'Gay Baby' Article Angers Both Sides

I don't know how anybody can think of homosexuality as a product of choice. Anybody who says this needs to, in their own time, try real hard at becoming gay. I want you to go out and begin lusting over other men. Not going through the motions, but the actual drive to ****. Then I want you to force yourself to get an erection without the use of ingested substances while making out and groping your same-sex partner and maintain it while you stick it into his ass.

I mean, you can just willingly do all this, and you can revert to being straight out of choice once this little experiment has concluded. So knock yourself out.
 
Okay, I'm on my way to North Carolina now...where exactly do you live?


...

You're right though, Mr. Sinthe, I know it can't just be a matter of choice. Then again everyone's different in the head, so for some people it may just be choice, and for others, not.
I just felt like mindless moder when reading this thread:
mindless_moder said:
so you guys are actually buying the fact that your genes determine your sexual orientation :S ? . is there some kind of article or evidence that everyone else knows about or something . i feel like im out of the loop here because a lot of people in this thread seem to be comfortable with biological determinism especially in relation to peoples sexual preference.
Click to expand...
It does make more sense to think of homosexuality as a genetic thing though, now that I've thought about it some more.
Anyway...
 
no it's not a choice ever ..you dont choose to be heterosexual why would you choose to be homosexual ..oh and experimentation doesnt count; it doesnt mean you're gay
 
Any ease of choice in turning homosexual would be bisexuality. After all, it's not like you'd just stop liking women if you found yourself liking men after years of enjoying vagina.

You pretty much are falling back on a biological basis when you say "everyone's different in the head". Barring some kind of brainwashing, I'm not going to find myself attracted to men. That's just not in my nature. For one to even entertain the thought of "converting" to homosexuality, one would at least require some kind of mental predisposition towards it. And seeing as how there's no evidence to support the idea that it's a learned behavior from upbringing (to the contrary in fact) genetics is pretty much the only valid explanation left standing at the moment.

My point is that your sexual orientation is, for the most part, something outside of your control or anybody else's. It's not something you can just drum up internal willpower to alter. Case in point: Ted Haggard. A homophobic evangelical Christian with a wife and children. He was born-again at 16. You'd think that after years and years of doing everything in his power to be straight, he wouldn't be having sex with gay prostitutes 40 years into his life.
 
theotherguy said:
yes. Genetic altercation offers alot of problems of its own, but it should not be prohibited, only restricted in certain cases (for instance, purposefully making your baby retarted or have a third arm or something else unhealthy) I have no problem with eye/hair/skin color/immunity to genetic diseases/cloning/added brain power as long as such altercation is provided as a choice to everyone free of charge. Otherwise we'll end up with a genetic caste system like Brave New World.
Click to expand...
Hahaha, imagine this "baby selection screen" a la Oblivion :D

/me turns cheek slider all to the right

Me: "HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA"
Wife: "Oh come on darli HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH OH MY GOD"
 
I'm going on the assumption that all evangelical hardliners are closeted gays ..I mean when you're that repressed it must be for a reason; self loathing
 
Damn you, Beerend, that's the most nightmarish dystopian futureworld I can imagine. D:
 
lmao beerdude :LOL:



Absinthe said:
Any ease of choice in turning homosexual would be bisexuality...

...And seeing as how there's no evidence to support the idea that it's a learned behavior from upbringing (to the contrary in fact) genetics is pretty much the only valid explanation left standing at the moment.

My point is that your sexual orientation is, for the most part, something outside of your control or anybody else's.
Click to expand...

Aye, makes sense. Fine then >:/
 
ok so does anyone actually have any papers or statistics from the research that proves this ? because i just googled it and there is a LOT of evidence against this "gay gene" theory . if our genes determined our sexual orientation that would suggest that we as humans have "instincts" which is quite impossible thats what separates us from animals.
 
Did you just try to say humans don't have instincts?

So I guess you learned how to suck your mom's tit at preschool then :|
 
mindless_moder said:
ok so does anyone actually have any papers or statistics from the research that proves this ? because i just googled it and there is a LOT of evidence against this "gay gene" theory . if our genes determined our sexual orientation that would suggest that we as humans have "instincts" which is quite impossible thats what separates us from animals.
Click to expand...

Are you honestly saying that we don't have instincts?

...

I have yet to read anything conclusive about any such thing as a "gay gene", but it is implied heavily through much scientific study. There are physiological differences between homosexual and heterosexual brains. There are testaments from homosexuals who have struggled to turn straight (going as far as electro-shock therapy) to no avail. Homosexuality has also been found among other species of animals. Don't try and tell me that a ****ing giraffe consciously evaluated his sexual orientation and placed his bets on turning gay.

The theory of homosexuality being a product of one's physiology and biology has a good deal of evidence acknowledged by scientific consensus. The claim that it's a product of choice is substantiated by nothing other than pseudoscience spouted by evangelical mouthpieces. Such is why all relevant and pertinent research is devoted towards a biological root.

Until there is some earth-shattering revelation that gives credence to "gay choice", I don't see why anybody would bother with it.
 
Absinthe said:
Are you honestly saying that we don't have instincts?

...

I have yet to read anything conclusive about any such thing as a "gay gene", but it is implied heavily through much scientific study. There are physiological differences between homosexual and heterosexual brains. There are testaments from homosexuals who have struggled to turn straight (going as far as electro-shock therapy) to no avail. Homosexuality has also been found among other species of animals. Don't try and tell me that a ****ing giraffe consciously evaluated his sexual orientation and placed his bets on turning gay.

The theory of homosexuality being a product of one's physiology and biology has a good deal of evidence acknowledged by scientific consensus. The claim that it's a product of choice is substantiated by nothing other than pseudoscience spouted by evangelical mouthpieces. Such is why all relevant and pertinent research is devoted towards a biological root.

Until there is some earth-shattering revelation that gives credence to "gay choice", I don't see why anybody would bother with it.
Click to expand...
do you have any scientific research or statistics ? . as for the animals that usually happens when they are placed in captivity correct me if im wrong. i've searched through scientific research online all of which refutes this idea of a gay gene. you need to form a distinction between "physiological necessities" and "instinct" a baby feeds on breasts because it is hungry it meets a physiological necessity they also suck anything you throw at them so are you telling me they've been conditioned to suck on chew toys ? no. they're just searching for something that satisfies the physiological need . i'm really not being narrow minded here i just want some factual evidence thats all.

edit: guess i was wrong about the gay animals.
 
If you have no instincts, why do you feel fear and hunger, and why does you penis go up when you see certain things?
No psychologist is going to tell you that instinctual reactions do not exist. That's absurd.


I'd guess that homosexuality as a random trait reduces strain on a familial population, by preventing overpopulation and retaining a higher number of healthy caregivers simultaneously.
Think about if every person had a child. Or more than one. That'd put a great deal of strain on our society today, so imagine back when like 25% of kids died from basic diseases.

So it's pretty safe to assume, for me, that homosexuality is a product of genetics and other such natural aspects. Not excluding any social component, but exceeding it.
 
thats not very logical because being homosexual has the same effect on our population regardless of whether its genetic or not genetic you cant state that its genetic just because it keeps numbers in check. psychology is very volatile there are so many contradicting schools of thought. in any case i guess we do have instincts in one form or another but they aren't like the ones animals have.
 
I came to that conclusion looking at the lack of choice as a given, as that's where the evidence takes me.
It's a sociobiological perspective. Not mainstream, but then agains I'm only theorizing.

Nobody goes "I'll just go gay to maintain a healthier population." And yet they do anyways.

Also, how are our instincts not like other animals'?
 
mindless_moder said:
thats not very logical because being homosexual has the same effect on our population regardless of whether its genetic or not genetic you cant state that its genetic just because it keeps numbers in check. psychology is very volatile there are so many contradicting schools of thought. in any case i guess we do have instincts in one form or another but they aren't like the ones animals have.
Click to expand...

Jesus christ, what are you smoking? I'm notoriously bad at politics, ethics and the assorted talks but this is too much.

thats not very logical because being homosexual has the same effect on our population regardless of whether its genetic or not

What? How can having a genetic chance be the same as a totally open choice? Lets say this gene is programmed to have a 10% chance of clicking (I know very little about genetics so this is more logic based), does that mean 1 in 10 individuals would (If gene theory is incorrect, and your idea is correct) CHOOSE to be homosexual? I'd love to know how that works.

in any case i guess we do have instincts in one form or another but they aren't like the ones animals have.

BS. You contain genetic material that is found in every other multi cellular organism on the planet, pretty much. You are 99% genetically similar to a chimpanzee. Are you suggesting that
you don't naturally stay close to your mother as a small child, you learn to? And that when any other animal does the same it is instinct?
Don't you consider the need for food and water the same as most animals instincts to feed and drink?

Please don't be foolish enough to think humans are at all special.
 
Also, how are our instincts not like other animals'?
Click to expand...

I think he means the way humans can 'change' or adapt their first response in for example stressful situations. Whereas an animal will fight or give flight or even freeze a human who has trained or learned in some way (martial arts is a key one that springs to mind ) will react in a different manner.

You often hear about people who have done something courageous will say that they just found themselves acting, diving into rivers, getting people out of burning buildings, etc. We seem to have the ability to override our instincts.

Also the human development time from a baby through toddler to adult is a very large time who is to say what a developing mind can learn and adapt to.

On this note there will be a change happening in British schools where child aged 7 or there about will be taught a secondary language. It appears that its easier for a child of this age to 'absorb' the language rather than having to learn it as an adult would.
 
Llama said:
Jesus christ, what are you smoking? I'm notoriously bad at politics, ethics and the assorted talks but this is too much.

thats not very logical because being homosexual has the same effect on our population regardless of whether its genetic or not

What? How can having a genetic chance be the same as a totally open choice? Lets say this gene is programmed to have a 10% chance of clicking (I know very little about genetics so this is more logic based), does that mean 1 in 10 individuals would (If gene theory is incorrect, and your idea is correct) CHOOSE to be homosexual? I'd love to know how that works.

in any case i guess we do have instincts in one form or another but they aren't like the ones animals have.

BS. You contain genetic material that is found in every other multi cellular organism on the planet, pretty much. You are 99% genetically similar to a chimpanzee. Are you suggesting that
you don't naturally stay close to your mother as a small child, you learn to? And that when any other animal does the same it is instinct?
Don't you consider the need for food and water the same as most animals instincts to feed and drink?

Please don't be foolish enough to think humans are at all special.
Click to expand...
calm down. what mecha was trying to say was that the fact that homosexuality keeps our population in control is an indication that it might have evolved as a genetic trait. my point was that being gay has the same impact on our population regardless of whether it is a trait or choice. as for the instinct we dont really do anything by instinct if we did all human children and adults would behave the same way in certain situations , not all children stick by their parents,we dont migrate or have explicit eating habbits , we dont have specific means of communication , we dont mark territory etc. there are a lot of things that chimps do that we do not. as for hunger its instinctual in a way but its just response to fulfilling a physiological necessity.

our instincts arent like animals because we arent predisposed to a certain behaviour and our primary responses can be overcome based on the circumstance.

CptStern said:
no it's not a choice ever ..you dont choose to be heterosexual why would you choose to be homosexual ..oh and experimentation doesnt count; it doesnt mean you're gay
Click to expand...

why ? . when you experiment you are conditioning yourself to be aroused by a member of the same sex that wouldnt be possible if the behaviour was hardcoded into your genes.
 
Mindless, humans have instincts.

Ever had an erection? Congratulations. Your instinctual drive to mate is fully intact. Proceed as usual.

As a self-conscious and intelligent species, we obviously have some more wiggle room. Something can scare the crap out of you, but you can also override your urge to run. But to deny that extincts even exist in humans is bafflingly ignorant. Any practicing psychologist or biologist would lose their license if they said advocated such a thing.
 
it isnt actually all that ignorant if we can override what you call "instinct" then it isnt an instinct at all . instincts are involuntary patterns of behaviour. its actually a very controversial subject sociologists and biologists have been debating it for quite some time now.
 
1. an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.
2. a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.
3. a natural aptitude or gift: an instinct for making money.
4. natural intuitive power.
Click to expand...
- Dictionary.com

Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular behavior...
Click to expand...
- Wikipedia

Funny. It would seem that a predisposition or tendency can fully qualify as an instinct.
 
alright but like you said we have considerable amount of wiggle room so much so that we can completely overwrite our first response but if being homosexual is in your genes you still wont be able to overwrite it . it will be a physical part of you (some kind of change in your brain or something like that) just like how you cant change your eye colour.
 
I believe I made a reference to your penis in a previous post.
 
I really want to hear an alternative theory if the idea of innate behavior is bunk.

"Choice" is quite preposterous.
Social environmental upbringing is plausible, and probably plays a part to some extent. But that doesn't explain how straight families produce eventual homosexuals or even how gay couples that adopt can raise straight children.

A basis in biology is really the only thing left. And don't confuse that with an argument from ignorance. There just aren't any other conceivable alternatives. At least not that I know of.
 
i guess we really dont know enough about human psychology or biology to make a definitive conclusion atm.
 
If there's a Gay gene, why did God put it there in the first place?

Not that I believe there is. The gestatory hormone cocktail does that (that tastes like a Cosmopolitan).
 
kupoartist said:
If there's a Gay gene, why did God put it there in the first place?

Not that I believe there is. The gestatory hormone cocktail does that (that tastes like a Cosmopolitan).
Click to expand...

Here is an easy answer

Because he doesn't exist....amazing i know.
 
and what will be the test?

that baptist will rape the baby and if the baby enjoyed he is gay?
 
It's already in effect, RJMC.
 
kupoartist said:
If there's a Gay gene, why did God put it there in the first place?
Click to expand...

Exactly the problem.
If science can prove to a great enough degree that this is the case, then christians everywhere will be in for quite the crisis of faith.
 
God's knowlege is not for us to comphrehend!

*waves omniescence at you all*
 
Who the f*** cares if someone prefers the company of someone of the same sex? Why do these fundies give a s***? Is it their ridiculous bible? Shouldn't they be calling for slavery and the stoning of adulterers as well then? What possible different do gay people make to them? Are they afraid that a homosexual may try to pick them up and they'll like it?

That was a lot of questions. Probably won't get any answers.
 
ATM it is more of a leep of faith to suggest that your sexual orientation is anything but predetermined. Remember we can now manipulate the sexual orientation of fruit flies, and i predict in the future we will be able to do the same to animals as well. I think at this point its pretty arrogant to suggest that humans are the exception.

But, even if it turns out to be a choice it makes no difference to me. And, quite frankly , it's none of my ****ing busniness.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Exactly the problem.
If science can prove to a great enough degree that this is the case, then christians everywhere will be in for quite the crisis of faith.
Click to expand...

You really think so?

You sure they wouldn't just drastically alter the tenets of their religion as they have been doing for thousands of years?

At the most, the Pope would decree "Hey guys, God's had a change of plans. Nothing wrong with homosexuals." and his legions of groupies would continue as usual.
 
Absinthe said:
You really think so?

You sure they wouldn't just drastically alter the tenets of their religion as they have been doing for thousands of years?

At the most, the Pope would decree "Hey guys, God's had a change of plans. Nothing wrong with homosexuals." and his legions of groupies would continue as usual.
Click to expand...

The Pope represents most christians, but not all of them.

I don't mean a crisis of faith as in christianity simply ending when this is found to be true.
But at the same time, this isn't Genesis here. The very concept of sin in the bible is, even going by the common excuse that it's not but a poetry book, probably the least metaphorical part.

What it comes down to is a sin that's impossible to stop, that can't be repented for. It's a direct contradiction of a bible which says that sins can be halted at will.

People will still cling to the bible, and push it even further into a metaphorical abstraction in order to cope. Some people will lose faith, while others are going to go crazier like our eugenicist preacher here. Yet, regardless of the outcome, there will be a dramatic restructuring of what the christian faith means, and this can only be a push further into the secular.

Going by the trends so far, it's only a matter of time before God is reduced by his own followers into some kind of vague and meaningless Gaia-force, and from there it's a hop, skip and jump to complete obsolescence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Community Interviews: Tony Newton, co-creator of Redemption
Replies
0
Views
5K
Barnz
B
morgs
TTT Fanfic - The Island
Replies
8
Views
2K
Krynn72
Krynn72
CptStern
Bush: US presence in Iraq > 50 years
Replies
32
Views
2K
CptStern
CptStern
CptStern
The Adventures of Top Gear in redneck country
Replies
25
Views
2K
CyberPitz
CyberPitz
Tollbooth Willie
The Legacy of Pesmerga: Koola and the Bitch Queen
Replies
26
Views
1K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
Back
Top