Give me ONE reason...

[P-Lo]

he claimed in the debates that that quote is exaggerated and taken out of context... which it is. before i quote it, i want to note that we never stopped chasing OBL. as i have explained many times in this thread already, saddam was just simply the larger thread. anyway, here is that quote, in its entirety (sp?)... the referenced part is bolded:

Btw you missed a partial portion of that convo.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

Bush: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

 

[Edcrab]

Firstly, as I always say in these sorts of threads, let me go out of my way to state that while I disagree with the base actions of sending America to war even I can't deny that dragging Saddam out of power was a good thing.

I highly doubted if Iraq had WMDs (although the idea of them intending to produce them wasn't so farfetched) and the British Government's 45 minute claim never struck true to me; but when the actual invasion began and Saddam started launching scuds (yet another thing he was meant to have lost years ago) it made me reconsider. We didn't find nukes or long range missiles or antimatter bombs or whatever, but we found drums full of biological weapons and another mass grave- to quote an overused comment, "we did the right thing for the wrong reasons"- despite the paltry state of Iraq now, we can at least guarantee that the Coalition won't be gassing entire towns. Collateral damage is another matter, however.

But the fact is the delay between the West's recognition of Saddam as a threat (I believe someone already pointed out that Clinton, for example, felt as such) and the US's response to that was so huge that many people, quite understandly in my book, see the entire conflict as an oil-seizing maenouvre designed to detract attention away from problems at home.

I will say this though- I hope that regardless of who the American public chose to run their country, that they remember the promises made and make the next President pay if he doesn't meet those self-imposed standards. Too often, countries have a very selective memory and an unfortunate habit of grouping all parties under "Government", therefore lessening the impact of who made what mistake and when... or why...

 

[Andy]

i remember... but what does that prove? nothing. just that a lot of people disagreed. im glad our president didnt listen to those hippie protestors around the world, and instead listened to the leaders of countries around the world who advocated his decision.

... if you mean Britain, Blair also went against the people, cocked up the inteligence and is now twisting in the wind, just so he could get that little bit further up America's @ss. Europe were the only ones with enough balls to tell you where to go, and weren't you guys awfuly polite about it afterwards...

please. the arabs are more untied now than ever.

...yes... against the West and for our destruction...good for them (bad for us).

well theres a fundamental problem with that paragraph. kerry has no credibility...

Not now the Republican spin machine has located its chequebook.

 

[Sprafa]

i disagree... we still have plenty of allies.

politically yes. But no people likes you.

No Democratical Government survivies without the support of the people.

i remember... but what does that prove? nothing. just that a lot of people disagreed. im glad our president didnt listen to those hippie protestors around the world, and instead listened to the leaders of countries around the world who advocated his decision.

Isn't the Government made by the people, for the people and to extend the power of the people ?

the tax burden still falls on the rich, even though kerry find the loopholes, theres a post a little ways back explaining that.

please. the arabs are more untied now than ever.

Don't take my word for it ? - http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/6658

an ever-changing mess which is not over. kind of like iraq lol.

The Chinese could've held the leash on NK, but Bush had to **** it up....

more like they hate bush for removing saddam because they had special designated oil fields, provided by saddam, if they voted against the UN resolution.

Yeah, and what did Bush do ?
He invaded the entire country just to get those oil fields all for himself.
:|
Never heard about something called the European Union?

Bush split them up, although 90% of their positions in the UN are equal, on Iraq.

well theres a fundamental problem with that paragraph. kerry has no credibility...

Kerry wasn't president for the last 4 years, I agree. Bush is marked by the last 4 years. Kerry isn't. that's the whole point.

 

[Kiva128]

he wont... universal health care is an ideological fallicy. take canada, they are often cited as an example for socialist health care. what you usually dont hear is that you receive generic health care administered by the lowest bidder. this is another issue im steadily researching, and i have a few friends in canada, so thats all im gonna say about it.

imo, universal health care will never be realized in the USA. whether thats bad or good... im still not sure lol

Wow, now who's the ignorant one? Um...let's see. Oh yeah! IT'S YOU!

Guess what? I've been living in Canada for about 15 years and for all those years, not me, nor ANYONE i've spoken to over those 15 years, has had any problems with health care. And I don't care what you say.

Canadian Health care > American

If you get stabbed in america, you better have some money on you or else the ambulance will let you swallow your tongue before they drive you to a hospital. Not so in Canada. I would get free transportation and they'd do surgery, or whatever for FREE. And this isn't some stupid second rate medical operation where they use like rusty axes to cut you up.

Having "friends" in Canada doesn't mean you know the system.

 

[A.I.]

Well, othello, I don't see any point in telling you reasons why not to vote for Bush, because if you don't decide that these reasons I give you are true then, there is no point in telling you any.

You're already decided who to vote, right?

 

[Korgoth]

You shoudn't vote for bush because he makes you a drooling crazy lunatic who retorts facts like a personal attack dog, who can't seem to stand it when someone points out a mistake his master has made....

Is that good enough for you?

 

[PvtRyan]

Why not vote Bush? In four years time, he turned the entire world anti-American. He raped the purpose of the UN. He devided the EU with his coaltion of the lapdogs. Enough reason?

 

[Edcrab]

The entire world? Pfft. I'm sure there are plenty of Americans who aren't anti-American. Heh.

It almost seems fashionable to hate America these days- what would you expect, a superpower that can do anything it wants to do. Poor, opressed Arab states have a right to mumble about US foreign policies and extreme capitalism, but it sometimes feels like half of the complainers are in fact some upper/middle-class types jumping on the bandwagon (it's great to find a big obvious scapegoat).

Hell, plenty of people hated the USA before Bush turned up- he certainly didn't help matters, but still...

Then UN is an organisation just as patheticly ineffectual in the world as a whole as anything the US has produced. Rwanda apparently didn't exist for a nice long time, but you can blame the French or Clinton for that. And the EU is a joke anyway; we just don't get along. Germans sometimes object to being the single highest contributer to EU funds, only for less fortunate countries- including Ireland- to get huge payments. The Euro's single rate ensures that countries with different needs to the norm (i.e., Germany's economic boom) get knackered (Ireland's low employment). Vicious circle. Personally, I can see why there's a love-hate relationship between the UK parties wanting alliance/independance.

So, basically, the world is pretty ****ed up with or without Bush. The real question is how quickly, if at all, it'll recover if he's removed from power.

 

[kaf11]

using the 9/11 tradgedy to advance his own administrations unnecessary war on iraq. this in my opinion is one of the biggest, most undeniable hoodwinks ever perpetrated upon the american people. there was no connection between saddam and al qaeda, we were lied to using false intelligence. where the hell are these stockpiles of weapons that posed enough of a direct threat that we sent an army into iraq for? the sanctions were working, and his army and weapons producing capabilities were in shambles yet we sent our soldiers into that mess.

they're who i feel bad for, our overspread troops now facing more danger than they did during the invasion. now iraq is the focal point for every militant arab whos worst nightmare just came true: a super power such as the U.S. enteriing the middle east unjustified and installing a puppet democracy. you think iraq was a terrorist haven before the war? wake up. now instead of only extremists viewing america as a roadblock to their control of the middle east, they have popular support. popular support means money. money goes to terrorists, and in a year or so that money will be used in a much more malicious way than any of us can imagine right now. good job with your war on terror asshole.

 

[Fat Tony!]

Basically it doesnt matter who you vote for in the end since no radical changes will be made, Face it both parties will try and get as much votes as possible from both left and right leaning people therefore they will make policies which suit both. However with Kerry there is no way he will decide to go to war or whatever (he "strongly" opposes the war or whatever and wouldnt want to contradict himself), Bush probably wont either but there is a higher probabity for bush to do it then Kerry.

 

[Edge]

bush's speeches arent just shown to the US population. i was guesstimating.

Your comments earlier made me think the rest of the world was irrelevant on this topic.

i didnt realize that europeans were apart of our country.

well the problem, imo, is that too many people are so uneducated about the war in iraq and still think it was some sort of lie and mistake and what not. the other problem being, that bush hasnt cleared any of that up to a satisfactory extent yet.

This is the issue most Bush supporters can't get past. THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES BESIDES IRAQ. That needs to be followed through but the American people don't wanna hear how Bush did it because we don't believe him. Bush needs to talk about something other than Iraq and 9/11.

 

[Edge]

hey thanks for the somewhat subtle encouragement.

Not subtle. I encourage you to be AMERICAN and have an opinion. Just because I don't agree with your opinion does not mean that I don't respect your opinion.

i believe very strongly in spreading the truth, as i understand it to be, about current events, especially in relation to bush and michael moore. its disheartening when i am immediately labeled as a 'foxnews bushie' or whatever, as such is certainly not the case.

i dont even watch fox news... i do support george bush, but i dont think he is perfect in any way, shape, or form. im just so tired of this trend to hate bush, or 'anybody but bush!', or whatever. its absurd. at least half the people that have responded to this thread clearly have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and its very sad that some will be voting in a few weeks.

Here is where you get yourself in trouble. Contrary to what you believe what you think is not fact. Not saying what anyone believes is fact unless it is proven.

You believe Bush is the best man to run this country. You say you believe in spreading the truth. This is what YOU believe. There are people that believe strapping a bomb to themselves and walking into a crowded mall is a way to incite change... are they right? Most people would say they are crazy. Share your opinions but remember someone out there is going to view you as that crazy bomber. Don't take it personal. Realize you have different opinions and move on

 

[moppe]

Othello, I don't know if the thread is done or not, but listen up.

I've just read through all of these pages, and you honestly just change your thoughts or try to change the subject with "so what? I didn't say he did."

Bush has made alot of mistakes, almost the whole world hates him and nowhere except in the United States there are some lovers left for him.
The situation in Iraq right now is catastrophic, just as it has been in Afganisthan for a long time. Your own country isn't even doing so good, many reasons are already stated, and alot of the country is starting to look like the made up stereotypes from the rest of the world.

You probably think you're special, so smart that can battle all these facts away and are so calm and relaxed in real life.
Wake up, Dick, and smell the ashes.

 

[rkef]

<nothing to see here, move along>

 

[Yakuza]

He blocks stem cell research due to his religious beliefs which is creating big problems for medical research and delaying potential cures for many diseases and injuries by many many years.
.

Stemcell research is going on. maybe not to the extent of what some of you would like but it is still going on.

 

[Yakuza]

What is scarier.

Bush doesn't believe that god speaks to him, or that he does believe god speaks to him?

The basic notion that christians believe that they hear god's voice when they pray is a falacy (as far as my knowledge as a catholic goes). We are taught that prayer froms a relationship between you and the lord, but god never speaks.

However, I dislike the catholic faith.

Yeah I would too, I am a protestant and I have heard the voice of God VIVIDLY.

"Those that have ears to hear, let them listen".

 

[clarky003]

he favours spending 40 billion tax dollar's on an abroad oil pipeline from the caspian sea, rather than channeling that hudge amount of money to the internal infrastructure of America, no mention of this in American media as far as I know only the BBC covered it (wonder why), but it was one of the main reasons for invading Iraq.

whats wrong with that..?

since it was clearly a main reason for invading, why was it purposely played down, no official explaination.

Terrorist threat's where reitorated to subdue the subject (I mean MG who makes a terrorist threat level meter..? how cheesey is that. just a piece of propaganda to keep attention away from the main reasons.

Oil corps drain the planet of more crude oil, creating more profitable investment ... for the elite of the world, Oil price will continue to rise anyway, the pipeline may provide a supply that levels those figures for a few years, but population demand increase will create larger problems and the price predictably will rise faster, so we are not really benifiting from this anyway in the future, but the elite are.

 

[Korgoth]

he favours spending 40 billion tax dollar's on an abroad oil pipeline from the caspian sea, rather than channeling that hudge amount of money to improve the internal infrastructure of America.

Or even upgrades for our troops with boots on the ground, or to train Iraqi security forces faster so we can get the hell out of there quicker. Or on education that he proudly touts as his strong point (erm, wait, didn't he cut education spending, yup he did). Or how about using that money to make our airlines even safer by exanding cargo searches, or how about using it to strengthen and protect our ports? Or how about sending that money for food aide for startving people of the world. Or putting it down on cancer research, or any disease research for that matter. Why not even take that money, and use it to fund projects to find different fuel/energy sources to cut our dependence on foreign oil and keep us out of these wars anyway.

 

[Yakuza]

im sorry but to think that you can hear god is absurd, im jewish and never onceheard god. and were the oldest religion there is i mean were on year 5 thousand something.... and to think that only catholics can hear him would just prove that you are discrimniatory (sp) against all other religions. o ya and i forgot to mention, doesn't cheney have some stock in oil companyS?

What makes you think that just cause you call yourslef Jewish makes you eligibale to hear the voice of God. And just because you havent experianced it first hand doesn't make it Absurd.

 

[CptStern]

why is that when people talk about god speaking to them it's all normal like, yet when I talk about the voice in my head that tells me to kill, people look at me funny? :O

 

[Yakuza]

why is that when people talk about god speaking to them it's all normal like, yet when I talk about the voice in my head that tells me to kill, people look at me funny? :O

1) Any non religious person would not and does not think that God speaking to someone is normal.

2) I wouldn't look at you funny, if you said you had a voice in your head telling you to kill people.

 

[CptStern]

1) Any non religious person would not and does not think that God speaking to someone is normal.

well as long as you dont do both parts I dont see a problem

2) I wouldn't look at you funny, if you said you had a voice in your head telling you to kill people.

I see ...so you want to join me and my talking brain tumour? We plan on ...doing things ....realllly soooooon :rolling:

 

[othello]

Wow, now who's the ignorant one? Um...let's see. Oh yeah! IT'S YOU!

Guess what? I've been living in Canada for about 15 years and for all those years, not me, nor ANYONE i've spoken to over those 15 years, has had any problems with health care. And I don't care what you say.

Canadian Health care > American

If you get stabbed in america, you better have some money on you or else the ambulance will let you swallow your tongue before they drive you to a hospital. Not so in Canada. I would get free transportation and they'd do surgery, or whatever for FREE. And this isn't some stupid second rate medical operation where they use like rusty axes to cut you up.

Having "friends" in Canada doesn't mean you know the system.

i never said that... did you read what i wrote? i specifically said that i was still researching this topic. and you're 'ignorant' to the american way as well. the ambulence would drive you, and the hospital would perform the necesarry procedures... they're not allowed to turn someone away, regardless of if they have money or not. the problem being... you would be charged a giant medical bill that would ruin your credit if you dont have the means to pay it off. :|

 

[othello]

Uh, Kerry is Catholic.

He is just not going to let his faith interfere with the secular law.

ya that was more of a joke lol... his stance is 'im catholic, but i disagree with those views'... rofl...

 

[othello]

Not subtle. I encourage you to be AMERICAN and have an opinion. Just because I don't agree with your opinion does not mean that I don't respect your opinion.



Here is where you get yourself in trouble. Contrary to what you believe what you think is not fact. Not saying what anyone believes is fact unless it is proven.

i dont think that at all... as many people have pointed out, i havent used many links to back up my statements, so they have plenty of reason to not believe. the funny part is, they do the exact same thing (provide a reason or rebuttal with no supporting evidence) and the claim im the closed-minded fool ignoring all the facts that have been presented. what i believe is based in fact and the extensive researching of those facts. as i have stated, there are other topics that i am still researching (stem cell, universal health care, etc) because i dont know much about it.

You believe Bush is the best man to run this country. You say you believe in spreading the truth. This is what YOU believe. There are people that believe strapping a bomb to themselves and walking into a crowded mall is a way to incite change... are they right? Most people would say they are crazy.

and yet, before we removed him, saddam was calling for more and more people to do this thing to harm israelis and americans, and was financialli rewarding the families of anyone who committed such an atrocious act.

Share your opinions but remember someone out there is going to view you as that crazy bomber. Don't take it personal. Realize you have different opinions and move on

its not because they dont agree with me that they are a 'crazy boner'... its because they believe in these ill-contrived conspiracy theories that have been thoroughly debunked by the right AND the left, and that is a foundation for their negative opinion of bush. i dont think thats right. the man deserves more credit than that, imo.

a

 

[Fishlore]

Too bad more people aren't here supporting Bush. They can't be with us today because they actually work for a living.

I'm with you Othello. May logic and reason prevail this November.

 

[OCybrManO]

May logic and reason prevail this November.

Well, we can hope... but I don't think Nader has a chance.

Seriously, blaming half of the country's opinions on a lack of "logic and reason" just because you are sure that you are right (even though if you were wrong, you wouldn't know it... because of the way bias works in interpreting news/facts) is just disturbingly ignorant. I wish presidential campaigns could return to civil discussions of the issues and actual reasons why you should vote for a candidate... instead of a bunch of reasons why you shouldn't vote for the other candidate (which, most of the time, are either lies or half-truths). Once the politicians saw how effective mud slinging was, there was no turning back. Just in this election, there has been an ad from MoveOn.org comparing Bush & Co to Hitler and the Nazi Party... and an official one on George W Bush's web site doing the same thing to several of the more powerful liberals. Then there is how the CARBs (Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, and Bush) go as far as to directly say that if you vote for Kerry we will be attacked. It's just disgusting. Oh no, now I'm a dirty liberal that hates America because I think something is inherently wrong with the way our politicians do business.

 

[Korgoth]

Too bad more people aren't here supporting Bush. They can't be with us today because they actually work for a living.

I'm with you Othello. May logic and reason prevail this November.

Nice dig there. Woohooo hahaha it'd be even funnier if I didn't already have a job working 3rd shift.

Logic? Reason? Bush? All in the same sentence? Does not compute.

 

[OCybrManO]

9/11 --> Osama --> (insert magical link here) --> Saddam --> ATTACK!

NOTE: The above statement is a joke.

 

[othello]

see i told you even if you do it just shows that u are not here to change.

where are you guys getting this idea that i started this topic to sway my view of bush?

bush firstly did not win fair and square... remember florida?? o ya who is governor of florida... hmmmm bush's brother??

no offense, but that sentence alone shows how little you really know.

some facts on 2000 election

recounts would've favored bush

more facts on 2000, bush won popular vote in florida ironically

election 2000 chronology

miami herald claims bush won

cnn claims bush won

bush won again...

and again...

and again...

and again...

and again...

and again...

he's still winning...

and again...

and again...

and again...

and again...

even bbc knows bush won

and he wins yet again...

and again...

how many times must

it be proven that bush

won the 2000 election fair and square

before you people will

get it through your

thick, freaking skulls???

give it a rest already...

bush won!

fair and square!

get over it!

i know my dad and plenty other people not makin over 200 grand a year did not ever once think about voting for that. and **** that im sorry but his tax cuts have not been beneficial to the economy. tell that to my dad who lost his buisness after 9/11 happened, and had to go bankrupt. and no dont say it was his fault b/c it wasn't it was 2 things. 1 the economy and 2 the previous owner lied in the books about how much the store would bring in.

yes... the bush tax cuts have been beneficial to the economy, and are partially responsible for the amazing growth our economy is experiencing/has experienced. im sorry your dad lost his job, but its interesting that he lost it after 9/11. thousands lost thier jobs as well. next thing i know, you'll blame 9/11 solely on bush, thus justifying this whole argument.

besides that just by you being in texas have proved to me that you wont change your mind. texas loves bush, he could ****in make texas a militarized area lock it down and take all your rights away in the name of terrorism and you people would just let him. THATS un patriotic imho.

sorry... my state has nothing to do with anything, just a place of residence. if this has 'proved' something to you, it really shows how little you rely on facts. you want a neat fact? bush's hometown newspaper in crawford, tx endorses kerry. so just stop while your... well... behind, really.

besides that i dont care if kerry is rich! i never said he didn't get the cut... at least he's going to try and give us! the people not even making over probably 50 grand a year the cuts. and you saying that we have more jobs and the economy is the best it's been in 30 yrs is bs. show me these jobs... o wait ya thats right there are none. thats why im sitting here at my computer and not at a job right now! clinton was the best president we've had since jfk, the economy actually was highest then not now...

and i assume you think that the prosperous economy under clinton is somehow related to something he did? clinton inherited a somewhat prosperous economy, with a slew of reforms and economic policies still in effect and that wouldnt show complete results for a few years, that all aided in the good economy during the 90's. you want to see clinton's effect on the economy? the economy was steadily declining in '99 (possibly late '98) and continued to do so when bush took office. obviously bush cant effect the economy immediately, so the blame cant fall on him for the decline in economic prosperity from '99-'01.

then 9/11 happened... not exactly a positive economic stimulant. and yet, despite both of these instances, we now have one of the highest GDP's in years, and the fastest growing economy in 20 years, according to the US Dept of Commerce. granted, its not as good as it was in the 90's... but weve suffered a significant loss. you can hardly blame bush for that. or, judging by the rest of your post, maybe you can... who knows? :|

besides that does the fact that clinton took our deficit and made it into money for us instead of owing money, and now bush is so deep in deficit it's higher then it was before clinton took over mean ANYTHING! i mean your just here to bash on kerry and us people who want a free country, and who want peace and equality.

kerry is a douche, its true... but i have barely even mentioned him. btw, clinton also took a $2 trillion national debt, and turned it into a $6 trillion national debt. wheres your outrage ove the $4 trillion. of COURSE we have a large defecit now... we're at war! we've had to make up for the damage 9/11 caused! making changes to the country isnt free, no matter how bad you socialists want it to be (lol).

i would rather our president spend the money to make the changes he sees to be beneficial, and send our troops into a focused war against OBL, and saddam, and the islamic radical terrorists defending their 'totally unlinked to terror' stomping ground, iraq. then sit in his office, get his dick sucked, let his wife destroy health care and pass various other bills, and then send our troops to kosovo, haiti, somalia, serbia, bosnia, yugoslavia, etc...

you can have your opinion but when the rest of the world including the people in your own country think your wrong, i think you can ****ing admit it. also you were saying how the un was thinking about going into iraq and dissarming them anyways (except much later then bush, and only if they found weapons)well then why the **** didn't we LEAVE IT to the UN?? huh?? why did bush have to take it upon himself to go into iraq before the un?? oh thats right those big ass oil fields that make up what like 75% of the oil in the world mean absolutely nothing right?

no because saddam has been refusing UN inspections since 1991. if he really did disarm, why wouldnt he allow a UN inspections team in for verification. theres a simple answer here, but it seems to be elduing the majority of you people. saddam has ignored over 15 UN resolutions over the last 12 years, what in the world makes you think he wouldve complied? you give saddam too much credit, thats part of the problem. you also give the UN too much credit... the same UN that backs away from sudan, libya, etc... and just acts like nothings going on... bush gave him a strict 6 month ultimatum and threatened to force him to disarm, if he didnt comply. saddam spat on his threat... so now saddam his captured and in jail.

and dont gimmie any shit about how im not sounding political and all that shit, i dont give a shit about sounding political to some rich snob on the internet that wants all the money from the tax cuts for him self. have you ever heard of the PATII?? ooo no u havent?? well see thats a little bill that states basically that people who protest now in the usa (and im talkin about peaceful protests) can be arrested for no reason and can be in jail for up to as long as the president deems fit. and they can also be classified as terrorists, yes people who protest are terrorists, thats why they have signs instead of bombs strapped to their waists? reply plz i wanna hear some more lies, o and by the way i have never ONCE seen farenheit 9/11 and i dont need to, to know what the **** is going on in my country. i live here all i gotta do is open the door to find out.

yeah im filthy rich... i cant get a job anywhere and ive been searching for 9 months straight. i have a fiance and little daughter, and i cant ****ing support them. it feels wonderful not having all this money and enjoying those tax breaks for rich people like me. and on a side note, my dad just got back from baghdad, and my best friend in the whole world is being shipped to tikrit in 2 weeks.

without resorting to insults, it would really benefit you to do some research into these regurgitated, and easily debunked, conspiracy theories you are so ignorantly tossing around.

 

[othello]

cheney have some stock in oil companyS?

no... he was the former CEO of halliburton, our nations largest contractor for over 30 years. a country that has received more than one 'no-bid contract', yet there's some sort of uproar about the one it received in iraq... go figure. just another desperate attmept to justify someone's ill-founded hatred of bush. cheney doesnt profit a dime while in office, and his stock options are already divied up among respectable charities.

 

[othello]

he favours spending 40 billion tax dollar's on an abroad oil pipeline from the caspian sea, rather than channeling that hudge amount of money to the internal infrastructure of America, no mention of this in American media as far as I know only the BBC covered it (wonder why), but it was one of the main reasons for invading Iraq.

OMFG! the reason no american media has covered it is because it is blatant bullshit! unocal had plans to build said pipeline, and another company had plans for a different pipeline that wouldnt go through afghanistan (this is back around mid-90's or so). the irony is, clinton, no bush, supported the unocal pipeline. bush backed the one that had nothing to do with afghanistan and wouldnt benefit him at all. unfortunately for you conspiratists out there, unocal dropped the proposal in 1998. not that it matters, since bush didnt even support theirs. there are current talks and proposals for a pipeline, which will benefit the afghanis somewhere around $2 billion, but unocal is in no way involved.. which theyd have to be in order for bush to receive some sort of financial benefit.

Oil corps drain the planet of more crude oil, creating more profitable investment ... for the elite of the world, Oil price will continue to rise anyway, the pipeline may provide a supply that levels those figures for a few years, but population demand increase will create larger problems and the price predictably will rise faster, so we are not really benifiting from this anyway in the future, but the elite are.

yeah... i honestly wish that our nation didnt rely on crude oil so mercilessly. i saw a ford SUV the other day that was a hybrid, it got 40+ mpg! thats insane! technology like this needs to be implemented on every car (somehow it harnesses the energy used when applying the brakes or something). i am all for alternatives to crude oil. its a good thing this wasnt a war for oil, otherwise id be completely against it.

 

[<RJMC>]

I will give you one reason

NADER RULEZ!!!11

 

[dys4iK]

bush is a very smart man... public speaking is just not one of his strong points. he DID score higher on the SAT than kerry did, and he graduated from harvard law

And yet, many of the people from Harvard criticize his policies regarding the economy.

http://www.openlettertothepresident.org/

Curious!

 

[nicrd]

Wow, now who's the ignorant one? Um...let's see. Oh yeah! IT'S YOU!

Guess what? I've been living in Canada for about 15 years and for all those years, not me, nor ANYONE i've spoken to over those 15 years, has had any problems with health care. And I don't care what you say.

Canadian Health care > American

If you get stabbed in america, you better have some money on you or else the ambulance will let you swallow your tongue before they drive you to a hospital. Not so in Canada. I would get free transportation and they'd do surgery, or whatever for FREE. And this isn't some stupid second rate medical operation where they use like rusty axes to cut you up.

Having "friends" in Canada doesn't mean you know the system.

I've lived all my life in Canada and I totally agree with Kiva128. I've known a lot of people who needed medical operations and everything went fine. Ok, our system is not perfect, but our doctors are very well trained and we have good equipment in excellent condition. Healthcare in canada works very well and thats a fact.

he wont... universal health care is an ideological fallicy. take canada, they are often cited as an example for socialist health care. what you usually dont hear is that you receive generic health care administered by the lowest bidder. this is another issue im steadily researching, and i have a few friends in canada, so thats all im gonna say about it.

imo, universal health care will never be realized in the USA. whether thats bad or good... im still not sure lol

Othello, its great that you want to research about our helathcare system, but dont judge it before you know what your talking about. And your post clearly shows that you have no idea what your talking about.

BTW, like it or not, but Bush does not give a good image of the USA to the rest of the world. America might be one of the most influencial nations in world, but Bush is not helping this.

 

[nicrd]

no... he was the former CEO of halliburton, our nations largest contractor for over 30 years. a country that has received more than one 'no-bid contract', yet there's some sort of uproar about the one it received in iraq... go figure. just another desperate attmept to justify someone's ill-founded hatred of bush. cheney doesnt profit a dime while in office, and his stock options are already divied up among respectable charities.

Othello, you may say whatever you want, but you can't say that the war in Irak is bad for Cheney's wallet.

 

[Owskie]

a lie... where?



more like he believes that religion is an important aspect of a man and his decisions... even if they are a government official.



how... the patriot act? you're gonna have to do better than that.



well that didnt take long lol... good point. however, i dont see this necessarily as negative. he took whatever steps necessary to ensure our safety and to disarm/remove saddam.



lol... wake up, stop drinking the kool-aid. its because of bush that we have the fastest growing economy in 20 years. we had a higher average GDP over the last year than we did over the entire course of the clinton administration.



yeah... it does leave a bit to be desired, doesnt it?



dont forget poland! lmao... we have plenty of allies, still.



we are, essentially, one large family... are we not?



yeah he did do a few things unprofessionally in the debates, i was a bit disappointed. bush is a very good debator, and i think he handled himself rather well, considering the inordinant amount of distortion and lies kerry was spewing. bush did his own exagerrating as well, but kerry took the cake here.



thank god... we're getting somewhere...



*sigh*... why would we want our most incompetent and inactive senator as our 'commander in chief'.



he claimed in the debates that that quote is exaggerated and taken out of context... which it is. before i quote it, i want to note that we never stopped chasing OBL. as i have explained many times in this thread already, saddam was just simply the larger thread. anyway, here is that quote, in its entirety (sp?)... the referenced part is bolded:







thanks for sharing... honestly. as ive said, if you have legitimate reasons for not liking bush... formed, valid opinions, than more power to you. im just trying to clear up what i can.

i have given a few valid reasons, you agree'd with a few, dissagreed with others, i respect your reply .. thank you

 

[othello]

Othello, you may say whatever you want, but you can't say that the war in Irak is bad for Cheney's wallet.

its not my words, its factcheck.org, cnn, etc... the very liberal media is saying cheney doesnt profit from halliburton's involvement in iraq.

 

[Logic]

Othello, do you believe in multiculturalism, or do you find it acceptable to discriminate against people with cultural beliefs different to your own? (I'm not accusing you of it, I just want to know what you think of the question)