Does God exist?

[Raziaar]

Nothing tangible can be infinite. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

 

[Solaris]

Actually I may be wrong.

The universe being finite is not believed as strongly as I thought it was.

 

[Raziaar]

Just because it is larger than you may be able to comprehend, doesn't make it infinite.

 

[CptStern]

This thing looks cute too as a little kitten Although i wouldnt want to be near it when it grows up

apples to oranges ...all lions will kill you on sight, dogs wont

 

[Solaris]

Just because it is larger than you may be able to comprehend, doesn't make it infinite.

I understand the concept of infinity.
I just clicked that new scientist article, and it turns out its about if the universe is finite or not, which I thought was beyound debate these days, but apperntly not.

 

[Ludah]

EDIT: You know, I wrote a big reply, but now I've deleted it all since I've lost interest in participating in this further. I've said my piece often enough, and that's the furthest it will go.

 

[Yuri]

Man, you just don't give up.

If you read any of the sources you keep mocking me for not comprehending, you would see that the definition of atheism is something that is extremely disputed between authors and scholars and all that. You act like you have this aura of superiority around you when in fact there are many instances within the very sources you quote that contradict what you dictate. You also blatently accuse the people who disagree with you of being ridiculous, and treat them as if they were fools. When will your mockery and authoratative attitude ever stop? I would not question the intellegence of someone who is disputing in favor of your side of the argument, and I wouldn't go so far as to say they are definately wrong. But since there is, unquestionably, dispute of the definition of the word "atheist," it should be left up to what people think of the word when you say it. What do people think when they hear it? They think you do not believe in god. Therefore, I am not an atheist, and you are just arguing with this false sense of authority over everyone. I will not be labelled an atheist, because that gives the false impression that I am something that I am not. I am agnostic.

You actually disregarded both answers.com and the definition from Webster's dictionary I provided. Clearly you are more sophisticated and schooled in the subject as they are, being lowly dictionary definitions of the term. All of the sources you have shown me have shown dispute about the term, yet you speak of them as if I am a moron who cannot comprehend English because of the golden indisputable truth that they hold. So far you've found no instances which act as if the definition were so definitive, yet you act as if you have.

You post in an extremely condescending manner. If you cannot realize that, then you have some more problems than that superiority complex. I'll admit I post in a sarcastic way so long as you admit you think you're better and more intelligent than anyone who dares to disagree with you. Here we go: I'm sarcastic. :thumbs:

And one more point about answers.com. I still find it quite hilarious that you actually disregarded two dictionaries. Apparantly answers.com (an online dictionary) "defies the structure of language itself." You are so high and mighty that you are now above dictionary definitions.

The·ist n.
One who believes in the existence of a God; especially, one who believes in a personal God; -- opposed to atheist.

The opposite of a theist would be an atheist. The opposite of one who believes in the existence of God would be one who does not believe in the existance of God. Agnostics such as me are neither. Not everything is so black and white, Ludah.

the-ism n.
1. belief in god or gods
2. belief in one God; monotheism: opposed to PANTHEISM, POLYTHEISM
3. belief in one God viewed as creator and rler of the universe and known by revelation: distinguished from DEISM

I also fail to see how the dictionary you quoted actually backs you up. I don't see the broader definition there, at all, all I see is "the disbelief in a deity" which is something I do not have.




Let me ask you why you want to go on your agnostic witch hunt? Is it because you disagree with me when I request for another option in this poll? Or is it because you are so self absorbed that you think you are attempting to "help" me by showing me "the holes in my rationale?" So far we have been arguing something that scholars have been arguing, and I don't see how you are winning, as I am saying I'm not an atheist in the terms that most people I've ever talked to know, and you're saying I am an atheist according to people who think atheists are those without religion. I will label myself, and I don't need your holy brilliance to guide me through my ignorance, thanks. :upstare:

 

[Asknoone]

No.

 

[Yuri]

EDIT: You know, I wrote a big reply, but now I've deleted it all since I've lost interest in participating in this further. I've said my piece often enough, and that's the furthest it will go.

You know, I read your reply, responded to it, and you made this edit.

I am an agnostic, not an atheist, and you have no proof to further back yourself up.

Cheers on that last stab to make me look like an idiot for replying to something you just deleted, by the way. Smooth.


I can't vote in this poll because there is no option for me.

 

[Ludah]

Cheers on that last stab to make me look like an idiot for replying to something you just deleted, by the way. Smooth.

I made the edit before you made your post. Look at the time stamps. Tsk, tsk. Insecurities.

Blah, blah, blah, "you don't give up". Hypocricy is a bitch. I proved you wrong time and time again, but you resist any kind of reason. Not my problem though. I don't ask you to read authors for the sake of reading authors. My primary goal is to expose you to logic, regardless of disputions. Because as much as you want play around with some soft, fluffy, amorphous idea, the sad fact is that logic is black and white. Zeros and ones. You just like trying to weasel your way out of dealing with it.

 

[Yuri]

You never proved me wrong once, and you have such little faith in your argument that you even deleted your last comment. Perhaps that had something to do with ignoring two seperate dictionary definitions?

I never once defied logic, and neither did you. What we were arguing was the definition of a word that is disputed between all kinds of scholars. But logic is not black and white, unless you oversimplify it until it stops being logical at all. My problem with you was more that you were forcing your interpretation of a disputable subject onto me, and treating me as if I were a lost, ignorant child.

Sorry, I had refreshed the page when I made the post, and it still showed your post unedited. I don't know why, but I must be insecure because of it!

 

[Ludah]

You never proved me wrong once, and you have such little faith in your argument that you even deleted your last comment. Perhaps that had something to do with ignoring two seperate dictionary definitions?

No, I just got tired of beating my head against a brick wall.

The only definition I contested was the answers.com one, which was fallacious in the way it defied the word's etymology and focused on a single narrow extension of atheism. The main problem with this entire argument was that you could never wrap your head around the distinction between denying the existence of gods and simply not believing in them.

But I've gone through all this before.

 

[theotherguy]

Science alert:


Nope it's finite alright.
You can't be near to inifity as no matter how big something is, it's always got infinite space between it and infinity.

sorry a bit of semantics here. I was saying "nearly infinite" to mean really really big. As in, closer to infinity than 1 billion or 1 trillion is. I mean, 100 trillion stars is ALOT of stars, and that also means potentially alot of planets. I didn't mean to state the misconception that the universe is infinite. There also may be a massive number of universes as well, bringng the probabability of one being just like ours even higher.

 

[Solaris]

Erestheux, how can there be no option for you?
Do you belive in a god? It's not asking for your school of thought, or your reasoning, just a yes or no question.

 

[Solaris]

sorry a bit of semantics here. I was saying "nearly infinite" to mean really really big. As in, closer to infinity than 1 billion or 1 trillion is. I mean, 100 trillion stars is ALOT of stars, and that also means potentially alot of planets. I didn't mean to state the misconception that the universe is infinite. There also may be a massive number of universes as well, bringng the probabability of one being just like ours even higher.

1 is as close to ininfity as 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 is.

 

[Yuri]

Erestheux, how can there be no option for you?
Do you belive in a god? It's not asking for your school of thought, or your reasoning, just a yes or no question.

Haha, you can't be serious. :smoking:

 

[theotherguy]

1 is as close to ininfity as 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 is.

no it isn't. 1 is clearly a smaller number than 1000000....0, therefore 1000000....0 must be closer to infinity than 1.

given x, y and z
y>x
z>y

(z-x)>(z-y)

this is of course assuming infinity is a defined number, which its not. infinity is more like a function. so its really hard to compare a number to a function, because the function just keeps going.

The point I'm trying to make is that I used a hyperbole to describe a situation. I 'm sorry. It would be like saying "I ate a ton of cake"

 

[Ikerous]

Haha, you can't be serious. :smoking:

"Do you believe in god?" (What solaris asked) Is a yes or no question
"Does god exist?" (What the poll asks) is not

 

[DeusExMachina]

If you don't know if a god exists or not, then "do you believe in god" should be null because obviously you don't know and can't form an opinion about it.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[Ikerous]

"Do you believe in god?" Could be re-worded as "Are you a theist?"
And the answer for agnostics and atheists alike is no

 

[DeusExMachina]

But then it's not really the same thing anymore. I would just answer "No, I'm agnostic." Someone else might reply "I'm a polytheist."

 

[Ikerous]

But then it's not really the same thing anymore. I would just answer "No, I'm agnostic." Someone else might reply "I'm a polytheist."

Good point I was only looking at it from a theist, athiest, agnostic perspective (Mostly because thats the only type of replies that are represented in this thread)

Actually I was mostly trying to point out that from Yuri's view on religion, that "Do you believe in god?" Has a yes or no response while "Does God Exist?" Doesn't. (Which I'd imagine you'd agree with since you'd reply with "No, i'm an agnostic" Which is exactly what I was trying to say) Really nothing more.. although my followup on it might've sucked a bit

And did you ever reply to this post?
If you did I mustve missed it and I was curious what you had to say about it

 

[DeusExMachina]

To that post you linked, well I do know witches exist. They're more commonly known as wiccans now. My mom happens to be one.

With the unicorn bit, that's using more...logical deduction if you will since there's actual evidence that unicorns never existed (unless that bit in the Bible about Noah not taking them is true). I don't believe the mannerisms, actions, and existence of a God can be proven or disproven with logic. A God (if one should exist) operates above logic, it acts above the very universe.

 

[Ikerous]

To that post you linked, well I do know witches exist. They're more commonly known as wiccans now. My mom happens to be one.

With the unicorn bit, that's using more...logical deduction if you will since there's actual evidence that unicorns never existed (unless that bit in the Bible about Noah not taking them is true). I don't believe the mannerisms, actions, and existence of a God can be proven or disproven with logic. A God (if one should exist) operates above logic, it acts above the very universe.

Well.. I obviously wasn't referring to those kinds of witches...
But I think I get what you mean on the second part. Interesting.

 

[nutcrackr]

I'm an atheist and I like long walks along the beach

 

[Jintor]

Why should I respect his beliefs when he's done nothing but act like a prick since the beginning?

Because reacting to someone being a prick, by being a prick, just makes you a prick instead of an intelligent person.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Well.. I obviously wasn't referring to those kinds of witches...

Oh, sorry

 

[Bull Goose Loony]

voted no, if there was a god, i dont think it'd be what the christians think because watching a world of people getting along and never doing anything would be far too boring.

 

[Yuri]

"Do you believe in god?" (What solaris asked) Is a yes or no question
"Does god exist?" (What the poll asks) is not

Yeah, that's true, I didn't take the time to fully comprehend Solaris' post, as he previously stated that I should be able to answer the poll question, which I cannot.

So no, I do not believe in a god.


I would also agree completely with Deus with the unicorn bit. If there is a god, it is on a spectrum above or seperate from the logic we understand, but a unicorn or witch is not.

 

[Ludah]

Because reacting to someone being a prick, by being a prick, just makes you a prick instead of an intelligent person.

Don't mistake pointedness for being a prick.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

God exists regardless of whether we can prove he does or not. He's existance is not determined by whether or not we can scientifically prove he exists. If it was, then he wouldn't be much of a god.

 

[Double_Blade]

God exists regardless of whether we can prove he does or not. He's existance is not determined by whether or not we can scientifically prove he exists. If it was, then he wouldn't be much of a god.

I agree... It depends on people's theories and beliefs.

And for me, God does exist.

And, man, Ludah, you got courage little man, but I feel sad for you that even if you are beaten, you still won't even give up your stupidity.

 

[Sulkdodds]

God exists regardless of whether we can prove he does or not. He's existance is not determined by whether or not we can scientifically prove he exists. If it was, then he wouldn't be much of a god.

God exists because we can't prove he exists?

 

[Solaris]

no it isn't. 1 is clearly a smaller number than 1000000....0, therefore 1000000....0 must be closer to infinity than 1.

given x, y and z
y>x
z>y

(z-x)>(z-y)

this is of course assuming infinity is a defined number, which its not. infinity is more like a function. so its really hard to compare a number to a function, because the function just keeps going.

The point I'm trying to make is that I used a hyperbole to describe a situation. I 'm sorry. It would be like saying "I ate a ton of cake"

Your wrong, and then right.

Infinity is not a number.
Even if it was:

Infinity - 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000=inifinity
Infinity - 1 = infinity

So you see I am mathmatically correct.

 

[Double_Blade]

Check out this webby for more info

http://www.doesgodexist.org/

I think this will answer questions and with theories.

 

[nutcrackr]

God exists regardless of whether we can prove he does or not. He's existance is not determined by whether or not we can scientifically prove he exists. If it was, then he wouldn't be much of a god.

lollercoaster :dork:

 

[Jintor]

Don't mistake pointedness for being a prick.

If it comes across as being a prick it is, for what good it does, the same as being a prick.

 

[Jintor]

God exists because we can't prove he exists?

I think he's saying that God exists regardless of whether or not we can prove that he exists.

Which I guess is more or less true. I guess proving he exists would collapse the waveform theory anyway :thumbs:

 

[Ludah]

And, man, Ludah, you got courage little man, but I feel sad for you that even if you are beaten, you still won't even give up your stupidity.

Ha! Don't make me laugh. Blade, if you got some problem with me, please just let it out in the open. Until that point, move away. Your dribble is staining my shoes.

And yes, we know you believe in God. You've said it about 5 times now. We get the point.

 

[Double_Blade]

Ha! Don't make me laugh. Blade, if you got some problem with me, please just let it out in the open. Until that point, move away. Your dribble is staining my shoes.

And yes, we know you believe in God. You've said it about 5 times now. We get the point.

Staining your shoes? What nonsense, if you are interested, we can discuss this further in PM. Anyway, sometimes I won't even bother to reply and just press the cancel button and be done with it.

You really hurt people's beliefs, mocking me because I believe in God? Outrageous! You really need professional help.

Anyway, I won't fiercely argue with you anymore. And I know it's pointless to beat around the bush too.