Giving up on TF2.

[Darkside55]

Ah, ya quitter. Sentry guns too tough for ya, eh? Son, back in MY day they used to build sentries on top of sentries, so that you'd have four turrets and four rocket launchers barreling down on you, and two dispensers in front of THAT, so that yer 'nades were blocked and your bullets and rockets met with resistance first. Resistance that'd blow up with the force of a detpack! But you didn't worry about that kind of thing, because in my day you were expected to be so tough that you walk into a base alone and destroy the sentries just by LOOKING at them.

I've fought TF2 sentries, and they aren't crap compared to what we slogged against for the past nine years. And you're quitting after what, two, three weeks? Ah, yer a pansy. A PANSY! Soldier rockets take down sentries easy in this game. I haven't even had a chance yet to lament not having frags or nails because every sentry goes down rather easy with just rockets.

And spies in TF2 are far from useless. O spy on gravelpit = easy to make #1 in the ranks. 'Course, you gotta know how to act like a spy, and that's hardly something you pick up in two weeks. I should know, I wrote the book on it.

...No, really, I wrote a book on it. Planet Fortress's "Spy Academy" hosted site. I contributed a lot of information there. Been running with spies since Yoda's 2fort, teaching people the proper way to backstab. But friggin', TF2 spy? Disguise, stab, cloak, disguise, sapper sapper sapper stab cloak disguise...you know before the game came out I was wondering why they took out feign. It's because they'd be TOO overpowered. I don't know what kind of spies you've been playing against, or how you've been playing the class, but they're demons on the battlefield.

Only point I can kinda agree with you on is the respawn timer. I've been playing TF2, and on a whim I decided to go play TFC, and I gotta say, getting out of the gate as fast as you can after you die feels a lot better than waiting around. At least the respawn times don't increase with every death on your team, a la Dystopia. That'd be unbearable.

Anyway, tl;dr: I think you should give the game more playtime than a couple weeks. Maybe that's just me though, I try to give games the benefit of the doubt until I really start to understand and perfect their learning curve (unless it's absolute shit). But you just sound frustrated about how to overcome certain obstacles, so I'd say stick with it. TF2, while not as in-depth as its predecessor, does have a learning curve. If all else fails, dude, and you can't hang with enemy sentries...GO DEFENSE. :thumbs:

 

[jaguar_987]

Jesus Christ dude.

Is it so wrong for someone to be a competitive game player?

I'm sorry if you just join a game to fool around instead of being a valuable asset to the team.
But if you were in say, a clan, they probably wouldn't let that fly and you'd be banned from the server & clan for being an unhelpful asshat.

Exactly... so why moan about other people on a public server? If you want a good co-operative game then get in a clan and play clan games. It just doesn't make sense that people moan at you until you do as they say.

And yea i'm not really a big fan of TF2 anyway, just thought i'd give it a dig as we got it as part of the OB. I'm only really after Portal and Episode 2.

 

[Lucid]

Exactly... so why moan about other people on a public server? If you want a good co-operative game then get in a clan and play clan games. It just doesn't make sense that people moan at you until you do as they say.

And yea i'm not really a big fan of TF2 anyway, just thought i'd give it a dig as we got it as part of the OB. I'm only really after Portal and Episode 2.

Oh well then.

And if you'll kindly take a look at the title of the game...
It is called... TEAM Fortress 2. :thumbs:

 

[Darkside55]

A lot of people say, "There's no 'I' in team."

To which I reply, "But there's 'me'."

Exactly... so why moan about other people on a public server? If you want a good co-operative game then get in a clan and play clan games. It just doesn't make sense that people moan at you until you do as they say.

Indeed. Complaining about how people play in pubs is sort of like going into a bar fight and then expecting gentlemen's boxing rules. People who go off on their own and don't assist, well, that's what they're doing. Sometimes it can be quite effective. Sometimes not. But y'know, to be frankly honest, most pub team tactics are, "rush forward as a unit," and you're still sort of doing your own thing, except there are other people around you. Rarely do you get cohesive teamplay that actually relies on a strategy of support.

 

[Vangald]

This seems un educated so I have compiled some links to help you understand.

Definition of the word GAME as cited from Websters dictionary.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=game

Definition of the word TEAM as cited from Websters dictionary.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/team

Wikipedia article on First Person Shooter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter

 

[jaguar_987]

This seems un educated so I have compiled some links to help you understand.

Definition of the word GAME as cited from Websters dictionary.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=game

Definition of the word TEAM as cited from Websters dictionary.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/team

Wikipedia article on First Person Shooter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter

Excellent! So this is:

GAME - animals under pursuit or taken in hunting; especially : wild animals hunted for sport or food

TEAM - a group of animals: as a : a brood especially of young pigs or ducks

So we're playing an fps about hunting groups of wild animals (probably young pigs or ducks) for food or possibly sport, i'm gonna say food!!

 

[Lobster]

Didnt you already know that? Im still picking fried heavy out of my teeth!

 

[hool10]

I'm pretty sure he was on a server with a few of us (today?). I was his Medic buddy for a bit and he was a Heavy.

Ahh Hool, hopefully you change your mind after our game today. Was mad fun, man.

hool: Have you played when all of the HL2.net clanners are on? It's tons of fun.

Yeah, it is pubs with their lack of teamwork that's the problem. We had to take out some sentry's, (that sweet spot for engineers on dustbowl) for the CP and we needed some heavy firepower. So I spawn as a heavy and then I notice another heavy, lumbering along and ironically, it was Pitz. Then I notice Asus is a Medic healing me. So we go to the right in the tunnels to flank them and go through the gates and go into that wooden structure. So I just say on the mic: "ready to **** some shit up Pitz?". Pitz responds by saying: "Hell yea!". So I take down like 2 teleporters and severly damage a level 3 turret before dying. I think Pitz destroyed the other turret. So I respawn and the entire team is now really pushing forward. I get to the same spot as last time and I start shooting the enemies as they pour out of the spawn entrance. Meanwhile the team is capping the last point and I die but I gave the team enough time to cap the point. We even broke the defense on the final dustbowl level! :O *Oh, on the final level, I was the sniper picking off some guys while the team had to cross the gap to the final CP.

 

[Kadayi]

Indeed. Complaining about how people play in pubs is sort of like going into a bar fight and then expecting gentlemen's boxing rules. People who go off on their own and don't assist, well, that's what they're doing. Sometimes it can be quite effective. Sometimes not. But y'know, to be frankly honest, most pub team tactics are, "rush forward as a unit," and you're still sort of doing your own thing, except there are other people around you. Rarely do you get cohesive teamplay that actually relies on a strategy of support.

I'd argue that TF2 is pretty intuitive in terms of working together and successful teams have players who support each other actively as a matter of course without that much prompting. It's generally where people are dicking around as the wrong class (too many snipers/engineers on push teams being a good example) things tend to go tits up for a team.

 

[Vangald]

Excellent! So this is:

GAME - animals under pursuit or taken in hunting; especially : wild animals hunted for sport or food

TEAM - a group of animals: as a : a brood especially of young pigs or ducks

So we're playing an fps about hunting groups of wild animals (probably young pigs or ducks) for food or possibly sport, i'm gonna say food!!

I consider humans animals so...yes.

 

[Asknoone]

It's all to do with the teams. If your team works well together, you can easily break through the layers of defence.

 

[CyberPitz]

Yeah, it is pubs with their lack of teamwork that's the problem. We had to take out some sentry's, (that sweet spot for engineers on dustbowl) for the CP and we needed some heavy firepower. So I spawn as a heavy and then I notice another heavy, lumbering along and ironically, it was Pitz. Then I notice Asus is a Medic healing me. So we go to the right in the tunnels to flank them and go through the gates and go into that wooden structure. So I just say on the mic: "ready to **** some shit up Pitz?". Pitz responds by saying: "Hell yea!". So I take down like 2 teleporters and severly damage a level 3 turret before dying. I think Pitz destroyed the other turret. So I respawn and the entire team is now really pushing forward. I get to the same spot as last time and I start shooting the enemies as they pour out of the spawn entrance. Meanwhile the team is capping the last point and I die but I gave the team enough time to cap the point. We even broke the defense on the final dustbowl level! :O *Oh, on the final level, I was the sniper picking off some guys while the team had to cross the gap to the final CP.

There's plenty more where that ass kickery came from. It's sad, that my heavy is almost double the amount of time as my second class of engie with a mere 9 hrs.. \=

I think I was destined to be a Heavy.

 

[Kadayi]

There's plenty more where that ass kickery came from. It's sad, that my heavy is almost double the amount of time as my second class of engie with a mere 9 hrs.. \=

I think I was destined to be a Heavy.

I feel your pain Pitz. My clannies pretty much insist I play the heavy because I'm completely relentless at it (Dustbowl FTW). It wasn't what I imagined would be my forte before the beta tbh.

 

[314URBLOC0017]

I find that heavily fortified positions are only really hard to take down when they work as a team. 3 Engineers who cover and repair each others stuff, pyro/heavy who shoots everyone when a spy starts placing sappers (otherwise the spy can just keep placing them which does still destroy buildings). Turrent knockback also makes Ubercharge much less effective. Throw in some medics, snipers and demomen and that is a tough defence.

I was playing a game like that on 2fort; I was one of 3 engis defending the intel, with 3 level 3 turrets and dispensers. We held it for an awful long time, because the enemy kept sending spies, scouts, soldiers, and pyros down indivdually. Then all of a sudden, who should come waltzing into our parlour but a pair of Uber'd heavys and medics. Needless to say it was all over for the engis very quickly at that point.

A lot of people say, "There's no 'I' in team."

But there is an 'I' in 'pie', ... in 'meat pie', ... and 'meat' is an anagram of 'team'...

 

[Kadayi]

Then all of a sudden, who should come waltzing into our parlour but a pair of ?ber'd heavys and medics. Needless to say it was all over for the engis very quickly at that point.

You can't prove I was one of those ubered heavies man...I was in Barcalona at the time ..honest

 

[CyberPitz]

I feel your pain Pitz. My clannies pretty much insist I play the heavy because I'm completely relentless at it (Dustbowl FTW). It wasn't what I imagined would be my forte before the beta tbh.

Yeah, honestly, when playing heavy in TFC, I was ass. I'd always be spy or pyro or something. But when I touch the heavy, I just do...amazingly well. I don't know if it's an, "Everybody is good at it, you newb" or it actually takes a certain touch...but I can't stop playing them. I've been trying to get my other classes ABOVE 3 hours, but it's just so tough.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I was playing a game like that on 2fort; I was one of 3 engis defending the intel, with 3 level 3 turrets and dispensers. We held it for an awful long time, because the enemy kept sending spies, scouts, soldiers, and pyros down indivdually. Then all of a sudden, who should come waltzing into our parlour but a pair of Uber'd heavys and medics. Needless to say it was all over for the engis very quickly at that point.

Lol, I was stuck in a similar game a while ago...we were doing fine until a Spy sapped our turrets just as his Soldier and Heavy (un-ubered, may I add) friends dropped in.

 

[Kadayi]

I don't know if it's an, "Everybody is good at it, you newb" or it actually takes a certain touch...but I can't stop playing them. I've been trying to get my other classes ABOVE 3 hours, but it's just so tough.

Well Pitz, when I'm not HWG I generally medic and trust me there is definitely an art to being a good HWG, as in keeping your medic out of danger and not running out of ammo at a crucial time. The common mistake a lot of bad HWG players make is to wander out into the open field like they are the terminator, where they instantly become incredibly vulnerable to rocket fire, snipers etc and drag their medic out with them, rather than use structures and terrain as a shield, and sidle around them slowly delivering maximum damage with minimal exposure. Also the chain gun burns ammo like there is no tomorrow, so you have to really either know your ammo drop points or make sure you advance upon your kills rapidly to convert their guns to bullets to maintain your assault. Nothing worse as a medic than seeing a HWG resort to trying to kill a barely scratched 3rd level sentry gun with a Shottie as the ubers about to run out, and knowing your both in the line of fire...:|

 

[CyberPitz]

Haha Kadayi, is it sad that I've done that once on accident? I was stuck in a 30 second long straight firefight, trying ot hold everybody off, and to get in position for uber, and the second he hit it, is the second I ran out of ammo, and the SG was just OH SO HAPPY to see me.

 

[Kadayi]

Likewise, I've done it myself, but I rapidly learnt from that mistake and have avoided repeating it since. Running out of ammo is a common issue though as HWG. I make a habit of asking Engineers to put Dispensers down on a Push if they can. Almost as bad as running out of ammo in front of a sentry gun is getting flattened by a train doing an ammo run on Well...that sucks big hairy donkey balls and a half...

 

[PvtRyan]

There is no better FUCK YOU! to a Heavy + Medic combo than a fully charged shot right through the Heavy's skull from a Sniper. BOOM, down you go.

"Thanks for standing still, wanker."

That's what I love about this game, its almost perfect balance. A sniper can take out a Heavy instantly, but only with a fully charged headshot. There's a counter to everything but that counter doesn't make whatever it's countering useless.

 

[Iron_cube]

Im pretty sure a half-charged sniper shot to the head kills a heavy.

 

[CyberPitz]

Likewise, I've done it myself, but I rapidly learnt from that mistake and have avoided repeating it since. Running out of ammo is a common issue though as HWG. I make a habit of asking Engineers to put Dispensers down on a Push if they can. Almost as bad as running out of ammo in front of a sentry gun is getting flattened by a train doing an ammo run on Well...that sucks big hairy donkey balls and a half...

Lol, for some reason I can't hear the train bells. I will ALWAYS walk into it. Hell, 5 times in a row, I got pegged by it. I think I have VERY selective hearing...

 

[Iron_cube]

Lol, for some reason I can't hear the train bells. I will ALWAYS walk into it. Hell, 5 times in a row, I got pegged by it. I think I have VERY selective hearing...

The real fun-material is when a single train takes out half the team on sudden death.

Awesome.

 

[The Brick]

The real fun-material is when a single train takes out half the team on sudden death.

Awesome.

Indeed
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/tharbrick/cp_well0000.jpg

 

[hool10]

One time a heavy was going to wipe me out. So I'm like OH SHI- and then a train just smashes into the heavy. I was just like D:, wow thanks God.

 

[Sudano]

This game is'nt fun anymore tbh. Everybody is now an engineer and constantly produces stalemates. You constantly push your team to the flag or cp but you just can't because they defend a certain point which is usaully before the turret (or they are all engineer). The turret is the main problem for this game. It's:

1. Highly accurate.
2. Its range is big.
3. Its damage is insane at level 2, let alone a 3. In fact if you get blown in the air it will juggle you. Uber charged heavys will get pushed back with just 1 turret. If it's 2 turrets you are flying back.

The only way to counter-act this is the spys sapper. It very slowly saps the turret and most of the time the engineer takes it off. The spy is also very weak. Once somebody finds a spy the class becomes useless. People that notice other teamates going back into the base or anywhere near a sniper or engineer will find the suspicious character. So the spy role is useless completely. I like FF idea of hacking it so it works for your team. The stupid critical hit system is very lame and was highlighted by 1UP as being stupid as well. Scouts can't even run past turrets. If a team is entirely pyro, then the game is really overbalanced. Sometimes the spawn timer lasts till 20s which is way too long. Those are my only gripes about this game. 9/10 I always find myself in a stalemate.

Maybe if they realize this, they will change it in an update. Don't forget the game isn't really out yet...

 

[Crispy]

The TF2 guys have got almost everything right in the game through extensive playtesting both internally and by members of the public, and now through the beta. Steam records all the stats you see on your profile and more, and they monitor this information to make sure the balance is just right. The game has only been played for a few weeks now, different people learn the game at different paces. Believe me, or better still trust in Valve, there are plenty of counters to the SG and the balance in this game is very tight.

My only gripe is the spawntimes and the round times, but hopefully there are some server variables that people will experiment with to get it just right.

 

[alehm]

My only gripe is the spawntimes and the round times, but hopefully there are some server variables that people will experiment with to get it just right.

Once you play on a server with instant spawn you will realize how unbalanced it makes the team when you are trying to get the last spawn point in front of the enemy base and as soon as you kill someone they come charging right back out with full health and ammo but once you get killed you have to run all the way back across the map. Suddenly the capture point maps all end in stalemates and the fun level drops.

 

[Absinthe]

That was my concern.

The respawn times should be reduced, as I feel 20 seconds is way too long. But they shouldn't be abandoned entirely.

 

[freakyflor]

the problem with the games with classes is always once ever1 knows what class is the best every1 always chooses that class anyway tf2 rulez

 

[Absinthe]

And what class is the best?

 

[Stigmata]

The Spy, because he's every class!

 

[CyberPitz]

I don't think there is a "best" class...they all have their ups and downs.

 

[Crispy]

Once you play on a server with instant spawn you will realize how unbalanced it makes the team when you are trying to get the last spawn point in front of the enemy base and as soon as you kill someone they come charging right back out with full health and ammo but once you get killed you have to run all the way back across the map. Suddenly the capture point maps all end in stalemates and the fun level drops.

That's not what I'm suggesting, so don't put words of stupid in my mouth.

The current spawntimes are HORRIBLE for Hydro, especially for smaller playercounts. They simply do not scale well, and there's been no attempt to make them scale to the amount of players in the game. A simple solution would be to cluster team sizes into groups. I.e.:
1 < players per team < 7 : winning = 4s; losing = 8s
7 < players per team : winning = 6s; losing = 10s

You see, at the moment TF2 is hugely popular and it's hard to find a server that's not full. But in a few months' time when the buzz has died down, some new multiplayers come out and people turn to other things you'll get a situation where you might have to join a half empty server. At the moment half-empty servers can be dominated by getting the first couple of kills and pushing for the last control point. This isn't what TF2 is about, so it needs to be addressed.

If I were to make a suggestion it would be to bring the winning and losing teams' spawn times closer to eachother. As it is, if you're losing you're penalised with almost double the spawntime as the winning team, which is ridiculous when you take into account the winning team have half the distance to travel to the next control point. When Scouts can cover the entire map in less than 15 seconds (less than 10 for Hydro) and that's how long it takes defenders to respawn, you know there's something not right.

I'd also change sudden death so it's melee only for all classes, at least that would be fun and not a war of attrition with a 3 minute time limit.

 

[NeLi]

I apologize for not reading the entire thread, but seriously? Engineers? They are your reason for quitting? Go demoman and ruin all their shit with 4 sticky bombs.

I mean, really, most of the time you see one team just throwing themselves at the enemies, hoping for the best. If you have a problem with engineers, go either spy or demo and thwart them. It's not that hard. At all. Don't give up so easily.

 

[Absinthe]

I'd also change sudden death so it's melee only for all classes, at least that would be fun and not a war of attrition with a 3 minute time limit.

If there's one thing that really annoys me, it's that. It's sudden death! Go kill each other, for **** sake. So many people just pansy around like jackasses. It especially sucks if you're taken out early and you're forced to watch these people camping out at their bases.

 

[PvtRyan]

Engineers should simply be forced to become soldiers/scouts/whatever for the duration of Sudden Death. I like Sudden Death though, it should definitely stay. Just the sentry camping is annoying.

 

[DjBourgeoisie]

Engineers should simply be forced to become soldiers/scouts/whatever for the duration of Sudden Death. I like Sudden Death though, it should definitely stay. Just the sentry camping is annoying.

Go spy, avoid contact till your team is ready to make the last push into the turret farmed area and sap their shit while your team attacks, game over. Sounds like people with complaints about gameplay are playing on some bad servers, find better ones and it's a whole new game.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I apologize for not reading the entire thread, but seriously? Engineers? They are your reason for quitting? Go demoman and ruin all their shit with 4 sticky bombs.

I mean, really, most of the time you see one team just throwing themselves at the enemies, hoping for the best. If you have a problem with engineers, go either spy or demo and thwart them. It's not that hard. At all. Don't give up so easily.

Heh, when it comes to ctf, the only thing I do is find out where they are with cloak and avoid them and their turrets (or destroy if the engineer and his shotgun aren't around). It's a bitch when him and the turret both camp in the briefcase room. They really should give the turrets more delay, this is near instant.