Does God exist?

Does God exist?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 49 40.5%

  • No.

    Votes: 72 59.5%
  • Total voters
    121
_Z_Ryuken said:
Do I think God exists? No.

Do I believe he exists? Yes.

What does that make me?

(confused = -10pts)
Click to expand...

I cannot think of any difference between think and believe at the moment, at least nothing obvious.

Gnostic atheist - "Knows" that gods do not exist.

Agnostic atheist - Does not believe in gods, but accepts their possibility because he does not know.

Gnostic theist - "Knows" that a god or gods exist.

Agnostic theist - Believes in a god or gods, but accepts he/she could be wrong because they don't know.
 
Ludah said:
I cannot think of any difference between think and believe at the moment, at least nothing obvious.
Gnostic atheist - "Knows" that gods do not exist.
Agnostic atheist - Does not believe in gods, but accepts their possibility because he does not know.
Gnostic theist - "Knows" that a god or gods exist.
Agnostic theist - Believes in a god or gods, but accepts he/she could be wrong because they don't know.
Click to expand...
There really isn't a huge difference, but my post was intentionally vague and misleading.
I do not think God exists because there is no verifiable evidence, but I believe he does because that is what I want to do, for personal reasons. :)

I find myself ocasionally talking (or rather thinking) to "God", whom very well might be myself, but why sell him out to atheism? I'm better off holding this belief.
 
The problem with the Gnostic Atheist definition is that anyone using logic accepts that there is a "possibility".

It's just an incredibly stupid possibility that makes no sense at all, and gets immediately Occam Razored as a result.
Space elephants in my closet, along with every fiction, are equally possible to some extent.
The question is not possibility, but plausibility.

As such, I'd say that all atheism follows the solid rule that god is implausible, while agnostics consider him/her to be plausible.
 
spookymooky said:
It doesn't mean he's wrong. Niether of you are wrong. English doesn't work like that. Unfortunately, both of your definitions probably apply, as definitions are defined by common usage.
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You can call a dog a cat for as long as you want, but that won't change what it is.

People may find it simpler to regard all of atheism as a single, narrow view. But they would still be wrong. The very structure of the word disproves them. No matter how popular such a misrepresentation gets, it is still that: a misrepresentation. Furthermore, this one in particular is often propagated in attempt to discredit atheism.

Atheism is, by all scholarly definitions, an absence of belief. But of course, you always get people who want to dance around that for some reason or another.
 
Ludah said:
I cannot think of any difference between think and believe at the moment, at least nothing obvious.

Gnostic atheist - "Knows" that gods do not exist.

Agnostic atheist - Does not believe in gods, but accepts their possibility because he does not know.

Gnostic theist - "Knows" that a god or gods exist.

Agnostic theist - Believes in a god or gods, but accepts he/she could be wrong because they don't know.
Click to expand...
No one knows if God exists.
 
Edit: Never mind. I misread Mecha's post, so this makes no sense.
 
I would say im a Agnostic atheist, I am open to the possibility of a god, but am highly doubtful.

I am also starting to hold people to belong to a specific (organized) religion in low regard. Not them as people, but that aspect of their personality.

" I know my religion is true" how do you know that, "i just do" you know there are billions of others that feel the same way about their religion, right? " um gulp, they're wrong!?!!!!!, i know it to be true" NO, you've been conditioned to think so.....you all have.
 
There is a difference between what is true, and what people know.

You can know something and be mistaken. Happens everywhere around us.

You are right, it does not make it fact, but in the sense it cannot be proven or disproven if God exists, "knowing" one way or the other is an accurate description of what people believe.
 
For years, catholic theologeains asserted that it was possible to prove god through logic alone, and they spent several centuries coming up with logic patterns that ended with the definate existence of god. This was accepted for a long time until science disproved or explained many of the assertions that they made to come to those points, and then the official message released was "have faith. Beleive even though there is nothing to prove it true, for there is nothing to prove it false"

And now religion revels in the fact of beleiving things that cannot possibly be true or fact, and takes the matter kind of proudly. That is yet another powerful antibody to skepticism.
 
Ryuken's got it right.

It's all about personal conviction. People have the ability to feel so certain in their beliefs, but be dead wrong in actuality. Religious fanaticism is the most recognizable and unfortunate example of gnostic theism.
 
How can anyone follow a major religion?
I just can't see how anyone could validate thoose beliefs to themselves.
 
Solaris said:
How can anyone follow a major religion?
I just can't see how anyone could validate thoose beliefs to themselves.
Click to expand...
It's easy?
Most people do not want to think for themselves. It's a built in defense mechanism to retain sanity and illusional happiness.

This doesn't say anything is correct or incorrect, but if you cannot believe in what other people believe in, and you cannot come up with your own answers to life, everything will seem pointless and chances are you will become suicidal.

For the most part, everyone follows some kind of belief, be it major religion, personal religion based of majority beliefs, science, or some other mystery.

It's the curse of human intelligence, really.
 
The problem with questioning what everyone else holds to be true is that you eventually realize that you can't know anything. That's why I would probably class myself as a nihilist...

On Topic, heres an awesome, related quote:

HL Mencken said:
Where is the graveyard of dead gods? What lingering mourner waters their grounds? There was a time when Jupiter was the king of the gods, and any man who doubted his puissance was ipso facto a barbarian and an ignoramus. But where in all the world is there a man who worships Jupiter today?

And what of Huitzilopochtli?

In one year--and it is no more than five hundred years ago--50,000 youths and maidens were slain in sacrifice to him. Today, if he is remembered at all, it is only by some vagrant savage in the depths of the Mexican forest. Huitzilopochtli, like many other gods, had no human father; his mother was a virtuous widow; he was born of an apparently innocent flirtation that she carried on with the sun. When he frowned, his father, the sun, stood still. When he roared with rage, earthquakes engulfed whole cities. When he thirsted he was watered with 10,000 gallons of human blood. But today Huitzilopochtli is as magnificently forgotten as Allen G. Thurman. Once the peer of Allah, Buddha and Wotan, he is now the peer of Richmond P. Hobson, Alton B. Parker, Adelina Patti, General Weyler and Tom Sharkey.

Speaking of Huitzilopochtli recalls his brother Tezcatilpoca. Tezcatilpoca was almost as powerful: he consumed 25,000 virgins a year. Lead me to his tomb: I would weep, and hang a couronne des perles. But who knows where it is? Or where the grave of Quitzalcoatl is? Or Xiehteculti? Or Centeotl, that sweet one? Or Tlazolteotl, the goddess of love? Or Mictlan? Or Xipe? Or all the host of Tzitzimitles?

Where are their bones? Where is the willow on which they hung their harps? In what forlorn and unheard-of Hell do they await the resurrection morn? Who enjoys their residuary estates? Or that of Dis, whom Csar found to be the chief god of the Celts? Or that of Tarves, the bull? Or that of Moccos, the pig? Or that of Epona, the mare? Or that of Mullo, the celestial jackass? There was a time when the Irish revered all these gods, but today even the drunkest Irishman laughs at them.

But they have company in oblivion: the Hell of dead gods is as crowded as the Presbyterian Hell for babies. Damona is there, and Esus, and Drunemeton, and Silvana, and Dervones, and Adsalluta, and Deva, and Belisama, and Uxellimus, and Borvo, and Grannos, and Mogons. All mighty gods in their day, worshipped by millions, full of demands and impositions, able to bind and loose--all gods of the first class.

Men labored for generations to build vast temples to them--temples with stones as large as hay-wagons.
The business of interpreting their whims occupied thousands of priests, bishops, archbishops. To doubt them was to die, usually at the stake. Armies took to the field to defend them against infidels: villages were burned, women and children were butchered, cattle were driven off. Yet in the end they all withered and died, and today there is none so poor to do them reverence.

What has become of Sutekh, once the high god of the whole Nile Valley? What has become of:

Resheph, Baal, Anath, Astarte, Ashtoreth, Hadad, Nebo, Dagon, Melek, Yau, Ahijah, Amon-Re, Isis, Osiris, Ptah, Molech?

All these were once gods of the highest eminence. Many of them are mentioned with fear and trembling in the Old Testament. They ranked, five or six thousand years ago, with Yahweh Himself; the worst of them stood far higher than Thor. Yet they have all gone down the chute, and with them the following:

Arianrod, Nuada, Argetlam, Morrigu, Tagd, Govannon, Goibniu, Gunfled, Odin, Dagda, Ogma, Ogyrvan, Marzin, Dea, Dia, Mars, Iuno, Lucina, Diana of Ephesus, Saturn, Robigus, Furrina, Pluto, Cronos, Vesta, Engurra, Zer-panitu, Belus, Merodach, Ubilulu, Elum, U-dimmer-an-kia, Marduk, U-sab-sib, Nin, U-Mersi, Persephone, Tammuz, Istar, Venus, Lagas, Beltis, Nirig, Nusku, Nebo, Aa, En-Mersi, Sin, Assur, Apsu, Beltu, Elali, Kuski-banda, Mami, Nin-azu, Zaraqu, Qarradu, Zagaga, Ueras

Ask the rector to lend you any good book on comparative religion: you will find them all listed. They were gods of the highest dignity, gods of civilized peoples, worshipped and believed in by millions.



All were omnipotent, omniscient, and immortal. And all are dead.
Click to expand...
 
I find this very shocked that more people on this forum don't think there is a god then the people that do but whatever. I do. It is not that my family is religious or anything but I was just raised that way to believe that there was a god. So I guess it just stuck.

Another reason I believe in god is because of my brother. He really needed 200 dollars or he was going to be in HUGE debt and possibly go to jail. He would pray every night regardless if he needed anything or not, he would go to church every Sunday and read the bible on his free time. Well anyway to get back onto my topic here he kept praying to god for 200 dollars and did not tell anyone about this. He came home from work one day and keep this in mind he has a high fence around his house and a dog with a neighbor that stays home all day and the neighbor did not here any dogs barking or anything all day but there was 200 dollars taped to his front door with not one trace of who did this. That is one reason why I believe in god.
 
So God pays off a 200 dollar debt to a good Christian, yet lets families of faithful Christians in Africa die of AIDS? (that HE created, cause virii like HIV could never come into existence through a natural process, right?)

I think God needs a priority check.

OT: If God exists, he must have been a Deity School dropout, he's a quack. The thing called "Intelligent Design" could better be refered to as "Stupidass Design". Perfection, my ass.
 
Darth Sidious said:
I find this very shocked that more people on this forum don't think there is a god then the people that do but whatever. I do. It is not that my family is religious or anything but I was just raised that way to believe that there was a god. So I guess it just stuck.

Another reason I believe in god is because of my brother. He really needed 200 dollars or he was going to be in HUGE debt and possibly go to jail. He would pray every night regardless if he needed anything or not, he would go to church every Sunday and read the bible on his free time. Well anyway to get back onto my topic here he kept praying to god for 200 dollars and did not tell anyone about this. He came home from work one day and keep this in mind he has a high fence around his house and a dog with a neighbor that stays home all day and the neighbor did not here any dogs barking or anything all day but there was 200 dollars taped to his front door with not one trace of who did this. That is one reason why I believe in god.
Click to expand...

Too bad praying doesn't do anything for the sick :dozey:

http://www.canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060403/TTLIFE05/604030411/-1/LIFE

I'm in the atheist category.
 
Praise jesus, he dun got 200 bucks fer praying!

If that's true, then I guess god must be a leading cause of inflation! (Imagine all that new money just materializing out of thin air, the prices of things would skyrocket!)
 
Indeed. If there is a god running this freak show of life, he's not somebody I'd admire or respect. I'd probably hate him, actually.
 
exactley. One of my favorite quotes: "Well, if your god is the biggot and the jerk and the power-hungry ruler you make him out to be, then I'd rather be in hell than in heaven with him"

I think someone on this board said it.
 
Here's something I heard on the local news a couple months ago, but I didn't want to mention it for fear of offending people.

Apparently, it has been statistically proven that sick or dieing people whom are very devout or prayed for, are more likely to not survive than those who are not prayed for.

Not saying it has any influence, it's just statistics.

Basically, either prayer does nothing and those stats mean nothing or it has an adverse effect and kills people, in which case they would be going somewhere so it's not all bad...
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Here's something I heard on the local news a couple months ago, but I didn't want to mention it for fear of offending people.

Apparently, it has been statistically proven that sick or dieing people whom are very devout or prayed for, are more likely to not survive than those who are not prayed for.

Not saying it has any influence, it's just statistics.

Basically, either prayer does nothing and those stats mean nothing or it has an adverse effect and kills people, in which case they would be going somewhere so it's not all bad...
Click to expand...

Interesting story Z_Ryuken, Now let me tell you all something. You guys have might thought from my last post that I am extremely religious and I go to church and pray and everything. Well I don't. As a matter of fact I have only been to church one or two times in my life. I can't say it was the most thrilling thing of my life but hey who can?
 
Ludah said:
Funny how you put up the "oh, I don't really care" gig after faced with reasoning showing how you're wrong.

You're not fooling anybody. And yes, I did have fun. :thumbs:
Click to expand...
No, what was funny was that I wasn't even arguing with you in the first place. But you being a creature of the Politics forum just jumped on me and quote-warred me into oblivion. All I said was that I thought you were Agnostic, and then when you said that you were an Agnostic Atheist, I didn't think such a thing really exists by the way I think of Atheism and Agnosticism. You replied with a crazy ass rant about how stupid I am, how I list my religion incorrectly, and then just hassled me about the definitions of two terms. So when I responded with "k I don't much care any more," you claimed your victory and got to shoot one more potshot at my face. So yeah, I guess you proved that my simplified definitions are so wrong that I am a complete bungling idiot who deserves nothing but insults :)

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself, freaky dude :)

Here, maybe this will make you giggle a bit more: You win! You're a better person than me! Everything you say is right! Go you! Let's all worship Loodah. You are winnar!
 
The reason prayer adversly affects people is because it creates stress for the individual being prayed for. Individuals who were prayed for by a large team of people and knew about it were far more likely to die, becuase they thought it meant they were truly sick and they "had" to be prayed for, so stress hormones were released, which made their operation more likely to kill them.

The only way prayer works is if the people who are praying for you are very close to you, do it publicly with you, and make you feel loved while doing it, becuase this releases endorphins which makes the patient more relaxed and more likely to recover from surgery. They are equally as likely to survive with family bonding or even watching a funny television show.
 
theotherguy said:
exactley. One of my favorite quotes: "Well, if your god is the biggot and the jerk and the power-hungry ruler you make him out to be, then I'd rather be in hell than in heaven with him"

I think someone on this board said it.
Click to expand...

You'd choose an eternity of suffering(you're talking about hell and how the bible describes it), just because of your perceptions of god? Wow... that's some balls. I'm sure you'd instantly regret that decision if it ever happened. Eternity is a long time <chuckles>
 
Raziaar said:
Eternity is a long time <chuckles>
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Heh, ya it is.

Gotta love the infinite punishment for the finite crime deal
 
Hell is just eternal life without god.
Basically, it's what we have now, except with immortality.
Plus, everyone worth hanging out with is in hell or hellbound.

By all accounts, hell is totally radical.
It's a pity that it isn't real.
 
Erestheux said:
You replied with a crazy ass rant about how stupid I am, how I list my religion incorrectly, and then just hassled me about the definitions of two terms.
Click to expand...

1.) I never insulted your intelligence or anything about you. Perhaps that's your own indignation.

2.) Neither atheism or agnosticism are religions.

3.) I merely said agnosticism isn't comparable to atheism. You challenged that, and I naturally replied. Honestly, what the hell did you expect?

4.) I'm sorry, did I make you uncomfortable when I "hassled" you for misrepresenting the fundamenetals of atheism? You can't say shit like "there is no such thing as agnostic atheism" and expect me (an agnostic atheist) to just stay tight-lipped about it, especially when you straw-man my belief, or lack thereof.

But of course, you eventually decided to take the mockery route "lol i dun liek arguing about werds". Why? I don't know. I would think it would be easy to at least acknowledge the distinction between atheism and agnosticism, but you never did such a thing.
 
On another note, how many of you fear death? (Not the pain involved during death)
 
Deep down I do believe there is "something" and i honor the Christian tradition, so in that case you could call me a christian.
Yet i dont believe about 99% of the gospels, and consider most of them simply moral stories.
I usually never think about the matter "if there is a god" nor pray and go to church (only with marriages or deaths), so i dont really know what to call that situation :p

Also, i disagree with the comparisson of faith and the "rationalism" of for instance science.
Faith is tied to what you "feel", which is something you cant compare.

You can simply believe or not believe, just for "whoever's" sake, atheists and religious people, leave each other alone about the matter. Debating this issue is so pointless :)
 
I'm voting no because I have seen no total proof that He exists, and that He is all powerful and omnipotent and whatnot.

I'm not agnostic, I'm aethiest.

Although, weirdly enough, i'd feel a lot more comfortable if someone out there did know what was going on.
 
I vote yes because I do believe that God does exist and I can feel that he is helping me to know what truly life is about.
 
Ome_Vince said:
Also, i disagree with the comparisson of faith and the "rationalism" of for instance science.
Faith is tied to what you "feel", which is something you cant compare.
Click to expand...

Fair point, and I'm inclined to agree. Such a debate is usually only brought up when a theist tries to "prove" their God while simultaneously claiming he/she/it is beyond the scientific process.

Keep in mind, however, that feelings can be misattributed. It is always important to find and examine the source of them. A gut feeling is simply an indicator. It is up to the human mind to find out what prompted it.
 
Ludah said:
2.) Neither atheism or agnosticism are religions.
Click to expand...
Haha, anybody remember when PoseyJMac tried to argue that atheism was a religion?

Man, that guy was such a dick. I'm glad he's banned.
 
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