Doom3 vs HL2

[Apos]

I also look forward to perfect reflections (which HL2 doesn't support, read the roundtable discussion)

Why are we plauged with morons? You don't even know what you mean by "perfect reflections," or whether what the Valve guys are talking about is even remotely the same thing as whatever you know about D3, yet you think they D3 has it and HL2 doesn't.

For the last time: in the Sharky interview, they say that they don't do subcutaneous reflections. This is not the same thing as standard mirrored reflections, which every FPS since years ago can do perfectly. Instead, it's accurate scattering reflections from human skin, giving it realistic depth. D3 doesn't do it either (in fact, it pretty much puts a plasticy cartoon sheen over everything). No game in the past or current does it, because the effect is very minor, but requires a huge overhead.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Norlan
For those of you whom said that Doom's story sucks, which makes Valve even worse since it borrowed Doom's idea and edited it for Half Life... ALSO, Doom III's story WON'T be ENTIRELY the SAME as the original, it will just use the same idea as the first game.

Doom did not necessarily have a bad story. It's the gameplay that sucked - kill 50 monsters, find the keycard, kill another 50 monsters, find another keycard, etc, etc. The story only existed in the player guide, there was no story in the actual game.

If Doom 3 fixes this (and I think it will), then it will be a good game.

 

[derby]

Apos, point taken, I was confusing subcutaneous reflections with d3's perpixel environment mapped reflections (like the marine's faceplate is fully reflective). I though subcutenous was referring to relfections across the skin of a model, not under it - however as I was unable to find any useful info on it (try searching, all you get is medical pages) I made an asssumption.

The argument remains the same however, that doom3's engine will suport features that HL2 doesn't. HL2 will maybe have features not in doom3.

There's no need to call me a moron, if you truly are the master of knowledge, there are more polite ways of sharing it.

 

[vann7]

Apos, point taken, I was confusing subcutaneous reflections with d3's perpixel environment mapped reflections (like the marine's faceplate is fully reflective). I though subcutenous was referring to relfections across the skin of a model, not under it - however as I was unable to find any useful info on it (try searching, all you get is medical pages) I made an asssumption. The argument remains the same however, that doom3's engine will suport features that HL2 doesn't. HL2 will maybe have features not in doom3. There's no need to call me a moron, if you truly are the master of knowledge, there are more polite ways of sharing it.

it is true .. that DM3 has features that HL2 doesnt have ,and HL2 features that Dm3 doesnt have.

However take a look at the portion of the E3 video where a marine is being thrown around the room. I believe all those movements have been animated in great detail, while in HL2 it could all be animated in real-time, with the physics engine calculating the body's movements and interations with the environment.

well to be honest ,i dont know whether the animated effects of that scene were animated in real time or not.. a good question to ask Idsoftware in quakecom2003. its similar to the scene where the GIANT MONTster get the chainsaw man ,and throw him to the wall ,and the Barrels move.
however i cant claim to know if they are done or not realtime or not. my first thought about that scene is that there is an invisible monster in Doom3 ,that you need to fight too . :cheese:

however the Physics in the DOom3 engine are nothing short to amazing to the say the least.if it were not for HL2 ,idsoftware could easily claim to have the best Physics engine. :cheers:
it could be true that halflife2 have a sthe best Physics engine ever made for a game ,but i will also say that D3 physics is very competitive is not -as good- as the Hl2 engine. in D3 [/b]alpha[/b]( a very early test) ,you can interact with objects too..(ragdoll physics). in fact the Physics in D3 alpha was one of the most impressive things i saw in the game. the diference is that in D3 the focus is not object interactivity ,like HL2 ,but more to scare you at all times. but everything is there in the engine ,so the MOD community can focus their games in whathever they want. so i think its very early ,to judge what is possible in D3 by looking at the physics of an unfinished engine or the interactivity we saw in trailers.
its remarkable to know that contrary to HL2 and UT2k3 physics ,that were licensed from others. D3 physics was developed in house ,by idsoftware.
is as simple as to ask john carmack what you want to see in the game . JCarmack is already testing DIrectx9+ features and FP24/FP32 in the D3 engine for his next big game. so as you see is too early to JUdge what we will see in Doom3 or not .

 

[Norlan]

Originally posted by LoneDeranger
Doom did not necessarily have a bad story. It's the gameplay that sucked - kill 50 monsters, find the keycard, kill another 50 monsters, find another keycard, etc, etc. The story only existed in the player guide, there was no story in the actual game.

If Doom 3 fixes this (and I think it will), then it will be a good game.

Consider it was a game made in '92, '93, the gameplay and everything else were quite awesome

 

[Apos]

No no: the marine being thrown around the room was rag-doll physics, not animation.

Reflections are not a big deal from a engine standpoint: they are mainly just a question of how much power you want to throw at them. It's the lighting system in D3 that's a big deal. I'd be interested if they have dynamic light reflections: i.e. you shine a flashlight on a mirror, and the beam is directed somewhere else. That'd be cool, though again, it's not so much a hard programming task as it is a question of whether you want to spend system resources on it.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Grrr Doom III sucks:flame: :flame: :flame:


Ok so i don't believe that really. I might buy it if i have the money. But really why post this. Most people keep posting the same re hashed info over and over again. It gets tiresome seeing these kinds of threads popping up.

 

[Apos]

In D3 they seem to at least be trying to get it right this time. Personally, I hope they succeed.

 

[Apos]

I thought they DID hire a writer for D3?

 

[Wesisapie]

The writer fell asleep on a drug haze for 3 months then wrote the script in 49 seconds before the deadline.

 

[Apos]

But I read not only about them hiring a novelist, but about the game's story being told in part through a PDA device on which you could access information about what's going on /what went on.

 

[Wesisapie]

... i was joking...

 

[$pazmatazz]

Originally posted by Wesisapie
... i was joking...

We figured so.

 

[NiteStalker]

Search the net for a game called Stalker (or S.T.A.L.K.E.R). It looks beautiful, and I think it will compete with HL2.
But I'll stick to HL2

Note: My name is not affected from that game, it was made up before the game was planned=)

:bounce: :flame: :bounce:

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by derby
I though subcutenous was referring to relfections across the skin of a model, not under it - however as I was unable to find any useful info on it (try searching, all you get is medical pages) I made an asssumption.

maybe check the dictionary? or dictionary.com?

 

[snark^]

Originally posted by nietzsche
They hired Matthew Costello, he was the writer for "The 7th Guest" (1993) and "The 11th Hour" (1995). ... [snip] ...

So now he's writing "The 3rd Doom" game? With my psionic supah snarkish^ senses I'm detecting a pattern here -- poor guy might wanna try something new before he gets a rep for churning out the same kind of stuff time after time.

 

[derby]

Did you check the dictionary? Because I did and the definition refers to things under the skin (as I said in my post). However it didn't really make sense to me in the context of reflections. I have yet to find any web page that makes a reference to subcutaneous reflections. Try searching google; It's useless.

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by snark^
So now he's writing "The 3rd Doom" game? With my psionic supah snarkish^ senses I'm detecting a pattern here -- poor guy might wanna try something new before he gets a rep for churning out the same kind of stuff time after time.

:dozey: what the **** do you mean.

 

[$pazmatazz]

Originally posted by worldspawn
:dozey: what the **** do you mean.

He means:

The 7th Guest
The 11th Hour
The 3rd Doom

Even though "The 3rd Doom" is really, "Doom 3". But you get the picture.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Positively

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by $pazmatazz
He means:

The 7th Guest
The 11th Hour
The 3rd Doom

Even though "The 3rd Doom" is really, "Doom 3". But you get the picture.

it's not like i didn't get his lame joke.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

You probably didnt. And now you're wanting to cover it up by trying to make him look bad.

 

[A.A]

Originally posted by NiteStalker
Search the net for a game called Stalker (or S.T.A.L.K.E.R). It looks beautiful, and I think it will compete with HL2.
But I'll stick to HL2

Note: My name is not affected from that game, it was made up before the game was planned=)

:bounce: :flame: :bounce:

Compete? Naa.. But the outdoor scenery looks real good, I haven't seen anything like it in a game before.

 

[Apos]

Did you check the dictionary?

No, because I know what the word means already.

Because I did and the definition refers to things under the skin (as I said in my post).

In your second post, that is.

However it didn't really make sense to me in the context of reflections.

Then why talk about something with certainty when you didn't understand?

I have yet to find any web page that makes a reference to subcutaneous reflections.

That's because it's a pretty technical issue. Not all the knowledge in the world is on the web. You probably have to seach through a really good text on 3d graphic rendering to find a place where it's discussed.

Essentially, the problem is that human skin is reflective (above and beyond most normal surfaces), but not quite in the way that other surfaces are, because human skin is also partially transparent, and thus the reflection comes from all different levels (and hence, angles).

Human hair is much easier to get right, but still nowhere near as easy as simple mirror reflections: it has a differential sheen, almost like lots of very very tiny diamonds, but then dulled out at certain angles.

 

[derby]

I wean't referring to you, apos, when I asked if you had checked the dictionary (I was instead referring to worldspawn who was implying that the info on subcutaneous reflections would be in the dictionary)

Anyway, thanks for the info. Note that I did not say that doom3 had this feature, merely that I was looking forward to it. The actualy text of the roundtable discussion mentions that HL2 deosn't support "correct reflections" (subcutaneous was an added afterwards in square parenthesis)

Anyways I really shouldn't have used the point in a comparison of features when I wasn't totally sure of it's meaning.

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by derby
I wean't referring to you, apos, when I asked if you had checked the dictionary (I was instead referring to worldspawn who was implying that the info on subcutaneous reflections would be in the dictionary)

Anyway, thanks for the info. Note that I did not say that doom3 had this feature, merely that I was looking forward to it. The actualy text of the roundtable discussion mentions that HL2 deosn't support "correct reflections" (subcutaneous was an added afterwards in square parenthesis)

Anyways I really shouldn't have used the point in a comparison of features when I wasn't totally sure of it's meaning.

sub·cu·ta·ne·ous ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sbky-tn-s)
adj.
Located or placed just beneath the skin: subcutaneous tissue; a subcutaneous implant.

 

[Tr0n]

i think h2 overall wins

 

[Norlan]

Originally posted by Tr0n
i think h2 overall wins

troll

 

[Wesisapie]

BLAH BLAH BLAH IT DOESN'T MATTER, CLOSE THIS PLEASE