Farenheit 9/11 trailer now online

seinfeldrules said:
It led to 9/11 because it allowed countries like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, and Libya to continually fund terrorism without any recourse. Again, World War II could of been prevented if the world hadnt remained isolationist until the last minute. At least Bush, Blair, and the other members of the coalition arent willing to make the same mistake.
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Firstly: Iraq did not fund terrorism. There are no proven links between Iraq and terrorist organisations.

Secondly: You left Saudi Arabia off that list. Pretty big omission there.

Thirdly: You failed to note the countries that were selling nuclear weapon technology to so-called 'Rogue States'. Pakistan, Malaysia etc.

The part about them not having any recourse: what exactly do you mean by saying they had no alternative to funding terrorism?


Finally: there is never going to be an end to the war on terror until the motives for terrorism are properly addressed. You can't bomb people until they believe you!

(Though it's not the issue) I still believe a greater domestic view of terrorism would have stopped people hijacking those domestic flights in the USA.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Well Hitler was a big success. He must of had brains too.
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Well yeah, Hitler was probably quite smart. A most brilliant strategist if one is to believe the Discovery channel (and similar sources).


You don't need brains to make a documentary, his documentaries are nothing but worthless drivvle that show his views on the subject, not an unbiased view encompassing all views.
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Maybe it possible to make a documentary, even if you're stupid.

But Bowling for Columbine isn't just 'any' documentary, like I said it's the most successful documentary ever.


No matter how much you may dislike Michael Moore, I don't think you should believe he's stupid.


As a matter of fact, if you dislike him you'd be better of not underestimating him. :)
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
The commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER"

Killing a crazed psychopath who burst into your home in hopes of raping your wife and slitting your throat is not murder, it's self defense.

And, in Bowling for Columbine, the NRA meetings that occured on Colorado "right after Columbine" were already planned before the incident. None of it took place BECAUSE of Columbine.
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Moore didn't say it happened BECAUSE of Columbine. He just makes the point that it was pretty damn insensitive to go ahead with the meeting so soon after the shooting massacre.

How difficult can it be to rearrange/reschedule a meeting? Don't they have a conscience?
 
seinfeldrules said:
Oh god. This man is a moron (Moore). I bet he and Osama bunk out together on the weekends. Why shouldnt Congress send their sons and daughters to fight? They would lose their ability to objectively send any troops into battle then. He is putting his own insane agenda in front of the good of the country. Go Michael "Flower Power" Moore! :upstare:
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are you for real? what kind of knee-jerk reactionism brought you to make this statement:
"I bet he and Osama bunk out together on the weekends."

I'm so tired of some people's narrow minded view that anyone who is against the war in iraq is somehow supportive of terrorism

oh and there is something that you have little understanding of, it's called "cause and effect". The US supported terrorism a thousand times over but they called them "freedom fighters". Ask anyone from el salvador, Panama etc etc

how many congressmen's children are in iraq? I think this is covered in the movie...my guess is 0 %

also, please show me where saddam was funding terrorists to attack the US. If he was such a monster why did they support him? why when the UN wanted to try him for crimes against humanity (during the iraq-iran war) did the US veto the bill?
 
Sorze said:
Well yeah, Hitler was probably quite smart. A most brilliant strategist if one is to believe the Discovery channel (and similar sources).





Maybe it possible to make a documentary, even if you're stupid.

But Bowling for Columbine isn't just 'any' documentary, like I said it's the most successful documentary ever.


No matter how much you may dislike Michael Moore, I don't think you should believe he's stupid.


As a matter of fact, if you dislike him you'd be better of not underestimating him. :)
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I didn't mean he was stupid, just that you didn't need brains to make a documentary.

Some people might see Bowling For Columbine and think that it is 100% factual, when it isn't. It is just propaganda, nothing more. That is why i made the comparison between Bush and Moore, they both want to put their opinion out as fact and fool people into believing that they are the truth.

I will take any documentary by anyone and any comments by any politician as being something that should be looked more into, rather then just believing at face value. This is the whole point that Moore actually puts across in all that he does, don't always believe everything you are told and that it doesn't hurt to look deeper into stories.
 
seinfeldrules said:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread48820/pg1

http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110005133

I forgot a country, it was an innocent ommission. I meant that they could continue on the funding without any threat of retaliation from a Western power. Bush changed that. How about Libya dropping its nuclear program after Iraq was invaded?


And did they commit the murders? If not, why does it matter when they meeted?
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huh? the city of columbine was still reeling from those murders..if there were tougher gun laws it wouldnt have happened. In most countries these kind of shootings are extremely rare...in my lifetime it's happened once in my country
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
, in Bowling for Columbine, the NRA meetings that occured on Colorado "right after Columbine" were already planned before the incident. None of it took place BECAUSE of Columbine.
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Actually, I'd like to point out that its singular: meeting, not meetings. The rest of the events were canceled that day out of respect, and that meeting was a session for the members to vote which is required under law.
 
The US wants Iraqis to try him, not the UN. If you are saying he did not commit attrocities, then this conversation is over.

I went over why congressmen's children shouldnt be in Iraq.

The US supported Iraq in the 80s, but that was a different time with a different enemy. Sorry people 10 years ago didnt have crystal balls that read into the future. Im sure Kerry will find some before the election.

No, I support people who intelligently dont agree with the war in Iraq. Michael Moore is not one of those people. I think he would find France more receptive for a person like himself. Im equally, no, more tired of people calling Bush a moron like Moore has without any argument to back it up. His hatred for Bush has reached unreal levels.
 
btw Direwolf it's really been bugging me, I had to ask...where is your signature from it sounds so familiar...it's lyrics to a song right?
 
seinfeldrules said:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread48820/pg1

http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110005133

I forgot a country, it was an innocent ommission. I meant that they could continue on the funding without any threat of retaliation from a Western power. Bush changed that. How about Libya dropping its nuclear program after Iraq was invaded?


And did they commit the murders? If not, why does it matter when they meeted?
Click to expand...

That first link is pure conjecture. It includes a lot of 'supposeds' and so-called 'leaks'. Well, we saw how reliable those leaks can be, when the New York Times publicly states it followed leaks and didn't investigate them. That first link starts out with an unverified report from British Intelligence, then goes on to construct a 'probable' scenario with precious little facts.

The second link is a little better. However it also is not definitive proof. It states in the article that it may not be the same man.

And about the meeting, how can you be so callous? No, of COURSE they didn't commit the murders. But imagine your mum was deliberately run over and killed by a bikie. Then, a short time later, a large bikie gang wants to hold a huge meeting/rally very close to you. How would you feel?
 
seinfeldrules said:
The US wants Iraqis to try him, not the UN. If you are saying he did not commit attrocities, then this conversation is over.
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Why does the US want Iraqis to try him? What would that accomplish? And while we are on the subject: just what does the US have against International Law anyway?

seinfeldrules said:
No, I support people who intelligently dont agree with the war in Iraq. Michael Moore is not one of those people. I think he would find France more receptive for a person like himself. Im equally, no, more tired of people calling Bush a moron like Moore has without any argument to back it up. His hatred for Bush has reached unreal levels.
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So you are saying that France is incapable of intelligently disagreeing with the war?
 
Why would the Iraqis want to try him? I wonder why. Maybe it has to do with the fact he killed millions of them in cold, unjustified blood. That might be a possible scenario...
 
seinfeldrules said:
Why would the Iraqis want to try him? I wonder why. Maybe it has to do with the fact he killed millions of them in cold, unjustified blood. That might be a possible scenario...
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First - you haven't addressed my post about your links.

Second - You misread my question. I didn't ask why the Iraqis want to try him. I asked why does the US want the Iraqis to try him?
 
Because we know what they suffered through. Isnt it the humane and compassionate thing to do?

I think we agree on the links. Everything is opinion regarding Iraq and terrorism. I was simply posting the opposing opinion.
 
Direwolf said:
*Starts feeling a downward slide.*
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*climbs to the top of the slide*. Ahem. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Anyway, I'd like to see the film. But, I believe any sensible person wouldn't take everything in the film as the straight truth. I consider myself fairly liberal, but even so, I like to take a second look at everything Michael Moore says.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Because we know what they suffered through. Isnt it the humane and compassionate thing to do?

I think we agree on the links. Everything is opinion regarding Iraq and terrorism. I was simply posting the opposing opinion.
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So war criminals shouldn't be put on trial by an impartial party. They should be tried in the country they committed those crimes?

There's not a good track record to back that up.
 
Yes, they should. It would be like trying Timothy McVeigh in Austraillia. It makes no sense to move the trial and is NOT fair at ALL to the millions of families who live without their loved ones day after day
 
seinfeldrules said:
Yes, they should. It would be like trying Timothy McVeigh in Austraillia. It makes no sense to move the trial and is NOT fair at ALL to the millions of families who live without their loved ones day after day
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But why start doing it now, of all times?
 
mchammer75040 said:
Bush is a f*cking idiot, if it is released maybe itll help keep him from getting re-elected.
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I seriously doubt it :(, but we live in hope
 
CptStern said:
btw Direwolf it's really been bugging me, I had to ask...where is your signature from it sounds so familiar...it's lyrics to a song right?
Click to expand...
It's a quote from an old Beck song..."Loser" Great stuff. :D
While I guess it was the result of the misunderstanding there is some excellent reasons that the US wants to try Saddam in Iraq. The country's judicial system has long been a joke, mostly just serving as an excuse to issue the verdicts that others have dictated.
Having Saddam tried through the new system is a show of the confidence we have in it, and is a great example for the country that due process is now in place.
 
Direwolf said:
It's a quote from an old Beck song..."Loser" Great stuff. :D
While I guess it was the result of the misunderstanding there is some excellent reasons that the US wants to try Saddam in Iraq. The country's judicial system has long been a joke, mostly just serving as an excuse to issue the verdicts that others have dictated.
Having Saddam tried through the new system is a show of the confidence we have in it, and is a great example for the country that due process is now in place.
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Yay! Now only their governmental system is a joke!

Seriously, who expects the US to intervene ala Panama if the Iraqi government does anything not in the US interests. The Iraqis have freedom alright - the freedom of a dog on a leash.

They can do whatever they like - as long as it doesn't go against the will of the US.
 
a lot of what michael moore says is retarded, just like the fat man himself. i quick example is in Bowling FC he goes to a bank and gets a gun, which is bullshit. you cant go anywhere and just get a gun. i believe we have mandatory background checks etc. hes just so radical that its impossible to make out anything coherant in what he says. hes a hypocritical bastard that applauds the "average" american life.. though the rich piece of shit sends his daughter to one of the best private schools int he nation. i find it insulting that, even more so than bush he just leads all the ultra left wing socialist...bitches.. hanging off of all his rhetoric. hes trash, throw that shit out of here.

http://www.corporatecrime.org/media.htm# also look at the 1st video of him at the oscars, enough said right there.
 
ghost I love that. What a fool. The mosh pit one is especially funny.

Moore: Come on Mr. Bush go in the mosh pit
Bush: Behave yourself will ya, go find real work

LOL great burn Mr. President. Moore then trys to make a funny clip after the incredible burn, but fails miserably.
 
What does Bush know about real work? Have they said they were going to allow this to be released in America? Kind of sad really if they don't, you know land of the free and what not.
 
Of course it will be released in America, I don't think it breaks any rules or regulations. And Bush does do real work, he went to college. And (if you didn't know) he is the President, but I am sure that is just a real easy job where you sit around all day doing nothing.
 
Ooh he went to college!!!!!!1one
First of all, he made C's and D's in college, that daddy paid for, secondly he has taken more vacation days during his presidency than any other president in the history of this country. Yeah, he is busting his ass.
 
Innervision961 said:
Ooh he went to college!!!!!!1one
First of all, he made C's and D's in college, that daddy paid for, secondly he has taken more vacation days during his presidency than any other president in the history of this country. Yeah, he is busting his ass.
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I like how fact based your reply is, and how many reliabe sources you have provided. Thank you for you productive and insightful response.
 
Um it is fact based, do your own checking... And no thank you! Unless of course your one of those hard workers your talking about, otherwise i'll have to go find links for you myself then.
 
Oh, so everything you said isn't true at all, thanks for clearing that up.
 
Uh how did you come to that conclusion? What I said was true, I said do your own fact checking as I do not have time myself to get the links for you. Funny as it is, I have to go to work (3rd shift sucks)...Of course if I was president, i'd just go ahead and take the whole month off...
 
http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html
Here are the grades

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html
Here are the vacation days... Geez must be hard! /sarcasm
Wish I could have that much time off. Of course sitting at a desk listening to
others make decisions for you must be tough. You know the jobs I do don't even compare, like melting metals in extremly hot temperatures for 12 hours a day, or working on 3rd shift assembly lines, never coming close to his income mind you, doesn't even compare...

(edit: can't debate anymore gotta get ready for work)
 
Innervision961 said:
http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html
Here are the grades

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html
Here are the vacation days... Geez must be hard! /sarcasm
Wish I could have that much time off. Of course sitting at a desk listening to
others make decisions for you must be tough. You know the jobs I do don't even compare, like melting metals in extremly hot temperatures for 12 hours a day, or working on 3rd shift assembly lines, never coming close to his income mind you, doesn't even compare...

(edit: can't debate anymore gotta get ready for work)
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Hey innervision did you go to Yale or Harvard? I would like to see you get some good grades there.
 
since we're talkin about grades here...

At least Bush made it through university. Al Gore flunked out of Harvard and Vanderbilt divinity school. Divinity school!!! Gore failed God!!
 
If you think the President does nothing but sit all day and listen to people you are probably correct. It is the life and death decisions he must make that get to you. If you honestly think that his 'vacations' are 'normal' vacations, then all the more power to you. While in Air Force 1 he is able to work, while at Crawford, he can work, while at Camp David, he can work. I doubt this President, or any other, has ever taken a true day off. Finally, good point Kidrock, I like it how you question Bush on his college grades when you have no idea how difficult it is to attend Yale.
 
seinfeldrules said:
ghost I love that. What a fool. The mosh pit one is especially funny.

Moore: Come on Mr. Bush go in the mosh pit
Bush: Behave yourself will ya, go find real work

LOL great burn Mr. President. Moore then trys to make a funny clip after the incredible burn, but fails miserably.
Click to expand...


:rolling: :eek:
 
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