Episode 2, TF2 & Portal - Expected Summer 2007

[Cole]

Xcession, do you realize that people hate EA not for them throwing around release dates but because there [in house] games suck BECAUSE THEY RUSH THEM.

Xcession, Valve owes us nothing. They never have to make another game. The community must and should accept when and what Valve gives them. If Valve rush there games then guess what? They will end up like EA, having a game coming out every year that is complete shit and buggy x 1000.

You have to understand that Valve must be let to do what they gotta do and release things when they have to release them. Otherwise there games will be buggier, worse, and you will no longer be a fan because of that. If the community "somehow forced them" to follow there original release date it would completely **** the game up?

Valve not giving good Release Dates? The game will get released when it is ready, that is the best release date you will get for every single game but the shitty and buggy ones(Buggy: See Gothic 3). Valve cannot predict bugs that come up. Valve cannot predict people getting sick at there company. Valve do not know how long it takes to add in a certain feature into there engine will take. This is because Valve tries to find the absolute best implementation and then optimizes them until the fastest one that does what they want is found. No one at Valve can predict how long adding an engine feature will take. So it's either no release dates, release dates that are 10 years away that end up being more like 1.5 years, or release dates that Valve give now.

To be honest I do not care what release dates they give because in the end the game will come out the same time.

 

[jondy]

Valve are resting on their laurels, knowing full well that the community will cut them slack with this latest delay.

Yeah... they're resting, rather than making the game. Definitely.

'Guys, I'm tired of our company earning a living... what say we take a holiday for an indeterminate amount of time? Our fans wont mind. I'll go fix the mohitos'

 

[Crushenator 500]

Yeah... they're resting, rather than making the game. Definitely.

'Guys, I'm tired of our company earning a living... what say we take a holiday for an indeterminate amount of time? Our fans wont mind. I'll go fix the mohitos'

hahaha

 

[theotherguy]

Those crazy valvians.

They should announce a date years ahead of their predicted schedule, so that when it finally comes out everyone will be pleasently suprised.

 

[XIII]

stupid valve

god damned liers..
lied about the hl2 AI and now thiss

 

[TheMastahC]

stupid valve

god damned liers..
lied about the hl2 AI and now thiss

I bet they are laughing right now.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

**** valve. Having to even pay for this crap is one thing but delaying it is yet another. I'm ****ing fed up with those lazy shits.

Uh-oh, I smell a retard nearby...:O

 

[el Chi]

I'm always surprised how cross people get about these delays.
It's. Only. A. Game.
It's rather unlikely that delays will be detrimental to the game - in fact, far from it. Valve f*cked up, yes. Valve are crap at sticking to the unrealistic targets they set themselves, yes. Valve also have yet to produce a bad game, so if a delay means the end products are better than if they'd been rushed, that's a good thing.
Oh and once more:
It's. Only. A. Game.

 

[Hypnosos]

It's. Only. A. Game.

No, you're wrong.
It's. A. Game. Developed. By. VALVe
Which makes it alot more then
Only. A. Game.

 

[bigburpco]

But. It. Is. Still. A. Freaking. Game.

 

[Hypnosos]

But. It. Is. Still. A. Freaking. Game.

Yes? I haven't stated anything else. Should I make an example of what I meant?

Games developed by VALVe > Games developed by any other developer

See?

 

[bigburpco]

El Chi's not comparing it to other games, you know.

You mean your life doesn't consist of anything but games? Oh noes, get to da choppa!

Surely you can do something while waiting for it to come out, at the very least.

 

[atakgrbl]

Wow, what an indignant bunch. Imagine if Valve totally changed engines & mod tools at their leisure. If you have any sort of hope of seeing a current mod actually getting polished, you'd best hope they stick with the episodic scheme for a good while - and ultimately be happy they're taking their good ol' time finishing these chapters off.

I guess you just can't see the forest for the stupid.

 

[99.vikram]

I bet they are laughing right now.

Valve hates YOU!!!

Seriously...if they delay the game, it's better than getting a shitty product in the end.
- - - - - - - - - -

COALslaw
**** valve. Having to even pay for this crap is one thing but delaying it is yet another. I'm ****ing fed up with those lazy shits.

OK, that's it. WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?! :frown:

Explain one freakin' reason why Valve is obliged to give you games for free! Half-life 2 was a full length, self-contained fifteen hour game. Episode One was a sequel, not a f'ing expansion. You say the episodes aren't coming fast enough? Here's a fun fact - Ep 1 took a fifth of the development time of HL2. I'd say that's pretty durned fast.

Valve could just have given us another Opposing Force and we would have lapped it up like hungry wolves. But they didn't. They gave us HDR, better character animations, new particle effects; even as we speak they are working on harnessing multiprocessors, adding motion blur, depth of field, IBR, cinematic physics, better dynamic shadows.....and you, sitting in your armchair, have the audacity to call their programmers lazy? As much as I hate some games, I still respect the effort and dedication that developers put into them.

Now, Episode Two is so completely different from HL2 in every way imaginable - from level design to enemies to story.
AND it includes two more full games (TF2 and Portal).

Please make it clear why Valve should give these games to you free of charge, or shut your f'ing trap. :flame:

EDIT:
Sorry about that rant, I meant no insult to anyone personally. But I meant every word I said regarding the "lazy devs" at Valve.

 

[Hypnosos]

El Chi's not comparing it to other games, you know.

I am. Or, I was.

You mean your life doesn't consist of anything but games? Oh noes, get to da choppa!

Surely you can do something while waiting for it to come out, at the very least.

Yes... I could do something else and I will be doing something else while waiting. It would have been nice to play it sooner then next summer though.

 

[Asknoone]

I'm always surprised how cross people get about these delays.
It's. Only. A. Game.
It's rather unlikely that delays will be detrimental to the game - in fact, far from it. Valve f*cked up, yes. Valve are crap at sticking to the unrealistic targets they set themselves, yes. Valve also have yet to produce a bad game, so if a delay means the end products are better than if they'd been rushed, that's a good thing.
Oh and once more:
It's. Only. A. Game.

Quoted for major ****ing truth.

 

[ZoFreX]

Why are people angry/disappointed? Did you honestly not think this might happen? Anyone who is remotely surprised is more retarded than whoever keeps setting these deadlines

 

[Cole]

Yes... I could do something else and I will be doing something else while waiting. It would have been nice to play it sooner then next summer though.

It would have nice to of played a shitter in-complete probably buggy game sooner than a great, complete, not buggy game later?
Science damn your logic!

 

[COALslaw]

The only thing you did there was show everyone how retarded you are.

I see what you did there. You decided to be a moron.

If you guys want to continue to get raped up the ass by game developers than by all means bend over. I've been less than impressed by anything they've had to offer the Half-Life 2 series and as a result I decided to show my distaste for them. Seriously though you guys let too much slide, ever since HL2 has been released they've pushed dates back and shoved advertisements for games down our throats through steam. I just wish Valve would be a little more loyal to the people who are keeping them in business. Theres alot wrong with this company if you just take a closer look.

 

[COALslaw]

Explain one freakin' reason why Valve is obliged to give you games for free!

**** that. I don't recall paying for DOD,CS, or TFC. Now I have to because some lazy shit needs more money to stuff in trunk of his mercedes.

Valve could just have given us another Opposing Force and we would have lapped it up like hungry wolves. But they didn't. They gave us HDR, better character animations, new particle effects;

WTF! That should have been in the final version of HL2! Instead they had to push the game out the door without all the features they were planning on putting in. Give me a break.

 

[Beerdude26]

WTF! That should have been in the final version of HL2! Instead they had to push the game out the door without all the features they were planning on putting in. Give me a break.

Oh wait! How about we put in DX10? Or just make our own DX11 and put that in! We'll be able to render photorealistic images at MILLIONS OF FPS!

Wait, make that MILLIONS OF SPF (Seconds Per Frame). :|

It's a dumb decision to incorporate something into a game that no one can take advantage of yet.

 

[COALslaw]

Clearly you guys are cool with shit you own owning you. Carry on.

 

[ZoFreX]

So developers don't need money except to shove in the trunk of their mercedes' now? Allowing a deadline for a product to slip without whinging like a bitch is being owned by my posessions? Frankly if I can shrug and get on with life at the announcement of a delay then I'm owned a lot less than the person who whinges like a bitch about it! You've come to this forum without any valid point and I think I speak for everyone with more than two brain cells when I say GTFO.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

**** that. I don't recall paying for DOD,CS, or TFC. Now I have to because some lazy shit needs more money to stuff in trunk of his mercedes.

You still don't have to pay for DoD, CS or TFC. They're all still free.

 

[Asknoone]

If you guys want to continue to get raped up the ass by game developers than by all means bend over. I've been less than impressed by anything they've had to offer the Half-Life 2 series and as a result I decided to show my distaste for them. Seriously though you guys let too much slide, ever since HL2 has been released they've pushed dates back and shoved advertisements for games down our throats through steam. I just wish Valve would be a little more loyal to the people who are keeping them in business. Theres alot wrong with this company if you just take a closer look.

Don't be silly. I mean really, lay off the crack. For my money, HL2 is the best game ever made, and Episode 1 is certainly up there with some of the top shooters on the market.
I do not care if they have pushed back dates - I'm sure your life is not so empty that you sit and wait for these games to come round. It is all about quality assurance; they don't make games to cram them into the Christmas schedule or to primarily rake in the cash. They develop games and it takes time- quality, takes time.

Valve are there for the community, more than any other company are. They offer fixes, they update the games and they concentrate more on user feedback than any other developer to date. What the **** has loyalty got to do with it? I'll tell you - nothing. Can't you wait? They aren't being lazy; they are simply perfecting the game. You'll get it in the end, so what is the problem?

There isn't one. The only thing I’m seeing wrong here is your absurd accusations.

 

[gweedodogg69]

I think you missed the part where I pointed out that adding more coders would increase the delay. Who knows, maybe so many people told them to hire more coders that's what they did, causing the delay?

So just have 1 coder.

 

[COALslaw]

You still don't have to pay for DoD, CS or TFC. They're all still free.

True enough, however I was talking about CSS, DODS TFC2 etc etc. I just don't feel that its right to make us start buying these things now out of the blue. How am I being weird for not wanting to buy something we haven't had to buy for years!

Don't be silly. I mean really, lay off the crack. For my money, HL2 is the best game ever made, and Episode 1 is certainly up there with some of the top shooters on the market.
I do not care if they have pushed back dates - I'm sure your life is not so empty that you sit and wait for these games to come round. It is all about quality assurance; they don't make games to cram them into the Christmas schedule or to primarily rake in the cash. They develop games and it takes time- quality, takes time.

Valve are there for the community, more than any other company are. They offer fixes, they update the games and they concentrate more on user feedback than any other developer to date. What the **** has loyalty got to do with it? I'll tell you - nothing. Can't you wait? They aren't being lazy; they are simply perfecting the game. You'll get it in the end, so what is the problem?

There isn't one. The only thing I’m seeing wrong here is your absurd accusations.

You do raise a few good points, however having a weekly message tell me that the newest game is coming out and its only 10.99$ doesn't interest me in the slightest. Yes they come out with updates for CS and the like, thats irrefutably cool. Probably the only redeemable quality of Valve and steam but it shouldn't be set up as an excuse for all the late games! Think about it for a second. Valve uses their little weekly message to keep that damn ember burning strong in it's fan base, little do they know that all the water they keep dunking on it (delays) is going to cause some people (me) to realize how crappy they actually are for dunking that water on the ember. Its going to take one hell of a weekly message to turn me back on their side again.

 

[COALslaw]

So developers don't need money except to shove in the trunk of their mercedes' now? Allowing a deadline for a product to slip without whinging like a bitch is being owned by my posessions? Frankly if I can shrug and get on with life at the announcement of a delay then I'm owned a lot less than the person who whinges like a bitch about it! You've come to this forum without any valid point and I think I speak for everyone with more than two brain cells when I say GTFO.

If your going to try and tell me off at least have the good grace to make a little sense. Your in forty different places at once.

 

[Cole]

Coal, how about this, Valve never gives a release date for a game again until it's Gold.
Would you be happy? Would you be happy if Valve released buggy ass games?

 

[COALslaw]

Coal, how about this, Valve never gives a release date for a game again until it's Gold.
Would you be happy? Would you be happy if Valve released buggy ass games?

I'd prefer them to stick to a release date and not push it back. Look, I just want these bastards to treat the consumer with as much care as possible.

 

[Cole]

I'd prefer them to stick to a release date and not push it back. Look, I just want these bastards to treat the consumer with as much care as possible.

Well see..they wont have any consumers left if there games are complete shit and they don't push them back. Hell if Valve started releasing horrible and buggy games... you'd probably be the first one to get mad at Valve and the first one to stop being one of there consumsers. Therefor according to them you are worth less than a consumer that would still support Valve and stick around in hopes that they'd release another great game.

Thats my opinion, if you disagree see the Disclamer.

 

[COALslaw]

Well see..they wont have any consumers left if there games are complete shit and they don't push them back. Hell if Valve started releasing horrible and buggy games... you'd probably be the first one to get mad at Valve and the first one to stop being one of there consumsers. Therefor according to them you are worth less than a consumer that would still support Valve and stick around in hopes that they'd release another great game.

Thats my opinion, if you disagree see the Disclamer.

Your missing the point. Of course nobody would buy games if they were buggy, I agree with that 100%, but as I stated I want them to keep a release date. Thats what this is all about, not buggy games.Keep this in mind, Is it so impossible for a game company to hold its promise that a game would be coming out at this date and it will work properly and have no malfunctions? when did it become ok for a game company to push its customers around? I hate it. Maybe I should get a way cool disclaimer for my signature so I can state my opinion freely without causing anguish amongst the board.

 

[TheMastahC]

Valve rarely gives release DATES. it's moreso someone asking in a interview about a different game, and at the end of the interview, they slip in "so, when it ___ coming out?" and they normaly just say "we're shooting for summer / winter / spring / fall... Then everyone posts that everywhere.

It's not like we've put money down yet for Episode 2, so for right now, I don't care.. if they started preloading where you could buy it before it came out, THEN pushed it back, I can see being mad.

 

[99.vikram]

It is impossible to give an accurate release date for a project as massive as a game, unless you are some kind of oracle.

Almost every major software release has had one delay at least. Valve is just an easy target to bash for most gamers.

 

[slashandburn]

The only thing I would wish for is that Valve does a staggered release for PC. Let us pre-buy hl2:e2 and get to play portal or tfc2, even though hl2:e2 isn't done, kind of like how we got to play cs:s before half-life 2 was released, even though it was a beta.

 

[Operational]

Warning: Incoming megapost.

You guys forgot about VALVe time.

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

That page is great. I love how Gabe himself has added to it.

...it would be nice if we could pre order the package and get TF2 or Portal now.

Lol that was my first thought too, it'll never happen though Valve wants the hype of releasing the 3 games on both PC and consoles at the same time.

A good coder hits their deadlines. This has more to do with what deadlines are set in the first place than speed of coding.

They should announce a date years ahead of their predicted schedule, so that when it finally comes out everyone will be pleasently suprised.

I read an interview with Gabe where he basically said if they didn't set deadlines they would never finish. So I guess for Valve publicly setting deadlines is a form of project management lol.

Why are people angry/disappointed? Did you honestly not think this might happen? Anyone who is remotely surprised is more retarded than whoever keeps setting these deadlines

I was hoping the delay to Q1 07 would be the only delay.

Clearly you guys are cool with shit you own owning you. Carry on.

Don't quote Fight Club to me, you're the one being owned by Episode 2 since most of us here are pretty relaxed about the delay compared to your "OMG my precious has been delayed - get it right valve:angry:".

True enough, however I was talking about CSS, DODS TFC2 etc etc. I just don't feel that its right to make us start buying these things now out of the blue. How am I being weird for not wanting to buy something we haven't had to buy for years!

erm the originals were mods made with peoples spare time, the new versions have had a lot more (and continuing) work done on them by comparison. The change from a free mod to professionally done game is just a natural evolution of popular mods - more effort is needed/being put into it thus it becomes their job thus they need to make money from it to pay the bills. Take Garry's Mod as an example of somebody doing this without going to Valve.


Other points.
I was really hyped when the gameplay videos came out - this announcement sapped my hype away ;(.
I would like to blame the console versions but we just don't know yet.
By the time it comes out now a lot more people will be able to take advantage of the multi-core support.
Last I heard Portal was pretty much done - does this delay mean they now have time to add to it?
As for the people who are saying "I'm not disappointed", quit it with the tough guy act - I know you're crying on the inside .

 

[99.vikram]

It's the console's fault. It's always the console's fault.

 

[Jintor]

Who else's fault could it be?

 

[Tamer17]

Will you guys get it? All the games aren't ready. Ep2 isn't finished , TF2 isn't done and Portal isn't sealed. They can't release portal or tf2 as a perck for those who pre-order Ep2 now because none of them is DONE.

Plus , it will damage all the 3 games in one package thing.

 

[xcession]

Whether ep2, tf2 and portal are all finished isn't the point. The fact is that by delaying all 3 until summer 07 strikes me as quite a risky strategy.

Creating 3 X hype for a set of games all coming at once is certainly a stroke of marketing genius, but does rely on those games coming when expected, since the disappointment is 3 X bigger too when delays occur.

Given that this is the 2nd delay so far, the 3-way-release strategy is looking more and more ricketty. I think the feeling is that Valve stand a better chance of keeping everyone sweet, by pooling their resources into a single game and releasing that before the others: thereby throwing some meat into the cage and making us even MORE ravenous, but temporarily happy - rather than keeping us starved and increasingly unhappy.

A 3-way-release is certainly going to help compete with the wealth of quite stunning games coming out in 07, but with every additional delay, there is always going to be a section of the public whos interests get hooked by other games released sooner and end up never getting the new valve games.