Does it bother you when people speak their native language?

[flamingdts]

flamingdts, I think Sherpa is more concerned with the fact that you would make the assumption that anyone who looks a little browner than you speaks a foreign language at all, let alone English as a second language.

Where are you getting this from? I make the assumption that a person of another nationality speaks their own native language. Maybe not all of them do, but I assume that they do.

Do you not make the assumption that a chinese person most likely speaks chinese?

I'm not judging this by color, I'm judging this by ethnicity. I assume a Jewish to speak Hebrew, so what? I don't expect a random brown skin person to speak a particular language unless I know their nationality, I'm not ignorant enough to assume all brown skinned people speak a particular language.

 

[Krynn72]

Where are you getting this from? I make the assumption that a person of another nationality speaks their own native language. Maybe not all of them do, but I assume that they do.

Do you not make the assumption that a chinese person most likely speaks chinese?

Only if we're in China.

 

[jet_porkins]

Where are you getting this from? I make the assumption that a person of another nationality speaks their own native language. Maybe not all of them do, but I assume that they do.

Do you not make the assumption that a chinese person most likely speaks chinese?

I'm not judging this by color, I'm judging this by ethnicity. I assume a Jewish to speak Hebrew, so what? I don't expect a random brown skin person to speak a particular language unless I know their nationality, I'm not ignorant enough to assume all brown skinned people speak a particular language.

I get what you're saying, but how often are we going to KNOW the nationality of a person walking down the street, let alone if the person even speaks another language? If the person is an immigrant from another country, fine.

 

[flamingdts]

Only if we're in China.

Then I guess we can agree to disagree because from where I live and grew up in, everyone with the exception of one or two knows how to speak their own native language. I went to an English International school, so I have many friends from different background (some even raised in Hong Kong). I assume they know their native language, and most of them in fact do. The Japanese people that went to my school in Hong Kong speak English and Japanese. They however, don't speak Cantonese at all. Same goes for the caucasians that went to my school. They live in a cantonese speaking area, but they only speak English. I assumed they know how to speak their native language, but I didn't assume they know how to speak cantonese because they lived in Hong Kong.

I get what you're saying, but how often are we going to KNOW the nationality of a person walking down the street, let alone if the person even speaks another language? If the person is an immigrant from another country, fine.

This isn't my point at all. I absolutely do not go around the street expecting people of a particular skin color to know something. If I know their nationality, I assume they know their native language. That's all I assume, nothing more or less.

 

[Jintor]

To assume anything based on appearance is racist!

\o/

Growing up in Australia, I don't assume crap about people based on what they look like.

Dts, the History of Our People and Our Culture are linked but seperate things.

 

[15357]

I assume that people are foreign if they are white or black. I believe that may be a reasonable assumption, considering that 99.9% of the population is Korean.

 

[Jintor]

This is probably a good time to mention that I dislike the typical asian (or perhaps merely just Chinese) practice of bowing to tradition in all things.

 

[15357]

This is probably a good time to mention that I dislike the typical asian (or perhaps merely just Chinese) practice of bowing to tradition in all things.

Tradition? What is tradition, exactly? The way of life that you've known for many years, so much that you do not find the need to do something new? Or something else entirely?

Me, I dunno. Sometimes I find traditions the right thing to uphold, other times I find them unnecessary and obsolete.

 

[Jintor]

They're just things people do because people have done them before, whether or not they make any sense.

They can still be fun though. Festivals yaaaaaay

 

[15357]

Yep.

Money-giving-to-younger-family-members-tradition is the one I find most rewarding.

 

[flamingdts]

To assume anything based on appearance is racist!

\o/

Growing up in Australia, I don't assume crap about people based on what they look like.

Dts, the History of Our People and Our Culture are linked but seperate things.

I'm not assuming based on appearance am I? I have never ever supported anything that is a skin color related assumption. Never Ever. Although previous posts by others imply I did.

I'm assuming based on nationality. I'm assuming a chinese person knows how to speak chinese. Where is the racism in that? Think of it this way. I know you're chinese, so I assume you celebrate chinese new year. Is that racist?

Like I said, some of us see it as important to uphold and pass on traditions, some others don't. I see it as important to know the tradition and culture in which you were born out of, but you may think differently.

I'll repeat, I absolutely do not support any skin color related assumptions, because that is not just ignorant, but completely unjustified as well.

 

[13LACKBISHOP]

I picked sometimes. I have no problem with people speaking there own language so long as they learn the language of the counntry there in.

 

[Azner]

Judaism is a religion, not a culture. Hebrew would be part of a Jews culture.

Perhaps this is a bad example because 'Jewish' is not a race.

Indeed. Jewish may mean a person whose belief is Judaism or a person who goes along the race of a Jew. Besides, my knowledge let me to think Hanukkah was celebrated by the Jews in race. Am i wrong?

A better example be Chinese new year. A chinese person be he american(haha no capitals), British, German or Canadian or Singaporean in nationality would probably still celebrate it due to tradition hence Culture?

 

[Azner]

No they shouldn't. If they want to, they can, but why should anyone do anything they don't believe in? To honor the ideas of people who didn't even know you would exist, let alone give two craps about you?

Aparently i am very wrong here. I thought Hanukkah was a Jewish race celebration, not a Judaism religious one. See my post above

 

[Eejit]

Of course you don't have enough evidence, that's why it's an "assumption", that's "why the ****" I assume that. If it's more likely that he speaks Spanish than Hebrew, then you're assuming he speaks Spanish are you not?

Only if he's in Israel.

 

[flamingdts]

Only if he's in Israel.

A mexican living in Israel most likely can't speak Spanish?

 

[Eejit]

Someone who looks Mexican or someone you've actually seen their Mexican passport?

 

[flamingdts]

Someone who looks Mexican or someone you've actually seen their Mexican passport?

Say what?

No seriously I don't get it. Are you asking me if I have seen a mexican passport?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

It only actually bothers me if it's majorly inconveniencing, and even then I can understand so I won't let it get me fired up. In reality they have every right to be just as irritated that I don't speak their language, especially if it's Spanish, which I really have no excuse for not knowing by now.

 

[Jintor]

Say what?

No seriously I don't get it. Are you asking me if I have seen a mexican passport?

How do you tell how someone is Mexican?

...appearance.

That's what he's saying.

 

[flamingdts]

How do you tell how someone is Mexican?

...appearance.

That's what he's saying.

Errrmm..... I don't see how that's relevant, but I guess you can try politely asking them? Get to know them, take them out to dinner and ask them where they're from.

Unless the "how" was not a typo then I guess you tell if someone is mexican by their parents.

Are we............. from the same planet?

 

[Jintor]

Errrmm..... I don't see how that's relevant, but I guess you can try politely asking them? Get to know them, take them out to dinner and ask them where they're from.

Unless the "how" was not a typo then I guess you tell if someone is mexican by their parents.

Are we............. from the same planet?

Oh for god's sakes it was him who was saying it, not me.

Interpretation much.

 

[flamingdts]

Oh for god's sakes it was him who was saying it, not me.

Interpretation much.

I know I know, I was addressing him mostly anyways, but since you recomprehended his post I might as well quote yours.

Calm down much? Oh wait I don't think that works.

 

[Jintor]

Calm now, calm now.

/EDIT I was thinking about something you said earlier and it occured to me that the only people who have ever assumed that I speak chinese by default were... other chinese people.

//EDIT Loving the passive-agressivism, it's so cute!

 

[Sheepo]

Of course you don't have enough evidence, that's why it's an "assumption", that's "why the ****" I assume that. If it's more likely that he speaks Spanish than Hebrew, then you're assuming he speaks Spanish are you not? Rephrase your last sentence, it should be "Mexican, he most likely speaks spanish, that's why I'm assuming he speaks spanish."

You do know you don't have to make an assumption, right? You do know what is an assumption is, right? This may seem insulting but I'm seriously asking, because your posts make it seem like you have this notion that an assumption must be made about what languages a person speaks, and that's my main problem with what you're saying. You can just, y'know, not assume.

 

[flamingdts]

Calm now, calm now.

/EDIT I was thinking about something you said earlier and it occured to me that the only people who have ever assumed that I speak chinese by default were... other chinese people.

//EDIT Loving the passive-agressivism, it's so cute!

Passive aggressivism? Are you going to talk about this topic or are you going to start insulting me because you disagree with me?

I don't want to start a pathetic internet arguement, I'm only interested in debating with the sub topics of this topic, so I'm going to apologize with my previous smartass-edness because I'm not interested in filling this thread with smartass responses which will end when a mod feels we went too far.

You do know you don't have to make an assumption, right? You do know what is an assumption is, right? This may seem insulting but I'm seriously asking, because your posts make it seem like you have this notion that an assumption must be made about what languages a person speaks, and that's my main problem with what you're saying. You can just, y'know, not assume.

Well it's human nature to assume things. I mean do you not assume your carpool to arrive on time? Do you not assume your computer to turn on when you press the switch? Do you not assume Half Life 2 to start up when you click on the short cut key? I simply assume that when I see a mexican guy across the street, he most likely knows Spanish. I don't expect him to know it, I assume he knows it. Hence if I'm going to communciate with another chinese person, I assume he knows how to speak chinese before speaking with him.

 

[MJ12]

I don't understand how this thread has reached 13 pages.

 

[Jintor]

It's because we're idiots.

 

[flamingdts]

It's because we're idiots.

Not at youtube level fortunately.

 

[The Monkey]

Are you serious Monkey? Your in Göteborg Right? No?

Right.

 

[Sheepo]

I don't expect him to know it, I assume he knows it.

Assuming he knows it is the same as expecting him to know it. I'm pretty sure you don't know what assume means.

 

[repiV]

What a pointless thread. Can I get a refund?

 

[Rico]

How do you know someone is Mexican by just looking at them? Do they have a "made in Mexico" stamp on the bottom of their feet or something?

That's the whole issue. If you see a "hispanic-looking guy" walking down the street, he doesn't have to be Mexican. You are ASSUMING he's Mexican, and therefore expect him to speak Spanish. However, he may very well be Brazilian, and speak portuguese instead.

And either way, they could both be born and raised Americans, and not speak any other language other than English. You don't know, unless you talk to them and ask, you should never assume anything about people. Not all tall people are good at basketball, not all Asian guys are good at math, etc.

 

[flamingdts]

Assuming he knows it is the same as expecting him to know it. I'm pretty sure you don't know what assume means.

I was waiting for someone to say expecting is the same as assuming. You need to understand how these two terms are used my friend.

Expect, my smart friend, is when you look forward to it, when you are most certain about it, when you demand it. "I expect 10 pushups from every soldier".

Assume, is when you have already taken something for granted, when you believe something to be true. "I assume you told the truth?"

Let me give you two examples:
"I expect you to go tomorrow"
"I assume you're going to tomorrow"

One demands it, looks forward to it being true. The other however, has taken it for granted, and believes it is already true.

When I assume a chinese guy knows chinese before speaking to him, I take it for granted that he has already learnt chinese.

When I expect a chinese guy to know chinese before speaking to him, I am demanding, I have an expectation for the man that he must meet. He "needs" to know chinese.

The reason I don't use "expect" is because I am in no authority to "expect" anyone to know a language before speaking to them. I can only "assume" they know it.

How do you know someone is Mexican by just looking at them? Do they have a "made in Mexico" stamp on the bottom of their feet or something?

That's the whole issue. If you see a "hispanic-looking guy" walking down the street, he doesn't have to be Mexican. You are ASSUMING he's Mexican, and therefore expect him to speak Spanish. However, he may very well be Brazilian, and speak portuguese instead.

And either way, they could both be born and raised Americans, and not speak any other language other than English. You don't know, unless you talk to them and ask, you should never assume anything about people. Not all tall people are good at basketball, not all Asian guys are good at math, etc.

Read my previous posts.

Don't take me for a fool, I'm not some idiot who judges by skin color. I have made it very clear in my earlier posts. I don't assume a mexican looking guy to be mexican.

 

[Maestro]

I do.

 

[Sheepo]

I was waiting for someone to say expecting is the same as assuming. You need to understand how these two terms are used my friend.

Expect, my smart friend, is when you look forward to it, when you are most certain about it, when you demand it. "I expect 10 pushups from every soldier".

Assume, is when you have already taken something for granted, when you believe something to be true. "I assume you told the truth?"

Let me give you two examples:
"I expect you to go tomorrow"
"I assume you're going to tomorrow"

One demands it, looks forward to it being true. The other however, has taken it for granted, and believes it is already true.

When I assume a chinese guy knows chinese before speaking to him, I take it for granted that he has already learnt chinese.

When I expect a chinese guy to know chinese before speaking to him, I am demanding, I have an expectation for the man that he must meet. He "needs" to know chinese.

The reason I don't use "expect" is because I am in no authority to "expect" anyone to know a language before speaking to them. I can only "assume" they know it.

The way it's phrased is different but the result is exactly the same.

 

[flamingdts]

The way it's phrased is different but the result is exactly the same.

So what if the results are similar or the same? It makes them the same words? I can ask you to jog to staples center or walk to staples center or sprint to staples center. The "result" is still the same because you eventually get to staples center, but the circumstances are completely different.

Same goes for when you "expect" a person to know chinese before you speak to them or when you "assume" a person to know chinese before you speak to them. The result is still similar in that you "think" the person knows chinese so you speak to them, but one word demands authoritatively whiles the other takes it for granted.

Are we done with these two words? Or are you still "pretty sure I don't know what assume means."

 

[nurizeko]

Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.[1] In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment, while reverse racism favours members of a historically disadvantaged group at the expense of those of a historically advantaged group. Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, even though anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.

Just dropping by.

Don't take me for a fool, I'm not some idiot who judges by skin color.

And yet.....you feel an Asian man not being able to speak an east Asian language is somehow....wrong?. Like you expect him/her to be able to converse in a language that is not their own. Because I'm pretty sure that's the opinion you conveyed. Were we wrong?.

I absolutely hate it when other Hong Kong-nese pretend they don't understand cantonese. They speak to store clerks in English, they pretend they don't understand cantonese when spoken to in cantonese, and the worse thing is they don't know how important it is to be more versatile in life.

If you grew up learning english more than your native language, it is vital that you communciate in your own native language amongst your friends so that you don't fall behind. In my opinion, it's embarassing if you can't speak your own language properly. Too bad there are still parents nowadays that raise their child up to speak a different language than their own native tongue.

Because that comes across as racism to me and I assume most folk. Your free to take it back if you want and stuff, but yeah, that attitude is generally the cause of the whole people-disagreeing-with-your-worldview thing.

 

[unozero]

only bothers me in a buisnnes setting like when I'm getting something to eat or GameStop or something.

 

[flamingdts]

Just dropping by.

And yet.....you feel an Asian man not being able to speak an east Asian language is somehow....wrong?. Like you expect him/her to be able to converse in a language that is not their own. Because I'm pretty sure that's the opinion you conveyed. Were we wrong?.

Because that comes across as racism to me and I assume most folk. Your free to take it back if you want and stuff, but yeah, that attitude is generally the cause of the whole people-disagreeing-with-your-worldview thing.

Did I say an Asian man needs to know east Asian language? You're putting words in my mouth. I have said it many times it is based on nationality, not skin color. Did you not read my post or understand what I'm saying? Or are you too hell-bent and convinced that I'm some racist idiot who thinks all Asian people are chinese? I said I believe a person of their own nationality should know their own language. Did I say indians need to speak east asian languages?

I feel a chinese man should know chinese. I feel a mexican man should know spanish. I think it is vital for a person to know their own native language. Did I say it was "wrong"? I feel it is embarassing if a person has absolutely no idea how to speak their own language. Embarassing and "wrong" are different words. Some may disagree, some may agree, and I absolutely understand that. It is however, by no means "racist" because I am neither "intolerant" nor am I "discriminating" them.

Yes, I absolutely hate it when my friends (chinese people) who can speak cantonese speaks to a cantonese store in English. The store clerk cannot speak English well and understand little to nothing, so why not just speak cantonese? I don't see that as racism if I hate it, I think it's just absolutely stupid.

Great, you used wikipedia to define racism.
Here are other definitions if you type "define:racism" on google.

Definitions of racism on the Web:
the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes; The belief that one race is superior to all others; Prejudice or discrimination based upon race
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/racism

racist - based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks"
racist - discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Here is another one from dictionary.com (even my home oxford dictionary does not have the definition wikipedia wrote)

–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Your definition is correct, but the word here is "discrimination".

I'm not going to take back what I said nor do I think you have proven a point. All you have done is define racism. Most people associate racism with discrimination, just like the word sexism, discrimination based on sex. Am I a sexist if I say a woman should have manners? Am I sexist if I say a woman should not sit with her legs wide open whiles wearing a skirt?

If you ask anyone on the street what the term racism or sexism means, the word "discrimination" usually pops up.

Finally, my favourite part. Assuming wikipedia's dictionary is 100% correct, it still doesn't make me a racist. You know why? "Race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities" means the ability to learn, eat, run, become smarter, to know a language etc. is based on the race.
For example: Only black people are natural runners. Only caucasians can speak good Engish.

In no way does that mean "believing a person should know their own native language" or "believing a person should be abashed if he has absolutely no idea how to speak their own language".

Are we clear on that or is every other person in this world a complete and utter racist?