Doom 3 shadows questionable...

Lets be honest, does anyone really give a ____ if the FLASHLIGHT casts dynamic shadows or not. The thread title is pretty misleading as if you're saying EVERY light doesn't cast shadows properly.

I'm sure it's a simple'ish mod to make the flashlight act as if it were a proper dynamic light.
 
If it saves performance, I'm all for it. If I'm not shooting something, I have my damn flashlight out, and if that caused noticable lag, that'd suck. :(
 
I'm not seeing the non-dynamicness of the flashlight. All the vids posted look fine to me.

Are you positive that the shadows from the flashlight aren't being cast fully?

The only way to really tell is to cheat and leave your character ala max payne 2 dev mode. If that's even possible in doom3.

From what I can see the flashlight shadow seems to be deforming over polys perfectly. I see none of these 'shadows in the air.'
 
I never noticed any shadows suspended in mid-air in multiplayer... and there's a lot of flashlighting...
 
It is very hard to tell if it is working correctly by using a flashlight that is held so close to your head, like FictiousWill said. It is probably working correctly and people just don't understand how it should act.
 
the only thing i really noticed while playing is that the shadows seem to be in the air, and not on the wall behind the object like it would in real life
 
FoB_Ed said:
the only thing i really noticed while playing is that the shadows seem to be in the air, and not on the wall behind the object like it would in real life
Click to expand...

AKA: the point of the thread
 
Sweet. Prolly gonna be a huge performance hit though.. ah well :)
 
That's self shadowing, not mid-air shadows. Personally I think you're mistaken about the mid-air shadows, for two reasons:

1. The shadows don't appear to distort over objects because the flashlight is so close to your eye. The same thing happened in Deus Ex 2. The flashlight looked like a yellow circle, not a projected stenciled light source unless you really tried to get it at an odd angle. In actuality, the shadows are distorting perfectly, it's just that because they are lined up just so, you interpret them as closer to you. I'll draw a picture and attach it in a sec.

2. The lighting engine in doom3 is universal. The lights on the doors to the flashlights carried by other marines to the flashlight you carry are all exactly the same. The player's light is simply another lightsource that stays on the player. If you don't see shadows in the air with other lights, then the supposed ones you see with your light are illusions.

Now, I'll do that drawing. Apologies if nobody posts until then and I double post.
 
Whatever the outcome of this, there ARE shortcuts being taken for performance reasons. Not ALL objects cast fully dynamic shadows.
 
Yeah I've noticed a lot of static (non-movable) crates that casts shadows that the flashlight can't do anything with except appear less dark so you can see the texture "under" the darkness (the shadows are usually on the floor).

I guess our next hope is the U3 engine now? ;)
 
PvtRyan said:
... there ARE shortcuts being taken for performance reasons. Not ALL objects cast fully dynamic shadows.
Click to expand...

That's not the point of the thread. The thread is about whether or not the shadows in doom3 hover in the air. Sure, some objects don't cast shadows or whatever. That's irrelevant. What we're talking about is are the shadows that are cast tricks and simply hovering in the air?

The answer is no, they shadows are not tricks that are hovering in the air. I've given two perfectly good reasons why above, but I'll add another reason for fun: How come you never see anything a foot or so away from the wall penetrated by one of these phantom floating shadows (which I still can't see in those videos, btw, they all look fine to me)? The reason is that the shadows aren't floating in the air, you're just interpreting them that way.

I've cooked up some paint doodles to show you. They're at the bottom of this post.

edit:
Alec_85 said:
Yeah I've noticed a lot of static (non-movable) crates that casts shadows that the flashlight can't do anything with except appear less dark so you can see the texture "under" the darkness (the shadows are usually on the floor).

I guess our next hope is the U3 engine now? ;)
Click to expand...

Tell me oh wise and wonderous Alec, was the static shadow that crate was casting from a light other than your flashlight? I would assume so, given that the doom3 lighting system uses no lightmaps. Amazingly enough, objects can have more than one shadow when shone on by multiple lights. Even more incredibly, shadows not cast by your flashlight are unaffected when you move said flashlight! Wow! Try this at home kids!
 
Yeah I noticed that too, I'm not that affected by it though.
 
I'm not either. I can do the same with the pics earlier in this thread. standby.
 
Note the distortion of the shadow around the pillar. Some may find it hard to notice because the flashlight source is so close to the virtual eye of the player.
 
FictiousWill said:
Tell me oh wise and wonderous Alec, was the static shadow that crate was casting from a light other than your flashlight? I would assume so, given that the doom3 lighting system uses no lightmaps. Amazingly enough, objects can have more than one shadow when shone on by multiple lights. Even more incredibly, shadows not cast by your flashlight are unaffected when you move said flashlight! Wow! Try this at home kids!
Click to expand...
Yup that's true. Can't say I remember another lightsource but there,as you said, must've been. I didn't see a new shadow from the flashlight on the other side though. Or maybe I did. Thing is, it was dark okay? ;) Also, I'm positive I said that the crate was static. Not the shadow. No need to go sarcastic on me ;( *weeps*
 
yeah, so if id had put the damn flashlight at an angle, it would make my experience with dynamic lighting so much cooler!
 
theotherguy said:
yeah, so if id had put the damn flashlight at an angle, it would make my experience with dynamic lighting so much cooler!
Click to expand...
It still gets the desired effect in some area's. Depends on where an object is and the background. I remember seeing a pretty cool shadow from a zombie with the flashlight on him. I think its subtle but well done.
 
hm, it is indeed strange, especially towards the end of the posters video, the shadow doesn't line up behind the object, which means it's probably isn't rendered against the walls.
 
I think the problem that people saw stems from the fact that the shadows are flat-black. Since the shadow won't get diffused by ambient light the further it is from you, it appears to be a solid bar, when it is really being broken up by the various surfaces.

The best way to find out for sure is to try the same tests, but while not pointing the light directly at the bar. Placing it at the periphery of the light cone should show the desired effect, if it's there, because the light will be at an angle. That way, it should look more like what FictiousWill posted in his second example.
 
Try going into 3rd person mode, if you move the light source away from your view, you'll see your mistakes.

And yeah, Mechagodzilla you have a point about the crispness of the shadows. It's too bad id didn't include an extra feature that performs a sortof gaussian blur of a separate backbuffer that stored the shadows. Would probably steal about 5 fps but would do ultra-basic penumbraic simulation.
 
FictiousWill said:
Try going into 3rd person mode, if you move the light source away from your view, you'll see your mistakes.

And yeah, Mechagodzilla you have a point about the crispness of the shadows. It's too bad id didn't include an extra feature that performs a sortof gaussian blur of a separate backbuffer that stored the shadows. Would probably steal about 5 fps but would do ultra-basic penumbraic simulation.
Click to expand...
The the player shadow trick they did in maxpayne 2 was cool

making it blur and fade the further you are from the ground
http://punto-informatico.it/punto/20031103/mp201.jpg
 
How do you go in to third person mode? What's the command? I'd like to try that out.
 
So if something is further away, or higher above the ground, it becomes transparent? :O
 
Letters said:
So if something is further away, or higher above the ground, it becomes transparent? :O
Click to expand...

The shadow does become increasingly transparent, yep. I assume that you're in front of a desk right now, so try this:

Hold your hand 1cm above the surface of the desk. Now, move it slowly upwards. Watch as the shadow goes from dark to light!

Science!
 
Mechagodzilla said:
The shadow does become increasingly transparent, yep. I assume that you're in front of a desk right now, so try this:

Hold your hand 1cm above the surface of the desk. Now, move it slowly upwards. Watch as the shadow goes from dark to light!

Science!
Click to expand...
WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY HAND?! SHEEZUS!
 
My room is too dark to try that right now.
:hmph:

But I couldn't care less about shadows or lighting.
In fact, when I get the game, I turn off everything in the advanced options menu.
That way, I can finally use 1600x1200 and high/ultra details.


:)
 
I hope you realize it will look like shit.


/me goes back to playing with shadowz

The things you just don't notice sometimes! :eek:
 
quote :How do you go in to third person mode? What's the command? I'd like to try that out.

while ur playing open console control+alt+~ then pm_thirdpersondeath (no u wont die :p ) i dont remember if u need to put a / b4 the command.

it works good u even get crosshair :)

i think im gonna finish the game my 3rd time in thirdperson (2nd time when i get my x800xt :bounce: )
 
Um, all I see is the flashlight shining on people, which projects a shadow on the wall. You can tell because of the angle of the flashlight and the shadow in relation to the player's view angle. How is this cheating exactly?
 
Play the level with the guy who holds a light thingie and you're supposed to guard him and you'll see the shadows aren't fake.
 
this topic should have been closed the second it was started... my god dont u guys have anything better to do than sit around and bitch at how the shadows in game are lacking!? WTF IS WITH U PEOPLE... lol anyways...

PEACE

MIKE :p
 
Max_Payne said:
my god dont u guys have anything better to do than sit around and bitch at how the shadows in game are lacking!? WTF IS WITH U PEOPLE... lol anyways...
PEACE
MIKE :p
Click to expand...

Wow. Fuçk you.
 
Max_Payne said:
this topic should have been closed the second it was started... my god dont u guys have anything better to do than sit around and bitch at how the shadows in game are lacking!? WTF IS WITH U PEOPLE... lol anyways...

PEACE

MIKE :p
Click to expand...

For your information, I wasn't bitching. I just wanted to see if this is really how the engine renders shadows for static objects. If so, it's a really neat trick.
 
Sedako said:
For your information, I wasn't bitching. I just wanted to see if this is really how the engine renders shadows for static objects. If so, it's a really neat trick.
Click to expand...

Was this solved in the thread? I don't really want to go read five pages right now.

But to me it just seems like an artifact from the flashlight. All other shadows from in game light sources cast correctly. It is only the shadows from the flashlight that are not quite right. Perhaps the flashlight isn't a real light source for some reason.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MFL
Fascinating look at the ongoing psychological evolution of flat hieirarchies.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
-smash-
Using Unity at Valve - Vision Summit 2016
Replies
5
Views
6K
Ennui
Ennui
Vincent Pride
  • Poll
Half-Life 3 - analysis and expectations
Replies
3
Views
2K
FoB_Ed
FoB_Ed
morgs
TTT Fanfic - The Island
Replies
8
Views
2K
Krynn72
Krynn72
Munro
Operation Everlasting Shadow
Replies
0
Views
1K
Munro
Munro
Back
Top