Gordon Freeman is a bumbling idiot
- Thread starter Darkside55
- Start date
Rizzo89 said:
Ofcourse it was; what the hell else was the resistance supposed to do? Towards the end of "Follow Freeman" the citizens (as another poster put it a long time ago) were "dropping like flies", and our ride through the Citadel showed us that the Combine still had one hell of an army just waiting to be released. Their only hope was the destroy the source of the Combine's army in City 17: the Citadel, and then hope to evacuate the area in time.
I don't think Gordon is an idiot. He doesn't have much choice in his actions: it always amounts to Live or Die. Naturally he chooses not to die.
Sloth
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But also one thing {not sure if it's been posted before} Freeman is only doing what falls into his lap - not wasting time trying to think of doing next...
As to him not weighing up the loss of C17 to killing Breen - how was he to know what would happen... Even if he was a MIT grad in therotical phyisics, it's not like you're going to be doing the math while combine are shooting at you?
As to him not weighing up the loss of C17 to killing Breen - how was he to know what would happen... Even if he was a MIT grad in therotical phyisics, it's not like you're going to be doing the math while combine are shooting at you?
G
gasparem16
Guest
hi,i'm new in this thing and i've been reading some of the topics of this forum, I don't know a lot of this, but didn't breen said gordon:
"Doctor Freeman, you really shouldn't be out there. At the moment of synapse as I teleport this chamber will be bathed in deadly particles that have yet to be named by human science (...) You on the other hand will be destroyed in every way it is possible to be destroyed, and even in some, which are essentially impossible".
Sounds like kill or die to me besides saving the earth or not...., sorry if it's a noob post.
"Doctor Freeman, you really shouldn't be out there. At the moment of synapse as I teleport this chamber will be bathed in deadly particles that have yet to be named by human science (...) You on the other hand will be destroyed in every way it is possible to be destroyed, and even in some, which are essentially impossible".
Sounds like kill or die to me besides saving the earth or not...., sorry if it's a noob post.
B
Bishop Tutu1
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To the topic creator:
what you said is, in non vulgar terms, is "highly uneducated." How can you call someone who doesnt even talk (which proves that no one knows his true personality) a bumbliing idiot? its also plausible that the Gman has put his finger in a lot of the crap thats been goin on in City 17, so everything isnt in Freeman's hands. And regarding your statement about Dr. Breen urging Freeman to not destroy the Citadel: you do realize that he was only saying that to save his own butt? plus, if Freeman didnt destroy the teleporter, which is originally what he was tryin to destroy, NOT the Citadel, he, and Alyx for that matter, would have died due to the fact that after Breens teleportation, the citadel would fill up "[chemicals] not even name by modern scientists", so if he wouldnt have done it, Freeman would have: 1. Died and 2. Let, most likely, the world's greatest traitor and malefactor escape, so City 17's populace would have truly been take "out of the frying pan and into the fire," as you so cutely stated in your uneducated but lengthy conclusion to your even more lengthy essay on Freeman being a bumbling idiot. And also, if the Nihilanth wouldnt have been killed, he wouldve have, more than likely would have done probably the exact same thing as the Combine had done to Earth citizens in HL2: conquered the **** out of it. Furthermore, where you state Freeman as being a "glorified cart pusher," you do understand that this is the only day you see Freeman working; that is, Freeman has probably done a great deal in part of the work in his department in black mesa, prior to the game, yet you only took in account what you've seen rather than actually thinking about possibly prior events to the Black Mesa Incident. I realize that many people could have already said this, i really dont care. i just hate when ppl just say things with out thinking.
what you said is, in non vulgar terms, is "highly uneducated." How can you call someone who doesnt even talk (which proves that no one knows his true personality) a bumbliing idiot? its also plausible that the Gman has put his finger in a lot of the crap thats been goin on in City 17, so everything isnt in Freeman's hands. And regarding your statement about Dr. Breen urging Freeman to not destroy the Citadel: you do realize that he was only saying that to save his own butt? plus, if Freeman didnt destroy the teleporter, which is originally what he was tryin to destroy, NOT the Citadel, he, and Alyx for that matter, would have died due to the fact that after Breens teleportation, the citadel would fill up "[chemicals] not even name by modern scientists", so if he wouldnt have done it, Freeman would have: 1. Died and 2. Let, most likely, the world's greatest traitor and malefactor escape, so City 17's populace would have truly been take "out of the frying pan and into the fire," as you so cutely stated in your uneducated but lengthy conclusion to your even more lengthy essay on Freeman being a bumbling idiot. And also, if the Nihilanth wouldnt have been killed, he wouldve have, more than likely would have done probably the exact same thing as the Combine had done to Earth citizens in HL2: conquered the **** out of it. Furthermore, where you state Freeman as being a "glorified cart pusher," you do understand that this is the only day you see Freeman working; that is, Freeman has probably done a great deal in part of the work in his department in black mesa, prior to the game, yet you only took in account what you've seen rather than actually thinking about possibly prior events to the Black Mesa Incident. I realize that many people could have already said this, i really dont care. i just hate when ppl just say things with out thinking.
Darkside55
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The assumption that someone cannot judge another person's personality simply because they say no words is, in non vulgar terms, far more uneducated than what I have said. By this logic, one could never judge the personality of a deaf-mute. Do actions not speak louder than words? By Freeman's actions, do we not gain a measure of his personality? We know far, far, FAR more about him than most people even realize, simply because they do not stop to consider it.
The G-man is irrelevant because while yes, he has been manipulating events, he exerts no mind control over Gordon Freeman...Gordon Freeman does what he does based on what he feels he needs to do--or in short, what he feels is right.
About Breen, what he said was not only about him. It was indeed about this new world and everyone in it. Oh, I don't doubt that it was said partially out of self-interest; I'm no fool. But consider the fact that, as shown in Episode One, Breen was RIGHT. The Combine has sent a message to their homeworld, and who knows what's contained within it...but I have the feeling it is most definately to send in another invasion force. Thus, Gordon's single-minded act of "stopping the bad guy" is going to bring in another wave of hostile alien forces and completely undo what Breen has worked for: the salvation of humanity.
Furthermore, whether Breen asked Freeman the question ("What have you created?") out of self-interest or a concern for humanity is ultimately irrelevant. Freeman himself knows that what he did might have been the wrong thing, as evidenced in Ep1's opening sequence...he's haunted by those words. He knows them to be true. And this is not a dream spurred on by anything else but his own guilty conscience.
To address the "glorified cart pusher" statement, I should remind you that until certain lines by Dr. Breen in Half-Life 2, and Alyx Vance in Episode One, that retconned Gordon's time at Black Mesa, "glorified cart pusher" was his one and only task at the facility: it was his first day. May 15, 200x, the start of his employment. Prior to that he only had orientation, and conducted no actual work. Even Breen mentions that Gordon Freeman hadn't even earned the distinction of his doctorate at BMRF because he was only there for one day before the whole thing went to hell.
As for the Nihilanth, there is nothing suggesting that he would have subjugated Earth as the Combine did; in fact, his army was paltry compared to what the Combine brought over. And remember: it was the science team's meddling that might've forced the Nihilanth's hand; had they left Xen (and its populace) alone, it might not've come to invasion. The controllers are malicious beings but as the Nihilanth's chief concern is the safety of the Xenian races, and judging by the way he seems to parley with Dr. Freeman, I'd like to think the whole situation could've occurred in a much different way. The actions of the science team are in no way Gordon Freeman's fault, however.
Finally, the crux of all this is that you seem to have missed the fact that this ENTIRE thread, and all my posts contained within, were lighthearted in nature. Factual, yes, but I was poking fun. You might want to get your Internet Sarcasm Meter(tm) checked; I think it's running a little faulty. And I do SO hate when people say things without thinking.
The G-man is irrelevant because while yes, he has been manipulating events, he exerts no mind control over Gordon Freeman...Gordon Freeman does what he does based on what he feels he needs to do--or in short, what he feels is right.
About Breen, what he said was not only about him. It was indeed about this new world and everyone in it. Oh, I don't doubt that it was said partially out of self-interest; I'm no fool. But consider the fact that, as shown in Episode One, Breen was RIGHT. The Combine has sent a message to their homeworld, and who knows what's contained within it...but I have the feeling it is most definately to send in another invasion force. Thus, Gordon's single-minded act of "stopping the bad guy" is going to bring in another wave of hostile alien forces and completely undo what Breen has worked for: the salvation of humanity.
Furthermore, whether Breen asked Freeman the question ("What have you created?") out of self-interest or a concern for humanity is ultimately irrelevant. Freeman himself knows that what he did might have been the wrong thing, as evidenced in Ep1's opening sequence...he's haunted by those words. He knows them to be true. And this is not a dream spurred on by anything else but his own guilty conscience.
To address the "glorified cart pusher" statement, I should remind you that until certain lines by Dr. Breen in Half-Life 2, and Alyx Vance in Episode One, that retconned Gordon's time at Black Mesa, "glorified cart pusher" was his one and only task at the facility: it was his first day. May 15, 200x, the start of his employment. Prior to that he only had orientation, and conducted no actual work. Even Breen mentions that Gordon Freeman hadn't even earned the distinction of his doctorate at BMRF because he was only there for one day before the whole thing went to hell.
As for the Nihilanth, there is nothing suggesting that he would have subjugated Earth as the Combine did; in fact, his army was paltry compared to what the Combine brought over. And remember: it was the science team's meddling that might've forced the Nihilanth's hand; had they left Xen (and its populace) alone, it might not've come to invasion. The controllers are malicious beings but as the Nihilanth's chief concern is the safety of the Xenian races, and judging by the way he seems to parley with Dr. Freeman, I'd like to think the whole situation could've occurred in a much different way. The actions of the science team are in no way Gordon Freeman's fault, however.
Finally, the crux of all this is that you seem to have missed the fact that this ENTIRE thread, and all my posts contained within, were lighthearted in nature. Factual, yes, but I was poking fun. You might want to get your Internet Sarcasm Meter(tm) checked; I think it's running a little faulty. And I do SO hate when people say things without thinking.
B
Bishop Tutu1
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To the topic creator:
lol i see where this is about to go. I'll admit you can just a person' personality even if they cant speak, but i mean, honestly, your tryin to determine how a character that, for one, hasn't said one word, and whose face you never see, in gameplay AND in plot-moving situations. And, even if you can assume certain things about how Freeman felt in certain situations, I could assume that Freeman may have acted the way he did because he felt he had no other choice, or maybe even he did so thinking he's doing the Gman's bidding.Though possibly unlikely, many people could make many educated guesses about Freeman's personality and his feelings, but, in the end, it is essentially futile in doing so.
Concerning Freeman's destruction of the Dark Reactor, you do remember that Breen said (not word for word) that lots of poisonous chemicals would appear after his teleport that would kill Alyx and Freeman (and, quite possibly, threaten the citizens of City 17, eventually), so now I could assume that Freeman was thinking when he destroyed the reactor, and was trying to save the lives of him and Alyx, possibly more importantly Alyx, who he could have developed feelings for. These are, of course simple assumptions using your method of determining Freeman's feelings, and I essentially don't believe them; I'm just trying to prove a point.
Addressing Breen, we don't truly know if Breen was working toward humanity's safety or if he was only looking out for "number 1", which is a high possibility; its quite ironic that the Administrator of the facility that ultimately lead to the Combine's entrance into Earth's universe becomes the ruler of the world, don't you think? And, also, if someone in Breen's power were truly looking out for the betterment of mankind, i think he'd try to somehow make life better for the citizens of City 17. Yes, in a fashion, some of the citizens bring about some of the pain brought upon them, most notibly the Resistance members.
Now, I'd like to thank you for the information regarding Freeman's "glorified cart pusher" position. This proves to me what I was thinking before I posted my earlier reply: that the only reason Freeman was working as a "cart pusher" is because he wasn't working there long, so to call him a glorified cart pusher is ignorant because calling him thus insinuates that this is his one and only position that he will ever have, as if BMRF hired him to do nothing more than move materials around.
Gman could be controlling the events unfolding at a unfathomable degree, at least up to the end of HL2, which could give little free room for the "illusion of free choice".
Ill think ill stop for now in fear of carpel tunnel syndrome. I may start again later.
lol i see where this is about to go. I'll admit you can just a person' personality even if they cant speak, but i mean, honestly, your tryin to determine how a character that, for one, hasn't said one word, and whose face you never see, in gameplay AND in plot-moving situations. And, even if you can assume certain things about how Freeman felt in certain situations, I could assume that Freeman may have acted the way he did because he felt he had no other choice, or maybe even he did so thinking he's doing the Gman's bidding.Though possibly unlikely, many people could make many educated guesses about Freeman's personality and his feelings, but, in the end, it is essentially futile in doing so.
Concerning Freeman's destruction of the Dark Reactor, you do remember that Breen said (not word for word) that lots of poisonous chemicals would appear after his teleport that would kill Alyx and Freeman (and, quite possibly, threaten the citizens of City 17, eventually), so now I could assume that Freeman was thinking when he destroyed the reactor, and was trying to save the lives of him and Alyx, possibly more importantly Alyx, who he could have developed feelings for. These are, of course simple assumptions using your method of determining Freeman's feelings, and I essentially don't believe them; I'm just trying to prove a point.
Addressing Breen, we don't truly know if Breen was working toward humanity's safety or if he was only looking out for "number 1", which is a high possibility; its quite ironic that the Administrator of the facility that ultimately lead to the Combine's entrance into Earth's universe becomes the ruler of the world, don't you think? And, also, if someone in Breen's power were truly looking out for the betterment of mankind, i think he'd try to somehow make life better for the citizens of City 17. Yes, in a fashion, some of the citizens bring about some of the pain brought upon them, most notibly the Resistance members.
Now, I'd like to thank you for the information regarding Freeman's "glorified cart pusher" position. This proves to me what I was thinking before I posted my earlier reply: that the only reason Freeman was working as a "cart pusher" is because he wasn't working there long, so to call him a glorified cart pusher is ignorant because calling him thus insinuates that this is his one and only position that he will ever have, as if BMRF hired him to do nothing more than move materials around.
Gman could be controlling the events unfolding at a unfathomable degree, at least up to the end of HL2, which could give little free room for the "illusion of free choice".
Ill think ill stop for now in fear of carpel tunnel syndrome. I may start again later.
B
Bishop Tutu1
Guest
Isnt his name spelled Laszlo? i knew it was weird but the subtitles spelled it like that i think
Darkside55
The Freeman
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I'm really not getting how you don't understand Gordon's personality. He doesn't speak, but the way he does things, the very linear way players are made to do things, that's telling us about Gordon Freeman. There's a lot of information about him, trust me on this one. Or, wait to trust me on this one; eventually I'll have it all compiled down into an article.
BTW, only the chamber was going to be bathed in deadly particles. It wouldn't have migrated out to City 17. They've used that thing before if I'm not mistaken, before the events of the game. Also again, I don't see why you "don't believe" Freeman could have feelings for Alyx, even platonic ones...he saves people he cares about all the time. And have you not played Episode One yet? The developing relationship between them is about as subtle as being bludgeoned over the head with Freeman's crowbar. Even Barney notices.
There's no real irony or conspiracy about how Breen became the consul. BMRF was indirectly responsible for the Combine's arrival. They didn't know the resonance cascade would occur, even though they had estimates on how their machinery would react to the sample. So the cascade happens, Freeman kills Nihilanth, Nihilanth releases energy, Combine track that energy to Earth. Breen just happened to get power because he was able to negotiate with them. Coincidence but it's not like it was planned--at least not by Dr. Breen.
And he does care about mankind, and he does try to make the place better for them. There's only so much he can do though. He put jugglers on the Breen show to entertain people; what more do you want?
He cares, just not as much as he cares for humanity as a species. He's more interested in human survival rather than how people feel, but he understands that too. I think that's one of the reasons he tries to sugarcoat things, but also tries to get people to cooperate...makes the whole process much simpler. The Combine are doing terrible things, and people know it...what's he supposed to be doing to cheer people up? Holding parades? The guy has the advisors breathing down his neck all the time too. Breen does what he can, but really he's just a stuffy old scientist...and those types aren't very well known for being personable.
And I have to say, Freeman probably would've been only a cart pusher. You notice they don't train any of the top scientists to use the HEV suits...just people who move stuff around and work inside radiated areas. He pushes a few carts, flips some switches, presses some buttons...that's his job description. Maybe had the incident not happened he would've eventually gotten a position working with the diagnostic machinery or doing calculations, but HEV suit basically equals fancy labor tasks.
And yes, it's spelt Laszlo.
BTW, only the chamber was going to be bathed in deadly particles. It wouldn't have migrated out to City 17. They've used that thing before if I'm not mistaken, before the events of the game. Also again, I don't see why you "don't believe" Freeman could have feelings for Alyx, even platonic ones...he saves people he cares about all the time. And have you not played Episode One yet? The developing relationship between them is about as subtle as being bludgeoned over the head with Freeman's crowbar. Even Barney notices.
There's no real irony or conspiracy about how Breen became the consul. BMRF was indirectly responsible for the Combine's arrival. They didn't know the resonance cascade would occur, even though they had estimates on how their machinery would react to the sample. So the cascade happens, Freeman kills Nihilanth, Nihilanth releases energy, Combine track that energy to Earth. Breen just happened to get power because he was able to negotiate with them. Coincidence but it's not like it was planned--at least not by Dr. Breen.
And he does care about mankind, and he does try to make the place better for them. There's only so much he can do though. He put jugglers on the Breen show to entertain people; what more do you want?
He cares, just not as much as he cares for humanity as a species. He's more interested in human survival rather than how people feel, but he understands that too. I think that's one of the reasons he tries to sugarcoat things, but also tries to get people to cooperate...makes the whole process much simpler. The Combine are doing terrible things, and people know it...what's he supposed to be doing to cheer people up? Holding parades? The guy has the advisors breathing down his neck all the time too. Breen does what he can, but really he's just a stuffy old scientist...and those types aren't very well known for being personable. And I have to say, Freeman probably would've been only a cart pusher. You notice they don't train any of the top scientists to use the HEV suits...just people who move stuff around and work inside radiated areas. He pushes a few carts, flips some switches, presses some buttons...that's his job description. Maybe had the incident not happened he would've eventually gotten a position working with the diagnostic machinery or doing calculations, but HEV suit basically equals fancy labor tasks.
And yes, it's spelt Laszlo.
