Dynamic Weapon Pricing

*63 ****ing explodes with delight.
 
This actually sounds like a really unique and pretty damn fun idea!
Someone at VALVe deserves a nice bonus for thinking that up ;).

EDIT: I can see some of the problems that arise with the dynamic pricing. Mainly clan matches and the like. But really, my opinion is that if they bitch about it, they always have the untouchable 1.6 which they can feel free to go back to at any time.
 
Wow you guys are alot more mature here then the kids at steam forums.. i feel bad for smash and the other mods having to deal with them.
 
This is amazing. Finally, a reason to play CSS again!
 
Nice Idea

argh i cant stand the steam forums kids -_-
they just hate everything, they almost against any update valve do
 
They're going to complain it's the end of CS as we know it, everyone will leave, etc. etc.

They do the same thing every single update. Can you remember the outcry when CS1.6 was released? That was wild, that one. Now it's the great old version to go back to and sit and be nostalgic.

What I think's most likely to happen is the weapon prices will just hit equilibrium at what the weapons are actually worth, once people get over the compulsion to use the AK47 and M4 over and over and over.
 
Strategies in wars will have to be a lot more dynamic now, no more specific buy sets for each round - well, they will change per week.

No more buying 20 things in 2 seconds because I know all the shortcuts, now I'll have to look at prices, etc. It might not be too bad as long as weapons aren't drastically changed, but if the AK raises 1K that will be quite annoying.

I guess a lot of servers will increase freeze/buy time now too..


I do think it's painfully flawed though and I think this will turn CS:S into even more run and gun. I'll need to see how it works though when it's implemented as right now the reasons I belive that it is painfully flawed will only be proved [or disproved] when it's actually implemented.

Hopefully (And I bet there will be) there will be servers that will have standard price.


Next at 11, Valve announces RPG elements in CS:S persistent across all servers. ;)
 
destrukt said:
Strategies in wars will have to be a lot more dynamic now, no more specific buy sets for each round - well, they will change per week.

No more buying 20 things in 2 seconds because I know all the shortcuts, now I'll have to look at prices, etc. It might not be too bad as long as weapons aren't drastically changed, but if the AK raises 1K that will be quite annoying.

I guess a lot of servers will increase freeze/buy time now too..


I do think it's painfully flawed though and I think this will turn CS:S into even more run and gun. I'll need to see how it works though when it's implemented as right now the reasons I belive that it is painfully flawed will only be proved [or disproved] when it's actually implemented.

Hopefully (And I bet there will be) there will be servers that will have standard price.


Next at 11, Valve announces RPG elements in CS:S persistent across all servers. ;)
Click to expand...

DUN DUN DUN, it's only on Monday!

So... do you happen to play CS only on Monday? If not, I don't see the problem.
 
bigburpco said:
DUN DUN DUN, it's only on Monday!

So... do you happen to play CS only on Monday? If not, I don't see the problem.
Click to expand...
That's why I said per week. :p
destrukt said:
Strategies in wars will have to be a lot more dynamic now, no more specific buy sets for each round - well, they will change per week.
Click to expand...
If I play CS:S on Monday is totally irrelevant as if I do not play on a Monday that doesn't somehow negate the price changes.. ? I don't see what you're getting at.. :eek:
 
This is stupid. It kills competitive gaming because no one will buy the cheaper guns. An M4 at 6,000 dollars is still orders of magnitude better than a FAMAS at 2,000. It's a simple fact. The less used guns are less used because they are bad, not because they are expensive. Only newbies and people who want to **** around will use the other guns. The rest of us will still use the M4, AK47 and AWP, because they are the most effective. This change will just slow the game down, skew the game towards the Ts even more (CTs already have a tough time outfitting themselves fully compared to Ts) and just muck everything up more than it needs to be.

The reason the M4 and AK47 are used the most are because they are the best guns in the game. Price has little to do with it. This entire update reeks of unnecessary change and idiocy. The pricing scheme assumes all guns are equal, but they aren't. A TMP is garbage, no matter what it's price is. The AK47 and M4 will always remain the most bought rifles, regardless of reasonable pricing. SMGs are garbage, and always will be. They are too inaccurate to use long distance and deal too little damage up close (takes 3 hits to the head w/ helmet at least, or 6-8 in the chest). They are only good vs unarmored foes, but so are the rifles. SMGs offer no advantage whatsoever over rifles.

Frankly, CSS did not need this update at all. The guns were balanced. The pricing scheme worked. Now, you can't even buy a deagle on a save round, because it's high price precludes it's use. The whole point of a save round is saving your money for the next round. A deagle at 900 bucks is just too expensive to do that. And the pistol prices won't mean a thing, simply because those pistols are garbage. CTs already start with the best or second best (depending on your viewpoint) pistol in the game. No one buys the glock because it's bad, not because it's too expensive. Making it free won't make the glock more used.

I've supported source since it went public beta in 2004. I like it a lot and I've played in leagues since they supported it. However, a change like this is just unnecessary and extremely flawed. It is extremely detrimental to the competitive arena. Public servers are already newbie-friendly; 25% of pub servers have the AWP disabled or restricted, and 20% of all server have 16k start money. For the vast majority of pubbers, this change will have little to no effect. It's the competitive players who hurt from this change. The lesser guns will remain less used, regardless of price. I can't see myself using a FAMAS at 1,800 while the M4 is at 4,500. The M4 is just that good. Nor can I see myself using the galil at 1,800 while the AK is at 3,000. Again, the AK is better in every way, even at that price differential. Most competitive people would agree. The whole economy of save rounds goes out of whack as well. It will be much harder than it already is to win a save round. Deagles are too expensive to buy on a save round at 900 bucks. Stuck with USPs or glocks vs automatic weapons? No thanks. It also gives a HUGE momentum bonus to those winning rounds. The effective guns, like AWP, M4, and AK47 will cost more money, meaning less money to go around for nades, flashes, smokes, and armor. Buying the less effective guns is akin to gambling. They are simply not consistent enough to use in a match. I can say with near certainity that losing the first 4 rounds in a match (pistol, two saves, gun round) will be a death knell for the half. The losing team will be way too money-****ed to do anything for another round at least, maybe even two if prices go high enough. Competitive CS:S will turn into a joke. Instead of having 8 or 9 gun rounds (both sides have full equipment), we'll see maybe 3 or 4 gun rounds with many more save rounds.

Unless there is a cvar restricting this new pricing model, I really don't see the competitive Source scene surviving. It's already struggling hard today. CEVO-A only has about 100 teams active and CAL-O has 300 active teams by the second week. Trust me, that's not a very large amount. Additionally, Source has far fewer LANs than 1.6. Competitive Source needs help not deterance. Changes like these will only fuel the exodus away from source. I, myself, definitely won't compete with an update like this affecting my team.


Forgot to add my credentials. I played CAL-Premier in 1.6 with e-police for a few seasons, went to CPL with shockwave and u5 on 1.6. I've been CAL-M on Source with LOT and Nemesis. I definitely know my way around this game :)
 
0mar said:
This is stupid. It kills competitive gaming because no one will buy the cheaper guns. An M4 at 6,000 dollars is still orders of magnitude better than a FAMAS at 2,000. It's a simple fact. The less used guns are less used because they are bad, not because they are expensive. Only newbies and people who want to **** around will use the other guns. The rest of us will still use the M4, AK47 and AWP, because they are the most effective. This change will just slow the game down, skew the game towards the Ts even more (CTs already have a tough time outfitting themselves fully compared to Ts) and just muck everything up more than it needs to be.

The reason the M4 and AK47 are used the most are because they are the best guns in the game. Price has little to do with it. This entire update reeks of unnecessary change and idiocy. The pricing scheme assumes all guns are equal, but they aren't. A TMP is garbage, no matter what it's price is. The AK47 and M4 will always remain the most bought rifles, regardless of reasonable pricing. SMGs are garbage, and always will be. They are too inaccurate to use long distance and deal too little damage up close (takes 3 hits to the head w/ helmet at least, or 6-8 in the chest). They are only good vs unarmored foes, but so are the rifles. SMGs offer no advantage whatsoever over rifles.

Frankly, CSS did not need this update at all. The guns were balanced. The pricing scheme worked. Now, you can't even buy a deagle on a save round, because it's high price precludes it's use. The whole point of a save round is saving your money for the next round. A deagle at 900 bucks is just too expensive to do that. And the pistol prices won't mean a thing, simply because those pistols are garbage. CTs already start with the best or second best (depending on your viewpoint) pistol in the game. No one buys the glock because it's bad, not because it's too expensive. Making it free won't make the glock more used.

I've supported source since it went public beta in 2004. I like it a lot and I've played in leagues since they supported it. However, a change like this is just unnecessary and extremely flawed. It is extremely detrimental to the competitive arena. Public servers are already newbie-friendly; 25% of pub servers have the AWP disabled or restricted, and 20% of all server have 16k start money. For the vast majority of pubbers, this change will have little to no effect. It's the competitive players who hurt from this change. The lesser guns will remain less used, regardless of price. I can't see myself using a FAMAS at 1,800 while the M4 is at 4,500. The M4 is just that good. Nor can I see myself using the galil at 1,800 while the AK is at 3,000. Again, the AK is better in every way, even at that price differential. Most competitive people would agree. The whole economy of save rounds goes out of whack as well. It will be much harder than it already is to win a save round. Deagles are too expensive to buy on a save round at 900 bucks. Stuck with USPs or glocks vs automatic weapons? No thanks. It also gives a HUGE momentum bonus to those winning rounds. The effective guns, like AWP, M4, and AK47 will cost more money, meaning less money to go around for nades, flashes, smokes, and armor. Buying the less effective guns is akin to gambling. They are simply not consistent enough to use in a match. I can say with near certainity that losing the first 4 rounds in a match (pistol, two saves, gun round) will be a death knell for the half. The losing team will be way too money-****ed to do anything for another round at least, maybe even two if prices go high enough. Competitive CS:S will turn into a joke. Instead of having 8 or 9 gun rounds (both sides have full equipment), we'll see maybe 3 or 4 gun rounds with many more save rounds.

Unless there is a cvar restricting this new pricing model, I really don't see the competitive Source scene surviving. It's already struggling hard today. CEVO-A only has about 100 teams active and CAL-O has 300 active teams by the second week. Trust me, that's not a very large amount. Additionally, Source has far fewer LANs than 1.6. Competitive Source needs help not deterance. Changes like these will only fuel the exodus away from source. I, myself, definitely won't compete with an update like this affecting my team.
Click to expand...

We're doomed! :rolleyes:

Or just don't play matches on monday.

Or just learn to fight with some cheaper guns (galil and defender are great guns, smg's can be too).

Or just don't exaggerate the price difference. It's only gonna be around 10- 25% max.

Or just go back to 1.6.
 
The Brick said:
We're doomed! :rolleyes:

Or just don't play matches on monday.
Click to expand...

Prices are permanent throughout the week. They are just updated weekly on Monday.

Or just learn to fight with some cheaper guns (galil and defender are great guns, smg's can be too).
Click to expand...

Wrong. Galil and FAMAS are bad guns. They aren't accurate, don't deal as much damage and have longer reload times. Trust me, I spent a lot of time in 1.6 and in Source trying to justify buying them. You can't kill the other team as reliably as you can with the AK47 and M4.

SMGs are garbage. They are useless at most ranges, they do little damage and have low caliber bullets. They can't penetrate doors. Realistically, if I have 3,000 dollars, I'm not going to buy an SMG. I'm going to save my money to buy a rifle. An SMG is a waste of money, in competitive gaming.

Or just don't exaggerate the price difference. It's only gonna be around 10- 25% max.
Click to expand...

It'll probably be more. I can't see the M4 and AK47 ever dropping below the 50% line Valve arbitarily used. The M4 and AK47 will always increase in price. They are simply the best guns in the game. Did you even read the pricing scheme?

Also, do you see yourself not using the M4 and AK47 in lieu of the other guns? I don't see myself, nor any competent player using the other guns. They are too random to be used reliably. The M4 and AK47 are not as random; in fact they are fairly predictable. That's why these guns are used. The Mac10 won't magically become more effective.

Or just go back to 1.6.
Click to expand...

Aye, that's what I'll do if there's no cvar restricting it.. CSS competition will suffer greatly because of this change, not benefit from it. I really wanted competitive CSS to suceed, but Valve is trying their damned hardest to make it fail.
 
Damn at first I too thought it were permanent changes, but everyone said it's only on monday D:

I never said those guns shoot just as well, but you can definately learn to fight with them. Meaning avoiding long distances etc. Btw, I found the galil to be a little more accurate than the AK, but it's probably just me. Famas is good for countering rushers and groups of enemies. It fires really fast and is really controllable for noobs with the burst fire mode. The mp5 can be a very good buy for a clan in the 3rd round.

This update is just to encourage players to buy cheaper guns. I would buy a little worse gun if it's half the price. It guarantees you can buy a rifle again next round. The m4 and AK aren't magically so incredibly much better than some other guns. It's how you use them. It's true that they are very good in almost any situation, but if you avoid some of them, other weapons can do great too. Btw, the equipment will get cheaper, so you save more on a saveround. And it will compensate a bit when you buy a full pack with one of the rifles.

The only thing I don't like is the deagle.. That is just wrong. I would be happier to see it drop in price, so more people buy it. Then more people would stand a better chance against an enemy with a rifle.
 
I know if you spray, the galil is more accurate than an AK (by far). But what about 1 bullet? I always 1-2 shot burst with the AK/Colt. It is rare if I spray with it. And the damage a gun does makes a big difference too. I always buy the AK because I can consistently headshot my enemies even if they have a helmet.

Side note, why do people buy the AK and spray with it on pubs? If they wanted to spray they should have bought a SMG or Para. lol

I haven't seen where Valve said it would be Mondays only. Just a few forum posts.
 
Well you can burst accurately with 3 shots each time with them. It deals a little less damage but the extra bullet oftenly compensates that (if you hit them all 3). It takes the AK 3 or 4 hits to kill someone. That is 2 bursts. Oftenly you miss one of them because short burst with the ak are screwed up if you move a little bit out of sync. But with the galil you can fire 6 bullets in 2 bursts. I found that to be more effective. But it is a wee bit slower. The AK wins if you're talking about 3 bursts.
 
I can consistantly down an enemy with 1 or 2 shots to the head with an AK. I don't aim for the body. But I take a lot longer killing someone if it's a weaker weapon and spraying. And I don't do nearly as well bursting with the colt as I do with the AK. Dunno why. Is the colt not as accurate as the AK?
If I was playing CS 1.6 I'd probably pick the MP5 if I was short on cash. But I really suck with the MP5 in Source.
 
I prefer the Galil + Famas over AK/M4 :(

Gal feels more accurate than AK, Famas on triburst owns.
 
Asus said:
Is the colt not as accurate as the AK?
Click to expand...
I'd say they're basically equal and I do as well with either, by well I mean a HS 99% of the time but I play too much. :x

+1 to everything 0mar says.
 
The first shot of the ak is more precise, but the second shot on the colt is closer to the first one than on the ak.
 
Forcing people to buy different weapons makes the game more fun and interesting.

It makes you use weapons that you wouldn't before therefore building up your skills for that weapon.
 
PsychoFreak said:
Forcing people to buy different weapons makes the game more fun and interesting.

It makes you use weapons that you wouldn't before therefore building up your skills for that weapon.
Click to expand...
Certain guns aren't used because they suck and no amount of 'skill building' is going to change that.
 
It will be interesting to see how the prices and game dynamics change over the first few months. The initial changes are small but since the prices change according to how much has been spent on the items. For example the AK goes from $2,500 to $2,698, this isn't a big change to begin with so most people wont change their habits - but this then means that the next price update will increase the cost again. At some point people will be forced to change their buying habits and buy something else (as guns like the AK increase in price most other guns will come down in price). The question is where is that point? Even a 25% increase in the AK's price still makes it a worthwhile buy at $3000.

In the end most people are going to be buying the 'shit' weapons with guns like the AK things you save up for. This will probably will lead to a increased lifetime for many players as the shit guns are harder to kill people with. In short this update is going to change the way CS is played a lot.


The Deagle has always been a huge bargin at $650 so an increase make sense. It won't stay at $930 since it can't be bought in the first round the number of buys will decrease a lot. IMO it will probably settle down to about $850 so that it can't be bought in the first round.

I am a bit worried about what this will mean for CS's popularity. Most casual gamers don't care that much about the other changes - like the new radar. But when the play a game where their favourite gun, the AK, is priced at $3200 (for example) and are forced to buy shit guns they are not going to be happy.

Oh and im sure there will be a cvar to change back to normal prices - you can't expect the pro community to make plans based on weapon prices that might change and obsolete your plan the next week.


EDIT: Check this out if you click on the weapons on the list at http://steampowered.com/stats/csmarket/ you see that the predictions are not based on current trends. The red line indicates how, after October the 11th, they think the weapon prices will be affected.

If you look at the graphs they expect an immediate drop off in the amount of buys of all the guns that will be more expensive. I disagree, as mentioned, I don't think people are suddenly stop buying as many AK's just because they are $200 more expensive.
 
Operational this is a good way to solve the pricing problem though. You know AK's and M4's are incredibly over-balanced and are used by 90%-odd of the people who play. If the price raises, people who used to buy them won't buy them as much, which will lower the price next week, meaning they can buy them.
It's a good idea, because the eventual price will be stuck between about 2 points each week. the first few weeks may be erratic though.
 
And in one fell swoop, Valve single-handedly destroy the competitive CS source scene. It was fun while it lasted.. back to 1.6 then, I suppose..
 
Barney_Calhoun said:
And in one fell swoop, Valve single-handedly destroy the competitive CS source scene. It was fun while it lasted.. back to 1.6 then, I suppose..
Click to expand...

Good. Glad you're not coming into my servers and complaining xD
 
That's because your servers are public, and the very fact that the public scene now has control over the pricing of the competitive scene means that CS Source will no longer be played competitively.
 
Barney_Calhoun said:
That's because your servers are public, and the very fact that the public scene now has control over the pricing of the competitive scene means that CS Source will no longer be played competitively.
Click to expand...
You all complain too much about us pubbers anyway :p.
 
In the beginning, I thought the new radar sucked. Then I got used to it.

So, I don't like this idea, but am going to give it some time.
 
Has anyone emailed valve to ask if the dynamic prices can be turned off? If not, I will.
 
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