God doesnt exist

Originally posted by Shuzer
..and what Bible is that? Standard King James/NIV? I'm just making sure you weren't reading the mormon bible, or something
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Standard King James, there isnt a big difference between the versions of the bibles the only thing that is different with the king james one is that he changes words because he was so "important". For example, he changed sky to heaven. But im not basing the contradictions on those words.
 
Originally posted by LoneDeranger
i hate religion threads. :(
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Agreed.

And yes, there isn't a big difference between versions of The Bible. However, if you go from say, NIV to Today's New International Version, it's horribly distorted and all together inaccurate.

I was moreso making sure you weren't reading the mormon bible, or the jehova's witness' version, or something.
 
Ok this might not be all too comprehensible ill add on to the other contradictions in a bit, im just trying to get what ive already put down in a thread a week ago out:

First is this:
Well there is many parts in the bible that has God directly commanding killings and slaughters heres some exerpts. I'll give you the pages and all that so you can look these up:

Look at this quote from the bible:
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girla who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Numbers 31. 17-18)

He demanded and sactioned human sacrifices (Leviticus 21. 28-29; Judges 11. 29-40; Samuel 21. 1-9). He killed the first bron of every Egyptian family (Exodus 12. 29). He sactioned slavery (Exodus 21. 2-6; Leviticus 25. 44-46) and the selling of one's daughter (Exodus 21.7). He commanded the killing of witches (Exodus 22.18), death by heresy (Exodus 22.20), death for violating the sabbath (Exodus 31. 14-15), death for cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20.9), death for adultery (Leviticus 20.10), death for blasphemy (Leviticus 24.16), and death by stoning for unchasity at the time of marriage-a penalty imposed only upon women (Deuteronomy 22. 20-21).


Thats pretty crazy for a religion that says God will forgive for sins and uphold honor and such isnt it???
Heres another:

Galileo (sp?) proved that the world was only one planet out of our solar system and that we revolved around the sun. The catholic church noticed that if this was true then it would prove their religion wrong, so they imprisoned him and threatened him with torture. He was told to say he was wrong, or else be tortured and he did. But then many years later its proven again. All religion does is adapt to whatever science proves and says "oh it actually says it right here! It was just a metaphor/misinterpetation!" when they know damn well it wasnt, samething with many saying that a certain scripture shouldnt be taken literally or should be dismissed all together. People then say this is a "mistake" ha such a mistake for someone to think for himself then be a sheep isnt it?

Ill get more hold on...
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
Agreed.

And yes, there isn't a big difference between versions of The Bible. However, if you go from say, NIV to Today's New International Version, it's horribly distorted and all together inaccurate.

I was moreso making sure you weren't reading the mormon bible, or the jehova's witness' version, or something.
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Well yes there is a big difference because scriptures are thrown out or changed to adapt to science so it can look as if science is running right along with it, they do this by saying this is a metaphor and such.
 
Not sure what you've been reading, but, the KJV/NIV hasn't changed in a long long time. No verses are thrown out to "conform" to science, not as they adapted. However, some versions of the bible (such as TNIV) are changed to be politcally correct, or some crap, and aren't worth reading at all.
 
Originally posted by mchammer75040
BAH! Not flaming but seriously me being athiest has nothing to do with me not wanting to believe in god like others do. Its because every god represented has been discredited by philosophy and science. The bible itself has so many contradictions that you cant take it serious. I personally believe the universe is self-governing, and even if there is a God id rather have my freedom to think for myself and be damned to hell then be just a sheep and go to heaven.
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You misunderstood me. I don't mean that what’s sad is that you don't believe in God like others do, I mean you don't believe in all of the others who have claimed to have seen God and experienced him. You don't believe people when they say they have seen God for themselves. You have to think they are all either crazy or liars.

God has not been discredited by science and philosophy. Quite the contrary, I believe that philosophy and science make the belief in a god or deity of some sort much easier to accept. Science and philosophy cannot explain our origins, nor can they explain the origins of this universe. We as humans seem to have problems understanding the fundamentals of things. For example, we keep going back farther and farther into time trying to explain the origins of the universe, and we have reached the big bang theory. But what about before that? And if you find the answer to that question then you must ask what came before that? It's a never-ending cycle of questions that can't reach an end unless there is something like God in existence. It's something human beings cannot possibly comprehend, eternity, since we have nothing to compare it to. I believe it begins with God, and he exists in the realm of eternity where everything happens as one and time is not a concept of any importance.

The bible does contradict itself if interpreted as it was meant to be when first written all those years ago. Some books were written by tribes of people and therefore condemn such things as homosexuality, since being a homosexual would destroy a small tribe. Others are written as giant metaphors. Some books go against the things written in other books. The thing to remember is that not every book was some sort of divine revelation from God on paper. Some are strictly stories of ancient people that only make sense when taken as a whole. The point is not to take them on their own, but to interpret their themes into modern day life. You have to look at it and think about what life was like when each individual book was written. This is what theology is all about. You have to remember we are sophisticated people compared to the people of 2,000 years ago and God would reveal himself to us in different ways today, in ways we could understand.

God made men and gave them free will. You have it, I have it. Why do you think the existence of God means destruction of free will? God knows all because he exists in the realm of eternity, not because he is guiding the events of our lives. He lets us do whatever we want, giving us pointers here and there in the form of our conscience.
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
Not sure what you've been reading, but, the KJV/NIV hasn't changed in a long long time. No verses are thrown out to "conform" to science, not as they adapted. However, some versions of the bible (such as TNIV) are changed to be politcally correct, or some crap, and aren't worth reading at all.
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They have as far as i know, or theologians take the words and twist them in arbitrary ways to make them have different meaning but now ill type up how the concept of God is one big contradiction. Might be awhile though.
 
I honestly could care less. I hate religion threads. I don't care to debate with you.
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
I honestly could care less. I hate religion threads. I don't care to debate with you.
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I agree also...no point in arguing about someones beliefs.Let them believe what they want to.No one knows whose right or whose wrong....thats what faith is for.
 
I believe in God, and enjoy talking about religion...sometimes.

However; I find the opening comment innappropriate.
There's no reason for you to state your opinion as doctrine. Keep such rude comments to yourself, Terminator.
 
First of all God cannot be omnipotent, omni benevolent and omniscience. Omniscience, contradicts both the above mentioned attributes as well as freewill. If God has omniscience, which means he knows all-of total knowledge, then he knows exactly where your going when you die. Meaning that going to church or praying to repent sins would be meaningless since its already decided before you are even concieved! And it actually says this in the bible! That means we are not responisible for anything we do, we might as well sit back and wait it out.
And if you say there is "free events" which we make choices at (which this has been brought up many times before) then that proves he is not omniscience, and if he is there can be no such thing as free events or he would know the outcome of those anyway.

It also contradicts omnipotence. If God knows the future with infallible certainty, he cannot change it. Note i didnt say he would need to because of having knowledge of it but that if he could it would automatically limit his power. If God can change the future, however, he cannot have infallible knowledge of it prior to its actual happening-in which case he cannot be omniscient. These attributes cant be twisted to ones liking its either he has these or doesnt.

Also take omnibenolvence. The idea of him being all good, this contradicts the above as well. If God doesnt know of evil he is not omniscient. If he does know of evil but cant prevent it, then he is not omnipotent. If God knows of evil and can stop it but chooses not too, he is not omnibenevolent. Meaning he probably gets off somehow on our pain and suffering.

Also back on the subject of omnipotence, there can be no obstacles to divine omnipotence. No difficulties that God must overcome because God's "will" is sufficent enough to produce any effect. The necessity of employing means to accomplish an end is the consequence of limited power; thefefore, God cannot be said to employ means in any sense. We also realize that God cannot be said to act in any manner, because actions require only a being who must resort to means in order to accomplish a given end. Nor can God be said to have any kind of purpose, because "purpose" entails unfulfilled desires or goals and these cannot apply to a omnipotent being.


So im going to jump ahead, predict someones reply to this and react before it happens to save me time. Someone will soon say God is "unknown" uncomprehinsible to the human mind. In doing this you collapse into agnosticism, saying that you believe in some unknowable being doing something unknowlable in a unknowable way. This is to admit one does not know what one is talking about!
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
I honestly could care less. I hate religion threads. I don't care to debate with you.
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Then why did you ask me to show these contradictions??? Im just now showing how the concept of God is contradictive i havent even gotten to how science proves it wrong! Come on now you asked dont shy away...(im not flaming)
 
Just so everyone knows, I wasn't trying to press my views on anyone. I'm just stating them. You can believe what ever you want to believe.

edit: Just because God knows what's going to happen does not mean he made it happen that way. I don't believe in destiny or fate for the individual. God has an active role in the world, but he does not command the outcome of events. As I said before, God exists in the realm of eternity, and sees everything as one. To him there is no past present or future, everyting is the same. For God the world has only just begun and at the same time it has already ended. This is key to undersatnding God. His power is in his ability to see the "big picture" while our field of view is very narrow because of time. Some of the stuff God does, and the way he acts is a mystery to humans, right now. It's not beyond our minds, we are just in the improper realm of existence to understand it.
 
Originally posted by Tr0n
I agree also...no point in arguing about someones beliefs.Let them believe what they want to.No one knows whose right or whose wrong....thats what faith is for.
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Thats not the point i just proved something and now hes shying away from it, he asked me to show these contradictions if i have to type up 15 pages of shit to show this i will, if he didnt want to hear it he shouldnt have said so.
 
It seems theists have a problem with the concept that someone might not have chosen the beliefs they have. Beliefs about how life and the universe work aren't things you can select at your fancy, they are the simple truths as you see it. I can not simply turn on my god believing swtich, just as I can not start believing in Santa Claus again, it just violates what I know to be true.

I think that many christians wont accept that being an atheist isnt something you choose, because to them if someone is an atheists by no fault of their own then an innocent is going to hell, which would through a monkey wrench in their system. As far as what I have seen from some christians, they actually believe that we believe their god exists, but that we deny his existance so we can feel superior and get away with "sin's". ( this idea is complete crap since if we believed in the god in the first place we would know that denying him would only send us to hell)
 
Originally posted by qckbeam
You misunderstood me. I don't mean that what’s sad is that you don't believe in God like others do, I mean you don't believe in all of the others who have claimed to have seen God and experienced him. You don't believe people when they say they have seen God for themselves. You have to think they are all either crazy or liars.

God has not been discredited by science and philosophy. Quite the contrary, I believe that philosophy and science make the belief in a god or deity of some sort much easier to accept. Science and philosophy cannot explain our origins, nor can they explain the origins of this universe. We as humans seem to have problems understanding the fundamentals of things. For example, we keep going back farther and farther into time trying to explain the origins of the universe, and we have reached the big bang theory. But what about before that? And if you find the answer to that question then you must ask what came before that? It's a never-ending cycle of questions that can't reach an end unless there is something like God in existence. It's something human beings cannot possibly comprehend, eternity, since we have nothing to compare it to. I believe it begins with God, and he exists in the realm of eternity where everything happens as one and time is not a concept of any importance.

The bible does contradict itself if interpreted as it was meant to be when first written all those years ago. Some books were written by tribes of people and therefore condemn such things as homosexuality, since being a homosexual would destroy a small tribe. Others are written as giant metaphors. Some books go against the things written in other books. The thing to remember is that not every book was some sort of divine revelation from God on paper. Some are strictly stories of ancient people that only make sense when taken as a whole. The point is not to take them on their own, but to interpret their themes into modern day life. You have to look at it and think about what life was like when each individual book was written. This is what theology is all about. You have to remember we are sophisticated people compared to the people of 2,000 years ago and God would reveal himself to us in different ways today, in ways we could understand.

God made men and gave them free will. You have it, I have it. Why do you think the existence of God means destruction of free will? God knows all because he exists in the realm of eternity, not because he is guiding the events of our lives. He lets us do whatever we want, giving us pointers here and there in the form of our conscience.
Click to expand...

The God of Christianity has been disproved by both science and philosophy, they have not made it easier. Theologians twist things to make them run along with it, the perfect example is the galileo situation that i posted a page or so back, so go read that if you care too. I have tons of other things to bring out if you want me too. Im not trying to impose anything on anyone, but when someone asks me ill bring out all i know on the subject.
 
Originally posted by Insid
It seems theists have a problem with the concept that someone might not have chosen the beliefs they have. Beliefs about how life and the universe work aren't things you can select at your fancy, they are the simple truths as you see it. I can not simply turn on my god believing swtich, just as I can not start believing in Santa Claus again, it just violates what I know to be true.

I think that many christians wont accept that being an atheist isnt something you choose, because to them if someone is an atheists by no fault of their own then an innocent is going to hell, which would through a monkey wrench in their system. As far as what I have seen from some christians, they actually believe that we believe their god exists, but that we deny his existance so we can feel superior and get away with "sin's". ( this idea is complete crap since if we believed in the god in the first place we would know that denying him would only send us to hell)
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Yes i agree with what you say, i hate being told i believe in God and im just doing it to get away with immoral things. Ha ive also been told that the thing that keeps me from learning what "faith" is (which is also a big contradiction) is the fact that im athiest and that being a athiest keeps me from thinking clearly..seriously ive been told that.
 
I think that many christians wont accept that being an atheist isnt something you choose, because to them if someone is an atheists by no fault of their own then an innocent is going to hell
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Could you explain the last part of your quote please? About going to hell if you don't believe in God. I'm not sure I full understand it.

Galileo (sp?) proved that the world was only one planet out of our solar system and that we revolved around the sun. The catholic church noticed that if this was true then it would prove their religion wrong, so they imprisoned him and threatened him with torture. He was told to say he was wrong, or else be tortured and he did. But then many years later its proven again. All religion does is adapt to whatever science proves and says "oh it actually says it right here! It was just a metaphor/misinterpetation!" when they know damn well it wasnt, samething with many saying that a certain scripture shouldnt be taken literally or should be dismissed all together. People then say this is a "mistake" ha such a mistake for someone to think for himself then be a sheep isnt it?
Click to expand...

This just proves what I meant about interpreting the Bible according to the time period in which you live. It's a problem many don't seem to be able to get over. The Bible was written for and by the people of a time when the Earth was number one and the center of all. God explained it that way so as not to confuse them. They weren't ready for the full truth specifically because of their lack of Science and knowledge. Things were simplified for their understanding, as we would simplify the explanation of certain complex topics for children. The human race is slowly growing up, and one day with science and religion we will come to understand fully. The bible has errors in it when examined scientifically only because it was written by and for people with very little knowledge of science. Theology is not changing religion to fit science, it's understanding that the bible was written two thousand years ago for primitive people and must be interpreted for us. If God came back today he would tell us about creaton and the like in a different way, up to date with our science.
 
Originally posted by qckbeam
Could you explain the last part of your quote please? About going to hell if you don't believe in God. I'm not sure I full understand it.
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Err dont mean to jump into your disscusion with him, but it says in the bible that all believers will go to hell and both jesus and moses promoted the killings of athiests.
 
Originally posted by mchammer75040
Then why did you ask me to show these contradictions??? Im just now showing how the concept of God is contradictive i havent even gotten to how science proves it wrong! Come on now you asked dont shy away...(im not flaming)
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You posted your contradictions. I didn't feel like replying to them, because I don't feel the need to debate what you posted. I had answers for most of what you posted, but some I'd have to look up and double check, but there were explantions for everything you posted (and not metaphors/interpretations..)

I didn't ask for your "how God is contradictory" essay, all I asked for was the contradictions you'd spoken of. Which you posted, I never expressed interest in debating them, as I've said, debating religion online is a waste of time.
 
It's ok, thank you for explaining it :)

Again, this is interpretation though, and needs to be interpreted into todays point of view. Atheists, in this sense of the word, means those who heard the word of God, knew it to be true, and turned away from it acting contrary to it. It had different conotations and meaning than what we understand it to mean today. It doesn't mean that those people who are good, and honestly don't believe in God are going to hell and should be murdered. Also do not forget, Jesus was speaking to brutal people who lived in violent times, and was a human himself. There is also the arguement of translation, and the use of the word murder for effect, not to be taken literally.
 
my god(no pun intended), I intentionally didnt reply. I just wanted to start a contaversial(sp?) thread on a contraversial subject and just see how it evolved from there. What people opinions were since religion is a subject where everybody seems to have one. I personally dont believe in God, only the facts and what science can prove. Im just a logical kinda guy. Though I wouldnt normally put it as bluntly as I did in the subject line of this thread. Whelp, keep em comin I find discussions on religion very interesting, and Ill argue my point untill the cows come home.
 
A forum that is based on a computer game is not the place for a religious conversation. Everybody has a different belief. You can argue for weeks, but nobody will ever back down or give in. When's the last time you've met a person who has changed their religious beliefs based on what some jerkoff told him on a message board?
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
You posted your contradictions. I didn't feel like replying to them, because I don't feel the need to debate what you posted. I had answers for most of what you posted, but some I'd have to look up and double check, but there were explantions for everything you posted (and not metaphors/interpretations..)

I didn't ask for your "how God is contradictory" essay, all I asked for was the contradictions you'd spoken of. Which you posted, I never expressed interest in debating them, as I've said, debating religion online is a waste of time.
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I have more but im not going to post more if noone is going to reply to them.
 
Originally posted by not28
A forum that is based on a computer game is not the place for a religious conversation.
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Halflife2.Net > General Forums > General Off-Topic Chat > God doesnt exist
 
Originally posted by mchammer75040
I have more but im not going to post more if noone is going to reply to them.
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It's like I said, I was just interested in what you've read/heard. You posted, I didn't want to debate. Sorry if you feel like I wasted your time at all :) :cheers:
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
Halflife2.Net > General Forums > General Off-Topic Chat > God doesnt exist
Click to expand...

Halflife2.Net > General Forums > General Off-Topic Chat > God doesnt exist
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
It's like I said, I was just interested in what you've read/heard. You posted, I didn't want to debate. Sorry if you feel like I wasted your time at all :) :cheers:
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WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY:dork:
 
lol, I was purely curious man.. I had no interest to debate your beliefs :) curiosity got the best of me

Originally posted by not28
Halflife2.Net > General Forums > General Off-Topic Chat > God doesnt exist
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Look at the other topics in this forum. Clearly, not HL2 related. Hence the purpose of OFF-TOPIC. Don't like religious threads? Don't read 'em, simple as that :)
 
I'm not really an atheist, but I'm not religious either. The closest I can categorize myself is as a kind of modified "deist".

In other words, I think that if something created the universe, it left things to follow thier own course, without any interference. So we really can't tell what it is.

I also don't think humanity can really make any assumptions about a higher power, because of the lack of concrete evidence and the unlikelihood that we would be able to fathom 'god' if we saw it anyway.

In my personal opinion, humanity in general takes thier personal religions too seriously. If I was going to base my life on something, I'd like to be mellowed out, not busy studying scripture of chanting or whatever. I'm too lazy for that. :)

I'm one of those guys who interprets the bibles of the world as morality tales to be used as guidelines. And really, if you think about it, most religions are basically the same as far as what they teach anyways, so debate is pointless.

:devil: :angel:
 
Originally posted by Brian Damage
Blasphemer! No presents for you next Halloween!




:E
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..YOU GET PRESENTS ON HALLOWEEN IF YOU BELIEVE IN PUMPKINISM!?~?!~?!?@!?~!@?@!>!#/1/3/
 
Originally posted by mchammer75040
BAH! Not flaming but seriously me being athiest has nothing to do with me not wanting to believe in god like others do. Its because every god represented has been discredited by philosophy and science. The bible itself has so many contradictions that you cant take it serious. I personally believe the universe is self-governing, and even if there is a God id rather have my freedom to think for myself and be damned to hell then be just a sheep and go to heaven.
Click to expand...


Thats a good argument for being atheist.


I dont really think science has done much to discredit religion. There were the big thigns like finding out about dinosaurs and stuff, discrediting the creationist view. But there have been extreme floods on earth, thats been prooven.
And just about every physicist I've read about (im big into physics) belives in god. And those guys are all about finding out how we exist here and why everything works the way it does.

Saying that everything that exists happend by chance is just to much of a leap of faith for me :naughty:
 
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