Do younger gamers expect too much?

[UndercoverBob]

The thing is, WE HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET. So we can't judge the game by its gameplay or anything. For right now, people can nitpick whatever the hell they want. Of course the game is gonna be fun but its the internet, people will complain

most of us here no that. the disscusion is if younger gamers exspect to mutch in gfx and dont appreciate good games.

 

[Deadly200]

console youth

I agree i talk to my friends at school they still think console games are soo much better then pc games (in my opinion most pc games are better then console games but there are some good console ones out there).

 

[Intamin]

Well, the quality of games hasn't been exactly spectacular as of recent. I haven't been adicted to a PC Game since Diablo 2. And I'm the type of person who enjoys playing computer games.

I don't think younger people understand what a great game is until they play. Even if they do play a classic game, they don't get the full experience because that game has aged several years.

I'm hoping HL2 will be an amazing game. Too bad it will only be amazing on the single player part of the game.

I haven't been truly addicted to a game since Starcraft and then I was minorly addicted to Call of Duty (but haven't bought the expansion yet as I'm waiting for it to go down to $20 ), but HL2 and CS:S might be the next addiction for me--especially when the quickie mods come out utilizing physics to the max. Oh yeah, and the fact that I've never played Counter-Strike, so that'll be new for me.

 

[perrkele]

That was an excellent post, Parrot of doom! While I'm still quite young myself ("only" 22), I wholly agree with you on most of the things you mentioned. Gameplay has always come before graphics for me. I was playing Opposing Force the other day and I remember thinking "why don't they make games like these any more?". Far Cry, for example, had a lot flashier graphics, but as a whole, Opposing Force was a much more enjoyable gaming experience.

However, the reason for the sort of nit-picking of graphics in modern games is probably the level of realism that is possible today. Back in the day people used to whine about these things a lot less, probably because things really weren't looking that amazing in the first place. When games start to resemble more and more the world outside, you also start to notice some of the glitches (however small) that there are. Like Valve said themselves, they could have made the characters in HL2 look even more realistic and life-like than they do now, but they realized that if they do that, the characters start to sort of "stand out" from the rest of the graphics, making them look out of place.

Some people choose to whine about these problems, some don't. I belong to the latter group. Like many others, I often notice these things, but I realize that they just aren't really that important. Just as long as the game itself is good, I'm a happy gamer.

Edit: Ouch, this thread really grew quickly!

 

[True_Eraser]

"Those who think that graphics matter, please, take it from somebody who has been playing games a great deal longer than you. They don't. What matters is playability."

Actually, they do matter a great deal, gameplay is more important, a gorgeous game that is boring may as well be ugly. But graphics improve the immersion. I never found sonic the hedgehog or doom very immersive, but more recent games very much so. Not ground breaking? are you mad? I'd like to see doom 3 or far cry do better facial animations or more realistic looking environments.

 

[UndercoverBob]

if you did a servey of gamers on there favorite game i bet none of them would say a new game they would all be like HL or DOD or deus ex and stuff why?. because they were new and inovative. i just dont think alot of younger gamers have seen these great games of yore and if were shown them they would apreciate newer games mutch better

 

[Edge]

You know you can just use a single period when you finish a sentance, you dont need 3. A ellipsys is totally out of place as you use it, and thats a pet peve of mine.

Yeah I didn't want to be picky... when I see funner I cringe

And only for humor.. you spelled sentence incorrectly :angel:

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Im pretty sure hl2 would kinda suck if it looked like Space invaders...

...much like space invaders would have been crappy if it were say - on paper.

Gameplay and graphics are not seperate the never were and never will be. In the past games may not have looked great, but without the graphics they had, they just wouldn't have cut it. Space invaders was a great game, however if games still looked like that now...I know I wouldn't bother with them.

 

[UndercoverBob]

look im bad at typing im sorry but can we plz stay on topic

 

[Homer]

younger gamers haven't seen deus ex? Try daggerfall.

 

[UndercoverBob]

iv played daggerfall whoa thats a great old game but under a killing moon is good too but its to hard

 

[The Mullinator]

iv played daggerfall whoa thats a great old game but under a killing moon is good too but its to hard

What is this daggerfall you speak of? I'm still having fun playing Dragon Warrior 1 on my NES.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

What is this daggerfall you speak of? I'm still having fun playing Dragon Warrior 1 on my NES.

A wonderous RPG...Where you have to get your blue square (The dagger) to fall from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen. Only, you have to make it hit the orange square (The enemy) which turns red of you hit it.

 

[The Mullinator]

A wonderous RPG...Where you have to get your blue square (The dagger) to fall from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen. Only, you have to make it hit the orange square (The enemy) which turns red of you hit it.

Coloured squares for graphics, simplistic gameplay, it sounds like my kind of game. :E

Too bad its an RPG that has advanced semi-3d graphics. You had me all excited but then I looked it up and found out it had highly advanced graphics.

You evil trickster. :frown:

/me goes back to playing text based Half-Life 1.

 

[UndercoverBob]

have any of you played under a killing moon for dos ? or lemmings LEMMINGS now thats a good game

 

[Bing_Oh]

iv played daggerfall whoa thats a great old game but under a killing moon is good too but its to hard

Under a Killing Moon was the pinnacle of full motion video adventure games. If you can get it to run on a newer computer, play it through to the end. It's immersive, hilarious, and has some GREAT puzzles.

Too bad Bill Gates bought out the creator of UaKM just for the rights to Links :flame: . That bastard killed Tex Murphy, one of the greatest adventure game heroes ever.

 

[UndercoverBob]

Under a Killing Moon was the pinnacle of full motion video adventure games. If you can get it to run on a newer computer, play it through to the end. It's immersive, hilarious, and has some GREAT puzzles.

ya that is one of my fav games anywhey to get it to run on windows XP

 

[Bing_Oh]

ya that is one of my fav games anywhey to get it to run on windows XP

Don't know if it's possible to get it to run in XP without an emmulator of some kind. www.unofficialtexmurphy.com used to have some of that stuff, but it's offline.

 

[UndercoverBob]

under construction

 

[Bing_Oh]

I've seriously considered cobbling together a bunch of old computer parts to make something that will run my older games...especially my old adventure games. Quest for Glory, Kings Quest, Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry (can ya tell I was a Sierra junkie back in the day?)...none of em will run on new computers.

Anybody know where I can get a 5.25 floppy drive?

 

[Edcrab]

Meh, I still play Half-Life mods, and unless their architecture is truly horrific I barely notice the "crap" graphics. Doom 3 may look awesome but even on its lowest possible settings my machine just can't run it online- when you're stuck with a shitty connection you soon learn to appreciate a game's less visual capabilities, namely its netcode and stability. Hell, I play games by spiderwebsoftware.com- that should tell you everything you need to know about my graphical standards

And even though this isn't the issue being discussed I can't help blinking stupidly at the concept of HL2 looking "ugly" or having "crap graphics". It looks at least on par with Far Cry's plastic world and although it lacks the enviromental detail of D3 it thrashes it when it comes to facial animation, but more importantly D3 doesn't have vehicles or big stompy walking WOTW rejects and epic squad battles.

Poorer graphics topped up by greater gameplay scope, in my opinion at least- although let's not forget D3's reliance on impressive shadows to disguise lazy texture usage.

 

[AudioStar]

As long as the screen isnt dark and I can tell what everything is, I don't really care for graphics. The graphics in CS:Source are just amazing though.

 

[She]

although let's not forget D3's reliance on impressive shadows to disguise lazy texture usage.

do you have a GPU that support the 512MB texture data used in DOOM3?? nope...

oh theres she again ... ALWAYS RIGHT ... RIGHT ON SHE!! RIGHT ON!!!

and that ladies and gentlemen, is called trolling.

 

[Platinum]

do you have a GPU that support the 512MB texture data used in DOOM3?? nope...

oh theres she again ... ALWAYS RIGHT ... RIGHT ON SHE!! RIGHT ON!!!

 

[Mr-Fusion]

The Doom 3 character textures are extremely low res.

This is Swanns head texture grabbed straight from the pack files. As you can see, it's woefully low res and in game you get to see how shit the models look with such crappy texturing.

 

[Edcrab]

do you have a GPU that support the 512MB texture data used in DOOM3?? nope...

I suppose you have a supercomputer that will effortlessly cope with five times the maximum capability of the Source engine? Please keep in mind that I'm not intentionally trying to be hostile to any developer's work here, as much as you seem to think I am. Heard of the phrase "tarring everyone with the same brush"?

I think it's fair to say that Source and the Doom 3 engine will both have a second life, as it were, when superior hardware appears (just read my oversized post in the *other* engine-ranting-haven thread).

 

[GuNzABlaZiN]

Gameplay > graphics. I still play HL1 and I still play DX1, you know why? Because the gameplay rocks, when I tell people about those games they go "why do you play those, the graphics are so shit, I play Doom 3, it's so much better". Last time I played Doom 3, the gameplay bored me. I have some of the newer games like UT2k4 which has pretty awesome gameplay, and even though I can run it in full detail with 4x aa/8x af, I can't tell the difference when I run the game in medium settings. So much stuff is happening that you don't really notice all the "minute details". I sure as hell won't notice an overlapping shadow when 5 combine are chasing me and I only have 10 health. Sure, sometimes you go "wow" from the effects, but that's not why I'm really playing the game.

 

[L337_Assasain]

I happen to be a younger then most gamer (15) yet some of my favorite games include starcraft, marathon, marathon 2, and the original unreal (they will be missed). I found these games to be extremely immersive, and i admit, i want games to have good graphics, but they don't need to be perfect. The only problem is when a game happens to take a step back on the graphics and physics aspect. I think source looks awsome, and the gameplay will be AMAZING
All in all, i'm an avvid (that is the word, right?) gamer, who will take games for what they are, not expecting perfection.

 

[Edcrab]

I think for the most part people are just shocked when games don't live up to expectations- I based my view of HL2 off of its Binks, so the graphics will hold no surprises; the only "disappointment" I can point to is my genuine surprise at the whole multiplayer portion thing.

The arguement goes "my god, shadows etc. are so basic, how can they screw that up?!", so ironically both sides of the debate point to the incident's simplicity- one saying "it's so minor, why complain?" the other saying "it's so minor, why not spend a little while to fix it?" but personally I don't give a flying beetle as long as it plays all right- I don't think the question is age, more opinion- even if I was eleven I might well feel the same way.

 

[L337_Assasain]

have any of you played under a killing moon for dos ? or lemmings LEMMINGS now thats a good game

LEMMINGS!!! I loved that game SOOOOO much...I always got them stuck though...DAMN PIPES...

 

[[[LuCkY]]]

Gameplay > Graphics.

Always.

Some of the best gaming of my life were spent on the Atari, Commadore 64, NES, SNES and so forth.

I haven't had as much fun as I did back then in years...

 

[The Mullinator]

The arguement goes "my god, shadows etc. are so basic, how can they screw that up?!", so ironically both sides of the debate point to the incident's simplicity- one saying "it's so minor, why complain?" the other saying "it's so minor, why not spend a little while to fix it?" but personally I don't give a flying beetle as long as it plays all right- I don't think the question is age, more opinion- even if I was eleven I might well feel the same way.

What may be a minor annoyance for the player is often a horrifying problem for the developer to fix. Just because it seems like a minor annoyance to us doesn't mean its a simple problem to fix. As a developer you are always very hard at work and you have to prioritize things to fix based on how much time they will take compared to how much they will effect the game itself. If Valve hasn't fixed it then it probably means it wasn't worth fixing in the time frame because other easier and more important things needed to be fixed.

 

[Gunner]

and that ladies and gentlemen, is called trolling.

And you know a thing or two about that don't you punk? oh the irony!...

Anyway YES young gamers expect too much, way too much. Their first pc was probably a P4 and their first game Farcry, that's why they don't see the evolution in terms of gameplay and graphics. Whenever I read someone complain about the graphics it's obvious to me he's hasn't been a gamer for long. Screw the graphics, honestly I'm not paying good money to watch a friggin' tech demo, I want to play the game and I couldn't care less if tables break right down the middle or in fifteen pieces.

Take a look at Fallout, it doesn't have 3D graphics or any AI for that matter, it's all scripted yet it's one of the best games I've ever played and many will say the same. You don't need good graphics, they're just a plus.

And UndercoverBob, all those FMV games like Under A Killing Moon, Phantasmagoria, 7th Guest, etc... they all sucked

 

[Edge]

hahahah Phantasmagoria

that game was so buggy... wasn't it like 5 CDs' too. Man I played that thing for like two weeks until I got sick of Windows 95 crashing.

 

[Gunner]

hahahah Phantasmagoria

that game was so buggy... wasn't it like 5 CDs' too. Man I played that thing for like two weeks until I got sick of Windows 95 crashing.

Yeah it was awful, bad acting and a blonde as a heroine

 

[Edge]

And you know a thing or two about that don't you punk? oh the irony!...

Ugh... do people not know the definition of Irony?

She was being hypocritical there is nothing ironic about what she said.

Ironic is closer to sarcasm than hypocritical.

 

[groovy]

well it's how it is... people who go to see movies want to see bigger explosions and bigger villains. it's the same in video games. kids are and will always be demanding bastards. in a way it works because it pushes game developers even harder to creat state-of-the-art game engines and fantastic plots.

 

[Edge]

Yeah it was awful, bad acting and a blonde as a heroine

I got stuck in the back yard and couldn't find the next "clue" I remember something weird about the dining room sequence.. other than that I just remember it being badddd and slow

 

[Gunner]

Edge so you actually played the game? you're braver than I thought! I gave up after two minutes.

 

[MindCrafter]

I don't expect too much