Goldeneye: Source Mod Leader Dies

[Ennui]

I don't care whether he killed himself out of despair, or curiousity, or anger, or hate.

I don't care whether he killed himself, or was killed, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or simply gave up.

I don't care whether or not he hurt someone else when he died, or if he died alone, or he died in a massive explosion, or if he collapsed in a bed.

He's dead.

I mourne.

My thoughts exactly.

And Reaktor, why do you feel like you need to diminish the gravity of his death? That sort of post doesn't need to be in this thread.

 

[Reaktor4]

Im not diminishing it, im putting it in perspective. To his family and people who knew him, its a devestating blow. He sounded like a really good guy. But to most of us, hes more or less as random as the other million people who die every day.

 

[ericms]

I don't care whether he killed himself out of despair, or curiousity, or anger, or hate.

I don't care whether he killed himself, or was killed, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or simply gave up.

I don't care whether or not he hurt someone else when he died, or if he died alone, or he died in a massive explosion, or if he collapsed in a bed.

He's dead.

I mourne.

You don't care that he was killed yet you mourn over something that you just said you didn't care about!? I'm confused about what makes this so upsetting for you. Somehow we've been brought up to think of death as a terrible and sad thing. The only thing that is terrible about it is the way some people tend to reach it, which you ignore apparently.

 

[Raeven0]

Still, what's all this about not feeling bad if it was suicide? Regardless of how it happened and that it was choice, it's still another life gone out, and that's tragedy. Don't listen to me, though, I've got more compassion than is healthy.

I lost my compassion in the war.

A life lost is a tragedy, especially a suicide, but everybody present seems to be overlaying his own ideas and ideals onto the situation.

Objectively, one man's death is not the end of the world, and for most of us is totally meaningless except in our private compassionate moments.

Objectively, suicide cannot per se be classified as honourable and brave or submissive and weak. Situations vary.

Objectively, though we like to believe that all families on Earth are close-knit, oftentimes that just isn't the case. Objectively, it is logically bereft to care more about a person just because we share more DNA than usual.

 

[JNightshade]

Jintor summed it up perfectly. I was conveying my reasoning badly- what I was TRYING to say was that no matter what, I feel bad for people who are gone, or who feel bad themselves. End of story.

 

[Reaktor4]

You don't care that he was killed yet you mourn over something that you just said you didn't care about!? I'm confused about what makes this so upsetting for you. Somehow we've been brought up to think of death as a terrible and sad thing. The only thing that is terrible about it is the way some people tend to reach it, which you ignore apparently.

Agreed.

 

[Ennui]

I lost my compassion in the war.

A life lost is a tragedy, especially a suicide, but everybody present seems to be overlaying his own ideas and ideals onto the situation.

Objectively, one man's death is not the end of the world, and for most of us is totally meaningless except in our private compassionate moments.

Objectively, suicide cannot per se be classified as honourable and brave or submissive and weak. Situations vary.

Objectively, though we like to believe that all families on Earth are close-knit, oftentimes that just isn't the case. Objectively, it is logically bereft to care more about a person just because we share more DNA than usual.

You should infer from our conversations tonight that objectivity is not something I necessarily embrace.

I know that this guy dying doesn't mean anything at all in the grand scale of things, to even to me, really, because I didn't know him in the least, but it's more the idea of it that just kind of makes me a bit sad. In my "private compassionate moments," which as you've noticed are less than private because I kind of try to disseminate my compassion on other people.

and ericms, what he meant I think is that he doesn't care how the guy died, only that he died and that's sad enough.

 

[WhiteZero]

Weird... I even talked to the guy on Vent

 

[VirusType2]

selfish act, couldnt care less about his family in the aftermath of his suicide ..we should take a second to reflect on his death and then move on ..sorry but I cant pity someone who commits suicide

/end of me being a heartless bastard


his poor family

If people like you could only be in the shoes of someone who kills themselves you would understand. I hope you don't think they do it as a publicity stunt or to get someone back. They are suffering and they want to end the pain. It isn't that they don't care about their family or the people that love them, in fact I would be willing to be that it is the exact opposite.

The fact is, someone who kills them self cannot bear another moment living their life. That means that their life is so unbearable, that they would rather feel nothing ever again than to feel how they feel any longer.


In other news:

WTFBBQ!

Weber grill commercial "as seen on TV"

What a way to go out man.

You know, I have considered suicide hundreds of times, and nearly have several times, but I made it through the ultimate test.

I don't think life is a joke, but if I try not to take it seriously, to try to cope, it gets really depressing, because it is serious, and it seriously is not working out.

But I always think to myself "Why kill myself? Its not over for me! It can still get much worse. It's not THAT bad! So then I continue to exist, and I am still here.

While it's depressing as ****ing shit getting fired from 30 employers, to be arrested 30 something times, to be late on every bill and every task, and 100's of other things that I don't care to say here, is it really reason to take your life? I still have food and shelter. I can still laugh and have fun. I can still go out into the world. I am free.

So don't throw your lives away kiddies. Don't self destruct thinking '**** it'. Instead try to fix your problems instead of creating new ones. Underage alcohol and tobacco is self-destructive, and will eventually (10 years) ruin your life - just like older people told me and I didn't believe it.

Enough rambling.
What I am saying is that unless you have attempted suicide or had serious thoughts of suicide, then there is no way for you to understand why someone would do it.

Goodnight world.


Added:

Imagine a scenario where your wife of 20 years and entire family and parents die in a plane crash, and you are left to the world alone. Some people can deal with it, others can't. This is just one example of why some people take their lives. Try to imagine.

 

[Raziaar]

I have had serious thoughts of suicide before. Its not pretty. I always come to my senses, and realize life is much more important living. Sure, there may be bad stuff... but there's good stuff out there too. And if you had nothing else to live for, surely you could drastically change your life for the better, since there's noplace else to go but up.

 

[15357]

Me too.



That guy did not kill himself. It was murder. Reality killed him. The harsh reality of the world.

 

[Javert]

Im not diminishing it, im putting it in perspective. To his family and people who knew him, its a devestating blow. He sounded like a really good guy. But to most of us, hes more or less as random as the other million people who die every day.

A guy who put as much dedication as a mod, people deserve to know him and mourn.

 

[Shasta]

People that kill themselves are weak morons. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It's not sad, it's pathetic. Usually it is just a form of attention seeking. Not a very bright one though. Whoever they were, is usually negated by their death. I guess some mod has a vacancy now though...

Although at least they obviously got something right in their lives, even if it was succeeding in killing themself. Someone who tries to kill themself and fails must really feel like a looser.

 

[15357]

People that kill themselves are weak morons. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It's not sad, it's pathetic. Usually it is just a form of attention seeking. Not a very bright one though. Whoever they were, is usually negated by their death. I guess some mod has a vacancy now though...

Although at least they obviously got something right in their lives, even if it was succeeding in killing themself. Someone who tries to kill themself and fails must really feel like a looser.

Well, can you say that to the captured colonel who killed himself rather than be tortured and leak secrets to the enemy? Can you say that to the employee who killed himself after failing his corporation dishonoring it?

 

[Shasta]

Well, can you say that to the captured colonel who killed himself rather than be tortured and leak secrets to the enemy? Can you say that to the employee who killed himself after failing his corporation dishonoring it?

Yes. And I already did.

It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

If it is a permanent problem (terminal illness etc), then fine, power to them for choosing to end the suffering they are experiencing, as there will be no reprieve from it, and they may only have a few pain-filled days left anyway. But that is not really what people mean when they refer to "suicide". Usually that term is reserved for greasy loosers who just got dumped by their girfriend, or lost their job, or money, etc.... and just don't want to deal with it.

 

[15357]

Riiight, the leaking of major tactical secrets is a temporary problem...

 

[Lemonking]

What an awful way to go... It's a real shame.


Suicide is submission and defeat. There is rarely any semblance of nobility in it.
This does not lessen the severity of how sad it is.

its harsh...but you speak the truth...this is really sad indeed.

 

[Asknoone]

The way he chose to go out endangered others as well.

 

[Zephos]

The way he chose to go out endangered others as well.

Yeah, the pill would have been much more approriate.

 

[sabre0001]

Sad...But I don't like the choice of suicide as a way out.

Curiosity is also an odd reason but only he will know why in the end...

 

[Shasta]

Riiight, the leaking of major tactical secrets is a temporary problem...

Next you will say that suicide bombing in the name of your country / religion is a good thing too....

No stupid government, or idealistic belief of "greater powers" is worth throwing away the one and only life you have. Neither is losing your crappy job, or being dumped, or money, or anything else.

Suicide isn't sad, it's a joke. Don't cry for anyone stupid and weak enough to do it. Go get an icecream, root the missus, or play a game. If you have to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for their family, for being related to such a loser.

 

[Raeven0]

It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Surprisingly, not everyone has the cheery, ever-self-renewing life that you no doubt hold dear. Some problems are permanent.

 

[Laivasse]

It seems we're making the assumptions that anyone's death is necessarily harmful to everyone who knew him and that no situation is ever so bad that death could be preferable.

Ironically, we don't make the same provision for murderers or rapists.

I don't understand. So much anti-suicide dogma... it's stupid.

Agreed. It bewilders me that people can supposedly feel sympathy for a person in misery but as soon as you say 'suicide', people's faces harden and all sympathy disappears. People like to think this is because suicide offends their principles, but it's actually because we've been cultured into fearing and despising it as a phenomenon - the 'anti-suicide dogma' as you mentioned.

Roman saying: "A good man lives as long as he ought, not as long as he can."

It's all very well saying 'but think of their poor family' or harping on the 'permanent solution to a temporary problem' thing, but these are all assumptions. Terminal illness is far from the only permanent problem that can exist for individuals, just the same as not everyone has a loving family who are going to be brokenhearted by their death. Even if they do, many suicides feel that they are more of a hindrance/threat/disgrace to their family alive than they would be if they died.

As for the guy who died, I can't feel anything having not known anything about this guy. But a death whose details you hear about is different from a death reported in a stat, and I suppose this is kind of sad.

Like Raeven I was just baffled yet again people's moral inconsistency. Would you stop to help someone crying in the street, but then sneer or tell them they were weak and cowardly if they mentioned suicide? Or is there no payoff in sympathising with the suicidal, since such people want help and sympathy and little else, so you lose the little self-congratulatory altruistic glow you would get if you were helping the unsuspecting? Glad I don't have any friends who think like that.

 

[Shasta]

Surprisingly, not everyone has the cheery, ever-self-renewing life that you no doubt hold dear. Some problems are permanent.

Yes, yes- like cancer etc. I know, and we already went through that. Try to keep up. Go back a few posts before you drag another reluctant and random thought into the world.

 

[Laivasse]

Yes, yes- like cancer etc. I know, and we already went through that. Try to keep up. Go back a few posts before you drag another reluctant and random thought into the world.

No not just like cancer, etc. Try to keep up.

 

[Shasta]

No not just like cancer, etc. Try to keep up.

Well, some examples might just help your arguement, rather than, well, nothing. Like you have so far presented.

People like to think this is because suicide offends their principles, but it's actually because we've been cultured into fearing and despising it as a phenomenon - the 'anti-suicide dogma' as you mentioned.

It doesn't offend me. I think it is stupid, not offensive. The same as if I saw someone eating their own sh*t. I wouldn't feel sorry for them, I'd just chuckle to myself how retarded they are, and move along. Same with suicide.

 

[Laivasse]

Amazing as it may sound to such a cheerful chappy as yourself who seems to get by with a kind of sheep and meadows, 'let's root the missus, wheeeeyyyy!'-outlook, some people actually go through their whole lives in crippling poverty, their whole lives in social ostracism, their whole lives in a state of psychological fragility; and those are just the big sweeping examples. Being abandoned by your family/your spouse/whatever, or having them die on you, is a permanent problem, because you'll never get them back. Some people can't cope with that, or don't want to, since rooting the missus doesn't actually give them a point to live in the absence of anything else like it does for you.

But actually - ignore all of that since I was addressing my thoughts to people with sense, rather than someone trying to prove how net-hardcore they are by laughing at the dead.

 

[Shasta]

some people actually go through their whole lives in crippling poverty, their whole lives in social ostracism, their whole lives in a state of psychological fragility; and those are just the big sweeping examples. Being abandoned by your family/your spouse/whatever, or having them die on you, is a permanent problem, because you'll never get them back.

Boo hoo. I personally know plenty of people that struggle to pay rent each week, and a surprizing amount that have dead parents, siblings, spouses, and even a couple of people that have lost children. They don't cry about it. They just carry on. Only weak people would consider an easy way out of that short term pain from their loss, or a way to avoid paying next weeks rent. The ones that have lost someone, if they are not mental lightweights, carry on after they have finished grieving. You have lead a pretty sheltered life, haven't you?

Do you think that most people that lose a loved one then go and top themselves?

Besides, losing a spouse (for example) is not permanent. You got someone to marry you once. You can do it again....

...someone trying to prove how net-hardcore they are by laughing at the dead.

What the hell are you on about? You think I'm trying to make some sort of statement, just because I'm not some pussy that cries over weak idiots killing themselves?

 

[Laivasse]

Boo hoo. I personally know plenty of people that struggle to pay rent each week, and a surprizing amount that have dead parents, siblings, spouses, and even a couple of people that have lost children. They don't cry about it. They just carry on. Only weak people would consider an easy way out of that short term pain from their loss. Then, if they are not mental lightwieghts, they carry on after they have finished grieving. You have lead a pretty sheltered life, haven't you?

Do you think that most people that lose a loved one then go and top themselves?

Besides, losing a spouse (for example) is not permanent. You got someone to marry you once. You can do it again....

What has a sheltered life got to do with anything? I've been to more funerals than you've likely had holidays. I've certainly been to more funerals than I've had holidays.

The amount of pain an individual will go through due to a particular event varies from person to person. You can flex your muscles and talk about weakness being the deciding factor, but equally if I felt like petty penis-wrestling I could retort by saying that decreased suffering is due to goldfish-like mental shallowness and superficiality. Could, but wont.

Bereavement is a permanent problem - you will never marry that person again, and neither will anyone else. I never said being unmarried was a permanent problem. But some people are so deformingly ugly and unattractive in personality that you never know.

What the hell are you on about? You think I'm trying to make some sort of statement, just because I'm not some pussy that cries over weak idiots killing themselves?

Well, what is the point of you telling everyone how much suicide makes you chuckle in a thread about someone who committed suicide?

 

[Shasta]

Well, what is the point of you telling everyone how much suicide makes you chuckle in a thread about someone who committed suicide?

The same as the people posting and crying about how sad they think it is, yourself included- I'm posting my opinion on it.

Just because you don't like my opinion, doesn't mean you need to cry about it. (Or does it....)

You poor, emotional doormat.

 

[Laivasse]

The same as the people posting and crying about how sad they think it is, yourself included

As for the guy who died, I can't feel anything having not known anything about this guy.

I'm posting my opinion on it.

No, I think that for some reason you desperately want people to believe that you are not 'some pussy that cries over weak idiots killing themselves'/an emotional doormat/someone who cries, ever. Unfortunately, you're just convincing people that you're a dick we're all better off not knowing personally.

You poor, emotional doormat.

Meh, changed my mind, you are goldfish. So you wont waste time crying ('AT ALL EVER NEVER, I NEVER CRY WHO SAID THAT'), but you'll waste time posting about how you don't? Wouldn't you have more fun rooting the missus?

 

[Ennui]

Shasta, I'm sure you feel very big about your faux machoism, but it's not necessary or proper in this thread.

 

[99.vikram]

Boo hoo. I personally know plenty of people that struggle to pay rent each week, and a surprizing amount that have dead parents, siblings, spouses, and even a couple of people that have lost children. They don't cry about it. They just carry on. Only weak people would consider an easy way out of that short term pain from their loss, or a way to avoid paying next weeks rent. The ones that have lost someone, if they are not mental lightweights, carry on after they have finished grieving. You have lead a pretty sheltered life, haven't you?

Do you know someone whose family can barely afford food for the next day?
Someone on whom his entire family is dependent on, and failed at something?
Or someone so deep in debt that they cannot possibly pay it all back?
There are some situations that there are no ways out of, and you should be glad that you aren't in one of those spots.

 

[CptStern]

Do you know someone whose family can barely afford food for the next day?
Someone on whom his entire family is dependent on, and failed at something?
Or someone so deep in debt that they cannot possibly pay it all back?
There are some situations that there are no ways out of, and you should be glad that you aren't in one of those spots.

if that were justifiable whole areas of africa, india, china, the US, europe etc etc would simply commit suicide en masse. He was far far better off than the majority of the world's population

 

[Raeven0]

Again I must invoke the Oblivion Argument:

Yeah, there's definitely something [weak] about looking in the face of Oblivion and deciding that whatever's over there must be better than what you have here.

 

[99.vikram]

if that were justifiable whole areas of africa, india, china, the US, europe etc etc would simply commit suicide en masse. He was far far better off than the majority of the world's population

Lemme tell you something here, you twit - I live in India, and was lucky to be born into a middle-class urban family. Suicides are not uncommon here for many reasons, the main one being farmers can't pay back loans. Heck, sometimes students kill themselves when they don't do well because of the intense competition (overpopulation). And I expect it is as bad, if not worse, in parts of Africa.

So yes, suicides are common here, but your media doesn't give the issue the attention it deserves.

 

[Laivasse]

if that were justifiable whole areas of africa, india, china, the US, europe etc etc would simply commit suicide en masse. He was far far better off than the majority of the world's population

Materially maybe, but feeling suicidal is a different calibre of problem to not having enough food to eat (note: saying this while acknowledging the above post which covers people killing themselves specifically because of poverty...). Someone with no food suffers because they don't have enough food to go on living; to someone entertaining thoughts of suicide, living itself is the problem. A severely depressed person may act recklessly when crossing roads and consciously neglect their own wellbeing. Staying alive or keeping your health in good order is not the problem - like I say it's a problem of a different calibre. The will to live is not something that magically materialises when you give someone 3 square meals a day (although that in itself does suffice for many people).

Ask someone feeling suicidal if they'd switch places with a starving person in Africa if it meant an end to their particular problem, and you might be surprised at the answer.

 

[CptStern]

Lemme tell you something here, you twit - I live in India, and was lucky to be born into a middle-class urban family. Suicides are not uncommon here for many reasons, the main one being farmers can't pay back loans. Heck, sometimes students kill themselves when they don't do well because of the intense competition (overpopulation). And I expect it is as bad, if not worse, in parts of Africa.

the same goes for many parts of the world ...I dont see how that makes it any more justifiable especially since the person in question was not anywhere near under the poverty line (in comparison to say this person) nor did he face a slow death due to disease

it was a selfish cowardly act that screams attention seeking ..the whole "I want to see what it's like" attitude proves this

oh and kindly refrain from calling me a twit, I've dealth with mental illness (I was a teacher at a special needs school) that would make the person in question look like the most competant person in the world so dont make assumptions

So yes, suicides are common here, but your media doesn't give the issue the attention it deserves.

I'm not constrained by borders when it comes to my media intake so dont assume

Materially maybe, but feeling suicidal is a different calibre of problem to not having enough food to eat (note: saying this while acknowledging the above post which covers people killing themselves specifically because of poverty...). Someone with no food suffers because they don't have enough food to go on living; to someone entertaining thoughts of suicide, living itself is the problem. A severely depressed person may act recklessly when crossing roads and consciously neglect their own wellbeing. Staying alive or keeping your health in good order is not the problem - like I say it's a problem of a different calibre. The will to live is not something that magically materialises when you give someone 3 square meals a day (although that in itself does suffice for many people).

Ask someone feeling suicidal if they'd switch places with a starving person in Africa if it meant an end to their particular problem, and you might be surprised at the answer.

yes I'm fully aware it's mental health issue, however I was answering his assertation that poverty justified his taking his own life

 

[Pilo]

Again I must invoke the Oblivion Argument:
Quote:

Yeah, there's definitely something [weak] about looking in the face of Oblivion and deciding that whatever's over there must be better than what you have here

I happen to agree, since suicide is particularly stupid in this instance and the fact that if there is an afterlife a lot of religions say suicide is a nono and so he'd be going to hell.

The families have my sympathy but not the guy himself.

 

[Gray Fox]

Next you will say that suicide bombing in the name of your country / religion is a good thing too....

No stupid government, or idealistic belief of "greater powers" is worth throwing away the one and only life you have. Neither is losing your crappy job, or being dumped, or money, or anything else.

Suicide isn't sad, it's a joke. Don't cry for anyone stupid and weak enough to do it. Go get an icecream, root the missus, or play a game. If you have to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for their family, for being related to such a loser.

Suicide is not joke, you are a joke, a sick perverted, pathetic, arrogant joke of nature. I sick and tired of know it all jokers like you. You do not know his situation, you do not know his feelings, you do know not his pains you do not know him, and most of all you do not know jack shit about suicides.

Suicides are not always to end your pain, many times they are to end the pain of others, and calling it weak and easy way out is nothing less then shortsighted idiocy. There is no other thing as unnatural as taking ones own life, there is no other thing that takes as much will as taking one's own life, it go's against are most basic instinct, it go's against everything we have been told. And sometimes it's necesairy because of curcumstances which only an idot like you can claim to know, and only an idiot like you can think he can judge and jury.