Does God exist?

[Solaris]

I definitly believe in a god.....maybe not word for word like the bible says, but there is no way something this complex could come along just randomly.

Actaully it can

Look at that, it's called Conways game of life.
It's a small computer game, with some very simple rules, but out of this simplicity really complex things can evolve from it.

 

[Space Farm]

I'm athiest.

But if there was/is a god it wouldn't be anything like it is portrayed in the bible or by christians or whatever. Religion is one of the worst things to happen to mankind.

 

[Space Farm]

Actaully it can

Look at that, it's called Conways game of life.
It's a small computer game, with some very simple rules, but out of this simplicity really complex things can evolve from it.

What created these rules? :smoking:

 

[Cole]

And today, I found one proof that God exists because I saw nature and I was thinking to myself, there are trees, grasses and every living things around us. Humans cannot create nature and I knew that God created it. I thought to myself that.

What? Humans cannot create nature? Uhh....ok.... Whats your point and how does that provide any proof or any logic for a god? Humans didn't create everything. Humans are NATURE. We are ANIMALS. We just discovered LANGUAGE, which may have possibly propelled our brains beyond that of any other because we can communicate so easily and so rapidly.

I believe in God because I can really feel that he is helping me to seek the truth in life step by step. And I agree, healthy sceptism is the only cure, but sadly christians (I think other religions too.) reject sceptism and just simply said that "because the Bible says so," when being asked where can you prove that God exists.

You can feel him? Are you sure that just isn't a gut instinct you have their? I have a gut instinct.

And randomly? Nothing is random. Because everything must happen for a reason. If I drop a ball is it random that it will hit the grass beneath me? No it is because gravity brought it down to he grass. It happened for a reason, gravity. How I think or if I decide to move my arm is not random, it's because there are physical laws applied on me, my brain, everything that caused that. There is no such thing as random.

Now this is a theory, the Universe was once basically nothing but atoms floating around, and they slowly combined forming suns, and then a bunch of these were found in a massive(but small compared to the universe) and they are clustered and formed galaxies.

Now what are the chanes that there would be a planet suitable for life? You pick a number.
With the Hubble Space Telescope, we have been able to estimate that there are 100's of billions of galaxies. There are about a 100 billion stars per galaxy.
Now a planet capable of producing life might be.. 1 every trillion.

That is A LOT OF PLANETS THAT ARE CAPABLE OF LIFE.

Now how did the Universe get created? Well I don't know. But guess what I would like to find out, not just say someone else did it.

 

[Solaris]

What created these rules? :smoking:

A person. But however that is irrelavant, so don't think you've just defeated my argument with an incredable piece of wit.

Our universe is ruled by just a few rules, granted they're a bit more complex but thats it.

 

[theotherguy]

Then who created nature? Tell me who then.

Is it martians who created the Earth? If not, then who? I should ask you.

Again we have a red herring. Asking that question is like asking "then who holds the world up?" or "who makes it rain?" Asking those questions will likely lead to the other person being stumped, because it is an irrelevant question.

Asking "who?" assumes that there is someone doing it, when in fact there is no-one doing it, it is simply the end result of rules and the playing out of those rules.


The world holds itself "up" because it is orbiting the sun due to gravitational distortion, it rains because water molecules condense into clouds and then into liquid water. They do this because of heating from the sun, and all of this is caused by yet a deeper set of rules at which those things are the end result.

Similarly, you cannot ask "who created the universe?" because you are assuming that someone created it. It is the same question as the others because the universe we see is the end result of a dozen simple rules playing out over the course of history. A better question would be "why are there rules?" or "how did the rules come to be?"

and by saying "who created the universe?" you could also ask "who created god?" Because if something so "complex" cannot arise from randomness and nothingness, then how can god arise from randomness and nothingness? For surely, if god created the world he must be more complex than the world itself, and one of you has already stated that the world is certainly far too complex to be generated by randomness.

 

[kirovman]

People are easily led, like sheep. Even the bible acknowledges this, refering to people as "flocks" in need of a "shepherd".

 

[theotherguy]

People are easily led, like sheep. Even the bible acknowledges this, refering to people as "flocks" in need of a "shepherd".

I know, I always found this rather sickening. I go to church every week because I am forced, and almost every week they celebrate being sheep, and not making their own choices. In fact about 80% of the sermon's usually come to the conclusion that you shouldn't think, and follow the church blindly like sheep.

The most disgusting thing I think I have seen there was when they had children come up and began singing "I just want to be a sheep. baa baa baa!" And I can't seem to come up with a reason why nobody else in my church is disturbed by this.

 

[Solaris]

I know, I always found this rather sickening. I go to church every week because I am forced, and almost every week they celebrate being sheep, and not making their own choices. In fact about 80% of the sermon's usually come to the conclusion that you shouldn't think, and follow the church blindly like sheep.

You're being forced to go to church?
Ha, suks to be you.

 

[theotherguy]

well you know, parents can be very convincing, seeing as they have the power to take away everything I own and kick me out if I don't conform. So I go in person, but not in spirit.

 

[Yuri]

Some of you really have to stop standing on that barstool proclaiming authority over others' opinions, and belittling them because you disagree. Frankly, you are making fools out of yourselves.

 

[Ikerous]

So I go in person, but not in spirit.

I go to church and bible study every weekend cuz I like it (Even though I'm athiest)
It's not bad. I don't even attend the same church that my parents or that any of my friends go to.

I think its a combination of the great music and the pretty girls ^_^

 

[Solaris]

Over here all the pretty girls go to nightclubs.

 

[Yuri]

He was probably talking about pretty underaged girls. You know Ikerous

 

[Ikerous]

He was probably talking about pretty underaged girls. You know Ikerous

Actually.. you're right D:
The ones I'm referring to are mostly under 18

Also you tend to find more innocent (non whorey) chicks in churches compared to nightclubs
(Of course there are plenty of both in churches)

 

[Ennui]

I'm atheist with spirituality rapidly developing into a non-commital form of buddhism.

I'll be honest, I find it amusing that people try to rationally defend their beliefs. It's not like you need to defend your reasons for believing in god, though if your faith is truely deep then you owe it to yourself to question it.

Belief is meaningless if you refuse to accept the possibility that you're just responding to a lifetime of conditioning. Think about everything from every angle, get all the perspective you can, and if your faith remains absolutely strong after all that, then you'll already know that you don't have to justify it to anyone else.

It's the people who believe because they've been brought up to do so and have this deeply conditioned feeling of God that they believe is real but isn't, and refuse to listen to reason or rationale... that's what I love arguing with.

 

[Solaris]

It's the people who believe because they've been brought up to do so and have this deeply conditioned feeling of God that they believe is real but isn't, and refuse to listen to reason or rationale... that's what I love arguing with.

me too

 

[el Chi]

I'm not entirely adverse to the idea of some form of higher being or power, but certainly not one of the religious deities; religion is far too full of holes to have been devised by an utterly perfect being.
Most of the time, however, I'm atheistic.

 

[clarky003]

I'm with Chi, It all really depends on your definition of a 'god', for instance the personification of a 'god' as a supernatural individual, or something energy related that is beyond comprehension that permiates the whole of reality binding everything.. making everyone and everything part of it.

Those are the most distinct interpretations, I personally think that their could very well be some substance because of the clear rule set that reality follows.

So to help understanding I find it useful to question reality. It follows rules obviously, evolution is undeniable but even for that process to exist it has to follow more fundemental rules, so how did those rules come into being? could they of been created? and I truely believe science can get close to an answer or atleast a decent comprehension someday.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Some of you really have to stop standing on that barstool proclaiming authority over others' opinions, and belittling them because you disagree. Frankly, you are making fools out of yourselves.

Exactly why I'm not going to bother arguing with these people.

 

[Apos]

Exactly why I'm not going to bother arguing with these people.

Logic isn't the same thing as "opinions." If something is flatly illogical, that's that, no matter what anyone believes or thinks.

 

[Solaris]

Well I don't actually believe that we exist.

"I think, therefore I am" is wrong.
Consiousness is an illusion.

 

[theotherguy]

We used to have these kind of arguments every day in english class (of all places) and it usually ended in my english teacher getting very upset for the rest of the class and hating us all for being "degenerate kids"

She especially didn't like when I brought up the flying spaghetti monster :cheese:

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

*smacksforehead*

Agnostics are as real as God.

/giveup

 

[JNightshade]

When it comes to religion, you could call me a "non-devotional pan-follower". Meaning I really don't believe in god, or at least in ways that most do, but I think every religion has good sides. Jesus said to love your neighbor. Buddha preached a path of moderation. Muhammad taught his followers to have a sense of humility. I take these messages to heart, while ignoring the fact that some Christians hate gays, some Muslims mistreat women, and some Buddhists... well, I guess my only "beef" with Buddhists is that they're vegetarians

So yeah. That's my take on things.

 

[Element Alpha]

nevermind

 

[PvtRyan]

We're all here talking about how bad either side is.

But do you know what the real evil is?

It is:
"I don't believe in God, but I believe there is something."

Sadly it's like half the population that follows this very enlightened and educated view of the world.

But meh, guess this belongs in the "phrases that piss you off" thread.

 

[Qonfused]

When it comes to religion, you could call me a "non-devotional pan-follower". Meaning I really don't believe in god, or at least in ways that most do, but I think every religion has good sides. Jesus said to love your neighbor. Buddha preached a path of moderation. Muhammad taught his followers to have a sense of humility. I take these messages to heart, while ignoring the fact that some Christians hate gays, some Muslims mistreat women, and some Buddhists... well, I guess my only "beef" with Buddhists is that they're vegetarians

So yeah. That's my take on things.

I'd have to agree. We, more or less, share the same thought.

The Bible confuses me. Everything is so vague in each way. All religions interprete the Bible differently to set themselves apart from one another. I don't get it. Religions (under Christianity) all worship the same God but have different values. Everything can and is interpreted every way possible.

I also don't like organized religion. Gossip is all it's about. "Did you hear what she did? Did you hear what she said to..." FFS. Isn't that against the 10 Commandments? If you do something wrong, you're looked down upon and given a line of scripture that says you were wrong. Everything is a ****ing guilt trip.

 

[Jintor]

I'm atheist with spirituality rapidly developing into a non-commital form of buddhism.

I'm with you. Nam-myo-ho-renge-kyo.

(This is a mantra used by a particular sect of buddhism which, while I like it very very much, i don't know the name of. I like to think this proves I'm really apathetic.)

 

[DeusExMachina]

We're all indifferent in our own ways.

 

[Steve]

No YOU suck.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Wha-What D:

 

[Steve]

Dunno. Huggles?

 

[theotherguy]

I can see this thread getting locked very soon if you guys keep up the flaming/spam.

 

[Apos]

Agnostics are as real as God.

Yeeeeessss......

And each one is either an atheist or a theist. That's just plain logic.

 

[Yuri]

Yeeeeessss......

And each one is either an atheist or a theist. That's just plain logic.

Hahahaha.

Man, I hope you lead an interesting life as the intolerant, narrowminded, egotistical asshole that you are.

I think my time is better spent just laughing at your general stupidity.

 

[Sainku]

And each one is either an atheist or a theist. That's just plain logic.

You can be an atheist or theist and still be agnostic though. Nothing when discussing belief in the existence of deities has anything to do with logic. Especially the statement you made.

 

[el Chi]

It follows rules obviously, evolution is undeniable but even for that process to exist it has to follow more fundemental rules, so how did those rules come into being? could they of been created? and I truely believe science can get close to an answer or atleast a decent comprehension someday.

I think that saying they follow "rules" is more of a semantic issue - certain processes can be observed to follow similar patterns, etc. but existence is far more arbitrary than that. There's a lot of hit-and-miss involved - for every minor evolutionary step forward (so to speak) there are millions of instances of stagnation.

*smacksforehead*

Agnostics are as real as God.

/giveup

Care to explain?

 

[99.vikram]

Agnostics are just confused :|

 

[Saketi]

I dont believe in religion, as i liek to do my own this & believe in what i want to belive in. MOst religions u have to follow rules, if you break these rules? They will either kill you or kick you out. Its abit like whats happeing in C17, but without the religion.