Grigori off topic

[Parakeet]

Someone wanted me to put this is off topic. It comes from this thread.

I would like to point out that the verse that you partialy quoted from the Bible proves your story in no way. All the Bible says is that the Sons of God had children with the daughters of men. Who the Sons of God are, whether angels or demons, we do not know. It seems probable that they are angels due to other references in the Bible to the "Sons of God" but we do not know for sure. The Bible says nothing at all about angels being sent to guide men nor about them teaching "forbidden science". There is also no mention of anything like Grigoris (or whatever you people are talking about) in the Bible. There is no mention of any sort of imprisonment for 70 generations nor an apeal to Enoch. I would also like to know where you got your information that says one of the causes for the flood was to whipe out the Nephilim. All my Bible says about the Nephilim was that they were the sons of the "Sons of God" and the "Daughters of men" and that they were men of great renown. All that you have said MAY be true, but the Bible certainly does not support it. I will go ahead and post the entire first part of Genisis 6 for those who want to read the entire thing instead of select bits.

1 When men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for he is flesh, but his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown. 5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. 9



In closeing I would like to say that even IF one of the reasons for the flood was to wipe out the Nephilim and God decided this is what was right and what was to be, would it not be you who is commiting the atrocity by comparing this to Hitler, ethnic cleansing, and calling it an atrocity? Are you so scandalized at this "injustice" that you choose to speak for the dead Nephilim? You who did not know them or what crimes they commited? I find it amusing that wave your finger at God and call him a bad boy after he wipes out an entire race of people. Does that seem foolish to anyone else?

Maybe the real reason for these posts is not that you care about justice at all, but you just want to take the opportunity to insult God or the Bible whenever you get the chance.

 

[DarkStar]

Woah...easy there buddy.

*slowly backs away from Parakeet

 

[Parakeet]

I assume that you are slowly backing away from the Grigori (or whatever) people in the other forum as well?

 

[crabcakes66]

take your religious psycho babble else where.....

 

[Parakeet]

Like maybe to the off topic forums?

 

[DarkStar]

Parakeet, looking through your post history I see that every single post you've made here at HL2.NET concerns religion. While it's cool and everything that you're such a die-hard believer that you don't even believe in evolution, this probably isn't the best place to discuss it. We're all godless-communist-perverts around here. And are ancestors were monkeys. Shows how much we know.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Are you a Jew Parakeet?

 

[LittleB]

Man... when I see a chunk of text like that, with words like "god", and "bible"... Well let's just say I'm glad I was born with a thing called common sense.

 

[DarkStar]

Parakeet, looking through your post history I see that every single post you've made here at HL2.NET concerns religion. While it's cool and everything that you're such a die-hard believer that you don't even believe in evolution, this probably isn't the best place to discuss it. We're all godless-communist-perverts around here. And are ancestors were monkeys. Shows how much we know.

Holy crap. I used "are" instead of "our." I always hate when morons do that. Now I am one of the morons. It's a sad day.

 

[burnzie]

We're all godless-communist-perverts around here. And are ancestors were monkeys.

lol

take your religious psycho babble else where.....

diddo... we aint gonna change

 

[Parakeet]

Parakeet, looking through your post history I see that every single post you've made here at HL2.NET concerns religion.

You are mistaken. Only 2 or 3 of my posts have been about religion.

While it's cool and everything that you're such a die-hard believer that you don't even believe in evolution

The reason I don't believe in evolution is not because I'm a "die-hard believer", as you say, its because it has not been proven. This is why it is called a theory. So many holes have been punched in evolution it is amazing that it is accepted by many as fact.

No I am not a jew for whoever asked that.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

wow.. grow up people. let parakeet post/discuss whatever he/she wants.. it's parakeet's thread, obviously directed at grigori.. if you don't like the content just ignore it. at most, you (or a mod) could sugest that it go to PMs (which is where it should be, from the look of it).

"take your religious psycho babble else where....." -crabcakes
"Like maybe to the off topic forums?" -parakeet

haha, exactly. personally, i couldn't give two shits about such biblical discussions.. but why would i try to make parakeets posting my business? this thread isn't spamming or trolling.. what's wrong with you people?

 

[crabcakes66]

It will eventually end in a flame war...so we might as well get a head start on things.....

 

[Lil' Timmy]

It will eventually end in a flame war...so we might as well get a head start on things.....

so you have no problem with trolling if you don't like the thread topic? nice attitude :/

 

[Chris D]

It will eventually end in a flame war...so we might as well get a head start on things.....

It's hardly going to help with you saying stuff like "take your religious psycho babble else where.....".

I am starting to get really fed up with some of the attitudes on this forum.

 

[crabcakes66]

so you have no problem with trolling if you don't like the thread topic? nice attitude :/

that was meant to be sarcastic....

 

[burnzie]

It's hardly going to help with you saying stuff like "take your religious psycho babble else where.....".

I am starting to get really fed up with some of the attitudes on this forum.

i think we're all wearing alittle thin, including me.

i've had a pretty bad atitude lately and i need to watch my posts alittle

maybe we need a good dose of HL2 info to keep spirits up

 

[PvtRyan]

The reason I don't believe in evolution is not because I'm a "die-hard believer", as you say, its because it has not been proven. This is why it is called a theory. So many holes have been punched in evolution it is amazing that it is accepted by many as fact.

You know, it's funny, replace that word "evolution" with the word "God" and it turns into an argument against you.

There haven't been "many holes punched" in the evolution theory, it's still gaining evidence as we speak, it's not perfect, but that's why it's a theory in development. And while "it's just a theory" is strictly speaking true, the idea you're trying to provoke is completely false. A theory isn't a level of provenness (I think I invented a word here), it will never turn into a law, it will always remain a theory, but the same goes for the molecule theory, and the theory of gravity. No sane man will deny those exist, but they're still called theories. A theory doesn't mean it's some random ideas on paper, it's a well supported (by evidence) description of events in nature.

 

[Parakeet]

Anyone even bother to read the original thread from whence this came.

 

[Sprafa]

I read the other thread and understood your point Parakeet.

They were saying that God exterminated the Nephilim as "Hitler with he Jews" and saying "ethnic cleansing in the Bible".

Certainly they have a point as well? Although they were sinners, did they deserved to be exterminated? And if they did were exterminated, doesn't that makes God a little ruthless?

 

[burnzie]

yeah you do make a fair point, although most people wouldnt read through it.


as for religion bashing. dont do it. you risk offending someone. we do not want ot lose valuble members of our community through a couple of jesus jokes and bible bashing. do we want to send people away from this community.

come on guys were all here for a commen reason (HL2 for the slow). lets just respect other peoples beleifs and ideals.

if you dont want to be in a religious disscussion, dont post crap (i am guilty of this) now i will make an effort, how bout you

chris has already mentioned attitudes have gone to shit lately, i realy think we can do better

 

[Parakeet]

Thanks for your intelligent replies guys.

Sprafa, I would like to respond to what you said.

I read the other thread and understood your point Parakeet.

They were saying that God exterminated the Nephilim as "Hitler with he Jews" and saying "ethnic cleansing in the Bible".

Certainly they have a point as well? Although they were sinners, did they deserved to be exterminated? And if they did were exterminated, doesn't that makes God a little ruthless?

Pretty much your opinion in this area depends on how you think of God. Do you think of God as he is described in the Bible? All these questions and statements you have said could very well be applied to another human who killed a race of people. God, however, is not some angry dictator in another country who is killing off a sub race of his people. Please also keep in mind that if your going to accuse God of ethnic cleansing then you should say ethnicS cleansing, sice everyone on the face of the earth (at that time) was killed by the flood (except Noah and his family).Let me just go ahead and give you my opinion on this subject.

You said "Although they were sinners, did they deserved to be exterminated?". Well first off let me point out what Genesis 6:5 says "5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually". Everyone on the earth is a sinner but in this passage it says that these people were "evil continually". Everyone is a sinner but not many are "evil continually". If everyone on the face of the earth was like this (which the Bible says they were, with the exception of Noah) then God has every justification to kill them all.

Secondly I would say that yes they deserved to be wiped out. I say this because God did it. God is holy and just. The Bible says in Psalms 145:17 "The LORD is just in all his ways, and kind in all his doings". All sinners deserve to die. That includes me and everyone else on the earth today, God would be totaly justified in killing us all. Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." It is only because of the Lords kindness (as mentioned previously in Psalms 145:17) that he does not punish us and gives us the chance to repent. 2 Peter 3:9 says "The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

I guess you could say that God was as patient as he could be with those people and since they where never going to repent he wiped them out. Lets also not forget that even if you dispute whether God was justified in doing this the Bible says "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world and ALL who live in it" Psalm 24:1.

I hope I answered your question. If I confused you at all please just ask me questions and I will do my best to give specific answers.

 

[MindCrafter]

Yes but you can't blame people for not believeing in something that justifies killing every human on the face of the earth because "we are all sinners". Remember that this includes killing little babies too, like they are "sinners".

I recommend to alot of people to read the bible though...it makes it easier to make up your mind about religion.

"The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world and ALL who live in it" Psalm 24:1.

I don't want to feel like i am being owned by anyone :stare:

 

[el Chi]

The reason I don't believe in evolution is not because I'm a "die-hard believer", as you say, its because it has not been proven. This is why it is called a theory. So many holes have been punched in evolution it is amazing that it is accepted by many as fact.

Well, it does have a huge amount of evidence to back it up through fossil records etc. In any case, isn't it possible that God set the ball rolling?
That way everyone's happy.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I think this belongs in PMs. Anyway. People, don't flame.

 

[thenerdguy]

Yes but you can't blame people for not believeing in something that justifies killing every human on the face of the earth because "we are all sinners". Remember that this includes killing little babies too, like they are "sinners".

I recommend to alot of people to read the bible though...it makes it easier to make up your mind about religion.



I don't want to feel like i am being owned by anyone :stare:

Thats where your wrong.

I dont remember where its at in the Bible but it says something about the children would be held blameless untell the they relise that they can sin.

Im looking for the verses right now so I might find it soon.

 

[Parakeet]

Yes but you can't blame people for not believeing in something that justifies killing every human on the face of the earth because "we are all sinners".

I understand why people would not want to believe it.

Remember that this includes killing little babies too, like they are "sinners".

The Bible says that all people are sinful from birth although I believe there is a verse that says children will not be held acountable for their sin untill they are old enough to comprehend it. An above poster mentioned that.

I recommend to alot of people to read the bible though...it makes it easier to make up your mind about religion.

Most people do not read the Bible because they scoff at religion.

I don't want to feel like i am being owned by anyone

I can understand why you feel that way but what if you are? I must say that if thats the case things are looking bad for a mighty lot of people.


Let me put it in terms that some of you might understand.

Lets say that in reality there is no God. You don't believe in God and I do. When we die you turn into worm food and I learn the truth (or maybe I don't since I am just dead and can't think) and I turn into worm food too.

Now lets look on the other side of things. Lets say that there really is a God. I believe in him and have tried to follow him. When I die I go to heaven (assuming everything I believe is true). When you die, you learn to truth and then HOLY MOMMA THINGS ARE LOOKING BAD FOR YOU NOW. Hell here you come.

So lets see.... no God and we both end up the same. I maybe have wasted a little bit of my time durring life and maybe been nicer than I had to, maybe I fooled some other people into doing the same. But really what does that matter anyhow if we just end up dead? Might as well just kill everyone when they are born since their lifes are worthless (o wait I forgot we are already doing that with abortion). If there is a God though I'm sitting pretty.

You might use the old saying of "better safe than sorry".

 

[Direwolf]

To be fair, being agnostic or an atheist does not imply immorality. I myself would have a tough time accepting a god that would forever punish a moral and good person for not having believed in him while they lived.

 

[Parakeet]

Well, it does have a huge amount of evidence to back it up through fossil records etc.

Such as? You are aware that many of the "ape man" (or whatever) proofs of evolution have been revealed to be frauds don't you? Everything from setting up normal human skeletons incorrectly in order to make them apear more ape like to recreating an entire human from one tooth (and later revealed to be a pigs tooth at that) has been done to try and create fossils that prove evolution. If anything fossil records prove that evolution did not take place. They have found fish (among other creatures) that were supposed to have died out millions of years ago still alive today. Scientists say "WOW THEY SURVIVED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS ITS AMAZING!!!" Well... theres sort of 2 ways of looking at this you know.

In any case, isn't it possible that God set the ball rolling?
That way everyone's happy.

The Bible and evolution are incompatable. If people believe that God "set the ball rolling" its no God I have ever heard of.

 

[Esquire]

Let me put it in terms that some of you might understand.

Lets say that in reality there is no God. You don't believe in God and I do. When we die you turn into worm food and I learn the truth (or maybe I don't since I am just dead and can't think) and I turn into worm food too.

Now lets look on the other side of things. Lets say that there really is a God. I believe in him and have tried to follow him. When I die I go to heaven (assuming everything I believe is true). When you die, you learn to truth and then HOLY MOMMA THINGS ARE LOOKING BAD FOR YOU NOW. Hell here you come.

So lets see.... no God and we both end up the same. I maybe have wasted a little bit of my time durring life and maybe been nicer than I had to, maybe I fooled some other people into doing the same. But really what does that matter anyhow if we just end up dead? Might as well just kill everyone when they are born since their lifes are worthless (o wait I forgot we are already doing that with abortion). If there is a God though I'm sitting pretty.

You might use the old saying of "better safe than sorry".

So basically you're just being as sinless as possible to get into heaven. He's given you two options: Do as i say, or get one hell of a suntan in hell.

 

[Esquire]

The Bible and evolution are incompatable. If people believe that God "set the ball rolling" its no God I have ever heard of.

i disagree.

The way the world is today looks as if someone planted a seed to grow, and just left it at that.


I sometime get the idea that the human race is simply an experiment. Like God was showing off to the other Gods.

Kinda like "i will be the first to make a race that has free will."

And all the other God's are like "wow if he does this he'll be a super god".

To me that's just as believeable as God turning a stick into a snake. So noone laugh at it.

It sounds a bit strange that God is trying to make us all worship him since he loves us so much. He could maybe be like one of those possessive girl-friends who want constant attention.

Anyway...

 

[Direwolf]

Anyone ever read Angels and Demons? Dan Brown articulates very well an idea that I've long held myself: Science and Religion are both looking for the same thing, but in different ways.
Just because we've begun to have an understanding of how some things work does not mean that God is any less involved in any of it. If anything we've begun to understand just how amazing the universe is.

 

[Parakeet]

To be fair, being agnostic or an atheist does not imply immorality. I myself would have a tough time accepting a god that would forever punish a moral and good person for not having believed in him while they lived.

AHHHH THANK YOU SIR!! Now we get to the real MEAT of the argument.

First let me clarify one thing. God does not punish you for not believing in him. God punishes you for your sins. God MUST punish you for your sins. Your sins deserve death. God does not WANT to punish you, but because he is a 100 percent holy and just God your sins DEMAND the punishment of being separated from God forever (hell). Because God loves you and does not WANT to punish you in this way he came to earth in human form to die on the cross in your place and take your punishment (what you deserve for your sins) onto himself. John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


On to the rest of your reply. I would disagree with your statement about an agnostic or atheist not implying imorality. In order to be either of these things you must first have heard of God to claim to be one, therefore in doing so you are rejecting God. Since God is the source of all morality you are choosing to reject morality. Sure you may KNOW what the right thing to do is.... thanks to your CONSCIENCE (which comes from where?). You may even do some good things but as Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God not because of works, lest any man should boast." Your goodness will not save you. You might say that a agnostic has not truely rejected God, but the Bible has something to say about that as well: Revelation 3:15-16 "I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot!So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth."

As far as your saying that God should not punish a good person, who are you to say that you are good!?! No doubt every person on the earth would consider themselves "good" and deserving of heaven rather than eternal punishment if they were given that choice. By what measurement do you test yourself against to see if you are good or not? Romans 3:23 says: "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". The Bible says that the goodest and most moral things you can do are as filthy rags to God. The only way that you can be saved from your sin is by accepting that it is a free gift and you did nothing to earn it. Even that you COULD do nothing to earn it.

 

[Esquire]

The Bible and evolution are incompatable. If people believe that God "set the ball rolling" its no God I have ever heard of.

i disagree.

The way the world is today looks as if someone planted a seed to grow, and just left it at that.


I sometime get the idea that the human race is simply an experiment. Like God was showing off to the other Gods.

Kinda like "i will be the first to make a race that has free will."

And all the other God's are like "wow if he does this he'll be a super god".

To me that's just as believeable as God turning a stick into a snake. So noone laugh at it.

Anyway...

First of all let me just say that i have the utmost respect for people like Parakeet who seem to have this blind faith in their religion. I see people around the place claiming that they're Christians and yet the do nothing at all that makes them Christian. What they've basically done is made their own little religion, where you can do whatever you please, and only speak to God when you need help where no1 else can help you.

That enfuriates me.

Religion seriously pisses me off at times... i think it is very unfair. God, says he gives us free will, but we can only make decisions on what we know.

If for example, we were raised with our parents telling us that having sex with our sister who is 5years younger than us is alright, we would grow up believing that doing that isn't wrong. it would just be normal.

In these modern times with TV and radio and constant information being transmitted to you, we get constant influxes of opinions which opens up our minds to what others view as right and wrong. So maybe the person grown thinking sex with his sister is fine will then change the way he thinks once hearing these different opinions.

But what if he lived a reclusive life. No outside intervention? Would God come to him then and tell him that he's been sinning all these years? I don't think so. Seems to me like God is stuck in heaven and will never come down.

I think instead we're just expected to get to this stage where we realise we can sin, and then seek out the Bible and believe everything that is said in it. Without even seeing the author. Without knowing even knowing of their presence. In Christianity it wasn't even God who wrote the Bible was it? Second Testament was writen by disciples weren't it?

Back on track, this poor soul in my example doesn't know of the Bible. And when he suddenly dies of a heart attack does he just get sent to hell?

My main point which i maybe haven't stressed at all is that the Bible is simply unnecessary. The world would be a much better place if God got down to Earth and with the people and told them what's happening. I mean, c'mon! To make people aware of my presence i'll write a book containing prophecies and stories of me acting through select people on Earth. It has to be one of the worst marketing strategies i have ever heard!

Why not just tell people about yourself, face to face. For all we know, God could really be the 'evil' one, and Satan could be the 'good' one. How exactly do we know who to trust? We dont. We're just expected to follow what a book says. No questions asked.


Aww damn i was editting my last post and typed a whole load of information but i went over that 15minute mark. I shall try to recollect...


I basically said something like God aint doin shit to help people on Earth... Seems like he's stuck up in heaven... needs to get down and speak with people of Earth properly.... Bible is a poor marketing strategy..

..and probably many other things i have forgotten.

 

[^Ben]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Parakeet

The reason I don't believe in evolution is not because I'm a "die-hard believer", as you say, its because it has not been proven. This is why it is called a theory. So many holes have been punched in evolution it is amazing that it is accepted by many as fact.

You know, it's funny, replace that word "evolution" with the word "God" and it turns into an argument against you.

There haven't been "many holes punched" in the evolution theory, it's still gaining evidence as we speak, it's not perfect, but that's why it's a theory in development. And while "it's just a theory" is strictly speaking true, the idea you're trying to provoke is completely false. A theory isn't a level of provenness (I think I invented a word here), it will never turn into a law, it will always remain a theory, but the same goes for the molecule theory, and the theory of gravity. No sane man will deny those exist, but they're still called theories. A theory doesn't mean it's some random ideas on paper, it's a well supported (by evidence) description of events in nature."

That's all i have to say on the evloution subject.

 

[Parakeet]

So basically you're just being as sinless as possible to get into heaven. He's given you two options: Do as i say, or get one hell of a suntan in hell.

Trying to be sinless won't save you. The Bible says in Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

I deserve to die for my sins. As I explained in the above post I DESERVE to die for my sins. This is not some whim that God just feels like picking on people. He is totaly holy and just, the DUE punishment that I deserve for sin is eternal seperation from God (in hell). God really does not want to send me to hell. God loves everyone and doesn't want anyone to suffer. Because of his love for us and his desire to circumvent the punishment that we deserve he came to earth in human form (in the form of his son, Jesus Christ), died, was seperated from God the father, and went to hell. He suffered everything we should have suffered because he did not want us to suffer. Since he is God, however, he did not remain in hell and instead rose again the third day and accended back into heaven. The only way you can recieve the gift of eternal life and go to heaven AS WELL as not having to pay for your sins is to follow the instructions in Romans 10:9 "if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

So you see in answer to your question I do believe what I have said. I am not merely "pretending" and trying to be sinless to get into heaven. My REASON for believing is the "better safe than sorry" thing. Quite frankly I think that any reason for believing is fine. If your afraid of hell and thats why you believe, thats fine. If you have a better safe than sorry mentality thats fine too. If you are thankful for Jesus for loving you so much that he would die when you were nothing thats fine as well. 1 John 4:19 "We love, because he first loved us".

 

[Gunner]

I can't believe the moderators would allow such drivel here. Parakeet you have serious issues, and just what the hell are you trying to do now? you were told to use PMs and now you're trying to enlighten us? seriously don't try to push your beliefs on others, oh and one more thing you make me sick to my stomach.

 

[Parakeet]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Parakeet

The reason I don't believe in evolution is not because I'm a "die-hard believer", as you say, its because it has not been proven. This is why it is called a theory. So many holes have been punched in evolution it is amazing that it is accepted by many as fact.

You know, it's funny, replace that word "evolution" with the word "God" and it turns into an argument against you.

That would be true, except I have never said I could prove God. God must be taken on faith. Much like evolution.

There haven't been "many holes punched" in the evolution theory, it's still gaining evidence as we speak, it's not perfect, but that's why it's a theory in development. And while "it's just a theory" is strictly speaking true, the idea you're trying to provoke is completely false. A theory isn't a level of provenness (I think I invented a word here), it will never turn into a law, it will always remain a theory, but the same goes for the molecule theory, and the theory of gravity. No sane man will deny those exist, but they're still called theories. A theory doesn't mean it's some random ideas on paper, it's a well supported (by evidence) description of events in nature."

That's all i have to say on the evloution subject.

Evolution is not even close to being the same as gravity. Aside from saying that I will not bother to get into a evolution debate with you. I will freely admit that I am no expert on the subject and I doubt you are either. If you want to have a debate on evolution I suggest you go to the website www.drdino.com (when the site is up, it seems to be down now) find the phone number for Dr. Kent Hovind and call him up and chat with him about evolution. I'm sure he will find it amusing that "no holes have been punched" in evolution since his job is to travel around the country doing just that in both speeches as well as debates with scientists. I doubt you will do this though since it is much simpler to just accept what you already know as fact instead of trying to find something that disproves what you know.

 

[Parakeet]

I can't believe the moderators would allow such drivel here.

In the off topic forum you mean? The title of which is "The place to discuss absolutely anything"?

Parakeet you have serious issues, and just what the hell are you trying to do now?

Trying to enlighten..... you took the words right out of my mouth.

you were told to use PMs and now you're trying to enlighten us?

Actually it was suggested that I use PM's and since I think the moderators would agree that having to send the same pm to 3 or 4 people is excessive when this thread is already in off topic I chose to just keep posting.

seriously don't try to push your beliefs on others, oh and one more thing you make me sick to my stomach.

I appologize for grabing you by your eyeballs and forcing you to read this "drivel"....... I am in no way pushing my beliefs on you. The other people in this thread seem to have no problem maintaining their own beliefs and ideas even with me here. If you have trouble keeping your own identity while reading my posts I would strongly recommend not reading them.

 

[Parakeet]

Esquire pretty much the responce to your entire post is one word. Conscience. I will try and answer more fully when I get back from church. Good chatting with you guys.