Electronic Piracy

[Thadius Dean]

That point being justification of crime.

You see, it's not about companies, it's about simple human decency and respect for other man's work. Each company is composed of men just like you and me, and music/software is the effect of their continued hard work.

By stealing it you take their income, income they DESERVE, from them.

It seems your stupidity is inherent and inherited - it must be a blessing that you can buy your aunt a present and not worry about getting one for Mother's Day, eh?

Yes, but he is arguing for it in an economic sense, not a moral one. I can see what you are mechagozilla are talking about: it's downright stealing, and that is bad. Sadly capitalism and morality don't blend together well, as you can see by what various companies have done in the past.

 

[repiV]

That point being justification of crime.

You see, it's not about companies, it's about simple human decency and respect for other man's work. Each company is composed of men just like you and me, and music/software is the effect of their continued hard work.

By stealing it you take their income, income they DESERVE, from them.

It seems your stupidity is inherent and inherited - it must be a blessing that you can buy your aunt a present and not worry about getting one for Mother's Day, eh?

Our society doesn't run on "human decency and respect", that's just an illusion manufactured so that people like yourself can sleep soundly at night. It runs on competition and good old fashioned greed. Greed is what drives us to excel. Greed is what drives people to build huge corporations behind them. Do you think big corporations got where they are by being decent and respecting other people's right to make a profit? Ha!
They deserve their income when they make it worth my while to give them money. If I'm not buying stuff from them, they obviously don't deserve my money. It's as simple as that. Only pussies whine about how "it's not fair". Winners make things happen.
Surely you can do better than calling me stupid. It's rather pathetic to watch.

 

[[RnL]Stefan]

Our society doesn't run on "human decency and respect", that's just an illusion manufactured so that people like yourself can sleep soundly at night. It runs on competition and good old fashioned greed. Greed is what drives us to excel. Greed is what drives people to build huge corporations behind them. Do you think big corporations got where they are by being decent and respecting other people's right to make a profit? Ha!
They deserve their income when they make it worth my while to give them money. If I'm not buying stuff from them, they obviously don't deserve my money. It's as simple as that. Only pussies whine about how "it's not fair". Winners make things happen.
Surely you can do better than calling me stupid. It's rather pathetic to watch.

you're probably right, talking about the society, greed and income.

yet if you say a company is not deserving your money, their product is not worth it, why get it eventually by downloading?

if a thing is not worth to be paid for, it's not worth to be played, heard, seen, otherwise you'd pay for it. if you say for example, "i wont buy bf2142, cuz ea sucks. but i will dl it cuz its fun", that might be true but doesnt justify downloading it. if you have fun with it, it's worth to be paid for, no matter how greedy ea is.

everything else is theft, in one way or another.

 

[repiV]

Yes, but he is arguing for it in an economic sense, not a moral one. I can see what you are mechagozilla are talking about: it's downright stealing, and that is bad. Sadly capitalism and morality don't blend together well, as you can see by what various companies have done in the past.

Canderous in SW:KOTOR said words to the effect of: "In Mandalorian society, there is no such thing as murder. If you are too weak to defend yourself, then you don't deserve to live."
Fortunately our world is not quite that ruthless, however that principle applies exactly in business. Business is nothing more than a civilised method of fighting over resources. War without death.
People who are great in business are ruthless, cunning and focused on the bottom line. They seek out every opportunity they can to take, take, take from their competitors and the market.
They also hold themselves accountable for their own failures, rather than blaming other people because their margins slipped. "Oh noes teh pirates!!"
All these lawsuits are not in pursuit of morality, but profit. It's nothing more than a tool in their arsenal to bring in more cash.
Companies would just as quickly use piracy to their advantage if they saw an opportunity to do so. In one of the Quake III patches, they disabled the CD-key check. Lots of new people played the game - then they added it back in in the next patch. ****ing brilliant!

The world is harsh. Some people just don't seem to understand that - or don't want to.

 

[Asus]

Get on your high horse all you want, I'm sure it makes you feel high and mighty.
The fact of the matter is, if a company cannot provide value for money, they will lose sales. When they make it worth purchasing games again, people will buy.
So long as they delay release dates in certain regions whilst the game is available freely online, they will lose out.
You think they give a shit about you? You're extremely naive.
They reserve the right to do whatever it takes to get money out of me, and I reserve the same right to get the greatest benefit for the least money.
That's the way of the world - and morality has nothing to do with it. You don't have to like it, but go preach to someone who gives a damn. Companies don't care about me, and I don't care about them. Just as capitalism intended.

This is very true. But I see NOTHING in that paragraph that means you can infringe on other's copyright / steal.

 

[repiV]

you're probably right, talking about the society, greed and income.

yet if you say a company is not deserving your money, their product is not worth it, why get it eventually by downloading?

if a thing is not worth to be paid for, it's not worth to be played, heard, seen, otherwise you'd pay for it. if you say for example, "i wont buy bf2142, cuz ea sucks. but i will dl it cuz its fun", that might be true but doesnt justify downloading it. if you have fun with it, it's worth to be paid for, no matter how greedy ea is.

everything else is theft, in one way or another.

As I pointed out above, companies deserve what they manage to take. No more, no less. Smart businessmen look for ways to solve their problems, they don't stamp their feet and whine.
You're just speaking from emotion.

 

[repiV]

This is very true. But I see NOTHING in that paragraph that means you can infringe on other's copyright / steal.

If it's possible, then I can.

 

[[RnL]Stefan]

As I pointed out above, companies deserve what they manage to take. No more, no less. Smart businessmen look for ways to solve their problems, they don't stamp their feet and whine.
You're just speaking from emotion.

nah, not from emotion.

yet there's something to control society, and preserves them from going on a rampage and steal/take anything they want. it's called law and anyone *should* stick to it.

what you say is: smart business man (you) find ways to find the cheapest solition. in this case it's plain and simple theft. and that it's unlikely that you will ever be caught doesn't make it unlawful and accepted.

you don't walk into a company and steal their stuff or copy their blue prints when they're not around by justifying yourself with something like: "hey they were on vacation, it's not my fault that they didnt manage to protect their stuff, so i take it".

but that's exactly what you say, the only difference is, you copy stuff, don't physically take it and you don't even have to move out of your house to do it. but that doesn't make it right.

 

[repiV]

nah, not from emotion.

yet there's something to control society, and preserves them from going on a rampage and steal/take anything they want. it's called law and anyone *should* stick to it.

what you say is: smart business man (you) find ways to find the cheapest solition. in this case it's plain and simple theft. and that it's unlikely that you will ever be caught doesn't make it unlawful and accepted.

You'll have to do a lot better than "you have to do it because it's the law" to convince me.

you don't walk into a company and steal their stuff or copy their blue prints when they're not around by justifying yourself with something like: "hey they were on vacation, it's not my fault that they didnt manage to protect their stuff, so i take it"

What, you've never heard of corporate espionage?

 

[Tagaziel]

repiV, you amaze me. Just when I thought we evolved to a point where we can say we are no longer like our ancestors living in stone huts, then you come around.

Who are you?

Apparently you condone theft, murder, corruption etc. (citing a ruthless murderer from KOTOR? Very... telling...). Why?

You say you can only have what you can wrestle from the others.

Then why are you buying food? Just steal it from the market, don't forget to punch the cashier in the face on your way out.
Why are you paying for an internet connection? Hack someone's decent uplink and make him pay your bills.
Let's go further, why buy a car? Just cut someone's throat, dump him in the river and take his car!

Principles. It all boils down to principles. If you are corrupt to the point, that you adopt the "Law of the Jungle" (strongest wins) as your life motto, then I can honestly say, that you are not only an idiot, but a retarded idiot!

Thank God (and M'Atra while we're at it) that a majority of the world's population can be considered decent people.

EDIT: Are you at any rate anarchist?

 

[[RnL]Stefan]

so you're saying you don't care about law at all? is it ok for you if i come by tomorrow and kill you in order to take your pc or money? it that, best result with least effort for you?

 

[repiV]

repiV, you amaze me. Just when I thought we evolved to a point where we can say we are no longer like our ancestors living in stone huts, then you come around.

Who are you?

Apparently you condone theft, murder, corruption etc. (citing a ruthless murderer from KOTOR? Very... telling...). Why?

You say you can only have what you can wrestle from the others.

Then why are you buying food? Just steal them from the market, don't forget to punch the cashier in the face on your way out.
Why are you paying for an internet connection? Hack someone's decent uplink and make him pay your bills.
Let's go further, why buy a car? Just cut someone's throat, dump him in the river and take his car!

Principles. It all boils down to principles. If you are corrupt to the point, that you adopt the "Law of the Jungle" (strongest wins) as your life motto, then I can honestly say, that you are not only an idiot, but a retarded idiot!

Thank God (and M'Atra while we're at it) that a majority of the world's population can be considered decent people.

You are the idiot here, firstly because you think I condone murder, but secondly because you refuse to recognise the world for what it is.
It's very easy to shield yourself from the reality in today's world - you can give yourself the illusion of security and good intentions by doing a stable job that means something to you.
But that job is only yours to have because the big sharks above you are taking from the other sharks.
In politics...Bin Laden is a noble freedom fighter when he can hurt the Soviets, and an evil terrorist when he is harming the Americans.
In business...it's the same. Everything is but a tool to be used to generate profit.
We are just like our ancestors in stone huts. And you will never be rich.
You see the world as you want it to be, and not as it is.

I'm just telling you simple ****ing facts here, it's got nothing to do with whether or not I am a decent person. You harbour your delusions that everyone is caring and out for the interests of others all you want, the truth is far removed from your fantasy.

EDIT: Are you at any rate anarchist?

No. Centre-right, more like.

 

[repiV]

so you're saying you don't care about law at all? is it ok for you if i come by tomorrow and kill you in order to take your pc or money? it that, best result with least effort for you?

No. Just citing the law by itself is not a reason.
Laws are created by powerful people, usually to tighten the control of corporations and governments over individuals.

 

[[RnL]Stefan]

No. Just citing the law by itself is not a reason.
Laws are created by powerful people, usually to tighten the control of corporations and governments over individuals.

ouch...i'll stop discussing with you now, that's no good. you are either anarchist, communist or both and therefore deserve to be ignored by my capitalist being.

 

[repiV]

ouch...i'll stop discussing with you now, that's no good. you are either anarchist, communist or both and therefore deserve to be ignored by my capitalist being.

No, I'm most definitely a capitalist. I'm not quite sure where the hell you pulled that conclusion from as I've been making capitalist arguments constantly.
I simply recognise the world for what it is, not what it ought to be.
It's their right to pass laws protecting their interests, and it's my right to ignore them. The market rules.

 

[Tagaziel]

You see, it's people like you that are pulling the world down into the gutter with their "the world for what it is!".

No.

The world is what we make it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

And I will be rich, lawyers in this country get paid quite a lot of money, my good idiot. Just because you have problems with your attitude and finding work with it doesn't mean everybody is like you.

Laws are created by powerful people, usually to tighten the control of corporations and governments over individuals.

How sweet... you say you are capitalist? My dear moron, this is an argument I heard countless times from anarchists... and it is as stupid as it has been. To learn why, just look at history and why laws were estabilished - so that people could've dealt with each other in a fair and just way, and wouldn't rip each other off. I know that, because I am currently studying law.

The world around me is beautiful, but it's in a bad shape and needs fixing. And assholes like you and Polish government are what keeps destroying it.

 

[Thadius Dean]

nah, not from emotion.

yet there's something to control society, and preserves them from going on a rampage and steal/take anything they want. it's called law and anyone *should* stick to it.

what you say is: smart business man (you) find ways to find the cheapest solition. in this case it's plain and simple theft. and that it's unlikely that you will ever be caught doesn't make it unlawful and accepted.

you don't walk into a company and steal their stuff or copy their blue prints when they're not around by justifying yourself with something like: "hey they were on vacation, it's not my fault that they didnt manage to protect their stuff, so i take it".

but that's exactly what you say, the only difference is, you copy stuff, don't physically take it and you don't even have to move out of your house to do it. but that doesn't make it right.

Well actually people do steal stuff from companies. They're just pens, pencils, etc.

repiV, you amaze me. Just when I thought we evolved to a point where we can say we are no longer like our ancestors living in stone huts, then you come around.

Who are you?

Apparently you condone theft, murder, corruption etc. (citing a ruthless murderer from KOTOR? Very... telling...). Why?

You say you can only have what you can wrestle from the others.

Then why are you buying food? Just steal it from the market, don't forget to punch the cashier in the face on your way out.
Why are you paying for an internet connection? Hack someone's decent uplink and make him pay your bills.
Let's go further, why buy a car? Just cut someone's throat, dump him in the river and take his car!

Principles. It all boils down to principles. If you are corrupt to the point, that you adopt the "Law of the Jungle" (strongest wins) as your life motto, then I can honestly say, that you are not only an idiot, but a retarded idiot!

Thank God (and M'Atra while we're at it) that a majority of the world's population can be considered decent people.

EDIT: Are you at any rate anarchist?

It would be a lot easier to pay for the bread than take it for free and go to jail

so you're saying you don't care about law at all? is it ok for you if i come by tomorrow and kill you in order to take your pc or money? it that, best result with least effort for you?

If you are willing to take the consequences of it, then sure go ahead and do that.

All of these things you are able to do, but no one does it because it's not worth it. Downloading music on the otherhand, the odds are much in our favor. I take the tiny risk of being caught so that I may enjoy some music.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

That's not just lame. It's flat-out stupid.

Obviously you would pay for it because you took steps to steal it.

No, I wouldn't

Your goal is to take that music from someone else.
You just decided to do it the wrong way.

replacing 'wrong way' with pirating, then yes, I do it because I don't think its soooo damned wrong.

"Laziness" isn't a reason

Yes, it is; obviously you dont know me and for me, that is a good damn reason for this particular thing (pirating) for me :angel:

...to violate the consent required to do so because, given that the act of purchasing music is something even a retarded chimp could accomplish, you would have to be incapacitated in some way for that to be an issue. Especially when you can buy any track you want online for a dollar.

It's not an issue, I'm lazy and don't want to spend money unless I realllllllly want to pay for it. (Usually something I respect enough to buy, 99% of the time it ends up being crap and I end up deleting it, if I download it and find it to be something worth my money I actually do buy it sometimes). Some things I can't get at all, like subbed anime (atleast not untill it comes out in the US, till then I rely on the fansubs available.)

Being antisocial is the problem here.

Perhaps included, solely for me, no. coughlazyness

Yeah, there's a real mythological difference there.
I've already told you that the CD does not matter. If your parents don't care, that's probably because they, like you, are stuck thinking in terms of physical objects when that simply doesn't apply to reality today.

My parents dont have anything to do with this, so dont bring them in.

The crime isn't any different, except the information you steal is slightly cheaper due to less packaging.

It is different as far as arguing about it goes, since I believe someone mentioned before that companies lose money, I just pointed out that cd manufacturing companys are losing money either way.

The only difference is in how likely you are to be caught.
And no, that's not an excuse either.

I'm not justifying that as an excuse.

 

[Absinthe]

Adapt or die. Nature's law.

This is the kind of blindingly stupid comment I'd expect from fourteen year old twits thinking they're hard.

 

[Asus]

I know you think it isn't going to happen to you and that may be. But what if it did...after you were caught would you say it was worth getting something you can live without (some songs/programs) yet having to cough up a lot of money?

If the legal fees would take all your cash if caught, it's pretty risky/foolish to keep downloading even if the chance of getting caught is low. College students are probably in the worse place because their chance of getting caught is higher (being watched) and they probably fall into that 'low on cash' category.

 

[Thadius Dean]

I know you think it isn't going to happen to you and that may be. But what if it did...after you were caught would you say it was worth getting something you can live without (some songs/programs) yet having to cough up a lot of money?

If the legal fees would take all your cash if caught, it's pretty risky/foolish to keep downloading even if the chance of getting caught is low. College students are probably in the worse place because their chance of getting caught is higher (being watched) and they probably fall into that 'low on cash' category.

If I got caught then of course I'd be saying it wasn't worth it, but that's just human nature: I probably wouldn't be saying "oops! Well I guess I had it coming."

The chances of being caught are probably smaller than getting in a car accident, but I'm not going to stop driving because the risk isn't worth taking--it's very much worth taking.

That's not the best analogy, but I think you see what I'm getting at.

 

[Thadius Dean]

No, I wouldn't

replacing 'wrong way' with pirating, then yes, I do it because I don't think its soooo damned wrong.

Yes, it is; obviously you dont know me and for me, that is a good damn reason for this particular thing (pirating) for me :angel:

It's not an issue, I'm lazy and don't want to spend money unless I realllllllly want to pay for it. (Usually something I respect enough to buy, 99% of the time it ends up being crap and I end up deleting it, if I download it and find it to be something worth my money I actually do buy it sometimes). Some things I can't get at all, like subbed anime (atleast not untill it comes out in the US, till then I rely on the fansubs available.)

Perhaps included, solely for me, no. coughlazyness

My parents dont have anything to do with this, so dont bring them in.

It is different as far as arguing about it goes, since I believe someone mentioned before that companies lose money, I just pointed out that cd manufacturing companys are losing money either way.

I'm not justifying that as an excuse.

A lot of those quotes were directed at me, don't take the parent thing personally.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Ah k

 

[Puzzlemaker]

I still don't see why this discussion is going on. Pirating = stealing. There really isn't much else to say...

 

[unlawflcombatnt]

47% think it should be LEGAL?

47% think electronic vote piracy should be LEGAL?

I guess that means 47% of those voting on this poll are Rebublicans. Or comedians. Or both.

EconomicPopulistForum

_________________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

 

[repiV]

You see, it's people like you that are pulling the world down into the gutter with their "the world for what it is!".

No.

The world is what we make it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

I see you're quite the idealist. Crusader Mikael Grizzly is going to change the world singlehandedly, legislating for peace and great justice!

And I will be rich, lawyers in this country get paid quite a lot of money, my good idiot. Just because you have problems with your attitude and finding work with it doesn't mean everybody is like you.

That's extremely presumptious of you. Pretty idiotic too.

How sweet... you say you are capitalist? My dear moron, this is an argument I heard countless times from anarchists... and it is as stupid as it has been. To learn why, just look at history and why laws were estabilished - so that people could've dealt with each other in a fair and just way, and wouldn't rip each other off. I know that, because I am currently studying law.

You're currently studying law. So you're just another clueless student, I take it?

The world around me is beautiful, but it's in a bad shape and needs fixing. And assholes like you and Polish government are what keeps destroying it.

So you're going to fix the world by becoming a lawyer? Good one!

By the way, it's pretty stupid to equate piracy with stealing. You are not depriving anyone of anything since data can be replicated. A more appropriate comparison would be that you made a copy of someone's bike and rode off with it.

 

[repiV]

This is the kind of blindingly stupid comment I'd expect from fourteen year old twits thinking they're hard.

What's stupid about it? That's the law of business and ultimately the world. If you can't control the market, the market will control you - as the market is currently controlling publishers/record companies due to their inability to adapt and use the internet to their advantage.
Just because the majority of people in developed countries are shielded from this reality (by existing off providing their services to others - ie. being employed by someone else), does not make it any less true.
There are sheep and there are sharks. Sharks run businesses and countries. Sheep work for sharks.

 

[Tagaziel]

Well, thank you very much for your, oh so thoughtful, info.

Now, to the point. I'm not a clueless student and you are a frustrated moron. Period.

I am an idealist, and by no means crusader. What I do know is that I can make a difference by changing the world around me in small increments, one step at a time. It won't change the whole world, but it will change my surroundings for the better. Changing the world requires everyone to participate, and make the world a better place to live just by changing the place they live in. Sadly, not many people realise this. But I do, and I'd rather be an idealist hoping for a better tomorrow than a sad, moronic motherbanger thief (SMMT), pirating music.

And now, I will say it as clearly as possible:

Pirating equals theft BECAUSE you are unlawfully accessing information and materials you are not permitted to have, because you haven't bought the licence. Period.

You see, it's SMMTs like you that make this world a worse place to live in, and you excuse this fact by saying that you "recognize the world for what it is".

Idiot.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

What's stupid about it? That's the law of business and ultimately the world. If you can't control the market, the market will control you - as the market is currently controlling publishers/record companies due to their inability to adapt and use the internet to their advantage.
Just because the majority of people in developed countries are shielded from this reality (by existing off providing their services to others - ie. being employed by someone else), does not make it any less true.
There are sheep and there are sharks. Sharks run businesses and countries. Sheep work for sharks.

That would make you a sheep as well, wouldn't it?
A sheep who thinks stealing music will let him grow sharp teeth?

If something is illegal, and there is a good reason for it to be illegal, you shouldn't do it.
Even for someone amoral as yourself, there are consequences if you don't get caught.
The end result of exploiting a gap the way you endorse is almost invariably some sort of retribution.
If you keep commiting crimes because you can, the sharks you worship are going to crack down on your ability to commit crimes and make it so that you can't.
I don't enjoy the idea of my computer being monitored just because some cliched asshole couldn't pony up ten dollars for the latest Limp Bizkit release.
People who exploit filesharing are the ones who put it in danger, so that people like me who download maybe three tracks a year end up having to cope.
It's exactly the same as those retarded kids who try acting out GTA and ODing on heroin, that make it that much more difficult for people like me to simply buy a game and smoke a joint.
But yeah, we're sheeple.
Great work there.

You're totally corporate when it comes to the clothes, food, internet, furniture, whatever car your parents drive, etc. But at least you can fight the power on the internets.

Look, you're generally a smart person on these forums. I really think you should reconsider this stance. Take it from me, honestly, that you just sound painfully immature here.

 

[Solaris]

Mecha thinks repriV is a smart person on these forums?

Mecha we obviously disagree quite alot, I think the last few of repriVs posts are the best he's ever written.

Capitalism is a ruthless system ultimately ruled by corperations, they'll do whatever they can (even if it means going outside of the law, which is written in their favour anyway) to get out money. We work hours for our money, get paid an amount that isn't equal at all to the value of the work we did, then we buy things for twice as much money as they cost to produce so more profit can go to the fat cats, then we buy our music, where again most of the money go's to profits for mr.Sony or whoever.

You say Piracy is stealing, I would agree, but you know what? Stealing is not wrong. Everythings got a context, Corperations steal from us ever day, they steal our labour, and the money we get from our labour so they can have a 12th mansion. We don't owe these people **** all, if I could steal everything from large companys without getting caught, your damnright I would steal it, and I would encourage other people to do the same.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Simple question repiV: do you believe piracy should be illegal?

 

[Solaris]

Simple question repiV: do you believe piracy should be illegal?

I would answer yes, but it should also be freely distrubuted by the state.

 

[Tagaziel]

Piracy should be freely distributed by the state? *dies laughing*

Seriously though, music freely distributed by the state would kill the industry and artists, as with no incentive to work on the music (eg. income), there would be none.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Mecha thinks repriV is a smart person on these forums?

At the very least I haven't personally seen him say anything blatantly wrongheaded until today.

Capitalism is a ruthless system ultimately ruled by corperations [sic], they'll do whatever they can (even if it means going outside of the law, which is written in their favour anyway) to get out money. We work hours for our money, get paid an amount that isn't equal at all to the value of the work we did, then we buy things for twice as much money as they cost to produce so more profit can go to the fat cats, then we buy our music, where again most of the money go's to profits for mr.Sony or whoever.

Note the highlighted section there. You keep saying that in every post you make, and it's simply not true. People get paid for what they do, period. Some people aren't paid enough, like those given the minimum wage, but you can't honestly say that everyone in the world who isn't a CEO is massively underpaid. That's ludicrous.

It's like you're describing some kind of cartoon world. CDs are technically cheap to make, but the high cost generally goes to pay the shipping people, technicians and etc. who actually work there. If you start paying people more, it is inevitable that the price of the CD will also increase.
The reason CDs are already expensive as they are is that these workers are being paid enough as it is.
That big mean CEO is, at a maximum, making maybe half a cent per CD sold. Not ten dollars per!
Find me six people in the corporate music industry who are legitimately underpaid to the extent that it's worth whining over, and then you've got a legitimate point.

Otherwise, this is idiotic. You're running around declaring normal happy people oppressed because you imagine them to be that way. It's absurd.
How about you champion people who actually have legitimate complaints. because I can assure you that the guy who ships the latest discs to HMV is living comfortably.

And what massive crimes against humanity has Sony been involved with anyways? Besides that lame copy-protection fiasco, I can't think of any. The way you make it sound, it's like they're literal pirates sailing the seas to rape and pillage.
But get this:
Most corporations try extremely hard not to break laws, because lawsuits and fines aren't profitable!

That's groundbreaking stuff, I know. But keep with me here, because this is a kicker: losing money is not desirable.

You say Piracy is stealing, I would agree, but you know what? Stealing is not wrong.

Yes it is. That's why it's called "stealing" and not "confiscating".
Don't give me that bullshit about "stealing from Nazis is good" either. This isn't World War III.
These are human beings who, without breaking any laws, have made money.
If you don't think the laws are strict enough, talk to your local government representative.

Everythings [sic] got a context, Corperations [sic] steal from us ever [sic] day, they steal our labour, and the money we get from our labour so they can have a 12th mansion. We don't owe these people **** all, if I could steal everything from large companys without getting caught, your damnright [sic] I would steal it, and I would encourage other people to do the same.

Right, and then they jump in their money pits and swim around in the ocean of gold coins.
Come on.
You're not Robin Hood. The masses aren't being oppressed into starvation by a devious tyrant.
The law applies equally to everyone. The simple fact is that some people are more successful under those laws than you are. Boo-hoo.
Viper isn't completely wrong when he says that capitalism isn't a picnic. It's a world where those with skill succeed the most.
They're people who managed to earn money legally, just like you could be if you weren't, well, you.
That doesn't mean you should go around breaking laws like an asshole. That's sociopathic.
It means you follow the laws and do your best.

Taxes support the poorest amoung us by making social support programs availiable to everyone who needs them.
Now you can either elect people who will tax the rich, or you can shut up about it.
Resorting to theft makes you no better than any evil corperation [sic].
In most cases, it makes you worse.

Also, if you steal everything from a corporation, that would make you a corporation. Should we go out of our way to murder you for being an evil capitalist?
Call it a pre-emptive strike against stupidity.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I would answer yes, but it should also be freely distrubuted by the state.

If piracy were state-sanctioned, then you'd have the entire nation of Great Britain (where you live) basically commiting an act of war against every music-producing country on Earth.

See, this is why people ask you to shut up.

 

[repiV]

Well, thank you very much for your, oh so thoughtful, info.

Now, to the point. I'm not a clueless student and you are a frustrated moron. Period.

I am an idealist, and by no means crusader. What I do know is that I can make a difference by changing the world around me in small increments, one step at a time. It won't change the whole world, but it will change my surroundings for the better. Changing the world requires everyone to participate, and make the world a better place to live just by changing the place they live in. Sadly, not many people realise this. But I do, and I'd rather be an idealist hoping for a better tomorrow than a sad, moronic motherbanger thief (SMMT), pirating music.

You've just admitted to being a clueless student. That idealism will be sucked right out of you eventually - it might take 30 years, it might take as little as three. You can "hope for a better tomorrow" all you like, it won't accomplish a damn thing. And if you aren't accomplishing anything, all you're doing is wasting time.
Better to accept the world for what it is and live your life the best you can within that world.
Hell, I've thought a lot about going into politics...and maybe I will do that. In which case I will be in a position to "change the world" - though not nearly to the degree that you would imagine. Until then, I accept it for what it is and use it to my advantage instead of dreaming of something that doesn't exist.

And now, I will say it as clearly as possible:

Pirating equals theft BECAUSE you are unlawfully accessing information and materials you are not permitted to have, because you haven't bought the licence. Period.

You see, it's SMMTs like you that make this world a worse place to live in, and you excuse this fact by saying that you "recognize the world for what it is".

Idiot.

That's a really, really weak argument.
A prime indicator of your argument being so abysmally weak is that you have to resort to childish insults every other sentence - like the childish student you are, I suppose.

 

[repiV]

That would make you a sheep as well, wouldn't it?

Yes it would, but I don't have a problem with that. I'm content with being a sheep for now.

A sheep who thinks stealing music will let him grow sharp teeth?

Not really. Piracy is just the natural extension of capitalism. And in fighting piracy the carrot will always work better than the stick.
Hell, aren't record companies reporting record profits of late? "Killing the music industry" indeed. In any event, perhaps killing the music industry wouldn't be such a bad thing. It's full of trite, manufactured, dreadful acts.
Real talent does not need huge corporate empires to get noticed.

If something is illegal, and there is a good reason for it to be illegal, you shouldn't do it.
Even for someone amoral as yourself, there are consequences if you don't get caught.
The end result of exploiting a gap the way you endorse is almost invariably some sort of retribution.
If you keep commiting crimes because you can, the sharks you worship are going to crack down on your ability to commit crimes and make it so that you can't.
I don't enjoy the idea of my computer being monitored just because some cliched asshole couldn't pony up ten dollars for the latest Limp Bizkit release.
People who exploit filesharing are the ones who put it in danger, so that people like me who download maybe three tracks a year end up having to cope.
It's exactly the same as those retarded kids who try acting out GTA and ODing on heroin, that make it that much more difficult for people like me to simply buy a game and smoke a joint.
But yeah, we're sheeple.
Great work there.

You're totally corporate when it comes to the clothes, food, internet, furniture, whatever car your parents drive, etc. But at least you can fight the power on the internets.

Look, you're generally a smart person on these forums. I really think you should reconsider this stance. Take it from me, honestly, that you just sound painfully immature here.

Note that I've never said that it is right or wrong. I haven't voted, either. Business is an amoral thing - maybe it is immoral to pirate software, but many companies are equally immoral. Microsoft are bastards, and successful because of it. It's just that their bastardy is legal.
Whatever it takes to get ahead. I don't see why I shouldn't play the same game they do.
Plus, I have no respect for weakness. If a company stamps its feet and complains about piracy instead of pro-actively tackling the problem in cunning and ingenious ways (such as the Quake III example I mentioned earlier), I have no respect for them.
Incidentally, I buy all my games and DVDs now that I'm employed. But if someone else in the same situation wants to pirate them, who am I to argue?
Loyalty and morality in the corporate world is nothing more than a tool to win more business. Why should I display either of those characteristics towards businesses that don't care about anything but my money?

 

[repiV]

Simple question repiV: do you believe piracy should be illegal?

I really don't know.

 

[Sulkdodds]

If you say so. Personally, I think Mecha's right - taking information from me that I didn't give you permission to take is somewhat of a violation. Theft's not only illegal because it deprives people of their posessions, but because of the breaking of consent as well.

It's a world where those with skill succeed the most. They're people who managed to earn money legally, just like you could be if you weren't, well, you.

To be fair, some people have a lot of money because their parents had a lot of money (yes, perhaps they're in the minority. I was just saying!).

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It's full of trite, manufactured, dreadful acts.
Real talent does not need huge corporate empires to get noticed.

That's the same lame excuse Feendzy already tried. "Music is absolutely awful, so I should be allowed to shove my hands into those huge piles of shit."

Even assuming that "real talent" only comes from small companies, the smallest companies are the ones who are hurt the most by this nonsense.
For larger companies, the theft has the upside of acting as free advertisement in the same way FM radio is. That's most record companies support things like youtube, myspace and other free ways of accessing music. They're re-enforcing prexisting brand names.
When you're only selling a limited number of CDs in a small area, each one matters, and the limited scope of the sales makes the side-effect of international advertisement meaningless. It'd be like having a million-dollar ad for a Mom&Pop store during the superbowl.

Business is an amoral thing - maybe it is immoral to pirate software, but many companies are equally immoral. Microsoft are bastards, and successful because of it. It's just that their bastardy is legal.

Morality is, except in stupid cases, defined by legality: by and large, a negative emotional reaction to a situation is not a valid reason to destroy it.
Immorality comes from doing something that causes a real-world harm which exceeds the reason behind it.
It's defined in terms of logical thought.
All that bullshit about following your heart and fighting for what you believe in is utter nonsense. As solaris has proven, believing in a cause doesn't automatically make that cause the slightest bit intelligent or valid.
Microsoft is a rare case where, at least where OSes are concerned, they have massive demand and practically no competition.
But even then, it's fun to bemoan Microsoft when their poor beleaguered competition is a similarly massive corporation.
They should be taxed, obviously, but they aren't doing anything that provides a logical justification for this silly rebellion.

Whatever it takes to get ahead. I don't see why I shouldn't play the same game they do.

You aren't playing the same game. That's retarded. Microsoft and Sony aren't stealing from you. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from avoiding their products. You can't even legitimately claim to be fiercely profit-driven like they are because all you're stealing is luxury.
You're not Robin Hood either, so stop with the delusions of grandeur.
Why on Earth are you starting shit with these corporations?
The only result is that they are given more power, because, unlike them, you are blatantly in the wrong here. When people do legislate, they're going to legislate against you.
The end result of your "survival of the fittest" bullshit is that you aren't the fittest. You're picking a fight that you'll lose on the behalf all of us. Shut up and sit down.

Loyalty and morality in the corporate world is nothing more than a tool to win more business. Why should I display either of those characteristics towards businesses that don't care about anything but my money?

I'm not asking you to be loyal to companies. **** that.
We're dealing with society as a whole. Your private war against Big Music is only hurting the rest of us.
You know what it's like to share a good thing, only to have it ruined because some asshole comes in and exploits it?
The asshole on his cellphone in the theatre, the asshole who takes a piss in the pool.
You're that asshole.

It's not all about you.