Do younger gamers expect too much?

CB | Para said:
Edge so you actually played the game? you're braver than I thought! I gave up after two minutes.
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Well it was pre Duke Nukem 3d and Quake. I was playing games like Wasteland, Warlords, King's Quest, and Mech Warrior so Phantasmagoria was an exciting new "genre" and it was marketed as a promising title. It just didn't live up to it hehe

If I remember correctly the chick was hot though lol :)
 
Well said, its all about gameplay. Graphics updates, just add more flavour...

I would just like to play the damn game.. enuf with the setbacks. :p
 
The Mullinator said:
What may be a minor annoyance for the player is often a horrifying problem for the developer to fix. Just because it seems like a minor annoyance to us doesn't mean its a simple problem to fix. As a developer you are always very hard at work and you have to prioritize things to fix based on how much time they will take compared to how much they will effect the game itself. If Valve hasn't fixed it then it probably means it wasn't worth fixing in the time frame because other easier and more important things needed to be fixed.
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Oh, you don't need to tell me that- rather typically, that was my point, but at least your misinterpretation of my view ensured a far more accurate description of what I was trying to imply :D

'Course, every time I see a "flaw" in Source (that subsequently gets pounced on by the rabid sect of the community) I keep thinking "If only there was HL2-themed MP to make people appreciate what else Valve had spent their time on." :hmph: Me, bitter? After all this time? Nah...
 
There is a classic example of graphics versus gameplay:

EA FIFA Football Series - Released year on year with a new gimmick. Fantastic graphics, all the real players from the game beautifully rendered, all the correct kits, every minor visual detail from players to stadiums painstakingly recreated, expensive commentator for your games. Gameplay is very poor however, so all the detail doesn't matter, the novelty wears off after about a minute.

Pro Evolution Soccer Series - No annual update, game is released when ready (current edition Pro Evo 4 out Nov), nice graphics, with realistic player animations, ordinary commentator, most players are in the game (some are not, as you have to pay for licenses), some stadiums. Fantastic gameplay however, with a nice learning curve, and the ability to continue to get better as you learn some of the lesser known intricacies of the game. Game never tires, will last years.

The moral of the story, gameplay is the key. But you already knew that.

PS - Sensible World of Soccer still the best footie game ever.
 
genocide604 said:
Well said, its all about gameplay. Graphics updates, just add more flavour...

I would just like to play the damn game.. enuf with the setbacks. :p
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Do you even read what you type? 5 minutes ago in another thread you typed the following regarding people downloading and playing CS:S without paying for it.

genocide604 said:
Meh, thats the way internet is.. im sure they have expected this.
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That is the way the game industry is.. setbacks happen. The set backs are entirely contributed to the warez scene in general after the Source was stolen... which you claim VALVe was sure to expect. :flame:
 
She said:
do you have a GPU that support the 512MB texture data used in DOOM3?? nope...
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Actually, its not the level textures that used up most of the data on your graphics card, its the normal maps. on Ultra settings the normal map compression is at its best and looks perfect.
 
You ain't whistlin' Dixie that young gamers expect too much.

D'you want to know one of my all-time favourite games? Autoduel.

Do you want to know which game I think has the absolute worst graphics on the planet? Autoduel.

But damn, it was addictive...

CB | Para said:
Yeah it was awful, bad acting and a blonde as a heroine :LOL:
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And BANNED IN AUSTRALIA!

Honestly, so many good games get banned or censored here, I reckon someone should write a song about it... heaven knows there's enough material...
 
Gameplay is the most important thing in a game. I totally agree. I'm 22 myself and starting using a computer when I was 7 years old. I used to play AlleyCat a lot. Great game. Graphics? There were none in those days. Nowadays I play a lot of "The Settlers 2" and "Civilization 2". The graphics aren't that good, but the gameplay is just awesome. I've played those games for several years and I always end up playing them again after long periods of resting.

I have also gotten the impression that todays 10-15 year olds only think about graphics and not about gameplay. I suggest they start playing some old games, and start understanding that back in the days we just needed entertaining games.

Btw: I think HL2 looks perfect.

Edit: Anyone remember Giana Sisters?
 
30 here.

Nice Piece there, Parrot.

Anyone remember "Dragons Lair" on the Amiga? now thats a perfect example, where graphics were supposed to cover for a lousy gameplay.
(think it was on 12 discs, lol).

Long live Spy Hunter, on C64.
 
Brian Damage said:
And BANNED IN AUSTRALIA!

Honestly, so many good games get banned or censored here, I reckon someone should write a song about it... heaven knows there's enough material...
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Well there was a "rape" scene in it :|
 
Well, after reading a couple of posts, I think we're witnessing a commercialisation of games here. The newbies in world of games get easily drawn by graphics and not the gameplay, which is harder to do than the graphics. I'm 20 - oh the wonders of Action Quake 2 and Civ II. I've tried with Civ 3 but it's already a bit too complicated for me...
 
Like most things in life the younger generation tends to take a lot of things for grantage, and that’s not a dig at the younguns, if we had the same graphics cards etc when we first started gaming then I am sure we would be guilty of the same.

I think when people have grown up with the likes of say an Atari or Intellivision then each step up seems to be a blessing. I guess the same thing goes for the younguns, but their steps seem to be so much higher :)

Ohhhhh those oh so classic PC Public Domain games like Commander Keen and Duke Nukem!
 
As what one may consider a "younger gamer", I feel that I have reasonable expectations when it comes to games. I do think that graphics are important to some degree. For instance, I'm not going to be too immersed with 2d sprites and the lack of a Y-Axis. The feeling of interactivity with your environment can be increased tenfold with the use of physics, thus enhancing the gameplay experience. There is an undeniable need to stay current in graphics.
I don't think that younger gamers can be specifically blamed for this need for increased eye-candy. Let's face it. There was a big difference between Space Invaders and Doom. The same applies to the pastelle environments of Super Mario to the lush 3d-in-2d look of Donkey Kong Country. We've been brought up in a time where games are always looking better and better and technology is improving at an extremely rapid rate. Because of this kind of environment, we expect a new title to be eye-poppingly gorgeous, and the next one after it to look even better.

But graphics are not key to a games success in terms of quality. Video, audio, and story are all important. But it's the gameplay that truly matters. If I'm having fun, then I can ignore inadequacies in other aspects. If I'm not having fun... Well, I won't even bother any more. I believe this is something most gamers, regardless of age, believe.

But this generation has born some overly-critical gamers that are content with bitching and moaning at anything that isn't state-of-the-art. You'll see these people blatantly ignore physics, modelling, and great texture work just so they can complain about shadows. Or perhaps throw a shitstorm when there's a lighting bug or a clipping error.

These people have lost the idea of what a game actually is.
 
Absinthe said:
But this generation has born some overly-critical gamers that are content with bitching and moaning at anything that isn't state-of-the-art. You'll see these people blatantly ignore physics, modelling, and great texture work just so they can complain about shadows. Or perhaps throw a shitstorm when there's a lighting bug or a clipping error.

These people have lost the idea of what a game actually is.
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I think it's mostly because broadband access is cheap that we see this kind of behavior. Before all we had were pc magazines, and feedback was selective, now anybody can post their thoughts no matter how rubbish they are.
 
I haven't been truly hooked by a game since Final Fantasy VII. That did have fantastic graphics for its time, but that had nothing to do with it. It was simply an amazing, deep and involving game that I couldn't put down. I finished if four times taking about 120 hours each time. That's almost 500 hours spent on one game.

In fact I might go start it again.

While I fell in love with HL and its mods, it was never the same as the impact FF7 had on me. Nothing will ever match that. A lot of SNES games also ate hundreds of hours of my life, as did my old Atari ST. Ah those were the days...

Nowadays most games get two or three hours of my time. The better ones will still never reach the dizzying 500 hours of FF7.
 
im a "young gamer" and my fave games are still super mario world and the streets of rage series, so you cant really put all "yong gamers" into a group of expecting too much from games. I dont realy care that much about the graphics of half life 2 i just wanna play the damn game, the graphics of hl1 arent anything special anymore but when you play that game, you just feel like you are there and having a shoot out with some grunts, GAMEPLAY
 
I am younger, yet I do not have anything against HL2's graphics.
Certainly, pretty games appeal to me, though if the game is not fun to play, I would not bother playing it to see some pretty candies.
 
Ecthe|ioN said:
Edit: Anyone remember Giana Sisters?
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I just saw your edit, hell yeah I remember Giana Sisters! I had on C64, lame mario rip-off but still fun :LOL:
 
Those who think that graphics matter, please, take it from somebody who has been playing games a great deal longer than you. They don't. What matters is playability.
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I'm over 30. Graphics really matter.

This is Swanns head texture grabbed straight from the pack files. As you can see, it's woefully low res
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Quick question - why didn't you also post the bump, normal and specular maps? because you don't understand their significance, perhaps?
 
Nice post.

I 100% agree, im 19, soon to be 20, I love games that have engrossing storylines and gameplay, But at the same time I cant truly enjoy a game because of my chosen profession, its my job to hunt out all the small niggles that get into games, so therefor i am always looking at clipping problems, Z-Fighting, map holes etc so i can never really have a great game. Im determined not to do that to hl2...
 
UndercoverBob said:
have any of you played under a killing moon for dos ? or lemmings LEMMINGS now thats a good game
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Under a killing moon rocked! It had like 100 cds though
 
I'm 32. I have a 9800Pro graphics card. I'm considering getting an XT800 PE, I like my graphics to look good, and I like blistering framerates.

However, if a game doesn't look 100% I'm not going to avoid buying it when the gameplay is worthy of 110%. I bought Doom 3, loved it, tried playing it with the highest settings I could. At first I just looked around and admired the details, as I had done with Far Cry 6 months ago.

Then I realised that Far Cry was rubbish to play, and I haven't touched Doom 3 since playing CS:Source. I'll go back to Doom 3, but there's just no real rush for me to do so, when I can have a blast on CS:Source.

I'm expecting Half Life 2 to be exactly the same. I've replayed Half-Life 4 or 5 times, Opposing Force and Blueshift at least twice. Half Life 2 is going to be the same, I'll be going back to it time and time again. And THAT's what sells it to me. I'm not really going to be too upset if it doesn't look as lush as Far Cry or as plasticky real as Doom 3.

As long as it plays well.
 
Yeah Im 21 and recently i found myself getting nostalgic about those old games like Flashback Moonstone Fade To Black n one of my all time faveorites Another World (also known as Out Of This World) the younger ppl now with games don't appreciate the gameplay as much as they do worry about the graphics looking good
 
I just wanted to indulge my nostalger as an aging member of the gaming comunity torember sneeking in to room to play KR karate+ on the C64 because if you disturbed the tapedrive it would fail. If that happned you would have to set it off again and wait another half hour. Now that was a cool game. Id also like to point out that they recon in 10 years time that they will be able to render at shrek 2 quality. And guess what they said the same thing about TRON and they where right.
 
Vamperic said:
Yeah Im 21 and recently i found myself getting nostalgic about those old games like Flashback Moonstone Fade To Black n one of my all time faveorites Another World (also known as Out Of This World) the younger ppl now with games don't appreciate the gameplay as much as they do worry about the graphics looking good
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Wow, you brought up Another World and Flashback!Im feel very tingly right now!.Im 18 and probably started pc gaming with wolvenstein and doom(I started with Xcite bike and the likes of those on Nintendo) which i loved!I remember when quake first came out, and everything was 3D.Quake's graphics were awsome! And then we went through the games until Half-Life came. Now Halflife didnt have great graphics, but it was and still is the best FPS to date(until HL2 is released).I know hl2 will be great, even without the graphics. Oh, and by the way.

HL2's Graphics are the greatest thing i've ever seen
 
Oh, and by the way, the barnacles in Half-Life are actually originated from the creatures in Another World which suck you up and spit out your blood (very disturbing as a child) Nice one Vamperic
 
Another world was a great game, although there was no dialog, there was a storyline present, great game.
 
Graphics does matter, not nearly as much as other things though.
I just think that "stuff" should be done right....

And to She:

Are you really(honestly) a girl? If so, what do you look like?
 
Do younger gamers expect too much? nah, I don't think so.

Think back 20 odd years to the C64, Spectrum, etc. and the latest state of the art games we played.
Then through the PC boom and stuff like 7th guest, Doom, even MYST. All heavily graphics dependant on the success of their sales and visually stunning at the time. Now? they look like mooses, and we've forgotten just how much we were awed by the massive leaps in graphics technology the PC games market was making. Today nothing has really changed, we are still sold initially on the visual impact of a game.

Of course graphics are important - granted older games look naff to us grandads now, but only because we're used to the graphics of such games as D3 and HL2 and accept them as the norm, like we did with the old stuff.

As for the old gameplay > graphics argument, well... that's subjective. If HL2 had vector graphics or quake quality textures, would it still receive 97% reviews, and would you still want to play it as much? Each element in the design is an equal link in a chain, be it gameplay, graphics, AI, physics, quality control etc. and if just one is pants the game will simply fall short.

Besides, I can't think of a single game I've ever bought (and it's been a few) that I haven't totally enjoyed playing.

Technology moves upwards and we move with it - but as it's such a gradual climb we just don't notice how far we've come until we look down.
 
Sharasment panda said:
Oh, and by the way, the barnacles in Half-Life are actually originated from the creatures in Another World which suck you up and spit out your blood (very disturbing as a child) Nice one Vamperic
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Hehe... used to scare my youngest brother with that game :)
 
you guys have to rember games like CIV which looked bad (even at the time) but is arguably one of the best games of all time
 
heeey, no body mentioned X-Com!!!!
grrrr

...me angry,
me want kill people!!!...
:angel:

no seriously this is the only game (series) that i enjoyed more than i will HL2! seriously
man i dreamed of the game evry night! i was like 12 or 13
whats really funny i've finished it a zillion times, now with these shitty Win2k and xp

...game work no more!...

btw, Amiga rocks, but saddly the FDD on my AMI500 died recently! ;(
remember: cannon fodder, utopia, k240, reunion, dune, lemmings, flashback, another world, turrican, super cars, defender of the crown, alien breed, chaoe engine, exodus 3010, gloom, breathless, err...what was that RPG game where you were a viking..., shadow of the beast, zeewolf (that helicopter game), the lost dutchman mine, syndycate, dungeon master, jet strike, dyna blaster, test drive, F1, street fighter, mortal combat, walker (that 2d robot game), top gear, terminator,........

i could go on forever :naughty:

those were the days!!
 
I think that graphics are part of the experience and can be part of the fun. For me, gameplay and story are the most important parts of a game. My first real gaming experince was PGA tour Golf (i think it was 1990 or so), that was lots of fun to play and at this time graphics didn't matter that much as today.

I even played System shock 1 only in 1999 (after playing SS2), of course the graphics were crappy for the time, but that game was definitely one of the best I have ever played. SS1 was simply fun!

I'm 24 btw :cheese:
 
Every single person here is expecting too much. It has nothing to do with age or graphics.
 
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