Giving up on TF2.

hool10

hool10

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This game is'nt fun anymore tbh. Everybody is now an engineer and constantly produces stalemates. You constantly push your team to the flag or cp but you just can't because they defend a certain point which is usaully before the turret (or they are all engineer). The turret is the main problem for this game. It's:
  1. Highly accurate.
  2. Its range is big.
  3. Its damage is insane at level 2, let alone a 3. In fact if you get blown in the air it will juggle you. Uber charged heavys will get pushed back with just 1 turret. If it's 2 turrets you are flying back.
The only way to counter-act this is the spys sapper. It very slowly saps the turret and most of the time the engineer takes it off. The spy is also very weak. Once somebody finds a spy the class becomes useless. People that notice other teamates going back into the base or anywhere near a sniper or engineer will find the suspicious character. So the spy role is useless completely. I like FF idea of hacking it so it works for your team. The stupid critical hit system is very lame and was highlighted by 1UP as being stupid as well. Scouts can't even run past turrets. If a team is entirely pyro, then the game is really overbalanced. Sometimes the spawn timer lasts till 20s which is way too long. Those are my only gripes about this game. 9/10 I always find myself in a stalemate.
 
You're "giving up" yet rated it a 9/10.

:|
 
i havnt been on the third stage of dustbowl in ages cos of that stupid wall on the 2nd stage CP where engineers just line up the sentries and own shop.

the thing that needs changing about sentries isnt their power or range, its the fact you can shit one up to level 3 in about 30 seconds if youre near a ammo box and dispensor. you should have to WORK to get a level 3 sentry gun, either through kills or time or a combo of each.
 
delusional said:
No, they didn't find enough time to code the bots in the ten years of development.

EDIT: ooohh 700 posts
Click to expand...

****, I have dial up, I was hoping it would have bots.

Plus, bots could have been a solution to the OP's problem.

Bots are good to use IMO.


Maybe they will update it like the did CS:S....
 
I only play TF2 when I'm playing with someone else that I know. This game is about cooperation. The noobs really ruin it. Even more than in css because in css it's possible to do something on your own, unlike TF2. But teaming up with people is when this game really shines, and I enjoy it more than any MP game I've ever played.
 
Co-operate. Send a spy in. Even if he can't destroy the sentries before engineers remove the sappers, the sentry is disabled meanwhile meaning that soldiers and such can destroy them.

Haven't found engineers a real problem yet tbh, even without such intricate co-operation it's easily possible to destroy turrets. Only place where I don't like engineers is sudden death.
 
These things don't ruin the game for me but I definitely can understand where the OP is coming from...
 
Uhh... The spy can be ****ing lethal if you play it right. Yeah, if you're running straight into your enemies or acting suspiciously, you're screwed. You can't always rely on your cloak. You have to actually pretend you're an ally to the opposing team. That means:

1) Acting like the class you're disguised as.
2) Backpedaling. If you're running headfirst into the enemy stronghold, you're screwed.
3) Discretion. You're not going to be going on killing sprees. Half the time I see spies blowing their cover just for a quick backstab only to get annihilated. However, there have been many times where I'd bide my time and wait for the right moment, eventually stalking up behind enemy groups and knifing them all, one by one, entirely clueless up until the last second. Surprisingly, I could still be top of my team like this.

I do agree that the respawn timer seems too long, but reducing it too much would make some maps unplayable. That last cap would take ages. And while I do think sentries need adjusting, they don't break the game. Except on gravelpit... *shudder*
 
Dr0ndeh said:
i havnt been on the third stage of dustbowl in ages cos of that stupid wall on the 2nd stage CP where engineers just line up the sentries and own shop.

the thing that needs changing about sentries isnt their power or range, its the fact you can shit one up to level 3 in about 30 seconds if youre near a ammo box and dispensor. you should have to WORK to get a level 3 sentry gun, either through kills or time or a combo of each.
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Yeah that's the other thing. You can take the entire round to take down one turret only for it to be replaced by another just like that. Don't even attempt the 3rd one. At the very end of the second cap point the turrets reach that far away. Usually there is about 3 turrets with snipers. *Hitting the building with your wrench makes it build faster too.
 
I think the game is perfect but thats just me. I rarely have a hard time taking out turrets. Demos are perfect for that. We had a team one time of 8 engis all building turrets we had a pyro in between spamming fire without ever reloading and a heavy spamming entrances. We ended up holding the map for a good 15 mins then they had like 5 demos come in and take out EVERYTHING. Funniest game of all time.
 
I think your problems are more to do with shitty teams than anything else. The engineer is a very powerful class when they're dug in, that's a given. I'll also concede that turrets could do with a slight delay on their targeting time (but should be given additional health to compensate for that).

However, a combination of ubers, spies and general harrassment from demomen and assault classes can break down most defences. The only problem is that I, like you, am finding it hard to get that level of cooperation from my teammates when we're faced with a well fortified team. A lot of the time on pubs you'll take out an important sentry and your team will take no notice of your announcement, just carry on with their little personal quests, giving the enemy engy enough time to get it up again. Ubers are a complete lottery as well - even if you're lucky enough to uber a guy who doesn't choose to sit around sniffing his ball-sweat, you're unlikely to have the kind of team that understands they need to follow behind and surge with you if the uber isn't going to be a waste of time.

It's interesting to see the comment about individual play in TF2 vs CSS. The problem is that considering the level of teamwork on offer atm, individual play is often the only way to go. I've lost count of the amount of times that:
  • I've capped whole series of CP with none of my teammates in sight and very little enemy defence (on packed servers).
  • I've hung back in defence for ages only to get fed up and push forward, managing to cap the contested CPs all by myself, again with little resistance.
  • By individual effort, I've done massive damage to a fortified team's defences and, on my first try, managed to almost break through where everyone else on my team failed - only for my team not to capitalise.
The question to be asked in all of these cases is: where the hell was my team and what were they doing??

One time in sudden death, the clock was counting down and I, as medic, had an uber ready to go. All my surviving teammates were engineers and snipers though, content to sit out the stalemate and maybe break their personal headshot/sentry kill record should the opportunity present itself. With 10 seconds left, still noone wanted to move forward with me despite my requests. So I ubered myself and charged through the enemy midfield to get to the CP, took out a defending soldier with the syringe gun, and had the CP half capped before I was inevitably mown down by a Sascha. Just a little help could have swayed the game. It's not like I'm even a skilful player, it just that people seem to be so half arsed about teamwork.

Yeah, I don't like the respawn timer either. I'm not convinced it does much for the game except frustrate people. I think turrets could be altered sliiightly. Some classes could do with mild adjustment maybe. But generally, the game balance is okay and the problems you're encountering are due to the fact that most people SUCK at team play.

(BTW, of course a scout can't run past a sentry...!! WTF? There's no way they should be able to! They can already run away from every class in the game)
 
The gameplay is great imo.

Its all about the players.

Either ****ing counter-strike elitists or "veterans" who spit out their little signature word everytime they get a kill.
 
Okay, demoman pipebombing an area during an uber charge then detonating afterwards will clear out any sentry problems you could ever have.

Also, it sounds like you don't understand the sapper... it instantly disables the gun and slowly destroys it. So guess what you're supposed to do... kill the god damn engineer with your knife before he gets his couple wrenches in to take off the sapper. If he's ducked in a corner, jump on top of him and stab in the head.

And don't even whine about a team full of pyros... unless you're on the pyro team. Otherwise... idiot.
 
Yep I find TF2 perfectly balanced.

Teamwork definitely is the answer to any problems. Basically i just join up to games that have at least a couple of ppl in my friend's list in them. And then work together switching betweeen medic/heavy spy/soldier pyro/demo combo's to take out any defense.

Seriously complaining about how people are so stupid that they all go sniper/eng is kind of silly. You could have one person go spy and go invis to get to intel and then drag it up to the top (prob get done by sentry) and then just spam scouts at the intel and you'd take it easy. Seen it done time and time again. Stalemates are hilarious though. "You're all losers!" nice way to encourage people to stop being dumb.
 
hool: Have you played when all of the HL2.net clanners are on? :) It's tons of fun.
 
I'm pretty sure he was on a server with a few of us (today?). I was his Medic buddy for a bit and he was a Heavy.
 
Ahh Hool, hopefully you change your mind after our game today. Was mad fun, man.
 
I find that heavily fortified positions are only really hard to take down when they work as a team. 3 Engineers who cover and repair each others stuff, pyro/heavy who shoots everyone when a spy starts placing sappers (otherwise the spy can just keep placing them which does still destroy buildings). Turrent knockback also makes Ubercharge much less effective. Throw in some medics, snipers and demomen and that is a tough defence.

However the way I see it it should be really hard to get past when a team works together really well like that. Generally I find that teams that have at least a couple of people using their microphones to better articulate plan's, needs and strategies make a huge difference.
 
Lol it's just come out, most people are just toying about with it at the moment.

I started playing the other day for the 1st time and my team mates were moaning I wasn't doing something for them. Needless to say, I laughed and reminded them we were playing a game :p
 
jaguar_987 said:
I started playing the other day for the 1st time and my team mates were moaning I wasn't doing something for them. Needless to say, I laughed and reminded them we were playing a game :p
Click to expand...

Assuming they weren't being unreasonable, you should be doing something for the team. Especially if they're requesting you to fill a role your class should play.

I'm personally willing to take one for the team on some pubs. My favorite classes are the sniper and engineer. But if my team isn't getting its shit together, I'm willing to play a medic, a heavy, or a scout. And I will bark like mad for the cooperation required. Although few things can be more infuriating than switching to one part of the heavy/medic combo and still be waiting five minutes later for somebody else to put their statwhoring on hold for two seconds to help out.

I imagine a lot of these problems will fade out once most players get a fair percent of their achievements earned.
 
hool10 said:
The only way to counter-act this is the spys sapper.
Click to expand...
No.






- Soldier rockets (2-4 in quick succession will take out the sentry even if the Engy is repairing)
- 1.5 hits from a fully-charged sniper if the Engy isn't repairing (if he is 1 shot will take out the Engy)
- Use a demoman (3-5 pipe bombs simultaneously detonated will destroy it outright)

So that's 4 out of 9 classes that can counter the sentry gun.

P.S. That's a level 3 sentry. It takes time to get an L3 sentry up, so the best solution by far is to be more aggressive and push onto the Engineers early on.
 
We should remember that Team Fortress 2 is still in beta version. The official release is October 10th, and I think that in the following month it will be heavily patched to find the right balance.
 
The "problem" with engineers goes both ways. They are well and truly a team oriented class. When engineers have the support of their team, they are incredibly powerful, and when their enemies do not respond with the same level of teamwork, they seem unstoppable.

A recent counter example I can think of is when on 2Fort I snuck into the enemy intelligence room and built and exit teleporter. A 2nd engineer used my teleporter and together we fortified the hell out of that room, and he built a set of teleporters traveling in the opposite direction. Unfortunately neither of knew we couldn't teleport with the flag at the time... Anyways, the moral of this story is that nobody cared. About 3 or 4 of the enemy team noticed (on a full 24 player server), and they kept attacking us for about 10-15mins until they finally took us down, and in that time our entire team ignored every call for backup we made. We achieved nothing, and in the end lost the round 0-1.

Another common engineering failure is on maps such as Well and Granary, where cap rooms feature multiple choke points that require 3 or more engineers to lock down, and large open areas with plenty of cover for spires to skirt around as they reactivate their disguises. Without backup from their team, a single good spy can often completely shutdown all 3 engineers with relatively little effort. As your own team is constantly streaming past you with their endless respawning, it's very difficult to spot the single spy in the group of 3 running from your spawn, past the choke-point you've defended, and out into the battle. If you're not paying attention, you might not even see which one dumped the sappers all over your gear as they wandered out to murder the 2 people they were with.
 
jaguar_987 said:
I started playing the other day for the 1st time and my team mates were moaning I wasn't doing something for them. Needless to say, I laughed and reminded them we were playing a game :p
Click to expand...

Yes a game that relies on people acting together to succeed, so I'd say they were right to moan if you were stood around with your hand down your underpants instead of assisting. :dozey:

As for the OPs post. Trust me with the right team balance there isn't any defence that can't be overcome if you put your mind and determination into it (a lot of people haven't cottoned onto the fact that changing your class mid-match is sometimes essential). One of the more telling interviews I read with the Valve guys pretty much hinted at the fact that the tactics they are witnessing happening in the beta are all things that they have seen beforehand during the internal testing and are embryonic in terms of how far things went during the testing.
 
Personally I think your team isn't cooperating in their offense. Demo's, spy's, and soldiers should be able to take out the sentry guns easy. Just keep a pyro near by so you have some one to attack anyone who tries to come up behind you. Medics are also nice. Maps like 2fort may only need 3 individuals on intel defense in the basement. If that is broken through then they can inform the others and everyone can try and stop the offender before he escapes if they are still in the base. Larger maps a sniper can take out a sentry quick due to his range.

It comes down to planning what class to use for a situation and getting someone to watch your back while you are taking down sentries. Either you are your teammates are not playing correctly IMHO.
 
Kadayi Polokov said:
Yes a game that relies on people acting together to succeed, so I'd say they were right to moan if you were stood around with your hand down your underpants instead of assisting. :dozey:
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So, let me get this straight, you only enjoy playing this game when you are winning?

Sorry if I wasn't the uber TF2 geek yet, like I said the game has just come out and a lot are experimenting.

I'll play the game any way I like to thanks lol
 
There's a special place in hell reserved for people that end sentences with "lol".
 
its not so much about winning as its about working together like a well oiled machine.

If you dragged your heels in basketball or soccer the result would be the same, a team pissed off at you. Besides, experimenting? It doesn't take much more than 10 minutes to find out what each class does. Even a total newbie should be pulling his/her weight after a few games.
 
Flyingdebris said:
its not so much about winning as its about working together like a well oiled machine.

If you dragged your heels in basketball or soccer the result would be the same, a team pissed off at you. Besides, experimenting? It doesn't take much more than 10 minutes to find out what each class does. Even a total newbie should be pulling his/her weight after a few games.
Click to expand...

Agreed. We can all get cheesed off when our team loses the Team Fortress 2 World Cup.
 
jaguar_987 said:
So, let me get this straight, you only enjoy playing this game when you are winning?
Click to expand...

No I enjoy playing the game when it's challenge and the team pulls together collectively. If it's a win 'great', if it's a narrow loss 'ah well next time, UL', if it's a complete capitulation it's a fairly justified 'wtf are you guys doing ffs?'

jaguar_987 said:
Agreed. We can all get cheesed off when our team loses the Team Fortress 2 World Cup.
Click to expand...

So your idea of fun is being soundly whipped? Sounds like your playing the wrong kind of game
 
The game is still a beta and people expect it to be perfect... BAH!
 
Ah, yes. If you expect cooperation and teamwork in a team-based game, you're clearly being an antsy nerd. After all, it's just a game! Right?

Balls to that. It's one thing to lose in a tight, competitive game. It's another to consistently lose over and over again because your team won't pick up the slack and actually produce some semblance of organization. That's not fun, and it's certainly a detriment to my good time.

Anybody who can sit through that kind of BS round after round and still say "lol it's just a game d00dz" is a ****ing idiot.
 
jaguar_987 said:
Agreed. We can all get cheesed off when our team loses the Team Fortress 2 World Cup.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ dude.

Is it so wrong for someone to be a competitive game player?

I'm sorry if you just join a game to fool around instead of being a valuable asset to the team.
But if you were in say, a clan, they probably wouldn't let that fly and you'd be banned from the server & clan for being an unhelpful asshat.
 
I don't even know why one would bother picking up TF2 if they didn't have the intention to play in a team and simply wanted to do whatever the shit they wished. It just annoys other players and you're certainly not getting your money's worth.

Experimenting is all well and good, but it's entirely possible to get a feel for everything while also playing the game.
 
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