Freedom Tower.

[GhostValkyrie]

In your wet dreams :dozey:

Don't offer opposition, Polokov.
Join me, and together we can rule the galazy!

 

[Maxi]

Don't you mean the forums?

 

[babywax]

like I said, there intrested in the future prospects,. not the short term

and green bunny is totally correct. and if you cant see that , then get a pair of sheers!., to shave that wool away from your eyes

Rofl, long term investments into fossil fuels, I'm sorry but I can't help chuckling when I hear that

First of all, how does the American government gain money from reduced oil prices? Finally after a long time of highly fuel inefficient cars, cars are starting to get more miles per gallon, and with reduced oil prices, that means less money from the gas tax (gas tax is stupid IMHO though).

They do, the americans are just using them.

Using the Iraqis for what? Money? I still do not see how the American goverment gains money from freeing (feel free to exchange for whatever term you see fit) Iraq.

 

[Maxi]

America has given certain companies (haliburton for example) contracts so that they get to build the infrastructure in Iraq, the people who pay are the countries who donated money towards building Iraq. The US gets no money over this but all the companies that have been given contracts will be getting several buckets full of money. Also many are protesting that most of the companies that have gotten the most high paying contracts have something to do with goverment official, IE Haliburtons Ex CEO is Dick Cheeny(or was it someone else?).

 

[babywax]

What other company in America can do what Haliburton can? (Just to put to rest the Dick Cheney argument, although it is quite a coincidence, I don't know where I heard it but I think he was CEO of Haliburton, not sure).

However, you are right, the companies that are rebuilding Iraq will likely get a whole lot of money, but I hardly think that is the reason for the U.S. to go to war?

 

[Maxi]

No, the reason was for bush to secure a second season in the whitehouse, they wen't to war because they wanted to give the people a false sense of security and also show that they have power, and to get voters.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Second term to acieve what exactly? If all the things he does now are to stay on top, what is thepoint in being on top? What will he do in his final term?

 

[The Mullinator]

If the U.S. really wanted more oil then why would they spend billions of dollars fighting a war when they could just use some sort of underhanded business tacticts to gain controll of other countries oil? Its stupid to think the U.S. invaded Iraq for the oil when if that was what they really wanted then they could have gotten the oil through much cheaper, and much easier means.

 

[Maxi]

Tha hell i know! thats just a theory of mine that seems to fit, if youve got a better one then by all means... share it.

 

[Murray_H]

If the U.S. really wanted more oil then why would they spend billions of dollars fighting a war when they could just use some sort of underhanded business tacticts to gain controll of other countries oil? Its stupid to think the U.S. invaded Iraq for the oil when if that was what they really wanted then they could have gotten the oil through much cheaper, and much easier means.

Because underhand business tactics don't give them the role of police force of the world where they can use the threat of terror to invade countries that pose a threat to them in the (un)forseeable future

 

[The Mullinator]

Imo these are the reasons the U.S. invaded Iraq:

1. Bush had personal reasons for attacking
2. To have a much stronger presence in the middle east
3. To scare other Arab countries into being more cooperative

Murray: I was saying they didn't invade for the oil.

 

[Murray_H]

So you were, sorry

 

[babywax]

Of course we wanted a much stronger place in the middle east, who wouldn't?

We are going there to stop terrorists and dictators from gaining too much power, because more likely than not they will be unfair and/or evil.
If we get power in the Middle East we then gaurantee that we will not be at risk of war, and nobody likes war. Not even Bush, believe it or not.

3. To scare other Arab countries into being more cooperative

Yeah, and to (hopefully) turn them into Democracies.

 

[clarky003]

obviously a bush fan, lol. man he really got to you with his speaches. (its not about terroisim, completely, it was a convieniant excuse) :laughs: you think hes telling the truth. the point is he lied about alot to get this war of his, and do you really want a government with liars and hidden agenda's..? he tried to make the American public feel self richous about something that was totally unjustified and power hungry, and its stopping the world moving into a new era. (which people really want, u know,,.. the one where there are no 3rd world countries that have massive differences between rich and poor)

 

[clarky003]

Murray: I was saying they didn't invade for the oil.

Oil = power
more Oil = more power
more power = more control
more control = more buisness
more buisness = more money

OIL = ENERGY = POWER

how can you say that it has nothing to do with oil, when its that simple. :dozey:

 

[babywax]

obviously a bush fan, lol. man he really got to you with his speaches. (its not about terroisim, completely, it was a convieniant excuse) :laughs: you think hes telling the truth. the point is he lied about alot to get this war of his, and do you really want a government with liars and hidden agenda's..? he tried to make the American public feel self richous about something that was totally unjustified and power hungry, and its stopping the world moving into a new era. (which people really want, u know,,.. the one where there are no 3rd world countries that have massive differences between rich and poor)

Instead of saying broad statements like "Bush lies" why don't you point it out? I'm not a fan of Bush on a lot of things, but I do support him on the war.

he tried to make the American public feel self richous about something that was totally unjustified and power hungry, and its stopping the world moving into a new era. (which people really want, u know,,.. the one where there are no 3rd world countries that have massive differences between rich and poor)

Ok, so he isn't helping the world move forward by destroying the man who, still today, has hidden mass graves, still being found every day? He has (they found em like a week ago) which have complex mechanisms on the tip for mixing sarin gas mid flight. Those mechanisms couldn't be used for hardly anything else.
They didn't find the actual gas, but sarin is a binary liquid and highly unstable, so it must be mixed mid flight, and the devices on the tips of those rockets had all the specialized valves required for mixing sarin mid flight.

What do you think Iraq is anyway? Do you think it's not a 3rd world country where there are massive differences between the rich and the poor? The poor can lift themselves up in a democratic society, but NOT in one ruled by a dictator. Lets say a poor person who had some mis-fortune wants to excel in the military. He becomes a general eventually, but then he's murdered because a coward like Saddam Hussein is afraid of him overthrowing him.

Dictatorships never work, and they should not be allowed to exist due to the fact that they do not allow the people, who pay the taxes and support their country, to have any say at all in the running of their country.

 

[clarky003]

good points , very swaying argument, (it could go on forever) obviously Bush is telling the truth in your eyes. and its not my position to convince you otherwise. But there was never any proper proof provided that Saddam was envolved, I mean look at the man,, did he look like he was ready to comand future terrosist attacks?. my point is, people lost their lives, soldiers English and American, over something unjustified, and its sickening to think that his lies are taken to be truth,

e.g ' Bush administration working in Mcdonalds selling Whoppers'. Mr Powl and cronies cook them up in the back.

and bush Delivers them.

(im not suggesting a dictatorship just a better government, and a better world would be nice, but some people are too stuck into what there doing to even try. ;( )

 

[babywax]

Again, if you're going to make statements back them up with facts please! You can't go around saying people are lying without providing proof, or atleast telling us what you think he's lying about. You can continue to say "You believe his lies" and try to belittle my position, but it means nothing if you don't back it up.

(im not suggesting a dictatorship just a better government, and a better world would be nice, but some people are too stuck into what there doing to even try. )

I wasn't saying you were, sorry you inferred that. I was saying Saddam WAS a dictator, and there is almost absolute proof that he had weapons of mass destruction (see my post before about the sarin gas). It doesn't matter how many people die, it only matters that you're doing the right thing. We didn't do the right thing when Bush Sr. chose Saddam Hussein to lead Iraq, we chose the lesser of two evils and it has come back to haunt us. If we had done the right thing and turned Iraq into a democracy right then, and made them make a constitution that no one was above, this war would not be needed today.

The official reason we invaded Iraq was because he refused to disarm in the face of many, many UN orders. But I won't dance around the subject, it was very related to the war on terror, and Saddam most likely provided help to the terrorists, and Al-Quaeda (sp.?). There is no proof of this that I know how however, but I don't really know much on that subject and don't have the time to look anything up on it right now.

The plain fact is that Saddam Hussein was a murderer. A MASS murderer, and we as a WORLD cannot allow one person to murder thousands upon thousands of people. It is our moral obligation to stop them and deliver justice to them. We cannot stand by and let the Iraqi people be oppressed by an evil tyrant like Saddam Hussein, one who kills anyone who opposes him, a man so hated he has over 10 body doubles due to the amount of people who hate him enough to kill him.

You cannot argue a person, you argue with a person, so stop saying I have been swayed by propaganda and whatnot and argue the facts, not me.

' Bush administration working in Mcdonalds selling Whoppers'

Heh, almost, it should be:
'Bush administration working in Burger King selling Whoppers'
Burger King makes the Whopper

 

[clarky003]

Bush administration working in Mcdonalds selling Whoppers'

thats an anallergy of how stupid he is, selling the whopper in Mcdonalds.

It doesn't matter how many people die, it only matters that you're doing the right thing. We didn't do the right thing when Bush Sr. chose Saddam Hussein to lead

Omg, your mad.
your really into this arnt you, you like the idea of America being the worlds most powerful country, ..

and I have all the facts, but after that comment you can go search for them yourself. Use copernic agent (if youve heard of it), to find out about the exact statements bush made. Pre war. and how he got everything wrong, some statements where even said like they where facts!. but how do you get facts wrong mr Bush??!

you have a lot of research to do....

The plain fact is that Saddam Hussein was a murderer. A MASS murderer, and we as a WORLD cannot allow one person to murder thousands upon thousands of people. It is our moral obligation to stop them and deliver justice to them. We cannot stand by and let the Iraqi people be oppressed by an evil tyrant like Saddam Hussein, one who kills anyone who opposes him, a man so hated he has over 10 body doubles due to the amount of people who hate him enough to kill him.

but it seems like you want a leader who wont answer important questions based on accusations building up to the war and September 11th (deceit isnt any better a quality),, ... another thing for you to research

 

[babywax]

No, that's ok, you've proven my point for me by not backing up your argument, thanks.

 

[clarky003]

i can get the info, using the references. I can get it to you next post

 

[ComradeBadger]

Right, Anyone who says Saddam didn't have WMD or didn't pose a threat to the world is (no offence) quite frankly, kidding themselves.

In 1998 Saddam Hussein had aquired enough VX nerve gas agent to gas the population of the entire world. Sure, it would have decayed by 2003, but the fact he went out of his way, and spent a huge amount of money, shows a willingness to be a threat.

Simple.

 

[The Mullinator]

Murray: I was saying they didn't invade for the oil.

Oil = power
more Oil = more power
more power = more control
more control = more buisness
more buisness = more money

OIL = ENERGY = POWER

how can you say that it has nothing to do with oil, when its that simple. :dozey:

Oil really doesn't mean a thing and the fact is it is slowly being replaced by other fuel sources such as hydrogen for fuel cells. Why would Bush put forward over a billion $ for working with fuel cell's if he wanted to stay working with oil? If you read my post previously you would see my reasoning why they didn't invade for oil.

originally posted by me
If the U.S. really wanted more oil then why would they spend billions of dollars fighting a war when they could just use some sort of underhanded business tacticts to gain controll of other countries oil? Its stupid to think the U.S. invaded Iraq for the oil when if that was what they really wanted then they could have gotten the oil through much cheaper, and much easier means.

 

[hyenolie]

i saw that a couple of days ago on the news, the design is much better, good job american ingenuity

 

[Kadayi]

Don't offer opposition, Polokov.
Join me, and together we can rule the galazy!

Like sauron I don't share (Plus you might have kooties)

 

[GhostValkyrie]

No, the reason was for bush to secure a second season in the whitehouse, they wen't to war because they wanted to give the people a false sense of security and also show that they have power, and to get voters.

Yes, secure more votes by pissing off a bunch of liberal voters. :dozey:

Like sauron I don't share (Plus you might have kooties)

If that's how you wish to be, then that is what you shall receive.
You take over that side of the galaxy, and I'll take over this side...and when we meet in the middle, expect more than a mere fist fight.