Does it bother you when people speak their native language?

[nurizeko]

Did I say an Asian man needs to know east Asian language?

Hmm...

I feel a chinese man should know chinese. . .I think it is vital for a person to know their own native language. Did I say it was "wrong"? I feel it is embarassing if a person has absolutely no idea how to speak their own language. (note that in an English speaking country with a native born Asian person their native language is English and expecting them to speak an East Asian language is racism because you have no grounds to expect anything but English from them). . .I don't see that as racism if I hate it. . .I simply assume that when I see a mexican guy across the street, he most likely knows Spanish.. . .I'm assuming based on nationality.(despite the fact that in a non-Asian country any given Asian person's nationality is likely of that country, and you cant just attribute nationality to someone who has no link to it). . .I know you're chinese, so I assume you celebrate chinese new year. Is that racist? (yes because you cant assume someone who just so happened to have Chinese grandparents remotely considers themselves Chinese, again, attributing cultural traits to someone based on skin colour. Racism.). . .it doesn't make me a racist, it's stereotyping.( lol... stereotyping is one of the biggest hallmarks of racism, if I assume all blacks like to pick cotton, eat fried chicken and all that, that makes me racist. No ifs, no buts, its an unfair stereotype and sweeping generalization. Just like your attitude towards Asian people. Yeah it isn't as blatant as a white man calling an Asian man a racial slur but its the same animal at the end of the day). . .ect, ect.

it still doesn't make me a racist.

No, your racism makes you a racist.

In no way does that mean "believing a person should know their own native language" or "believing a person should be abashed if he has absolutely no idea how to speak their own language".

So your saying that expecting an Asian person to be able to speak an Asian language even though they are born and raised in a non-Asian country is not racism even though your attributing a quality idea or ability to someone based on the colour of their skin?.

How the **** are you just not getting this?, lol.

Look forward to your ban. :cheers:

 

[flamingdts]

Hmm...

No, your racism makes you a racist.

So your saying that expecting an Asian person to be able to speak an Asian language even though they are born and raised in a non-Asian country is not racism even though your attributing a quality idea or ability to someone based on the colour of their skin?.

How the **** are you just not getting this?, lol.

Look forward to your ban. :cheers:

I absolutely can't believe it. Really?

How many times must I repeat? "Look forward to your ban", is that how you debate with someone? You are quick to claim victory aren't you?

I said for the 100th time, I believe a person of their own nationality should know their own native language. I used Asians as an example, and since I was worried you won't know I am using an example I usually type "for example" or "if".

Racism, is against a specific race.
Sexism, is against a specific gender.

If I say all nationalities should know their own native language, It applies to everyone no matter the nationality or sex.

My racism makes me a racist? You don't get it do you? I don't hate mexicans, I don't hate blacks, I don't hate anybody. I have an opinion believing that people should know their own native language. That is basically saying "I believe people should wear underwear when they go out".

You can't even comprehend sentences properly. Let me help you out.

"Yes, I absolutely hate it when my friends (chinese people) who can speak cantonese speaks to a cantonese store clerk in English."

As you can see from this paragraph, I hate it when people who can speak cantonese chooses to speak to a non-english speaking cantonese store clerk in english, making life difficult for everyone else.

The store clerk cannot speak English well and understand little to nothing, so why not just speak cantonese? I don't see that as racism if I hate it, I think it's just absolutely stupid.

As you can see from this paragraph, I don't see it as racism if I hate somebody who does the thing I described above. Get it?

I am not targetting any race, you're putting words in my mouth. I use examples for a reason. Examples need to be specific so it's easier to understand get it?

(despite the fact that in a non-Asian country any given Asian person's nationality is likely of that country, and you cant just attribute nationality to someone who has no link to it

Really come on..... Really? If a chinese man (an example. An example. An example. Ok?) lived and was born in America, it means he is not chinese? It means he has no link to chinese nationality?

I thought the dictionary definition would make things easier for you, but you ignore things and only pick out bits and pieces that you can build an arguement out of.

Racism is when you discriminate a particular race for the last time......... For example, if I say I hate curry pizzas. Does that make me a racist? I'm only racist if I say "I hate curry pizzas made by chinese people."

I use examples, and I call them examples for a reason. I say "if" for a reason. All you do is pick out bits and pieces, take them out of context, and then call me a racist because I used an example.

Lastly, this I can absolutely not believe.

I know you're chinese, so I assume you celebrate chinese new year. Is that racist?

(yes because you cant assume someone who just so happened to have Chinese grandparents remotely considers themselves Chinese, again, attributing cultural traits to someone based on skin colour. Racism.)

Are you serious? Can we stop this stupidity? Who isn't a racist in your life nurizeko? There is no racism because I am not discriminating anyone. Chinese people celebrate chinese new year, so I'm racist because I assume a chinese person celebrates chinese new year?

Nurizeko, I want you to use your own words to define racism. Once you have done that, tell me why you are confident I will be banned.

Talk about injustice, you can't go around calling people a racist Nurizeko. The word was made to define a group of ignorant individuals in the first place you know. Your arrogance and ignorance does not amuse me, not anymore at least. I want you to read this post properly, the whole thing. I'm tired of repeating.

 

[Remus]

Really come on..... Really? If a chinese man (an example. An example. An example. Ok?) lived and was born in America, it means he is not Chinese? It means he has no link to Chinese nationality?

If a Chinese family moves to the US and has kids there, then the kids are NOT Chinese, they are American citizens and whether they want to learn about their parent's culture is completely up to them.

Chinese people celebrate Chinese new year, so I'm racist because I assume a Chinese person celebrates Chinese new year?

You are racist if you assume a person that is born and raised in the US (using the previous example) who so happened to have Chinese parents also celebrates Chinese new year.

 

[flamingdts]

If a Chinese family moves to the US and has kids there, then the kids are NOT Chinese, they are American citizens and whether they want to learn about their parent's culture is completely up to them.



You are racist if you assume a person that is born and raised in the US (using the previous example) who so happened to have Chinese parents also celebrates Chinese new year.

Hence a reason why I say "an opinion".

Hence also a reason why I say "assume".

I assume a chinese person celebrates chinese new year because he is afterall chinese. No, it doesn't matter if he was born in America, he still has chinese blood in him. You can call him half american, but he is not fully american. He might not celebrate chinese new year, he might now speak chinese, but he is still chinese. If a human lived with monkeys all his life, is he a monkey?

Tell me why I'm racist if I assume a chinese person who grew up in america celebrates chinese new year. Define racist, tell me where the discrimination occured and tell me where the offensive bit is. This is the same as people who celebrate christmas etc. Do you not assume your friends celebrate christmas and other holidays similar?

 

[Remus]

No, it doesn't matter if he was born in America, he still has chinese blood in him. You can call him half american, but he is not fully american. He might not celebrate chinese new year, he might now speak chinese, but he is still chinese.

That's where we and you disagree.
The US constitution also doesn't give a shit about this sort of mentality. If you are born there you can become president no matter what nationality your parents were.

If a human lived with monkeys all his life, is he a monkey?

He is not a monkey but he will behave like one, proving my point that you are molded by the environment and culture you grew up in.

 

[flamingdts]

That's where we and you disagree.
The US constitution also doesn't give a shit about this sort of mentality. If you are born there you can become president no matter what nationality your parents were.




He is not a monkey but he will behave like one, proving my point that you are molded by the environment and culture you grew up in.

You did not define racist. You did not tell me why I'm a racist.

I never disagreed with the fact that a person grows up and shapes according to the culture, never did I once disagree with that.

I do disagree if you say a person's nationality is based soley on culture. Biologically, the person is what he is. Culturally, it may be different. A person can move to another country and change to adapt to a different culture. Does that mean that person changed his nationality as well?

By the way, like you said the "US" constitution. US is but one country, you think that applies to everyone else? Answer my questions, don't just pick them out.

 

[PvtRyan]

Define: 'American'.

 

[flamingdts]

Define: 'American'.

Americans are also known as Amerindians. They are a race of people consisting of their own culture and traditions.

 

[<RJMC>]

one thing that I wonder if this same kind of stuff happened when the inmigrants of the usa where irish and italians and russians and those european countryes?

 

[nurizeko]

Flamingdts, by your incredibly flawed logic we are all a Africans, should speak one of the first languages or proto-languages, and use flint tools and make and do whatever to appease whatever nature spirits our first ancestors begged for mercy from.

Though knowing you, you probably buy into that crock of shit hypothesis that Asian/Chinese people magically appeared out of nowhere as an entirely distinct species despite the fact, again:

Human to human total genetic variation is approximately 0.5%.

Anyway, lets continue...

No, it doesn't matter if he was born in America, he still has chinese blood in him. You can call him half american, but he is not fully american. He might not celebrate chinese new year, he might now speak chinese, but he is still chinese.

Human to human total genetic variation is approximately 0.5%.

Hmm?

Biologically, the person is what he is.

Human to human total genetic variation is approximately 0.5%.

Interesting.

Does that mean that person changed his nationality as well?

Quote: Fact:

(FYI that's a US passport, also Vegeta, stop staring)

Hmmm!

By the way, like you said the "US" constitution. US is but one country, you think that applies to everyone else?

Quote: The international bit of paper China was a signatory to:

The following countries voted in favor of the Declaration: Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Burma, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Denmark, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Ethiopia, France, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Liberia, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Thailand, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay and Venezuela.

You claim by virtue of being Asian with Chinese ancestors that his nationality is Chinese but nationality is not linked to race. It just isn't. Its linked to:

A) Your nationality as defined by birth.

B) where you have lived most of your life.

C) Your passport and documents.

D) Your own personal opinion.

Racial differences are so minute, so insignificant as to be completely and utterly irrelevant to the concept of nationality, and since Chinese people share their features with half of Asia, it just makes no sense.

As a last example:

What my grandfathers passport looked like

What mine looks like

Your position is flawed. Please use the gift of logic our shared common ancestors gave us or if not, remove yourself from the forums, thanks.

 

[The Monkey]

You seem to be confusing nationality with ethnicity, flamingdts.

In any case, it's impossible to speak of a chinese ethnicity, as the country encompasses many different ethnicities.

 

[Maestro]

This thread blows.

 

[flamingdts]

Flamingdts, by your incredibly flawed logic we are all a Africans, should speak one of the first languages or proto-languages, and use flint tools and make and do whatever to appease whatever nature spirits our first ancestors begged for mercy from.

Though knowing you, you probably buy into that crock of shit hypothesis that Asian/Chinese people magically appeared out of nowhere as an entirely distinct species despite the fact, again:


Anyway, lets continue...

Hmm?

Interesting.

Hmmm!

You claim by virtue of being Asian with Chinese ancestors that his nationality is Chinese but nationality is not linked to race. It just isn't. Its linked to:

A) Your nationality as defined by birth.

B) where you have lived most of your life.

C) Your passport and documents.

D) Your own personal opinion.

Racial differences are so minute, so insignificant as to be completely and utterly irrelevant to the concept of nationality, and since Chinese people share their features with half of Asia, it just makes no sense.

Your position is flawed. Please use the gift of logic our shared common ancestors gave us or if not, remove yourself from the forums, thanks.

Funny. Really it's funny. You change your arguements so quickly. Not long ago it was all about me being racist, and now the whole arguement shifts.

I'll play with you on this a bit. You're basically saying every person of different ethnicity is pretty much almost the same right? Tell me then, why do you use the word racist? If we're all the same, why do you all of a sudden call me a racist because I believe a person of their own nationality should know their own language? If we're all basically about the same, there is no such thing as racist is there?

You seem to be confusing nationality with ethnicity, flamingdts.

In any case, it's impossible to speak of a chinese ethnicity, as the country encompasses many different ethnicities.

You're right, I have been confusing at times, my bad. I am mainly focusing on cantonese, but I tend to use it along with chinese (the rest of china that is), and I tend to mix ethnic and nationality together.

nurizeko, how does me thinking chinese people coming out from nowhere have to do with this? First of all, that isn't true, second of all, it's a cheap-shot. However, I'll kindly forgive you for that, internet insults are not my thing.

Technically yes, we are all basically the same "race". Biologically, yes we are all pretty much very similar. Though that doesn't mean we're all the same, we are still different because we have split up into different areas and cultural surroundings. Hence why some people have more arm hair or chest hair whiles others don't (there's a difference right there). Otherwise, why do we have the terms like "chinese" or "japanese"? If you are born in England, but both your parents are Japanese. It makes you an English citizen, but it doesn't make you fully English. You are still Japanese, and yes biologically. Yes, 0.5% is a lot. It is still a difference. Do you know how many genes we have? Do you know how many possible genetic combinations there can be?

Ahh finally you brought up the human rights. I'm pretty sure that it states every body has rights to change nationalities am I right? Well seems like we need to be more specific with the terms now don't we? I'm focusing on the biological perspective, not the cultural perspective. I 100% agree that culture shapes a person, but that person is still "racially" whoever he/she was an offspring to. You can't turn an african into a chinese person. You can make him a citizen of China, you can call him a chinese african, but his biology will not change. His physical traits will not change. No I'm not being racist, I'm pointing out facts. Some biological traits are present amongst different people of different country.

What's funnier is you did exactly what I said you would do. You pick out bits and pieces that you can build an arguement on, and you ignore all else. You even contradicted yourself by doing it. Tell me, why am I a racist? You still haven't answered that question, and I hope you realize you basically nullified the term racist with your arguement. Since according to you, biologically speaking we're all very similar (which I agree), which means there is no such thing as racist unless we're up against aliens.

Now answer my question for the third time, what makes me a racist? I'm tired of you dodging my questions.

 

[Maestro]

Why are we still beating this dead horse?

Let it die, this topic should never have made it to 15 pages.

 

[Murray]

15 pages? Really? I haven't read anything in this thread but I've been hanging around on the forums ever since it was created.

Spoiler

I had a break

 

[unozero]

wow nuri went all out.

 

[Eejit]

lol nuri arguing over the internet. you need to get laid man rofl

 

[Sheepo]

Funny. Really it's funny. You change your arguements so quickly. Not long ago it was all about me being racist, and now the whole arguement shifts.

I'll play with you on this a bit. You're basically saying every person of different ethnicity is pretty much almost the same right? Tell me then, why do you use the word racist? If we're all the same, why do you all of a sudden call me a racist because I believe a person of their own nationality should know their own language? If we're all basically about the same, there is no such thing as racist is there?

Wow, that is the most thin, pathetic, and desperate attempt at an argument I've ever seen. It doesn't even really make sense.

 

[Vegeta897]

also Vegeta, stop staring)

I don't do noooothing!!

 

[flamingdts]

Wow, that is the most thin, pathetic, and desperate attempt at an argument I've ever seen. It doesn't even really make sense.

Right and you're the one to talk. Corp Correcto. :angel:

Assuming he knows it is the same as expecting him to know it. I'm pretty sure you don't know what assume means.

The way it's phrased is different but the result is exactly the same.

Are you getting back at me?

First step to correcting someone is to be correct yourself. There is nothing wrong with my arguement (did you read the first two paragraphs only?), but his however contradicts his own.

I can bet if I asked you why it's pathetic you will either dodge the question or disappear. In fact, tell me which part you don't understand, I'll elabourate for you. According to him, he is trying to say we're all so biologically similar that we should ignore skin color and everything, which means there is no such thing as racism is there? Racism the word he used earlier? Though you'll probably disappear again. You have yet to reply to my assume and expect arguement after I corrected you. Dodging questions and pretending an arguement never existed really works well doesn't it?

 

[Sheepo]

I did not factor nuri's post into what I said at all, I haven't read a single one of his posts in this thread. It's thin and pathetic because you're basically saying it's impossible for him to call you racist because his idea of humanity doesn't allow for the idea of race. That doesn't negate the idea of discrimination towards a race, it only increases the absurdity of it.

I stand by what I said. Expecting a person to do something is exactly the same as assuming a person will do something. I don't know how that can be argued.

 

[Kamikazie]

Today, I thought of this thread. Why, you ask? I'll tell you why. At work this afternoon I had a Vietnamese lady and her man friend come in from the nail salon in my plaza. I've seen them once or twice before, but never taken their order. She's standing in front of the bakery case (which is adjacent to where I'm standing) and gives me the "I'm ready to order something" look. I walk over and ask her what she wants, to which she gives me a blank stare. I ask again, this time pointing to some of the pastries. Again, nothing. I stand there while she still has the blank stare and then I start to walk away. Her man dude *grunts* (That's right, like what a savage animal would do to an enemy) at me and I return only to have them with angry faces on this time. So I start grabbing random shit until they give me their satisfactory grunts.

:hmph:

 

[flamingdts]

I did not factor nuri's post into what I said at all, I haven't read a single one of his posts in this thread. It's thin and pathetic because you're basically saying it's impossible for him to call you racist because his idea of humanity doesn't allow for the idea of race. That doesn't negate the idea of discrimination towards a race, it only increases the absurdity of it.

I stand by what I said. Expecting a person to do something is exactly the same as assuming a person will do something. I don't know how that can be argued.

That shows...... what?

Of course racism is discrimination, I made that very clear. His idea of arguement earlier is proving me a racist (though he still hasn't told me why I'm a racist). Then all of a sudden his idea becomes we're all biologically the same. If he says these two things, it contradicts each other doesn't it? Racism is when we segregate the different races and nationalities and target a specific one right? However, his earlier arguement stated we can be of any nationality because our biology is the same. Since racism is targeted towards a race, he just nullified his own arguement because we're all "the same".

His own wiki definition nullifies his own arguement.

So what if the results are similar or the same? It makes them the same words? I can ask you to jog to staples center or walk to staples center or sprint to staples center. The "result" is still the same because you eventually get to staples center, but the circumstances are completely different.

Same goes for when you "expect" a person to know chinese before you speak to them or when you "assume" a person to know chinese before you speak to them. The result is still similar in that you "think" the person knows chinese so you speak to them, but one word demands authoritatively whiles the other takes it for granted.

Are we done with these two words? Or are you still "pretty sure I don't know what assume means."

By the way

I stand by what I said. Expecting a person to do something is exactly the same as assuming a person will do something. I don't know how that can be argued.

Connections? Hypocrite?

Wow, that is the most thin, pathetic, and desperate attempt at an argument I've ever seen. It doesn't even really make sense.

Edit: And please don't disappear again.

 

[15357]

I'm not sure what flamingdts said wrong earlier in the thread.


Would somebody point that out?




Also, whats with all the hate here?

 

[Eejit]

Of course racism is discrimination, I made that very clear. His idea of arguement earlier is proving me a racist (though he still hasn't told me why I'm a racist). Then all of a sudden his idea becomes we're all biologically the same. If he says these two things, it contradicts each other doesn't it? Racism is when we segregate the different races and nationalities and target a specific one right? However, his earlier arguement stated we can be of any nationality because our biology is the same. Since racism is targeted towards a race, he just nullified his own arguement because we're all "the same".

Get your brain checked.

HE may not believe in different 'races', that wouldn't stop him from understanding that other people do.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Well, right now he seems to believe just because a person doesn't believe that ethnicities are all that different, he's also not allowed to accept the existence of racism. Kinda like, if a feminist didn't believe there was any difference beyond the biological between women and men and therefore was not allowed to accept the existence of sexism. Before that I have no idea, I think something about how if you're born in America and you feel American, and you celebrate the American way of life, you might be Chinese, I dunno...

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Also, whats with all the hate here?

 

[nurizeko]

lol nuri arguing over the internet. you need to get laid man rofl

I'm working on it, thanks for being interested!. :cheers:

I did not factor nuri's post into what I said at all, I haven't read a single one of his posts in this thread.

Cheeky sod, I went to the effort of reading your brain vomit. :hmph:

Lol.

You seem to be confusing nationality with ethnicity, flamingdts.

In any case, it's impossible to speak of a Chinese ethnicity, as the country encompasses many different ethnicities.

Simple yet effective. I approve of this message.^

Even the Han ethnic group (arguably the largest ethnic group on Earth) is divided into sub-groups/ethnicities.

Spoiler

Funny. Really it's funny. You change your arguements so quickly. Not long ago it was all about me being racist, and now the whole arguement shifts.

I'm pretty sure my argument still quite effectively points out your position can be construed as racist.

we are still different because we have split up into different areas and cultural surroundings.

So why pray tell can you not fathom that someone born in a foreign country regardless of their skin colour is not Chinese just because you say they are?. Someone brought up in a western country with western culture speaking the local language as their native language is just not Chinese, simple as. They are Asian, yes, but they are not Chinese. And we yet again return to the point that your attitude that a Asian national of a western country should be able to speak a Chinese language because they look Chinese is inherently flawed and wrong.

I'm focusing on the biological perspective, not the cultural perspective.

Human to human total genetic variation is 0.5%.

You can't turn an african into a chinese person.

If they are born and raised in China, speak a Chinese language as their first language, have a Chinese passport and consider themselves Chinese then they are Chinese. Period.

you can call him a chinese african, but his biology will not change.

Human to human total genetic variation is 0.5%.

Naomi Campbell, a famous model. She is half Black half Asian. So much for that massive biological difference hindering her parents ability to procreate. Again, biology has absolutely no bearing on nationality. Race does not act as some magical force shield protecting the Han ethnicity being "polluted" by other people's genes so if biology is no defence for the concept of race then how can you claim it as a defence for nationality?. It just doesn't make sense, and I wish, neigh, YEARN for you to somehow spark and ignite the fire of logic and reason in your head and realize how pointless and indefensible your position is, but I don't hold much hope.

Some biological traits are present amongst different people of different country.

Human to human total genetic variation is 0.5%, our biological traits are identical, the differences are statistically insignificant.

What's funnier is you did exactly what I said you would do. You pick out bits and pieces that you can build an arguement on, and you ignore all else. You even contradicted yourself by doing it. Tell me, why am I a racist? You still haven't answered that question, and I hope you realize you basically nullified the term racist with your arguement. Since according to you, biologically speaking we're all very similar (which I agree), which means there is no such thing as racist unless we're up against aliens.

Now answer my question for the third time, what makes me a racist? I'm tired of you dodging my questions.

So basically because you cant defend your position you've decided to commit argument suicide and lash out in a pathetic attempt to discredit a threads worth of replies from me and others.

You want an answer?, read my replies. I've dodged no questions, you want to know why you come across as racist?, read your own replies and then read mine pointing out quite clearly why.

Of course I pick out bits and pieces to build an argument on, that's called backing up my premises with evidence, and if I didn't then I would be as bad at arguing a point as you.

I'm not arguing with you for the fun of it, the forum regulars can attest that I prefer to spam, what I am trying to do here is make you realize the blatantly obvious in front of your face.

But your obviously trapped in your little comfort zone where your beliefs make sense and evidence to the contrary is just wrong. Feel free to think what you want, since you seem to be reading me saying one thing and then inventing your own little world where I've said something else. I'm done with you.

 

[flamingdts]

Get your brain checked.

HE may not believe in different 'races', that wouldn't stop him from understanding that other people do.

You didn't comprehend properly, so no don't tell me to get my brain check.

The point of an arguement is to stick with it no? If he understands that other people believe in "race", then why does he bring up the whole biological arguement? If he understands other people believe in "race" then he should know by now what my point is. "I believe people of their own nationality should know their own native language". Which I have restated many times, and which nurizeko began calling me a racist for (and he still can't say why).

Do you see racism in that statement? Do you see me discriminating races? Why do you think he switched to the whole biological arguement?

Don't support him for the sake of supporting him. Yes, I may be a relatively new member of this board and the rest of you may be familar with each other, but don't expect me to blindly listen to stupidity like what Corp. Correcto is exhibiting. Expect the exact same word as assume? Are you willing to push it this far to support such a subjective topic? If so, then I will continue arguing on.

Edit:

Well, right now he seems to believe just because a person doesn't believe that ethnicities are all that different, he's also not allowed to accept the existence of racism. Kinda like, if a feminist didn't believe there was any difference beyond the biological between women and men and therefore was not allowed to accept the existence of sexism. Before that I have no idea, I think something about how if you're born in America and you feel American, and you celebrate the American way of life, you might be Chinese, I dunno...

Yes precisely. It contradicts each other.

To elabourate further.
He believes I'm a racist because I assume a chinese person celebrates chinese new year. Now if we're all basically the same and we're only determined by our culture, then according to him, when I assume a chinese person celebrates chinese new year, it means I assume a person of a chinese culture celebrates chinese new year. Which means I'm not racist, I'm just assuming a person of their culture to be celebrating their holiday. This is not exactly my arguement, but this is where the contradiction occurs.

And still waiting for your answer nurizeko, why am I a racist?....

 

[15357]

Well, right now he seems to believe just because a person doesn't believe that ethnicities are all that different, he's also not allowed to accept the existence of racism. Kinda like, if a feminist didn't believe there was any difference beyond the biological between women and men and therefore was not allowed to accept the existence of sexism. Before that I have no idea, I think something about how if you're born in America and you feel American, and you celebrate the American way of life, you might be Chinese, I dunno...

So that's why he's being called a racist.. I geuss?

You didn't comprehend properly, so no don't tell me to get my brain check.

The point of an arguement is to stick with it no? If he understands that other people believe in "race", then why does he bring up the whole biological arguement? If he understands other people believe in "race" then he should know by now what my point is. "I believe people of their own nationality should know their own native language". Which I have restated many times, and which nurizeko began calling me a racist for (and he still can't say why).

Well, I do too.


:

Yes precisely. It contradicts each other.

To elabourate further.
He believes I'm a racist because I assume a chinese person celebrates chinese new year. Now if we're all basically the same and we're only determined by our culture, then according to him, when I assume a chinese person celebrates chinese new year, it means I assume a person of a chinese culture celebrates chinese new year. Which means I'm not racist, I'm just assuming a person of their culture to be celebrating their holiday. This is not exactly my arguement, but this is where the contradiction occurs.

That's pretty much what I've been able to gather.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Yes precisely. It contradicts each other.

It does not. I was sarcastic.

 

[flamingdts]

It does not. I was sarcastic.

You're right, maybe not entirely, which was why I added more to elabourate at the end.

Think of it this way.

I assume lemons are sour, but I'm called a lemon hater because I am assuming all lemons are sour.

However, this same person believes all fruits are the same, and that oranges and other fruits can also be called lemons if they are sour.

This means according to him, any fruit that is sour can be called a lemon.

So when I assume lemons are sour, I'm assuming all fruits that are just as sour as lemons, not just the yellow colored "lemon".

Which also means I'm not a lemon hater afterall, because I'm just saying lemons are sour, or in the person's point of view, I'm saying "All fruits that are as sour as lemon a.k.a lemon" is sour. Hence the reason the term "lemon hater" is nullified because according to the person I'm only saying "all fruits that are sour" are sour, which is a fact.

Obviously, I still don't see why I'm a racist or "a lemon hater" if I assume lemons are sour (if I assume chinese people celebrates chinese new year) , but there is still a contradiction nonetheless.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

That is... the dumbest analogy for the dumbest argument I have ever heard in my life. Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

nurizeko believes that apart from physical attributes, IE facial shapes, skin colour, etc, there is little to no difference between the different ethnicities of the world, at least that's what I've come to understand, I don't want to put words in his mouth. Whatever different mindsets other people have around the world are simply that: Cultural differences, we're all the sum of our experience etc. We are all one species, simple. That does not, in any possible, conceivable way mean nurizeko is not allowed to use the word racism, or accuse someone else of being a racist, for example, if someone completely disagrees with his viewpoint and believe there are fundamental differences to people of other nationalities or ethnic minorities. How you arrived at that conclusion is beyond me.

 

[flamingdts]

That is... the dumbest analogy for the dumbest argument I have ever heard in my life. Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

nurizeko believes that apart from physical attributes, IE facial shapes, skin colour, etc, there is little to no difference between the different ethnicities of the world, at least that's what I've come to understand, I don't want to put words in his mouth. Whatever different mindsets other people have around the world are simply that: Cultural differences, we're all the sum of our experience etc. We are all one species, simple. That does not, in any possible, conceivable way mean nurizeko is not allowed to use the word racism, or accuse someone else of being a racist, for example, if someone completely disagrees with his viewpoint and believe there are fundamental differences to people of other nationalities or ethnic minorities. How you arrived at that conclusion is beyond me.

Dumb analogy? Maybe, but it makes it easier to understand, and it points out the contradiction. My point wasn't to argue on the contradiction anyway, I'm simply pointing it out.

You're right nurizeko does believe that, and I'm not 100% against that either. He can use the word racist all he likes, I'm not saying he cannot use it.

The reason I said he cannot use the word racist on me is because I did not exhibit anything racism. The term racist is to segregate, to pick out races am I right? However, if I say something that applies to everyone, not targetting towards anyone, then it is simply an opinion. If I say something that applies to only a race, depending on what it is then my opinion is probably racist right?

For example, if I say people should wear a tie to work, is that racist? It is only racist if I say only white people should wear ties to work.

I said I believe everyone should know their own native language, something which nurizeko disagrees, which he also called me a racist for. I'm not targetting anyone or any race, I'm saying anyone regardless of your nationality. I also don't believe knowing your own native language is a dumb arguement, whether you agree with it or not.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Dumb analogy? Maybe, but it makes it easier to understand, and it points out the contradiction. My point wasn't to argue on the contradiction anyway, I'm simply pointing it out.

No, it doesn't. That's what makes it a bad analogy.

 

[Eejit]

I said I believe everyone should know their own native language, something which nurizeko disagrees, which he also called me a racist for.

You're being called a racist because you believe one's native language is determined by "blood" and descent rather than where one grew up, lives or what culture one personally identifies with.

 

[flamingdts]

No, it doesn't. That's what makes it a bad analogy.

Basically, I say toys are childish and he disagrees, since he believes some toys are not childish.

At the same time, he also believes anything entertainment related can have interexchangable names, to group things together. So for example, he believes all childish things will be grouped in the catergory toy. Kids television shows can be called toys, kids video games can be called toys. On the other hand, anything that is not childish will be placed in the "not childish television" catergory, so non-childish toys will be called "not childish television", non-childish video games will be called not childish television".

Now going back when he disagrees with me calling toys childish. He believes anything childish will be called toys right? So that means according to him, when I say toys are childish, I am saying "anything childish" is childish.

If you still don't understand, fine. It's not my point anyways, and my analogy skills are not exactly top notch.

You're being called a racist because you believe one's native language is determined by "blood" and descent rather than where one grew up, lives or what culture one personally identifies with.

Yes I do believe that, but why is that racist? If your parents are japanese, but you're born in china, your "blood" is japanese right? You can call yourself half chinese, but you are still biologically a japanese. Which means your ancestors were japanese. I say this because culture can be changed and adapted, which means nobody is anybody, since you can always adapt to a different culture.

Edit: If you think about it, I can also call you a racist because you believe a person is identified by culture. This is subjective don't you see? It's like the pronunciation of tomato, if one person pronounces it differently, is he wrong?

 

[The Monkey]

Yes I do believe that, but why is that racist? If your parents are japanese, but you're born in china, your "blood" is japanese right? You can call yourself half chinese, but you are still biologically a japanese. Which means your ancestors were japanese. I say this because culture can be changed and adapted, which means nobody is anybody, since you can always adapt to a different culture.

You can't be "biologically" japanese or any other nationality. The only thing in your blood is plasma blood cells, it doesn't say shit about nationality. I'll give an example. About 400 years ago there was a substantiation Dutch immigration to Sweden, especially to the city I'm currently in. Imagine if by chance a person today whose ancestors all originated from that Dutch population. He and his relatives have been living in Sweden for 400 years and isn't even aware that his "blood" (as you put it) is Dutch. Is that person Dutch rather than Swedish? If not, how many generations do you think it takes in the new land before one suddenly switches nationality?

 

[flamingdts]

You can't be "biologically" japanese or any other nationality. The only thing in your blood is plasma blood cells, it doesn't say shit about nationality. I'll give an example. About 400 years ago there was a substantiation Dutch immigration to Sweden, especially to the city I'm currently in. Imagine if by chance a person today whose ancestors all originated from that Dutch population. He and his relatives have been living in Sweden for 400 years and isn't even aware that his "blood" (as you put it) is Dutch. Is that person Dutch rather than Swedish? If not, how many generations do you think it takes in the new land before one suddenly switches nationality?

Which is why in one of my very early posts, I said it mainly depends on your parents. If your parents are japanese, and they following a japanese tradition, I believe you should at least know it, and know some japanese language as well. If your parents are of different nationalities, and they follow both, then you should learn a bit of both. Know it, not master it.

Still, you can be biologically "something". I wasn't specific with "blood", it's one of those corny movie terms which I used. Your genes determine your color pigment and traits. You have alleles for that and they determine it. You carry these genes and you pass them on, so in your genes you may have an allele that codes for blond hair or one that determines your pigment color. You cannot "create" a new gene, you cannot magically be born blond hair unless your parents have that allele. If two caucasian parents have an offspring, the offspring won't magically have darkskin.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Basically, I say toys are childish and he disagrees, since he believes some toys are not childish.

Jesus Christ you're making it worse!