for you who want Adrian or 7-hour war. (Spoilers)

[Jandor]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72731

Sticky this thread.

It's ironic, Pai-Mai starts getting annoyed that no one recognizes his theory, Dissapears from HL2.net (I havn't seen him) and then people start changing there mind.

 

[Asknoone]

Sticky this thread.

It's ironic, Pai-Mai starts getting annoyed that no one recognizes his theory, Dissapears from HL2.net (I havn't seen him) and then people start changing there mind.

If that is why he left, then he should stop bieng stupid. Its his theory, and thats nice but if people don't think its any good then thats no call to leave :|

 

[mcfadz]

The only real way I can see the 7 hours war working, is if you changed the gameplay experience completely.
Make the player a soldier, and give him a squad to command.
Put some tactics into the gameplay.
Otherwise, it would probably just be... *yawn*
more running around on your own destroying everything single handed.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

So, dispite the fact the Nihilanth has had surgical work done on him, not to mention machinery added to him

So, only the Combine know how to stitch things together? You don't think that any other race can use a needle and scalpel? Look at our own culture - even WE surgically alter our people, and add metal parts to things (albeit in not as obvious a way, because, as a species, we are really vain).

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Noobulon]

And then when you're in a cinema, or a supermarket, or even a street, the portals start. People flee in terror, perhaps doors seal themselves as a confused security system kicks in, you're left to fend for yourself amongst the chaos, and just as you emerge from the theatre/mall/office block all hell breaks lose as actual combat units begin to appear...

Well, I think it'd be great.

THIS IDEA F**KING PWNS

Why can't you guys see the awesomeness? :bounce:

 

[Angry Lawyer]

That's actually kinda cool. Although a little cliche'd - seems reminiscent of HL1's beginning.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Jandor]

If that is why he left, then he should stop bieng stupid. Its his theory, and thats nice but if people don't think its any good then thats no call to leave

I dont know why he left . I just thought it was really coincedental.

 

[Asknoone]

Hehe, I think so too.

 

[FRESCO_SUPREME]

THIS IDEA F**KING PWNS

Why can't you guys see the awesomeness? :bounce:

i second that

 

[ríomhaire]

The 7-hour war could only be you as a BM scientist or a soldier in action. Ordinary people don't have a HEV / PCV lying around the cinema so that idea is gone. I never realy liked the idea of BS giving you only body-armour and a magic HUD.

 

[pomegranate]

I think it's pretty obvious that Nihlanth's teleportation was a natural ability, not technology. As in, the-teleportation-spheres-come-out-of-his-head-duh-duh.

But I do see the contradiction of the portal storms after him dieing. Maybe all of the portal storms happened before Gordon killed him? Half-Life took place over two-three days, maybe time runs slower on Xen?
Ultimately, we don't actually know enough to be able to write off any theories, especialy not with the kind of nastiness demonstrated in this thread.
I think there is more evidence for the Combine-conquering-Xen theory than there is against it. Just 'cos you don't like it is a poor reason to diss it (that's not addressed to anyone in particular). I think it's just a pretty neat idea myself and haven't seen any better suggestions yet.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

So, only the Combine know how to stitch things together? You don't think that any other race can use a needle and scalpel? Look at our own culture - even WE surgically alter our people, and add metal parts to things (albeit in not as obvious a way, because, as a species, we are really vain).

-Angry Lawyer

It fits the Combine's MO. It fits it extremly well, I might add. Like I said, why go around assuming that it's some other power we have yet to see when we already have a VERY obvious suspect who specificly go from world to world and enslave the population, and who would probably have discovered Xen quite early on in their their exploration of the various dimensions. If we later get evidence that disagree's with that assumption, then we'll have to rework the theory of course, but such evidence has yet to present itself.

Right now, all signs point to the Combine.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I think it's pretty obvious that Nihlanth's teleportation was a natural ability, not technology. As in, the-teleportation-spheres-come-out-of-his-head-duh-duh.

But I do see the contradiction of the portal storms after him dieing. Maybe all of the portal storms happened before Gordon killed him? Half-Life took place over two-three days, maybe time runs slower on Xen?

Well, lets look at what causes the portal storms in the first place. A crystal sample was pushed into the anti-mass spectometer. This caused the resonance cascade that created a rift between our world and Xen, and started the first of the portal storms. Later, Doctors Keller, Green and Cross managed to used an array of similar crystals to seal the rift, but by that time the accidental teleportation of Xen wildlife had turned into (what appeared to me at least) the puposeful teleportation of a Xen invasion. It was later said that there was a portal in Xen that was being created by the intense concentration of a single powerful being.

Now, as an aside, you might be wondering why the hell would the Nihilanth give two bags of Vortigaunt droppings about Earth, especially enough of a damn to persue an invasion? My guess is the Nihilanth wasn't too happy at Earth when they started showing up an stealing live specimines, and especially stealing that crystal.

Anywho, the crystal brings me to my last point. A long time ago, shortly after HL was released, Mark Laidlaw did an interview where he was asked about what elements of the story he didn't feel were protrayed as well as he liked. This is what he said.

there were a few story threads we didn’t introduce early enough, and others we didn’t follow through on. That crystal sample in the opening, for instance, should have been clearly echoed in the Nihilanth’s chamber—and even down inside its gaping cranium. That was the plan. But we ran out of time to make the clear visual association.

Source: http://www.loonygames.com/content/1.34/feat/index2.php

I submit that the extremly pure sample, which caused the resonance cascade, is also one of the reason for the Nihilanth to attack earth once he realized where the theives of the crystal were (and possibly to retrieve the crystal)

Anywho, back to the topic at hand. We know what created the initial portal storm (the crystal sample), what stopped it (an array of similar crystals), and what continued the invasion (the Nihilanth, who has a huge crystal in his noggin). To stop the invasion, Gordon killed the Nihilanth by pounding on it's head as hard as possible, resulting in the Nihilanth's death and him to spazz out and start randomly generating energy beams and whatnot. I propose that this caused a similar effect of the resonance cascade, only to a greater degree do to the Nihilanths massive power. Boom; widespread portal storms that no little array of crystals can stop. Cue the moving into cities and abandoning of rural areas, and then the 7 hour war.

 

[pomegranate]

^ Great ideas. Extra points for 'spazz out'.

 

[Jandor]

There where no Combine on Xen at the time of Half Life 1. They hadn't been thought up then and Valve gave no clear indication that the Combine were in control of Xen at the time of Half Life 1, in Half Life 2.

Just look at Earth, Look at the Stalkers, look at the heavy mechanical augmentation of the Humans. Then look at the Vortigaunts, they have a collar on.
Humans have there limbs hacked off, there brain functions severed and lasers fitted to them. Vortigaunts have a collar placed on them.

Why go so far on Humans yet do basically bugger all to the Vortigaunts?

not to mention the fact of the heavily natural look to Xen and the incredibly mechanised feel to everything Combine on Earth.
The fact that the Controllers have no shackles on them.
The fact that everyone assumes the Combine on Xen theory to be true because of a fancy site by a Half Life fan.

I think it's just a pretty neat idea myself and haven't seen any better suggestions yet.

Have you tried looking?

 

[pomegranate]

I haven't tried looking 'cos I'm not that bothered, what I mean is that haven't seen anything better on here, tho I check out these forums extensively most days... Care to point me, or give your ideas?

That 'fancy site' has had some approval from Marc Laidlaw...

Jandor, there's no Combine on Earth in HL2.
Agreed, there is no clear indication that the Combine were on Xen. If there were we wouldn't have this debate. But if the Combine weren't somehow in control of Xen, why else did the Vortigaunts have the collar and shackle things on in HL1, but not HL2? Why were they hostile to humans in HL1, but not in HL2? Why did they join the humans to fight the Combine occupation?
The visible differences between Vort enslavement and human enslavement don't really mean anything, we don't know what the collars actually did or how they worked, and we don't know anything about Vortigaunt physiology - so we can't compare how you might control them. Besides, not all humans were altered as drastically as the stalkers - the metrocops and soldiers were apparently still mostly human, if a bit pale ( ). They still spoke and could understand speech (e.g. the Overwatch announcement system/Breen's speech to the Overwatch).

Something else has occured to me - doesn't the Vortigaunt sweeping up the railway station at the start wear a collar, or at least the shackles? Wouldn't that prove it to any of you doubters?
My computer's too slow, and it's too late, for me to be bothered to check.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

There where no Combine on Xen at the time of Half Life 1. They hadn't been thought up then and Valve gave no clear indication that the Combine were in control of Xen at the time of Half Life 1, in Half Life 2.

Now you'rer just making an assumption you can't possibly back up without talking to Valve. While they may not have fleshed out the Combine in any depth, it's obvious they wanted to present the Nihilanth as being subjugated by some force. Even if they started out entirely as a single-lined "Some cybernetic race of enslavers" quote on a piece of Laidlaw's notebook paper, that would still make them have existed since HL1. We can't know either way, so the point is moot.

Plus, there was a LOT in Half-Life 2 that wasn't addressed (Right down to important bits of backstory)

Just look at Earth, Look at the Stalkers, look at the heavy mechanical augmentation of the Humans. Then look at the Vortigaunts, they have a collar on.
Humans have there limbs hacked off, there brain functions severed and lasers fitted to them. Vortigaunts have a collar placed on them.

Why go so far on Humans yet do basically bugger all to the Vortigaunts?

Because the Vortigaunts are a hive-minded race and all the Combine really had to do is hack up the Nihilanth (Who was most certainly just as messed up as the Stalkers) and boom, they've got access to the Vortigaunts as well; Slap shock collars on the 'gaunts just in case they every fall out of range of the Nihilanth.

not to mention the fact of the heavily natural look to Xen and the incredibly mechanised feel to everything Combine on Earth.

How is this relevent? Unlike humans; the Vortigaunts don't need tons of augmentation to ensure their loyalty. After taking control of the Nihilanth, the Combine probably would have moved on long ago. Xen isn't exactly hospitible after all, and it didn't look like there was very many places that would support a citidel very well. They had total control of the Nihilanth; let the slaves do the hard work of maintaining the borderworld. It's not like some guy is going to run in and kill the Nihilanth single handedly, right?

The fact that the Controllers have no shackles on them.

I always thought the thing in their head looked very mechanical, as well as implanted. But beyond that, why assume that the Controllers were controlling the Nihilanth? It always appeared to me that they were spreading the Nihilanth telepathic influence to Vortigaunts and Grunts.

The fact that everyone assumes the Combine on Xen theory to be true because of a fancy site by a Half Life fan.

And now you're just trying to piss people off by calling them followers. Fail. How would you like it if I said that everyone who tries to discredit the theory is just looking for attention and being different for different's sake?

The possibility of the connection became obvious to me when the Vortigaunt started talking about the lesser and greater masters and it meshed with the Slaves comment from the original Nihilanth. Not to mention it explains why the Nihilanth looks he was seriously altered, surgically, and has cybernetic implants (Seriously, look at him, his lower torso is a giant machine) and even meshes with how the Nihilanth bears a similar appearance in skin tone to the Combine Advisor. It also explains why the Vortigaunts on Earth who are under the combine's control were wearing their old slave collars.

 

[Laivasse]

Something else has occured to me - doesn't the Vortigaunt sweeping up the railway station at the start wear a collar, or at least the shackles? Wouldn't that prove it to any of you doubters?

I'm just wondering what on earth that's supposed to prove... If I use a collar on my dog, am I part of the Combine?

Now you'rer just making an assumption you can't possibly back up without talking to Valve. While they may not have fleshed out the Combine in any depth, it's obvious they wanted to present the Nihilanth as being subjugated by some force. Even if they started out entirely as a single-lined "Some cybernetic race of enslavers" quote on a piece of Laidlaw's notebook paper, that would still make them have existed since HL1. We can't know either way, so the point is moot.

Not moot - if Valve had wanted to imply a retroactive link between the Combine and Xen, they would have left devices to doing so in HL2. The vortigaunt quotes are far too obscure and open to interpretation to base your view upon, in light of all the things that suggest the Combine don't even know about Xen's existence. Just the fact that there's are 2 bad guys doesn't mean that they are necessarily linked to eachother.

not to mention the fact of the heavily natural look to Xen and the incredibly mechanised feel to everything Combine on Earth.

How is this relevent? Unlike humans; the Vortigaunts don't need tons of augmentation to ensure their loyalty. After taking control of the Nihilanth, the Combine probably would have moved on long ago. Xen isn't exactly hospitible after all, and it didn't look like there was very many places that would support a citidel very well. They had total control of the Nihilanth; let the slaves do the hard work of maintaining the borderworld.

It's entirely relevant and it suggests very strongly that Valve wanted to draw a distinct line between the enemies you face in each game. In one you face lifeforms where everything has some sort of biological connection...even the bits of the planet that gate over to earth seem to be almost like living tissue. In the next, everything about them is somewhat mechanical. Metal walls, that are somehow still alive and swallow stuff. There is a clear difference in concept.

Furthermore, from what we see of the Combine in HL2, they don't "move on", and just let a planet carry on ticking by. The human race is due for extinction under the Combine, and we're being assimilated into their front lines in a number of ways - yet they are supposed to have turned up on Xen and then shot on by without ANY gain whatsoever, apart from pride, or something? No Xen technology used in Earth's conquest, no Xen aliens in Combine forces, they can't use Xen to teleport, and they left nothing lasting on Xen...so what was the point?

The fact that everyone assumes the Combine on Xen theory to be true because of a fancy site by a Half Life fan.

And now you're just trying to piss people off by calling them followers. Fail.

Still when people turn up here looking for the backstory, among the first few replies they'll get is a link to that site, saying "here's the story" - "RTFM" if you will. "Fail" yourself. Get over your pride and accept the fact that most people are willing to accept the first thing they read as Gospel. The awkward ones are those unwilling to weigh up the evidence objectively.

The possibility of the connection became obvious to me when the Vortigaunt started talking about the lesser and greater masters and it meshed with the Slaves comment from the original Nihilanth. Not to mention it explains why the Nihilanth looks he was seriously altered, surgically, and has cybernetic implants (Seriously, look at him, his lower torso is a giant machine) and even meshes with how the Nihilanth bears a similar appearance in skin tone to the Combine Advisor. It also explains why the Vortigaunts on Earth who are under the combine's control were wearing their old slave collars.

Well, that pretty much sums up the entire Combine on Xen argument. 2 hazily worded quotes and some modifications to the Nihilanth which could have been performed by anyone - could even just be there to look cool. The skin tone thing is really scraping the barrel...you'll discount the aesthetic difference between Xen and the Combine on Earth, yet you'll try and draw a link between Nihilanth and the advisor based on some kind of off-beige skin? Are you suggesting they are the same race...?

Also, the shackles on the vorts in HL2 are NOT the same, someone checked it out. They're a different colour, there's more of them, and in HL2 the collars have a little hoop at the top (for a chain, poss...?)

 

[r2000]

My opinion

Combine->Combine Advisor->Nihilanth->Voritguant Mutations (grunts, controllers, garg?)->Vortiguants

Simply because the railway and Nova Prospekt vorts are shackled up the same way. And they look like the HL1 vorts. Remember, computers looked crappy at the time. Finer details may have been hard to tell.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I'm just wondering what on earth that's supposed to prove... If I use a collar on my dog, am I part of the Combine?

Depends; did the dog's race collectively remove their collars after being freed, and only the ones that are still subjugated wear them? One’s that look remarkable like the old ones?

Not moot - if Valve had wanted to imply a retroactive link between the Combine and Xen, they would have left devices to doing so in HL2. The vortigaunt quotes are far too obscure and open to interpretation to base your view upon, in light of all the things that suggest the Combine don't even know about Xen's existence. Just the fact that there's are 2 bad guys doesn't mean that they are necessarily linked to eachother.

Actually, it IS moot, because as I've said before, there's a ton of stuff that HL2 only slightly implies and never gets across (One of the games few flaws, IMO.) You wouldn't have any proof that the Stalkers were at one point normal humans (or even human at all) if you didn't read the strategy guide or Raising the Bar. Looking at what we know: We KNOW the Vortiguants were enslaved. We KNOW the Combine go from dimension to dimension enslaving the races they find useful. We KNOW the Combine like to use cybernetics and we KNOW the Nihilanth was surgically altered with cybernetics. We can either make the easy assumption and link the two races, or we ignore the easy link and come up with even more elaborate and convoluted explanations.

It's entirely relevant and it suggests very strongly that Valve wanted to draw a distinct line between the enemies you face in each game. In one you face lifeforms where everything has some sort of biological connection...even the bits of the planet that gate over to earth seem to be almost like living tissue. In the next, everything about them is somewhat mechanical. Metal walls, that are somehow still alive and swallow stuff. There is a clear difference in concept.

But how is that relevent? Combine controlling Xen does not mean that Xen is going to be exactly like the Combine. I don't see why you think it would have to be otherwise. Combine show up, fight a battle(maybe not even that, the Vorts might have been tricked into subjugation for all we know, or just plainly didn’t know about it until it was too late), engineer/modify the Nihilanth to take control of the hivemind, incorporate any technology worth incorporating (Since the Xen race's technology is mostly organic, it was most likely used to augment the Combine's synth technology, if anything.) and move on to the next world. Xen is incredibly inhospitable which makes it pretty useless for colonization (Unlike Earth, which is a large stable landmass instead of a bunch of tiny floating islands. )

Furthermore, from what we see of the Combine in HL2, they don't "move on", and just let a planet carry on ticking by. The human race is due for extinction under the Combine, and we're being assimilated into their front lines in a number of ways –yet they are supposed to have turned up on Xen and then shot on by without ANY gain whatsoever, apart from pride, or something? No Xen technology used in Earth's conquest, no Xen aliens in Combine forces, they can't use Xen to teleport, and they left nothing lasting on Xen...so what was the point?

You misunderstood me, I meant that the Combine would move their forces to a new dimension to colonize once there was no longer a need for them to remain on the last world. (Humans on Earth would keep fighting to the last man, so to speak, which means the Combine need to keep an eye on them until they're full absorbed. Whereas the Vort’s permanently fall in line as long as the Nihilanth is around; no reason to have a ton of soldiers and equipment around, so it's on to the next world.)

Also, they didn't "shoot on by," they took control of Xen by way of the Nihilanth and used him and his people to maintain control of the realm; while the Nihilanth is around, the Vortigaunts ARE the Combine (Just because they don't have shiny suits or neato weapons doesn't mean they can't be under the Combine's sway). When the Nihilanth got destroyed the Combine's major power over the Vortigaunts would be lost (Even so, they still had a few enslaved by way of the collars; see the street sweeper.) We haven’t seen the 7 hour war so its unknown how many Vortiguants would have still been under the Combine’s sway when they invaded. Possibly enough to aid the invasion, possibly not enough to even bother with using them in a war that lasted all of seven hours.

When you think about it they did a similar thing on Earth, actually. However, they had to convert humans one by one because they’re not hiveminded. Notice how there wasn't a single "Combine" combine anywhere; they were all mass-produced biomachinary and converted humans. Again, after the Nihilanth was destroyed, the Combine lost their kingpin for Xen and access to anything the big baby was controlling.

Still when people turn up here looking for the backstory, among the first few replies they'll get is a link to that site, saying "here's the story" - "RTFM" if you will. "Fail" yourself. Get over your pride and accept the fact that most people are willing to accept the first thing they read as Gospel. The awkward ones are those unwilling to weigh up the evidence objectively.

Hey, what did I just say? Please stop with the elitest additude. It’s not worth insulting the intelligence of those who disagree with you anymore than it’s worth it for me to insult you for the silly things I think you're doing. We're talking about stuff in a videogame, after all. Calling people followers only serves to try to incite them.

Now, I might be wrong, yes, but as far as I see, all the evidence either points to a Combine-Xen link or that Valve placed clues that look like they line up, but in reality don’t go anywhere and all the links are just coincidences. (The Nihilanth wasn’t modified with cybernetics and set to enslave the Vortigaunts by the Combine, who signitures and enslavement and cybernetics, it was modified with cybernetics and set to enslave the Vortigaunts by some OTHER group!)

Well, that pretty much sums up the entire Combine on Xen argument. 2 hazily worded quotes and some modifications to the Nihilanth which could have been performed by anyone - could even just be there to look cool. The skin tone thing is really scraping the barrel...you'll discount the aesthetic difference between Xen and the Combine on Earth, yet you'll try and draw a link between Nihilanth and the advisor based on some kind of off-beige skin? Are you suggesting they are the same race...?

No, I was suggesting they used some "Combine Advisor" DNA when they modified the Nihilanth. And again, once the Nihilanth was under their control, the Combine didn’t need to dump a ton of Combine crap all over Xen. They had the Vortigaunts to extend and maintain their influence in Xen, a realm which isn’t well suited to most species. Even so, I agree the skin color thing is a very, very tenuous link and I wasn’t using it for the basis of my beliefs at all. Take it or leave it, it doesn't matter to me. There’s still other links around. It’s the “cherry on top” so, to speak; not scraping the bottom of the barral as you put it. Again; the Combine like to enslave things in other dimensions; the Vortigaunts were enslaved. Either we make up a third party (Which, while a possibility theory, it has zero evidence to support it at this time (And of course, that could very well change)), or we draw the link.

Also, the shackles on the vorts in HL2 are NOT the same, someone checked it out. They're a different colour, there's more of them, and in HL2 the collars have a little hoop at the top (for a chain, poss...?)

HL2 Vortigaunts are missing the third finger on their middle hand and have much longer necks (Which is why two collars fit on them, unlike in Half-Life), does that make them a different race altogether? The collars and shackels are in the same locations and are green (They just don’t have the garish chrome color which was all the rage during HL1’s era.. which makes sense since a slave race typically isn’t going to have shiny shackles) And for the record, the HL1 collars have the loop too.

 

[Jandor]

Im in a rush and can't be bothered to quote all that.

The one major thing that convinces me is. The Combine, supposedly built Nihilanth, a huge being designed to teleport things around. Yet in HL2, Mossman states that the Combine don't know how to use Xen to teleport. Infact, Combine teleportation is completely different to Xen based teleportation.

After enslaving the race that knows how to do it, making a giant version of the race that knows how to do it, and using the technology to invade Earth via Xen forces. They suddenly got mass amnesia?

 

[Asknoone]

Im in a rush and can't be bothered to quote all that.

The one major thing that convinces me is. The Combine, supposedly built Nihilanth, a huge being designed to teleport things around. Yet in HL2, Mossman states that the Combine don't know how to use Xen to teleport. Infact, Combine teleportation is completely different to Xen based teleportation.

After enslaving the race that knows how to do it, making a giant version of the race that knows how to do it, and using the technology to invade Earth via Xen forces. They suddenly got mass amnesia?

Exactly.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Im in a rush and can't be bothered to quote all that.

The one major thing that convinces me is. The Combine, supposedly built Nihilanth, a huge being designed to teleport things around. Yet in HL2, Mossman states that the Combine don't know how to use Xen to teleport. Infact, Combine teleportation is completely different to Xen based teleportation.

After enslaving the race that knows how to do it, making a giant version of the race that knows how to do it, and using the technology to invade Earth via Xen forces. They suddenly got mass amnesia?

Smackdown administered. If anyone can come back at that with something plausible, then I'll forever respect them.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[ríomhaire]

Why does everything me, Jandor and Angry post in turn into a Combine-onXen discustion?

 

[$kelet0r]

I guess otherwise you'd never talk to each other lol
besides i refuse to argue - i await enlightenment
although Angry LAwyer's theory is fairly weak - not impossible - as it is based only on things that haven't been said or fully fleshed out .... the argument of the impossible as opposed to the possible

 

[Asknoone]

His argument is actually quite strong.

 

[Jandor]

for you who want Adrian or 7-hour war. (Spoilers)

Why does everything me, Jandor and Angry post in turn into a Combine-onXen discustion?

Hehe, I think these two topics are blatantly related .

although Angry LAwyer's theory is fairly weak - not impossible - as it is based only on things that haven't been said or fully fleshed out .... the argument of the impossible as opposed to the possible

How is it weak? I want to know, because it got me convinced, and it took a lot of doing.

That 'fancy site' has had some approval from Marc Laidlaw...

I feel it get's my feelings across better than words .

 

[pomegranate]

Im in a rush and can't be bothered to quote all that.

The one major thing that convinces me is. The Combine, supposedly built Nihilanth, a huge being designed to teleport things around. Yet in HL2, Mossman states that the Combine don't know how to use Xen to teleport. Infact, Combine teleportation is completely different to Xen based teleportation.

After enslaving the race that knows how to do it, making a giant version of the race that knows how to do it, and using the technology to invade Earth via Xen forces. They suddenly got mass amnesia?

I don't know where you get "built Nihilanth" from. I don't think anyone here has suggested that, and the source that some people seem so annoyed by (The Half Life Saga Story Guide) actually suggests something explicitly different to this.
I don't recall exactly what Mossman said, but I do agree that Nihilanth's teleportation was distinct from the Combine's. However, I think this actually supports the idea that the Combine enslaved Nihilanth:
'Adapting' Nihilanth into the Combine and forcing it to do their bidding gave them a distinct tactical advantage in whatever endeavours they're involved in - being able to transport beasties or whatever, to very particular locations, rather than just shifting massive hunks of metal across the universe.

As I said before, I don't think Nihilanth's teleportation ability was technology. I think it was a natural ability, not something that could be stolen or copied. Thus when Gordon killed Nihilanth, they lost this ability - not forgot.
So for me it follows that if it wasn't for Gordon, the Combine's invasion plan may have been more based on sending over Vortigaunts and Alien Grunts to Earth, instead of being required to create their own bases there.

So, not smacked down, really. Sorry.

 

[Jandor]

It's a natural ability is it, The Combine didn't make him that way then? Then what is there to say the Combine where on Xen?
How come so many Combine on Xen theorists use the stictches and the "ass-jet" as proof the Combine where there and that they altered the Nihilanth?
How come a large intergalactic and interdimensional Empire can't figure out how Nihilanth is doing it?

 

[pomegranate]

How come a large intergalactic and interdimensional Empire can't figure out how Nihilanth is doing it?

Maybe it just beyond their ability to figure it out (no matter how smart you are, there's always someone smarter than you out there). Maybe it was something Nihlanth had evolved to be able to do. Maybe they were in the process of figuring it out when Gordon killed him. There's lots of maybes. All it needs is a little imagination and open-mindedness.

Then what is there to say the Combine where on Xen?
How come so many Combine on Xen theorists use the stictches and the "ass-jet" as proof the Combine where there and that they altered the Nihilanth?

It's not just that, it's also that the Vortigaunts were slaves in HL1 and chose to fight against the Combine on Earth. It's also that, hmm, humans develop teleportation, get (partly) invaded by the Xen, then go over to the border world and cause a major disturbance, and then, hmm - just a few short years later get invaded by another alien power. A power that, according to theory-deniers, have absolutely no connection with Xen. Seems a bit coincidental to me, unless humans also went over to some other planet using their teleportation, which seems unlikely after the big-boom-smash that finished Black Mesa.

 

[Jandor]

Maybe it just beyond their ability to figure it out (no matter how smart you are, there's always someone smarter than you out there). Maybe it was something Nihlanth had evolved to be able to do. Maybe they were in the process of figuring it out when Gordon killed him. There's lots of maybes. All it needs is a little imagination and open-mindedness.

You can make anything fit with the storyline if you try hard enough.

It's not just that, it's also that the Vortigaunts were slaves in HL1 and chose to fight against the Combine on Earth. It's also that, hmm, humans develop teleportation, get (partly) invaded by the Xen, then go over to the border world and cause a major disturbance, and then, hmm - just a few short years later get invaded by another alien power. A power that, according to theory-deniers, have absolutely no connection with Xen. Seems a bit coincidental to me, unless humans also went over to some other planet using their teleportation, which seems unlikely after the big-boom-smash that finished Black Mesa.

The Vortigaunts choose to fight with you in HL2 because they are no longer slaves to Nihilanth (You did kill him), then along comes the Combine, who wants to enslave them again.
why would they not fight, I fail to see how this shows anything.

I can't totally explain how the Combine know where here, maybe a huge interdimensional radar picked up on the Cascade, maybe the Portal storms attracted there attention, maybe the Portal Storms pulled them off course. etc. etc.
A lot more plausible than the thicky stupid Combine can't figure out what Nihilanth is doing because it's natural.

You remind me of me, I used to use the "it's natural" argument as well .

Also, I'm not a "theory-denier". It's a different theory.

 

[OvA]

With Breen's mention of another Universe, maybe the Combine are from an alternate universe and the Xen they took over was different from the one we speak of, or maybe they inhabit an alternate Earth? Kinda far-fetched but eh.

 

[D.Bag]

How could they be rebels? The Combine are not in charge yet so there would be noone to rebel againts

Half Life 2:7-Hours War, Rebel without a cause

HL2 nerds rival Star Wars/Trek nerds.

 

[Laivasse]

The idea that the Combine used Nihilanth to teleport, then lost the ability when he died is flawed. Humans in HL2 have developed teleportation based solely on the fact that they know Xen exists and use it as a slingshot. The Combine seek this tech - it's part of the whole resistance betrayal plot. Mossman has helped the Combine build a portal which utilises Xen, by ripping off Eli's research. Why would the Combine not be able to do this on their own, if they had controlled Xen? It points to the fact that they don't even know Xen exists.

The Vortigaunts choose to fight with you in HL2 because they are no longer slaves to Nihilanth (You did kill him), then along comes the Combine, who wants to enslave them again.
why would they not fight, I fail to see how this shows anything.

Seconded 1000-fold. I don't see how this could be made into an argument. It would be in the nature of any creature with a self-preservation instinct to fight the Combine.

It's also that, hmm, humans develop teleportation, get (partly) invaded by the Xen, then go over to the border world and cause a major disturbance, and then, hmm - just a few short years later get invaded by another alien power. A power that, according to theory-deniers, have absolutely no connection with Xen. Seems a bit coincidental to me.

All it needs is a little imagination and open-mindedness.

Too right.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Im in a rush and can't be bothered to quote all that.

The one major thing that convinces me is. The Combine, supposedly built Nihilanth, a huge being designed to teleport things around. Yet in HL2, Mossman states that the Combine don't know how to use Xen to teleport. Infact, Combine teleportation is completely different to Xen based teleportation.

After enslaving the race that knows how to do it, making a giant version of the race that knows how to do it, and using the technology to invade Earth via Xen forces. They suddenly got mass amnesia?

Firstly, who said they built the Nihilanth? Modified extensively, yes, but built? Also, the Nihilanth, IMO, would have been primarily made to place Xen under Combine control.

Secondly, Mossman's exact quote was
"We're closing in on a reliable local teleport technology, something the Combine still hasn't mastered. Eli thinks their portals are string based, similar to our Colavial(sp)-model, but they fail to factor in the Dark Energy equations. They can tunnel through from their universe, but once their here they're dependant on local transportation. If they knew what we were doing with entanglement...

Dr. Kliener compressed the Xen relay FAR beyond anything he imagined at Black Mesa. We've figured out how to use Xen as an unexpressed(?) access, effectively a dimensional slingshot. So we can sling around the borderworld and come back in local space without having to pass through."

So when you ask why the Combine don't have "the technology," what technology are you talking about? The ability to teleport from point a to point b without stopping by the borderworld? The Nihilanth and the other Xen sentients never demonstrated that ability; they only teleported things from the Borderworld to Earth or from one spot in the Borderworld to another. There's nothing demonstrating that they knew about the slingshot method.

However, even if the Nihilanth had this ability and we were just never privvy to it, there's nothing stating the Combine weren't attempting to master it; indeed, from Mossman's speech it sounds like they were actively persuing it, they were just a few concepts and equations short, which even if the Nihilanth had the ability, it doesn't mean they would automatically figure out every scientific concept behind it.

 

[r2000]

Im in a rush and can't be bothered to quote all that.

The one major thing that convinces me is. The Combine, supposedly built Nihilanth, a huge being designed to teleport things around. Yet in HL2, Mossman states that the Combine don't know how to use Xen to teleport. Infact, Combine teleportation is completely different to Xen based teleportation.

After enslaving the race that knows how to do it, making a giant version of the race that knows how to do it, and using the technology to invade Earth via Xen forces. They suddenly got mass amnesia?

true. I think we caused a resonance cascade and got Xen pissed off. Nihilanth was just a dictator. He sent his guys to Earth.
You see Xen is a road between 2 houses.
One is Earth, one is the Combine.
Apparently, we got the combines attention, and most likely with the help of Breen, got the info to teleport into Earth. Earth-dwellers, drove into cities to escape Xenogens, (headcrabs mainly), were easy pray as Combine armies teleported in, and attacked.

Side note-Our resonance cascade may alone have triggered a Combine Invasion, functioning as a sort of becaon. They just waited to see who would win the Earth-Xen Conflict.

 

[Dalamari]

7-hour war:
This would possibly be the most unfun thing ever. Wave after wave of synth pounding you. It lasted 7 f**king hours, the humans were anihilated, there have been about 3 wars that lasted shorter amounts of time than that. Plus there would be no deversity, only synths and some xen aliens that got caught in the portal storms. Plus, you know how it ends, imagine pounding synth after synth for 7 hours then suddenly Breen shows up on the radio, "we surrender", rather f**king antclimatic.

This I don't agree with, if the 7-hour war was fought it couldn't be played out just like any other part of HL2, if you have to have a lot of scripted sequences like getting knocked down by a grenade and a guy picking you up and carrying you into a bunker where you hear Breen surrendering and maybe a combine knocks the door down and shoots everyone up, then you come back to City 17 out of a dream of whatever.

 

[pomegranate]

Actually, my idea for a 7-hour war involves escorting someone of importance - Vance (plus infant Alyx) or Kleiner, perhaps - to safety from somewhere under attack - I'm thinking of a ragtag convoy rolling out of a devestated city and being hassled by Combine gunships. Not for the whole game, just the ending section... perhaps you wind up at a bunker, a la Terminator 3...

 

[Cons Himself]

i think it would be good except for one thing: in the end, we lose.

 

[pomegranate]

Well, we won't know that until the series ends...
Depends what you mean by 'lose' - if the aim of the expansion was to survive the war and get yourself and others to safety in order for the eventual resistance to succeed, then ultimately we don't lose... that is if the Combine are defeated in HL3 or whatever comes later...