So?
Doom 3 thread.
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So?
Ravioli
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EXAKLY (sp?) so?? so what its repetetive???
CS is repetetive, BF series is repetetive, all games are repetetive at a point.
phantomdesign
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I'm not suggesting anyone should or shouldn't have enjoyed the game - I just thought i didn't live up to it's potentail & to me it was extremely boring. I thought halo levels were more varried and interesting (remeber this is a RELATIVE comment).
The initial environments are inteesting enough to draw you in & the human interaction in CS and BF series make those games not repetitive.
If you assume that, then they're obviously not that creative & didn't do a very good job.
The initial environments are inteesting enough to draw you in & the human interaction in CS and BF series make those games not repetitive.
impgrinder
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Well, no. 95% of Doom 3 was set entirely in one single location. And yet, they stretched it to a good number of levels ...The monorails, the Toxic disposal chambers, the offices, teleportation labs, biological research labs, archeological digs and many other places.
In the end it is all personal opinion.
Basically, the pipes and tunnels stuff were there everywhere...but thats how it is. Like in the movie Aliens.
:cheers:
AJ Rimmer
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Boring and repetative gameplay, pretty lousy character animations, story is kinda cool but badly presented. Cool graphics and absolutely awesome level design though. That's Doom 3 in a nutshell to me. Not a bad game, just not one I'd play more than once.
I loved it. Quite contrary to many HL2 people. HL2 is my favorite FPS, but Doom3 isn't far behind.
I guess I was never disappointed in the gameplay because it was what I had expected. Ever since Doom3 was announced, I was expecting a non-complicated FPS game with lots of action and gorgeous graphics. And that was what it came to be. It didn't have very interesting characters, sure. But I never expected that.
The story presentation I actually liked. There was, in fact, a lot more story in the game than many people give it credit for, if you looked for those bits. I think, in fact, this is quite similar to HL2 - if you rush through the game and don't pay attention, all you'll gather from the storyline is "these aliens took over Earth, the bolt-shooting aliens are our friends, and you blow the Citadel up". While there are other layers of the story to be uncovered in dialogue, misc. items, etc. Doom3 is similar - you can summarize it as "so experiments went wrong, the demons from hell invade, you find an alien artifact and stop the invasion", but if you pay attention to various other stuff, there's a lot more to be gathered.
And I love Doom3's sounds. Best ambience sound in any game, I think. And I mean the background sounds / hellish noises, not the sounds of any actual enemies or weapons. There is something in its ambient sounds that very consistently strikes a nerve with me.
I guess I was never disappointed in the gameplay because it was what I had expected. Ever since Doom3 was announced, I was expecting a non-complicated FPS game with lots of action and gorgeous graphics. And that was what it came to be. It didn't have very interesting characters, sure. But I never expected that.
The story presentation I actually liked. There was, in fact, a lot more story in the game than many people give it credit for, if you looked for those bits. I think, in fact, this is quite similar to HL2 - if you rush through the game and don't pay attention, all you'll gather from the storyline is "these aliens took over Earth, the bolt-shooting aliens are our friends, and you blow the Citadel up". While there are other layers of the story to be uncovered in dialogue, misc. items, etc. Doom3 is similar - you can summarize it as "so experiments went wrong, the demons from hell invade, you find an alien artifact and stop the invasion", but if you pay attention to various other stuff, there's a lot more to be gathered.
And I love Doom3's sounds. Best ambience sound in any game, I think. And I mean the background sounds / hellish noises, not the sounds of any actual enemies or weapons. There is something in its ambient sounds that very consistently strikes a nerve with me.
Tollbooth Willie
The Freeman
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Honestly, the only thing I enjoyed was the chainsaw.
*walking down dark hallway....where's some ****ing duct tape ffs?*
Imp: Blalalawl!
*revves chainsaw*
Imp: D:
*walking down dark hallway....where's some ****ing duct tape ffs?*
Imp: Blalalawl!
*revves chainsaw*
Imp: D:
Warbie
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I liked the chainsaw too - that was untill goW arrived. Chainsaw death has now taken on a whole new meaning.
*cuts a noob in half and watches the blood and guts drip off the screen*
impgrinder
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I agree with this guy.
One can choose to skip out details that are well present in the game and dismiss it as having a thin plot.
While the theme of the game remains "Get the evil demons before they get earth" there are other pieces in the puzzle.
Going through audio logs and emails, fills in a lot of gaps and offer valuable clues. The video disks, fill you in more on the stuff that was going down at the base....like the research that was going on in the base etc.
Just awesome.
There really isn't anything to the plot. Honest - there isn't. I've gone through every log and email, and all they talk about is things going wrong. There's absolutely nothing worth noting in the emails and logs, except for the bit about teleportation which again, isn't very interesting.
Come on Samon, there is. The details are blurry in my mind, but if you want, I can write up a post with the backstory ad various secondary plot points that can be found in the game.
Of course, it's not Morrowind as far as the amount and depth of the story goes, but it really is a lot more than you'd give it credit for.
Another reason why I liked it was that, to me, story consists the actual plot, and presentation. I found Doom3's presentation of the plot good. Not excellent (that would be HL or HL2), but good. I still can't get over this disappointment in FEAR, I was expecting a good story-driven FPS, and instead got some of the poorest story presentation I've ever seen.
Of course, it's not Morrowind as far as the amount and depth of the story goes, but it really is a lot more than you'd give it credit for.
Another reason why I liked it was that, to me, story consists the actual plot, and presentation. I found Doom3's presentation of the plot good. Not excellent (that would be HL or HL2), but good. I still can't get over this disappointment in FEAR, I was expecting a good story-driven FPS, and instead got some of the poorest story presentation I've ever seen.
Warbie
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I happen to agree with Samon here 
O )
While there were plenty of emails and videos to check out, to me they felt like an afterthought - there to flesh out a very thin plot. Take SS2 - every snippet of info you came by had some relevance and added to the story/atmosphere. This wasn't the case in Doom 3 - each tidbit told us very little and offered no real clues or insights (or anything other that what we already knew, for that matter)
Doom 3's problem was that id tried to complicate a very simple and winning formula and ended up creating something quite different. Out went the constant action and in went a more psychological, atmosphere driven experience - or at least that was the intention. What we got was Doom, without much fighting, in very samey/boring corridors, in the dark. Not clever or interesting enough to create the tension and atmosphere needed for a survival horror, and not enough action to satisfy the loonies who like their Doom with more Cyberdemons than you could wave a double barrelled shotgun at.
O )While there were plenty of emails and videos to check out, to me they felt like an afterthought - there to flesh out a very thin plot. Take SS2 - every snippet of info you came by had some relevance and added to the story/atmosphere. This wasn't the case in Doom 3 - each tidbit told us very little and offered no real clues or insights (or anything other that what we already knew, for that matter)
Doom 3's problem was that id tried to complicate a very simple and winning formula and ended up creating something quite different. Out went the constant action and in went a more psychological, atmosphere driven experience - or at least that was the intention. What we got was Doom, without much fighting, in very samey/boring corridors, in the dark. Not clever or interesting enough to create the tension and atmosphere needed for a survival horror, and not enough action to satisfy the loonies who like their Doom with more Cyberdemons than you could wave a double barrelled shotgun at.
The audio logs are an illusion of substance. In order to give backing to something extraordinarily simple and dull, they decided to implement audio logs and emails. It sounds like a good idea, and looking at System Shock 2 you might just think it is. But these logs didn't develop the story in the way SS2 used them, they didn't offer you tantalising clues or reveal anything of real interest, they simply detailed everyday life in the base.
"Today, I was unable to go down to the reactor chamber. I hear scary noises, and somebody has gone and stolen my bedcovers. I don't think I can last here another week."
Then I'd stumble upon another, and say, "Let me guess, your job sucks, Mars is a shithole and bad man with one eye has lost the plot?"
"I can't stand it here anymore! Garry shifted out last week and I've now got a huge workload on my hands! I'm tired of Mars, this isn't what I hoped for, and I work for a borderline psychotic!" Thought so.
id forgot to vary things, they forgot to add actual gameplay and they forgot mix things up a little. Perhaps if Romero had been there, it would have been a different story, but as far as I'm concerned the main thing id lacked with Doom 3 was an actual game designer. Nobodies faulting the plastic engine (oops), or the nifty effects or animations, but we are faulting the game at its core. Atmosphere is all about implementation. There are rare moments in Doom 3 where you can actually say, "Well, I suppose it is somewhat eerie." and then suddenly, a seemingly invisible locker opens, a body is thrown out and some generic villain issues a Palpatine cackle. Pop. It all goes out the window.
Quite frankly, I'm not sure what id tried to do. But whatever it was, they failed.
"Today, I was unable to go down to the reactor chamber. I hear scary noises, and somebody has gone and stolen my bedcovers. I don't think I can last here another week."
Then I'd stumble upon another, and say, "Let me guess, your job sucks, Mars is a shithole and bad man with one eye has lost the plot?"
"I can't stand it here anymore! Garry shifted out last week and I've now got a huge workload on my hands! I'm tired of Mars, this isn't what I hoped for, and I work for a borderline psychotic!" Thought so.
id forgot to vary things, they forgot to add actual gameplay and they forgot mix things up a little. Perhaps if Romero had been there, it would have been a different story, but as far as I'm concerned the main thing id lacked with Doom 3 was an actual game designer. Nobodies faulting the plastic engine (oops), or the nifty effects or animations, but we are faulting the game at its core. Atmosphere is all about implementation. There are rare moments in Doom 3 where you can actually say, "Well, I suppose it is somewhat eerie." and then suddenly, a seemingly invisible locker opens, a body is thrown out and some generic villain issues a Palpatine cackle. Pop. It all goes out the window.
Quite frankly, I'm not sure what id tried to do. But whatever it was, they failed.
id tried to provide a game with a lot of action and great graphics first and foremost. I don't see how they failed to do those by any definition.
Atmosphere and scariness is all in the eye of beholder. Different things scare different people, and atmosphere is even way more subjective. Take HL2's Ravenholm. Some people though it was very scary, some thought it was simply scary, some though it wasn't scary. Different experiences. I found Ravenholm very cool but not scary at all, though with a couple of good jump moments - different experiences.
Doom3 is the same way. That game scared me. And quite a bit, too. But most of it wasn't in the monster leaping / appearing from behind. Sure, that gave a few jump scares. But the real scares, for me, went from the atmosphere and the sound - I think Doom3 did the "this place is just wrong" atmosphere very precisely. Stories of certain people's insane actions, weird stuff going on in the base, demonic visions you get - that was what I found atmosphere-setting and scary. And, again, those ambient background noises. Some noises of thumping or strange humming/singing were what unsettled me quite a bit.
I really should write that story post up if I have another moment, and can remember a few things.
Atmosphere and scariness is all in the eye of beholder. Different things scare different people, and atmosphere is even way more subjective. Take HL2's Ravenholm. Some people though it was very scary, some thought it was simply scary, some though it wasn't scary. Different experiences. I found Ravenholm very cool but not scary at all, though with a couple of good jump moments - different experiences.
Doom3 is the same way. That game scared me. And quite a bit, too. But most of it wasn't in the monster leaping / appearing from behind. Sure, that gave a few jump scares. But the real scares, for me, went from the atmosphere and the sound - I think Doom3 did the "this place is just wrong" atmosphere very precisely. Stories of certain people's insane actions, weird stuff going on in the base, demonic visions you get - that was what I found atmosphere-setting and scary. And, again, those ambient background noises. Some noises of thumping or strange humming/singing were what unsettled me quite a bit.
I really should write that story post up if I have another moment, and can remember a few things.
Doom 3 is definately a good game, but not necessarily a scary one. I was in a few situations where I felt a sense of urgency as monsters rushed me, but that kind of thrill is in literally every single FPS ever made. Ultimately, Doom III is more like a Roller Coaster than a Haunted House. Okay, maybe a roller coaster in a haunted house.
Trully intense games that border on scary would include System Shock 2,and, perhaps, Half-life and Half-life 2. The creators of those games really understood that sometimes less is more. Ever notice how the scariest movies and books never give their protagonist a pistol right off the bat? I think that is something that few designers have ever really grasped, and none have yet executed well. Games like F.E.A.R and Doom 3 disappoint me as applicants of the "Horror" game sub-genre.
PS: Undying is another good shooter to check out if you like Doom 3. Don't worry about the graphics. Undying trumps Doom 3 in gameplay.
Trully intense games that border on scary would include System Shock 2,and, perhaps, Half-life and Half-life 2. The creators of those games really understood that sometimes less is more. Ever notice how the scariest movies and books never give their protagonist a pistol right off the bat? I think that is something that few designers have ever really grasped, and none have yet executed well. Games like F.E.A.R and Doom 3 disappoint me as applicants of the "Horror" game sub-genre.
PS: Undying is another good shooter to check out if you like Doom 3. Don't worry about the graphics. Undying trumps Doom 3 in gameplay.
Infoceptor
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One of my biggest disappointments in gaming; the game got so boring after a while i simply quit. Carmack + Romero need to team up again. You just got to have both to make a truly uber game. If one is missing, it just doesn't work, like ying and yang.
impgrinder
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Well, in D3 the entire base gets wrecked pretty early in the game and most of the people either die or are zombified... and your mission becomes only to gather weapons, fight the demons through the base, locate and use the artifact against hell. Simple, but effective.
Sure, there are other sci-fi games which have more complex story lines, because it merely fits the game... but its not necasary that every game is scripted like that. Doom 3 designers obviously wanted to lay more emphasis on how the game looks and create a gaming experience for the player that truly reflects the atmosphere in the game.
Dooms plot and story progression was, was presented very well through great cinematics. As seen in this video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfolzxFachY&mode=related&search=
Its not just about how the game is scripted, little things like switching to cut scenes to introduce a new demon or give the marine a hallucination or simply to scare the player all make a difference. If not plot, Doom is all about presentation. Funny how most people think otherwise, but Doom 3 had really brilliant presentation.
Sure, there are other sci-fi games which have more complex story lines, because it merely fits the game... but its not necasary that every game is scripted like that. Doom 3 designers obviously wanted to lay more emphasis on how the game looks and create a gaming experience for the player that truly reflects the atmosphere in the game.
Dooms plot and story progression was, was presented very well through great cinematics. As seen in this video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfolzxFachY&mode=related&search=
Its not just about how the game is scripted, little things like switching to cut scenes to introduce a new demon or give the marine a hallucination or simply to scare the player all make a difference. If not plot, Doom is all about presentation. Funny how most people think otherwise, but Doom 3 had really brilliant presentation.
Well, expecting a Deus Ex-like plot from an id game would indeed be unreasonable . id has always provided intense action and great graphics, but never too much plot.
There's another part of Doom3 which I really liked - all those nice security offices. I don't know why, I just love stuff like that in level design of any game - security offices and tools, security teams, nice neatly arranged weapon storerooms, etc. I liked the same stuff in HL1, where there were Black Mesa guard offices, or security devices - such as those, uhmm, electricity things in Questionable Ethics, in the test rooms.
. id has always provided intense action and great graphics, but never too much plot.There's another part of Doom3 which I really liked - all those nice security offices. I don't know why, I just love stuff like that in level design of any game - security offices and tools, security teams, nice neatly arranged weapon storerooms, etc. I liked the same stuff in HL1, where there were Black Mesa guard offices, or security devices - such as those, uhmm, electricity things in Questionable Ethics, in the test rooms.
There are always different opinions, which is great, but I doubt that a HL2 forum is a good source for a fair representative sample of what people thought about Doom3, or what percentage of people liked it.
I could say more or less the same thing about any shooter released in the last several years. Deus Ex had a pretty good story line. The No One Lives Forever games were fairly plot heavy for a shooter, even if the plot was just an excuse for the whole 60s' thing. But, other than not, most shooters go for visceral thrills, even Half-life 2. A shooter with a fleshed out, extensive story is an oddball, and I haven't seen many people complaining about Doom III's.
Rather, people have been complaining that it suffers from generic shooter gameplay and lacks in scares, which I think is pretty reasonable considering the game was advertised as otherwise.
Uriel
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Then went wrong with DOOM 3 when they decided to make it a SciFi instead of a Horror game.
Alien Races?
Soul Cube?
Bah, what happened to just a plain Good vs Evil?
DOOM was about large spaces, rocket launchers, double barreled shotties, leathery brown imps and a Spider Demon Lord.
Not cramped spaces, flashlights and a Boss that can only be beaten by a alien artifact.
Where's my brass knuckles? Double barreled shotty with a woodstock? Big open spaces of Mars and the best suit ever fathomed in the history of gaming?
It was a good game, but I wanted a revamped Classic
Alien Races?
Soul Cube?
Bah, what happened to just a plain Good vs Evil?
DOOM was about large spaces, rocket launchers, double barreled shotties, leathery brown imps and a Spider Demon Lord.
Not cramped spaces, flashlights and a Boss that can only be beaten by a alien artifact.
Where's my brass knuckles? Double barreled shotty with a woodstock? Big open spaces of Mars and the best suit ever fathomed in the history of gaming?
It was a good game, but I wanted a revamped Classic
Cole
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Did I ever say it was? No I did not. I stated a simple fact. So please do not put words in my mouth or I will find you, hunt you down, and find you and stalk you forever!!!! Muahahahahahaha!! Arn't I such a devil?
I've actually recently got my hands on Ultimate Doom and Final Doom.
OMG we should have a Doom deathmatch!!!
I was actually just going through Inferno and got a little freaked out. I just strafed over quickly and was startled to see some animiated flesh moving over the wall. Then I seen some animated faces scrolling across another wall in a small spot. Little things like that set the tension.
impgrinder
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Then went wrong with DOOM 3 when they decided to make it a SciFi instead of a Horror game.
Alien Races?
Soul Cube?
Bah, what happened to just a plain Good vs Evil?
DOOM was about large spaces, rocket launchers, double barreled shotties, leathery brown imps and a Spider Demon Lord.
Not cramped spaces, flashlights and a Boss that can only be beaten by a alien artifact.
Where's my brass knuckles? Double barreled shotty with a woodstock? Big open spaces of Mars and the best suit ever fathomed in the history of gaming?
It was a good game, but I wanted a revamped Classic
No denying that the original dooms were legendary, but this is the new face of doom...and it breathes new life into the game.
Well, I think the change was good for me. Why remain stuck in the past?
So they progressed with the story line a bit. with the whole martian civilization thing. But they retained the hell theme of the original doom story and repackaged it in a different kind of mood. Instead of open spaces, you are still slaying demons in dark tunnels. I see D3 as more horror than sci-fi. I guess its personal opinion. The classic dooms had a strange mix of medieval and futuristic environments and was more "action" than "horror".
Its not like the source of the evil in D3 was genomic experiments like that lame excuse for the doom movie.
What was there to possibly like? It was crap.
AJ Rimmer
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It was not. It was a nice game, Starship Troopers-esque. Contrary to Doom 3 there was some story development, some nice characters with some excellent voice acting and AI teammates. Boss fights sucked and it was a bit too short but it was a fun ride none the less.
Wait. Nice characters? Translation: Badly written characters who weren't particularly well acted, which isn't suprising, given what they had to work with.
"A man like Kane could get us killed.."
"Shut the hell up Strauss!"
"Do I have to die to prove how valuable I am!"
"Kane...it's the Makron!"
"MUAHAHAHHAAA!!"
lolcakes. There was some jots of fun in there, but it was few and far between.
"A man like Kane could get us killed.."
"Shut the hell up Strauss!"
"Do I have to die to prove how valuable I am!"
"Kane...it's the Makron!"
"MUAHAHAHHAAA!!"
lolcakes. There was some jots of fun in there, but it was few and far between.
xcellerate
Tank
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the thing was, the game didn't make sense. If you were standing in a doorway and tossed a grenade behind a box, nothing would happen. But if you took 1 step forward like 15 guys will come running out.
The scare tactic for this game got too played out for my own good; I'd end up just running straight to the back of room so I could trigger all the events and then kill everybody.
I know all games have to load guys, but doom 3 could have chosen to load the guys as soon as the door opened, but they didn't because then you could possibly kill them without seeing them. Because of this games 'jump out at every opportunity' I ended up finishing the game faster than if they had not had it, because I'd just run and gun as fast as possible.
The scare tactic for this game got too played out for my own good; I'd end up just running straight to the back of room so I could trigger all the events and then kill everybody.
I know all games have to load guys, but doom 3 could have chosen to load the guys as soon as the door opened, but they didn't because then you could possibly kill them without seeing them. Because of this games 'jump out at every opportunity' I ended up finishing the game faster than if they had not had it, because I'd just run and gun as fast as possible.
No, you could kill them by throwing a grenade in. But quite rarely. Most zombies can be killed without seeing them like that - they are when they are. But yeah, in about 90% of cases, the non-zombie monsters teleport in when you cross a trigger line.
phantomdesign
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Those logs were boring and stupid...had to skimm through those annoying things to get door keys. There was no story in them or anything interesting, just something to make the tedious even more tedious!
586FAC75
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Ithankyou. You cannot polish a turd.
