but one world occupied by the Combine. The bulk of their forces moved on, leaving only an occupation force. It's like II World War - Poland was crushed by the Wehrmacht due to our western allies betraying us and inefficent leadership. After splitting the country the German army moved into other places, where they were needed, leaving behind occupational forces, in form of KriPo, OrPo, GeStaPo, SS Totenkopf etc., which weren't pure military. What we see, is a converted human population for occupational tasks, and is qute propably not the main military force.

No one is debating this, I'm just suggesting that the strength of the initial force need not be all we assume to be, when the assumption hasn't got such a very firm base. I'm quite inclined to agree that yours is the direction that Valve will take, but that doesn't mean that at this point in time, the direction I'm speculating upon isn't entirely impossible.

Why would the Combine manipulate us, I ask? It takes too much time and isn't foolproof. Crushing is.

True enough, but they obviously see some benefit in it, or else Breen's dilly-dallying after surrender wouldn't have worked and we would have already bitten the dust. Perhaps that benefit is simply that their force isn't quite as up to the task as the entire earth has been lead to believe?

 

[Tagaziel]

Shift, the treaties Poland signed stated, that in the event of an invasion of Poland, they would send military help, in form of riflemen, tanks, navy, aircraft, not bombers dropping pamphlets on Germany, which weren't packed together, because they might injure a German, oh no!

Allright, France *did* do something. Send a few armoured divisions over the German border, which retreated as soon as they met resistance.

So much for keeping their word.

Additionally, why did the Allies refuse to give Polish soldiers, who fought valiantly, combatant rights? A prime example of this behaviour is the case of general Stanislaw Maczek, a commander, who won every single battle with his armoured division. After the war, he was forced to work as a bartender in Edinburgh, because he wasn't considered a veteran. And what about other thousands of brave men and women, who were sentenced to a life of misery, just because political interests (USSR relations) were more important than people who won the war.

Even Churchrill said, that we were treated unfairly.

We had the bravest and most developed resistance movement of the Second World War (Polish Secret State, anyone?),
We broke the Enigma code in the early stages of War,
We designed hundreds of little inventions that helped the war effort,
We took Monte Cassino,
We were the first to fight,

Thank you, "civilized West" for crapping all over us in our time fo need.

/offtopic-rant

kupo, the reason Combine actually let us live, may very well be the fact, that Breen offered the local teleportation technology. They invaded, but were possibly unaware of said tech, and total destruction of the species would destroy their chance of securing such an important asset. It hasn't been stated that Black Mesa Research Facility teleportation experiments were part of a larger program, so we can assume that their research was unique. With the BMRF a nuclear memory at the time of the invasion, Breen took the chance, and pleaded for their mercy, promising them local teleportation technology in return for halting the massacre.

Of course, he couldn't do it by himself - he was just an administrator, not part of the science teams at Lambda, that's why he needed Eli Vance, Isaac Kleiner and Judith Mossman. They would develop the technology for the Combine, and at a suitable time Mossman would give the signal, and the facility be raided for the technology. 20 years is a long time, hence Breens remark, that he was concerned that she wouldn't give the signal at all. Also, look when Gordon is inserted - the rebirth of local teleportation technology, a Red Leter Day as Kleiner put it. Then, when Gordon gets to Black Mesa East, the Combine hits the facility, hard. The reason they did not get the technology as they wanted it, was either the fact most operational procedures were memorized, not written down, or that another critical component of the local teleportation project, dr Isaac Kleiner was absent from the facility.

...my head hurts.

 

[Remus]

"I have been asked to say a few words to the transhuman arm of Sector 17 Overwatch. I regret having to inform you that Doctor Gordon Freeman is on the premisis. Doctor Freeman is not human, he is a walking tank, you are all about to die, have a nice day!"

Fixed:E

 

[mortiz]

It depends on the weapons they used. If they used some form of WMD's, imagine if they wiped out most of the United States and Europe and Asia in one fell swoop? If the Earth wasn't prepared for such as attack then it's not so much that the Earth governments surrendered as much as they were mostly wiped out. The Combine, given their advanced nature probably had the ability to hit every single military target simultaneously. The Combine could also disrupt any form of communication network and probably gain control of any form of military computers. What could Earth defend themselves with if most of the armies were destroyed in one go?

The Combine, while they may not appear all powerful in Half-Life 2 had surprise on their side remember.

 

[madog]

The American forces would never surrender. If this story were true, America would give them some trouble for at least a couple weeks or until they just start bombarding the planet with giant lasers from space.

 

[mortiz]

The American forces would never surrender. If this story were true, America would give them some trouble for at least a couple weeks or until they just start bombarding the planet with giant lasers from space.

Huh? Too right the USA would surrender, as would every other country, if there was a massive bombardment of nuclear warheads (or whatever an advanced civilization uses) onto the country. Specifically if they target both military and civilian targets. Breen knew what was coming beforehand so he was perfectly placed to arrange the surrender. We already know for instance that most of the world is inhabitable. That's not even mentioning potential EMP and other weaponry catered towards disabling electronics and communication roots. Sophisticated armies these days are so dependent on computers and electronics that they'd be particularly susceptible to this kind of attack. The Combine as advanced as they are probably had some way to release a massive EMP pulse prior to the invasion. The Combine are meant to operate on a scale that we can't even comprehend. They even have a huge factory capable of manufacturing Citadels like on a production line! (Taken from Raising the Bar). To them Earth might just be some backwater planet on the edge of their empire so beyond the initial invasion they've basically left a "Skeleton Crew". We don't know the scale of the initial Combine attack, and unless Mark Laidlaw wants to explore it in future games or write a short story on it we probably never will.

 

[madog]

usa would not surrender. they would really fight to the death and they would not listen to one man who is speaking out for the world. We fought to get our freedom and we would all die before that is taken away. Maybe that fight is still going on in America and scattered military forces are still fighting the combine. We have only seen one country.

 

[Epsi]

The way I see it, the Combine hit us hard, and hit us fast. They teleported citadels into all the major cities of the world. With even a rudimentary amount of advance intelligence they'd know the locations of our command & control facilities.

They teleport in with overwhelming force right where an enemy is least expected, right in the middle of your own cities. That immediately rules out a lot of the more extreme options; you can't fire a nuke inside your own city, for instance.

Imagine a citadel teleporting into Washington D.C. Within moments the White House, the Pentagon and Capitol hill are smoking piles of ash. In London, the same; Downing Street, the Houses of Parliament, and the Ministry of Defence. Our political and military leaders would all die in the opening minutes of the war. The military would of course still mobilise, but without any ability to form any coherent strategy in the face of an unprecendented attack by a veteran, experienced, alien, military machine we're talking no more than mere skirmishes. The chain of command would just fall apart.

I see the Seven Hour War as being analogous to the Iraq war. Shock and awe, disrupt the command and control, sweep in and watch your enemy fold like a deck of cards. Then once you scale back your invasion force to simply an occupation force, you start to suffer from the resistance, the guerilla war of insurgency.

 

[Cuthbert]

usa would not surrender. they would really fight to the death and they would not listen to one man who is speaking out for the world. We fought to get our freedom and we would all die before that is taken away. .

Oh you are the one and only nation fought to get their freedom!! I don't know how to respond that. You must be very young or naive, or maybe an ignorant American. No offense anyone.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

The way I see it, the Combine hit us hard, and hit us fast. They teleported citadels into all the major cities of the world. With even a rudimentary amount of advance intelligence they'd know the locations of our command & control facilities.

They teleport in with overwhelming force right where an enemy is least expected, right in the middle of your own cities. That immediately rules out a lot of the more extreme options; you can't fire a nuke inside your own city, for instance.

Imagine a citadel teleporting into Washington D.C. Within moments the White House, the Pentagon and Capitol hill are smoking piles of ash. In London, the same; Downing Street, the Houses of Parliament, and the Ministry of Defence. Our political and military leaders would all die in the opening minutes of the war. The military would of course still mobilise, but without any ability to form any coherent strategy in the face of an unprecendented attack by a veteran, experienced, alien, military machine we're talking no more than mere skirmishes. The chain of command would just fall apart.

I see the Seven Hour War as being analogous to the Iraq war. Shock and awe, disrupt the command and control, sweep in and watch your enemy fold like a deck of cards. Then once you scale back your invasion force to simply an occupation force, you start to suffer from the resistance, the guerilla war of insurgency.

Thats pretty much it, though we would have lost either way. The people who say "we could've won" are idiots and don't understand.

And you Americans stop saying "we would never have surrendered!" becuase you would. I don't say "If Churchill were here England wouldn't surredner" becuase we would.

Breen knew what was coming beforehand so he was perfectly placed to arrange the surrender.

DEAR GOD THE PLOT GUIDES GOT TO YOU THINK MAN THINK THEY COULND'T HAVE CONTACTED BREEN HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAS SHAW BEEN FEEDING YOU!

 

[Costin]

It depends on the weapons they used. If they used some form of WMD's, imagine if they wiped out most of the United States and Europe and Asia in one fell swoop? If the Earth wasn't prepared for such as attack then it's not so much that the Earth governments surrendered as much as they were mostly wiped out. The Combine, given their advanced nature probably had the ability to hit every single military target simultaneously. The Combine could also disrupt any form of communication network and probably gain control of any form of military computers. What could Earth defend themselves with if most of the armies were destroyed in one go?

The Combine, while they may not appear all powerful in Half-Life 2 had surprise on their side remember.

They used the Blitzkrieg-the strategy is almost flawless,this combined with a very advanced tehnology,they could wiped out all the Eath's defenses.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

usa would not surrender. they would really fight to the death and they would not listen to one man who is speaking out for the world. We fought to get our freedom and we would all die before that is taken away. Maybe that fight is still going on in America and scattered military forces are still fighting the combine. We have only seen one country.

Well that's dumb. They must have realized that the combine had already beaten them, any further fighting would only cause more civilian casualties. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Besides, the best they could do is last maybe another seven hours, then they would be overrun.

 

[Tagaziel]

Excuse me? USA would not surrender? Apart from the War of Indepenence and the American Civil War, there was no major military conflict taking place there, unlike Europe. When Combine struck, the USA pretty much surrendered instantly, as they weren't taking the idea of a hostile military force appearing out of thin air on American soil.

Europe however, is a different pair of brahmin altogether. Since the dawn of modern ages, all major military conflicts involving the western civilisation took place here, only to mention the Thirteen Years War, Hundred Years War, Napoleon Wars, I and II World War...

Plus, many countries of Europe had to constantly struggle for freedom, like my country (constantly fighting not to be Germany's pawn, opposing the Mongol invasion, opposing the Soviets in 1920, Polish Secret State, Poznan 1956, Radom, Ursus 1976, Gdansk 1980, regaining independence in 1989...), Ukraine (Orange revolution), France (French revolution), Germany (reunification of Germany in 1991)...

Besides, most of Americans are actually descended from Europeans.

 

[TheGMan.]

wtf, I really don't understand all this rambling on about how it didn't last 7 hours and other beef. The combine defeated earth in 7 hours.. As the newspaper titled said. Why even go forth with more arguements?


Everyone surrendered, meaning earth.

 

[Lamoidz]

wtf, I really don't understand all this rambling on about how it didn't last 7 hours and other beef. The combine defeated earth in 7 hours.. As the newspaper titled said. Why even go forth with more arguements?


Everyone surrendered, meaning earth.

QFT, when the combine came in our ass was grass pretty quick. Who knows what freaky deaky synths they sent in. lol Grizzly and madog are teh off topic-duo

 

[Shift]

There are waaaaaayyyy too many biased people on this forum, and especially on this topic. Maddog, keep you patriotic shit out of the topic, the Combine crushed the yanks just as they crushed Europe so stop with all your bullshit.

And grizzly, that rant further up the topic, you really dont have any idea how biased that stuff was, I mean you being a Pol yourself just clearly indicated that to me. Yes the Pols were great fighters in World War 2, but for god sake, if it wasn't for Britain and America we would have lost the war, they lost a shit load of men too you know, so show more respect for them, regardless of how you were treated after the war, yeah, i know about that too and personally I think its shocking, but dont go bad mouthing us tbqh!

On topic:

The Combine twated us, none of us know how but I can see Valve revealing how in some way in the future, so just let the discussion die or we will be going circles talking about it

 

[madog]

Im not so much patriotic shift, but you damn well know Americans never surrender. All I'm saying is I wish I could see the fight between Americans and Combine because I know we would put up a good fight. I would like to see the methods the Combine used to defeat such a powerful force.

 

[ranmafan]

I think any alien force that uses a power-cell as ammo (Overwatch rifle) would definitely have the upper hand. All it takes is one bullet to kill you, even with armour a rifle round can penetrate easily. Imagine a plasma or other energy-based weapon, which the Combine uses insofar as we can tell. I'd think it'd literally eat away your flesh and bones leaving nothing but fatal wounds. And they're fast.

And the worst nightmare anyone could have is the bouncing energy sphere. Anything that richochets in an enclosed environment (common in urban warfare) is hell, especially if it vapourizes you at a touch.

Yeah, the Combine would win handily.

I've been in the army before, I'd know a little.

 

[bigburpco]

The nukes couldn't even harm the citadels...

 

[Apocalypse89]

Im not so much patriotic shift, but you damn well know Americans never surrender. All I'm saying is I wish I could see the fight between Americans and Combine because I know we would put up a good fight. I would like to see the methods the Combine used to defeat such a powerful force.

Crushing a beetle(USA) isn't much harder than crushing an ant(most other countries). It would be pretty much the same: unknown enemy force with a huge technological and tactical advantage suddenly appears in the midst of cities, quickly obliterates the worn-out, fractured military units defending said cities, and takes control.