Ever taken drugs?

[Reaktor4]

caffeine is not illegal, it isn't part of learning how to obtain/use illegal drugs, it does not desensitse you to illegal drugs.

Is that a yes then?

why wouldnt anyone see that? alcohol is a legal drug, 'course more people are gonna be affected by it, doesnt mean alcohol is ok..

Alcohol causes that effect very frequently. If you dont think it should be made illegal but you support the prohibition of other drugs for the reason stated you are a hypocrite.

what about sitting on the couch all day eating doritos? thats withdrawal...?

No, thats what those people choose to do. Do you think thats a good reason for making people criminals and sending them to jail?
Just because someone does that means theyre dependant?

 

[The Terminator]

what about sitting on the couch all day eating doritos? thats withdrawal...?

Wow, are you even trying? Lots of people do that, and they never touched pot. Its called being fat. I smoke dope, and I hate doritos, so hah.

 

[blahblahblah]

Sigh.
First of you what youre saying here translates to "i have my anecdotal evidence and no matter what facts you show me i wont believe them".

Anecdotal evidence from a scientific study that probably will change its results 10 years from now? Perhaps you can restate your 100% solid facts and provide information about sample size, coorelations and other solid data.

What were the drugs?

All of the "typical" drugs and a bunch I have never ever heard before or can't even remember the names to.

Were the drugs clean?

Some yes, some no.

Were they administered properly?

Most of the "heavier" drugs were actually researched by those people listed above. They take that stuff rather seriously. It scared/startled me when I found out they researched some of those drugs.

Are you trying to say that cannabis is a gateway drug? Hey i bet they all drank coffee first. Caffeine must be a gateway drug.

Caffine has been thoroughly studied.

More importantly, caffeine is not perceived as the same class of substance as drugs. People must form an association in order for it to be tempted to try something else. Nobody says, I like coffee therefore I must like heroin. Even though they maybe have some similarities between the two substances, a person cannot create a correlation between the two unless a common association is formed.

Were these people hanging around dealers/other 'underworld' figures who could have influenced them?

Some yes, some no. There isn't as much of a coorelation as you think there is. I've seen the rainbow of drug usage with friends.

Have you ever seen anyone become a horrible person because of alcohol?

Yes

Whos asking you to support drugs?

If such legalization is passed, I'm leaving the country to avoid the economic effects of decreased productivity and medical related treatements. Furthermore, I don't want to see anymore people who are close to me venture down the wrong path.

Did these people educate themselves on how to properly use a drug and what its effects are before using them?

Some, but they didn't care about the effects.

Do you suggest comprehensive human studies should be done on drugs to show the dangers and effects on humans? Wait, you can't. That would be unethical since we know these drugs can/do cause harm.

Did they mix drugs?

AFAIK no. Then again, I wasn't there and I don't do drugs.

Is it possible that any of them had underlying mental conditions and quite possibly couldve turned out 'horrible' anyway?

Some of those people are/were incredibly intelligent.

Related to your point, since you are suggesting that drug usage may be a symptom of a mental condition, wouldn't that be a reason to assume that drugs should be illegal? After all, 1 in 5 people have a mental illness. That should be reason enough.

http://www.nmha.org/infoctr/factsheets/14.cfm

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

i dotn get how some people smoke so much weed...i know three guys that smoke a pound of weed in THREE DAYS!!! how do they do that

for a pound of weed it cost like 3 grand i think so they wasited aloot of money also

 

[The Terminator]

Anecdotal evidence from a scientific study that probably will change its results 10 years from now? Perhaps you can restate your 100% solid facts and provide information about sample size, coorelations and other solid data.

so you dont have any either...

All of the "typical" drugs and a bunch I have never ever heard before or can't even remember the names to.

so your memory is falible, you could be wrong.

Some yes, some no.

so its not a perfect study

Most of the "heavier" drugs were actually researched by those people listed above. They take that stuff rather seriously. It scared/startled me when I found out they researched some of those drugs.

why are you sacred of studying?

Caffine has been thoroughly studied.

More importantly, caffeine is not perceived as the same class of substance as drugs. People must form an association in order for it to be tempted to try something else. Nobody says, I like coffee therefore I must like heroin. Even though they maybe have some similarities between the two substances, a person cannot create a correlation between the two unless a common association is formed.

I like weed therefore I must like heroin, ya Ive said that. NOT. And I dont think most pot smokers would.

If such legalization is passed, I'm leaving the country to avoid the economic effects of decreased productivity and medical related treatements. Furthermore, I don't want to see anymore people who are close to me venture down the wrong path.

Did these people educate themselves on how to properly use a drug and what its effects are before using them?

Ok you preally think it would have that much of an effect that it would ruin your life so much that you would be forced to move not only from yuor city or town to a more no drugs city or town, but to anotehr country? Please.

Related to your point, since you are suggesting that drugs may be a symptom of a mental condition, wouldn't that be a reason to assume that drugs should be illegal? After all, 1 in 5 people have a mental illness. That should be reason enough.

He wasnt implying that anyway, quite the opposite.

 

[Reaktor4]

Anecdotal evidence from a scientific study that probably will change its results 10 years from now? Perhaps you can restate your 100% solid facts and provide information about sample size, coorelations and other solid data.

Ive already given it. Go and find it.

Most of the "heavier" drugs were actually researched by those people listed above. They take that stuff rather seriously. It scared/startled me when I found out they researched some of those drugs.

Understandable. I agree people should start taking drugs knowing little about them.

Caffine has been thoroughly studied.

More importantly, caffeine is not perceived as the same class of substance as drugs. People must form an association in order for it to be tempted to try something else. Nobody says, I like coffee therefore I must like heroin. Even though they maybe have some similarities between the two substances, a person cannot create a correlation between the two unless a common association is formed.

Is that a yes?

Some yes, some no. There isn't as much of a coorelation as you think there is. I've seen the rainbow of drug usage with friends.

How do you know what i think? Im just saying there are other factors here and that its not necessarily the fault of the drugs.

Yes



If such legalization is passed, I'm leaving the country to avoid the economic effects of decreased productivity and medical related treatements. Furthermore, I don't want to see anymore people who are close to me venture down the wrong path.

Alcohol is legal, better start packing your suitcase.

Some, but they didn't care about the effects.

That says a lot.

Do you suggest comprehensive human studies should be done on drugs to show the dangers and effects on humans? Wait, you can't. That would be unethical since we know these drugs can/do cause harm.

Everything is harmful under the right circumstances. Clinical trials have been and are done on people anyway.

Some of those people are/were incredibly intelligent.

Irrelevant. Intelligence doesnt stop people from becoming mentally ill.

Related to your point, since you are suggesting that drugs may be a symptom of a mental condition, wouldn't that be a reason to assume that drugs should be illegal?

No because not tolerating/making a drug illegal means more people use them.

 

[MadHatter]

Hey no worries man. It's been good talkin to you. By the way, since coming on tonight, prob for the last 3 hours debating, I have been completely stoned. Could you tell

Actually, no, I couldn't tell.... It's hard to sense things like that on the internet -- especially forums like these where most people look like they're high while typing but they're really not.

 

[Reaktor4]

He wasnt implying that anyway, quite the opposite.

Some mentally ill people use drugs such as cannabis to alleviate their symptoms. Usually this fact is twisted around to make it sound like the mental illness was caused by the drug taking, rather than the other way round.
If someone has undiscovered schizophrenia or w/e, its possible that certain drugs could accelerate the onset of the condition. But i dont believe that theyre the cause. Although many people claim cannabis causes schizophrenia, the amount of people with this condition is decreasing, while cannabis users are increasing suggesting there isnt much of a (if any) link. Also schizophrenia in particular is one illness that cannabis is known to be effective in helping with, which would help explain why so many sufferers use the drug.

 

[blahblahblah]

so you dont have any either...

Pick this a part then.

Here is an article backing up your point till they say that past studies were to small. If you learn about statistical analysis, it is rather easy to modify the scenario to alter the data to your liking. I'm currently trying to figure a way to handle that problem with a research project I'm doing right now (deals with accounting however).

As I am on a bit of a statistical analysis rant, it is impossible to have something proven 100%. I'm doing a fairly indepth project regarding financial fraud, bankruptcy and bankruptcy prediction models. One of my first steps is to learn about bankruptcy prediction models. Interstingly enough, one of the more popular models (multi-variate model for instance) has plenty of research to back it up. However, there is still a fair amount of research that calls the multi-variate model useless. Which is right? I will take my chances with the position that has the most research done. Not to mention that the arguments for multi-variate bankruptcy predictions tend to have the largest sample sizes, best controls, and other research techniques.

My point? One research journal article doesn't prove anything. Especially when it is cited and taken out of context. You have to look at the giant picture and carefully look at all of the information available. We didn't develop the idea that drugs are bad because we hate certain plants.

No because not tolerating/making a drug illegal means more people use them.

I disagree. The basic laws of supply and demand can easily back me up on that. Not to mention decreased costs would cause a demand shift as well.

I'm done, you aren't going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you. To say that drugs have no bad side effects is frankly wrong imo. Even when regulated they still can cause much harm. I'll end with that.

 

[burner69]

Yeah terminator. You must understand in the past week myself, reaktor (sp?), CPt Stern and others have written page after page of the same info to people such as urself. Most choose to ignore it. Please read this thread fully to get the links to government experiments done on cannabis and other drugs
If you don't trust us then use www.google.com
If you are logical you will change your mind.
If not, you won't be the first *sigh*

 

[Reaktor4]

We didn't develop the idea that drugs are bad because we hate certain plants.

Yeah, it was more to do with hating certain people.
http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm

I disagree. The basic laws of supply and demand can easily back me up on that.

But what is actually happening doesnt.

I'm done, you aren't going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you. To say that drugs have no bad side effects is frankly wrong imo.

We both know nobody is saying that, and you trying to make your argument easier by claiming that simply wont work.

Even when regulated they still can cause much harm. I'll end with that.

Yeah, much more harm than under prohibition

 

[burner69]

Thanks for taking the time to post us a link. You're the first anti-drugs person to do so.
Your first link told us of many bad things about cannabis but then passingly mention "those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the preceding 30 days" or "used it often". We have drawn the conclusion here several pages ago that the negative effects of weed only really become relevant if done often. Some thing I agree with.

As for the short term effects - you don't get stoned when you need to solve a puzzle (im j/kn - but it refers to the ability of one's logic of physical space, I believe)Neither do you do it before needing to use your reflexes etc etc etc . If you do you are irresponsible and stupid.

 

[burner69]

Also your first link is missing vital info:
"Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people"
I believe Reaktor could link you to some evidence that reveals the number of people subject to addiction. It's not very many, and is still controllable.

But I agree I would be stupid to dismiss your links outright, I am picking at their limitations.

Many other experiments/ surveys/ etc have had good evidence. Many have already been posted.

 

[Reaktor4]

Thanks for taking the time to post us a link. You're the first anti-drugs person to do so.
Your first link told us of many bad things about cannabis but then passingly mention "those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the preceding 30 days" or "used it often". We have drawn the conclusion here several pages ago that the negative effects of weed only really become relevant if done often. Some thing I agree with.

As for the short term effects - you don't get stoned when you need to solve a puzzle (im j/kn - but it refers to the ability of one's logic of physical space, I believe)Neither do you do it before needing to use your reflexes etc etc etc . If you do you are irresponsible and stupid.

Shame the link contains nothing but all the usual stuff.
Blah, you may also be interested in www.freevibe.com and www.health.org
Oh yeah, and www.drugprevent.demon.co.uk
All valuable sources of accurate information :thumbs:

 

[cronholio]

Used to smoke a bit when I was younger, until someone who I thought was a friend gave me a blunt laced with something that almost killed me.

 

[burner69]

That's well bad!
Can't believe a 'friend' would ever do that.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

smoked weed once.. wasent that exiciting.. havent since.

 

[Phisionary]

Yes. I'm on drugs right now. I won't say it's a good thing (doing drugs recreationally), but I don't think it's a bad thing neccisarily. The use of drugs is one of the many experiances one can enjoy during life. As long as it's risks are acceptable to you, it can be something valuable to make you a more complete person. It doesn't make you smarter or better, but a person is made up of the experiances they have gone through. I'm afraid I'll start to not make any sense right now, so I will leave the discussion till later. :E:E

 

[OCybrManO]

Ever taken non-prescription drugs?

Sure, I've taken tons of non-prescription (AKA "over the counter") drugs: Tylenol, Aspirin, NyQuil, Mylanta, Gas-X... oh... oh, you mean illegal drugs. :O

NOTE: This thread is 26 pages long... so don't bother saying someone already made that joke. I don't care.

 

[burner69]

Actually I think you're the first.
After showing that alcohol is more harmful than cannabis, that legalised heroin would have very few adverse effects other than addiction, explained how legalising any drug can only do good, talked about how people reported by the media dying of e actually die of a water overdose, I think it may have been around here... some one said

"Alcohols a drug"

That was classic/

 

[TheUnkillableDot]

I once shared a joint with other people, didn't feel a thing. My gf did, had a really bad trip after it... So since then a big nono for me and my wife

Trip? It's not even a hard drug...

Anyway, I drink (get wasted) usually every weekend, but I gave up the pot.

 

[Icarus]

I think drug use is more of a personal choice...
Personally I don't use any kind of illegal drug, but I don't think I have the right to decide what is or isn't harmful for someone to use on themselves

 

[Absinthe]

The only gateway effect that marijuana could possibly have shouldn't even be attributed to the plant itself.

Some people are just going to onto harder drugs any way. Weed is just what these people consider a first step. This is not due to marijuana. Chances are that these people always had an urge to do harder drugs.

There's also the exposure to other drugs, particularly due to illegal status. Go down town, buy some weed. But hey! This guy's also selling ecstasy and cocaine! Hmm... Maybe I should just buy some of this as well...

The gateway idea is bullshit.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5490&wtm_format=print
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/mjgate.htm

"If the creators of American drug policy are truly interested in reducing the risk of marijuana users using other drugs, they should take a closer look at Holland, where drug policy since the 1970s has been guided by a commitment to diminishing any potential gateway effect. Wanting to keep young marijuana users away from cocaine and other "hard drugs," the Dutch decided to separate the retail markets by allowing anyone 18 years of age or older to purchase marijuana openly in government-controlled "coffee shops" which strictly prohibit the use and sale of other drugs.

Despite easy availability, marijuana prevalence among 12 to 18 year olds in Holland is only 13.6 percent -- well below the 38 percent use-rate for American high school seniors. More Dutch teenagers use marijuana now than in the past; indeed, lifetime prevalence increased nearly three-fold between 1984 and 1992, from

4.8 to 13.6 percent. However, Dutch officials consider their policy a success because the increase in marijuana use has not been accompanied by an increase in the use of other drugs. For the last decade, the rate of cocaine use among Dutch youth has remained stable, with about .3 percent of 12-18 year olds reporting having used it in the past month."

blahblahblah, I'm sorry that you know people that got ****ed up after smoking pot. But it was most likely due to a problem on their part. Not the drug's.

 

[Jammydodger]

Good to see so many people with the right attitude towards drugs, Maybe 1 day every 1 will make up thier own mind up without listerning to the media and scaremungers.

 

[Foxtrot]

Good to see so many people with the right attitude towards drugs, Maybe 1 day every 1 will make up thier own mind up without listerning to the media and scaremungers.

I know what you mean, the media makes drugs seem like you will be a complete loser if you aren't addicted to them. But there is nothing I can do to not be a complete loser, so I don't care.

 

[CptStern]

I know what you mean, the media makes drugs seem like you will be a complete loser if you aren't addicted to them. But there is nothing I can do to not be a complete loser, so I don't care.

what? where? the media promotes drugs as "cool"? I dont think so, watch tv outside of the US you'll start to realise your airwaves are saturated with anti-drug messages.

 

[Foxtrot]

what? where? the media promotes drugs as "cool"? I dont think so, watch tv outside of the US you'll start to realise your airwaves are saturated with anti-drug messages.

There are anti-drug messages but no one takes them seriously, if you live in the US you would know.

 

[Absinthe]

what? where? the media promotes drugs as "cool"? I dont think so, watch tv outside of the US you'll start to realise your airwaves are saturated with anti-drug messages.

Oh yes. Good ol' guilt tripping.

*Show small child happily waving goodbye to his friends after a basketball game. He goes to sit by the curb.*

*Cut to later shots of him with the day getting darker.*

*Cut to a shot of him being very tired and looking all around him.*

*Cut to a close-up shot of child's face with a frown on it. Adult voice says:*

"Don't worry. I'm sure your little brother will understand you being late because you were getting stoned with your friends."

*Fade to black.*

*Show some text about a drug-free America blah blah blah blah blah...*

 

[CptStern]

There are anti-drug messages but no one takes them seriously, if you live in the US you would know.

I live an hour away from the US, I've been there quite often ...actually my wife is there right now shopping

EDIT: Absinthe: like this?

 

[Foxtrot]

I live an hour away from the US, I've been there quite often ...actually my wife is there right now shopping

Did you go to school there? That is really my only social contact, so I base everything I know about other peopl on school...and it seems like the favorite movies are drug related one even though they all suck.

 

[Reaktor4]

There are anti-drug messages but no one takes them seriously, if you live in the US you would know.

Quite a few people do believe the anti some drug bs actually.. just look at the results of this poll.

 

[Foxtrot]

Quite a few people do believe the anti some drug bs actually.. just look at the results of this poll.

Maybe it isn't BS? Maybe those people actually think that they don't need to pump their body full of foreign chemicals to be happy.

 

[Reaktor4]

Maybe it isn't BS?

Just about all of it is.

Maybe those people actually think that they don't need to pump their body full of foreign chemicals to be happy.

I doubt many people think that.

 

[CptStern]

Did you go to school there? That is really my only social contact, so I base everything I know about other peopl on school...and it seems like the favorite movies are drug related one even though they all suck.

so you're admitting to acquiring your knowledge through hearsay?

most drug movies are anti-drug movies. Watch anything by Cheech and Chong ..definately not anti-drug

 

[CptStern]

Maybe it isn't BS? Maybe those people actually think that they don't need to pump their body full of foreign chemicals to be happy.

you do that everyday second of the day just by breathing

 

[Foxtrot]

you do that everyday second of the day just by breathing

But I do it to get oxygen which my body needs, and I don't need to do it to be happy, just to live.

 

[Absinthe]

People derive happiness from a lot of things. Television, movies, sports, sex, video games, etc...

So why is it a problem when somebody derives happiness from a marijuana? Don't say health issues. I know it's not healthy. The problem is that many people bring that up as an argument. These same people then pick up a few cheeseburgers from McDonald's before driving home and plunking their asses down in front of the TV for a few hours.

Last I checked, people can die from that sort of daily routine. Nobody's died from pot so far.

 

[Foxtrot]

People derive happiness from a lot of things. Television, movies, sports, sex, video games, etc...

So why is it a problem when somebody derives happiness from a drug? Don't say health issues. I know it's not healthy. The problem is that many people bring that up as an argument. These same people then pick up a few cheeseburgers from McDonald's before plunking their asses down in front of the TV for a few hours.

That isn't healthy either, but drugs are a lot worse and can become addictive. So can food, but that is mostly related to depression(I am guessing so feel free to rip me apart for that). Also, McDonalds doesn't have any side affects really.

 

[Absinthe]

That isn't healthy either, but drugs are a lot worse and can become addictive. So can food, but that is mostly related to depression(I am guessing so feel free to rip me apart for that).

There is no physical addiction with marijuana. You can develop a psychological addiction, but you can develop that for practically any substance, so that's not really an argument either. Even then, psychological addiction is far less dangerous than a physical addiction, and it's also rare. It's been found that out of all the youth that have smoked pot, only a small percentage persist in using it. And we can't even attribute that persistence to addiction.

 

[DreamThrall]

Lets see... I've smoked a lot of weed... Got some funny stories about that... my friend and I spent the last summer before I enlisted smoking just about every day. Our goal for the summer was to design and make the bong that would f*ck you up the most. Our winner ended up being a contraption called "Happiness", which was made out of a 1-gallon gatorade bottle, 2 corncob pipes, some plastic 1-inch diameter tubing, a funnel, decorative yarn, and a car air freshener that we stole out of a convertible at the mall that says "happiness" and has the japanese symbol on it. The runner up was a hooka made out of one of those 5-gallon spring water jugs that I stole from the place I worked. It's a runner up because we never finished it, but it was such an awesome idea.

We used to play this game called "midnight golfer", which was pretty much an insult game... except the things you came up couldn't be actual insults... but you had to say them in such a way that they sounded insulting. It would start out with my friend saying "Dan, you're such a midnight golfer!", and I would say "yeah well you just kept on riding that lawnmower... and you would stop and just TURN IT RIGHT OVER!" and then we would go from there. It would be really funny when we would smoke with other people who'd never played it before and they'd get so lost because they were stoned and didn't know what the hell was going on.


anyways...

*cough*


/rant...