Half Life 2 multiplayer - Was it always CSS?

[Pi Mu Rho]

I think 90% of this thread comes down to the way that people interpret Valve's comments.

That's quite funny really.

 

[koopa]

See that last point, with the mod community? Anyone ever consider Valve want to purposely AVOID stealing the thunder of mod makers. Our first exposure to REAL source MP will be through mods. Easy for Valve, they just buy them out with a ready made game they didn't create and start selling as their own like CS and DOD. It's a good idea. Sell-out mod teams can provide instant cash flow for Valve.

I've no idea what the rest of your post is on about ( :naughty: ), but I think you nailed it with this bit.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I've no idea what the rest of your post is on about ( :naughty: ), but I think you nailed it with this bit.

My god man i don't even know what my post was about. How did you extract logic from it?



Ok no seriously, yeah that's a good point though.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I think 90% of this thread comes down to the way that people interpret Valve's comments.

That's so true. Valve should make announcements in binary code so there's no uncertainty in what they say.

Q: is there a Hl2mp other than CS:S?
Doug: 0
Q: 0 ?
Doug: 1
Q: 1?
Doug: 1
Q: ok...umm

 

[koopa]

That's so true. Valve should make announcements in binary code so there's no uncertainty in what they say.

I lol'd for real at that one. You're on form today!

 

[iamaelephant]

I think 90% of this thread comes down to the way that people interpret Valve's comments.

That's quite funny really.

Hahaha, you basically tore down Mr-Fusions page-long rant and glued it back together in one sentence.

A mp for Half-Life 2 would have to be created seperately as an expansion, after the game is released. It's just too much ****ing work to do it properly in unison with creating a great sp experience. Look at Doom 3 and Far Cry, shit mp...SHIT SHIT SHIT mp (and shit sp ironically..). KOTOR NO MP , great sp! Yeah they could slap some shitty piece of crap mp mode with cut out maps from the single player ala MOHAA etc but that is just so cheap and tacky it's not worth the effort. Do it properly with classes, a huge array of new vehicles, new weapons, player models, maps, sounds and game dynamics. It's too much work to create something worthwhile.

I think this bit is a cop-out. Look at Call of Duty - in less than half the development time of HL2, Infinity Ward put together one of the best single player games in recent memory (albeit a bit too short) and then managed to give us a simple, yet extremely addictive and fun multiplayer mode.

 

[poseyjmac]

Semantics. You knew what I meant.. just replace "can they not be fans" with "can they not be as big a fan", etc etc. Semantics again, I say you're wanting HL2 to be something it's not, by including something it doesn't have. I'm not going to argue with you over the definitions of sentences, you're intelligent enough to know exactly what points I'm trying to make.

not semantics, very important differences. i wouldn't argue them if they were petty.

 

[Logic]

Nice post Mr-Fusion . I still think it's likely that initially Valve had intented for HL2 to have themed MP, and I would say they did try a few things out, only to axe it later, but I certainly agree that it was not Valve who got our hopes up.

not semantics, very important differences. i wouldn't argue them if they were petty.

Yes, there are differences, but you get my drift. I shouldn't have needed to re-word it for you, but here you go: I dislike your belief that someone who doesn't want a particular multiplayer component is less of a fan than you are, for the reasons I described in my post. Is someone who doesn't have a decent internet connection less of a fan because of it? Is someone who's not good at multiplayer games less of a fan because of it? I don't believe so... how much of a fan you are is determined by your level of devotion to the games as they are, not by how desperately you want something that isn't there.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Hahaha, you basically tore down Mr-Fusions page-long rant and glued it back together in one sentence.



I think this bit is a cop-out. Look at Call of Duty - in less than half the development time of HL2, Infinity Ward put together one of the best single player games in recent memory (albeit a bit too short) and then managed to give us a simple, yet extremely addictive and fun multiplayer mode.

Infinity Ward didn't have to write their own engine.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

That's right, quake3 engine was sitting there ready to be worked with. CoD mp never yanked my crank. It just seemed to be the same old formula that had been around for years with a few slight changes. Nothing really impressive. Yet it is indeed very popular, Britney Spears is also popular.

And while the SP was well made, professional, good production values etc it just seemed like MOHAA with iron-sights to me. Same old same old.

Valve seem to spend a lot of time working on changing the core experience of FPS gameplay, creating an interesting and unique narrative and instituting an attention to detail that few developers bother with. Bird ai...yeah. Infinity Ward didn't even touch the surface, they just took what had already been done and changed it a bit. If they churned out a sp/mp game quicker than Valve...well i can see why.

 

[Edcrab]

Eh... actually I object to implying that people shaped HL2's MP entirely with their own imagination. Expectation undoubtedly played a truly massive part, but with all the secrecy and enticing statements regarding a unique MP component that Gabe himself played every day- well, I honestly wouldn't have thought "hey, they must've revamped Counter-Strike!".

If I did, I would've been kidding. Kind of statement you add a "" to in a post and then amend with "God, I hope they don't do that".

So yes, most of the disappointed people have themselves to blame- but I can definitely see why expectations were so high.

Hell, at least it seems Valve have met that anticipatory level SP-wise, and quite bluntly that was what I was looking forward to most- that and the game's modding potential :naughty:

 

[Logic]

...but with all the secrecy and enticing statements regarding a unique MP component that Gabe himself played every day...

"all the" statements? The statement you are referring to is the only one of it's kind, Valve didn't continually remind us that we had amazing multiplayer to look forward to.. they were very quiet about it. Their tight-lipped approach did probably cause people to dwell on that particular statement far too much, but you can hardly blame Valve for that

Thinking about it, this is probably the most highly anticipated game in recent history, and that kind of anticipation always inevitably leads to some highly strung, emotionally charged people. The fact that there are people here on these forums who are angry at Valve, and feel personally betrayed, demonstrates how much the games really mean to them.. you wouldn't get that kind of tension or hatred towards crappy game companies who make average games. So I guess all this is to Valve's credit - they have ascended beyond creators of mild entertainment.. they mean a hell of a lot to a great many people. Only a select few game developers can make that claim.

So... uh... yeah, get pissed off at Valve, people! You're actually paying them a compliment

 

[Edcrab]

The "all the" had a singular connection- namely to "secrecy", but I can understand the misinterpretation. Sometimes it's only accepted, grammaticaly, to add a comma after listings to imply seperation of conjuncts and descriptors, but in other circles it's frowned upon for breaking the flow of text (in the same way "their" is often frowned upon when used as a descriptive possessor to describe either gender).

You want to be pedantic? You're facing a master

I'd agree with the anger/compliment connection: it's just like how the victims of moviemistakes.com should feel proud that they've attracted a following so nitpicky and obsessive that they over-analyse every little detail...

 

[Mountain Man]

umm, read his post. CS:S didn't begin production till februrary of that next year.

Or at least it wasn't announced until then. What makes you so sure it wasn't already in production before the announcement?

 

[Logic]

The "all the" had a singular connection- namely to "secrecy", but I can understand the misinterpretation. Sometimes it's only accepted, grammaticaly, to add a comma after listings to imply seperation of conjuncts and descriptors, but in other circles it's frowned upon for breaking the flow of text (in the same way "their" is often frowned upon when used as a descriptive possessor to describe either gender).

I was more concerned by your use of the word "statements" (plural):

but with all the secrecy and enticing statements

resulting in a misleading sentence which would, especially along side "all the", lead anyone who didn't know better to believe that Valve made these kinds of statements often. Since there is only one statement in question, I suggest that your sentence was misdirected, not my interpretation of it

Of course, this is all trivial, and I have no quarall with you, good sir knight :E

 

[Peqkx]

All a modder would need to do is make a map since eveything is already there.

 

[Asuka]

That's so true. Valve should make announcements in binary code so there's no uncertainty in what they say.

Q: is there a Hl2mp other than CS:S?
Doug: 0
Q: 0 ?
Doug: 1
Q: 1?
Doug: 1
Q: ok...umm

Lol that confused me. How exactly do you read that?

 

[ViolenceJack]

One thing about TF2 is everyone just thinks its gone completely i bet if valve keep there word and release some media or what ever after HL2 release loads of people will say its fake.

The thing about Gabes statement was that he was going on about HL2 multiplayer and considering alot of people say CS is a seperate game to HL mainly since it went retail. People then think he was on about HL2 mp. CS is far from unique, its just somin to attract the CS fans. If there is no HL2 MP then i think Gabe was probably going on about TF2.

Although if it seriously was CS i think we could have done without gabe wasting time on a daily basis on that peice of shit and got HL2 SP finished quicker.

CS:S was announced at E3, E3 isnt in februrary it also wouldnt benefit them in anyway to bullshit the time they started making CS:S so why would they do it.

 

[Gorgon]

I think 90% of this thread comes down to the way that people interpret Valve's comments.

That's quite funny really.

OK m8, I agree with ya,

I ask you to give your interpretation of this entire thread.

could u sum it up for us please with sugar on top :cheers:

 

[Homercidal]

All a modder would need to do is make a map since eveything is already there.

Actually, I highly doubt that all we'd have to do is make maps. Valve said they have "examples" of MP, but that doesn't mean they are ready for implementation. It's a starting point, and probalby needs more work yet to be utilized.

I'm sure that someone will have a DM mod fairly quickly, and hopefully it will evolve into something decent. One can only ponder the quality of the mod, but at least something simple that others can build maps around should be available pretty soon.

As far as the rest of the thread, My suspicion is that Valve started making MP, started working on the CS Port because they thought it'd entice more people to buy the game, and then decided to drop the regular MP mode. Of course the also decided to NOT offer CS:S separately and for a lower cost, because they knew that they could sell more copies of HL2 at full price if all of the CS fans out there had to buy HL2 in order to get CS:S.

At any rate, I dislike the way that Valve has danced around this issue for many months. I'm sure lots of people emailed them about the MP issue, and the question of Valve's ambiguity has been a perpetual thread starter since the announcement by Gabe that CS:S was THE MP component.

The could have saved us a lot of grief by simply calrifying the ambiguity early on. Instead, they decided to allow the discussions to "die-off", which they didn't do, and now, on the eve of release, we are informed that there isn't any HL2DM, and they won't be releasing one later.

They could have said, "We didn't have time to do the MP game as well as we would have liked, and CS has such a large fanbase, we'd decided to focus on that and make that the only MP game."

I think that would have been preferrable to all of the speculation and arguments running rampant. Hell, they didn't take the time to port the DM of HL1! What's up with that? Coudl that have been soo hard?

 

[ViolenceJack]

"For security/anti-piracy, each copy [of Half-Life 2] must be authenticated via Steam during installation, after this one-time authentication is complete, an internet connection is not required for single-player and LAN games." Doug

Just the LAN games, what LAN games are you gonner get out of HL2. I supose it could be about CS:S but i didnt think they actually associated it with HL2 doesnt it install seperate, it does through steam at least.

 

[azz0r]

I would go out my way to guess that you have to authenticate to

a) Get more Steam users
b) Stop warez

I bet right now Valve is working there ass off getting new methods to secure that playing its games without Steam running in stopped.

 

[poseyjmac]

Or at least it wasn't announced until then. What makes you so sure it wasn't already in production before the announcement?

read further.

 

[The Mullinator]

Also I find it funny that certain people here are calling ME stupid, considering I'm one of the few people here that doesn't blindly asskiss Valve at every given opportunity. I don't hate Valve, I don't hate Gabe, I don't think they are evil, they are like any other company, AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. They do the same shit any company does, and a lot of people here do not like that to be pointed out.

Blindly defending them? I could say the same thing to people in here. You are blindly attacking Valve. Like Pi Mu Rho said this is all about how you interperet what little we know and the fact is that I have decided not to interperet the information and form an opinion until we know more. You on the other hand have decided to interperet the information to mean that Valve has done nothing but wrong and deserves peoples hate.

I'm only blindly defending Valve from those who have decided judge them before having all the facts. Accept it, you have made up your mind on Valve without knowing the full story and then you have the nerve to insult people who have decided to try and tell you that you shouldn't have made up your mind yet.

 

[Cyber$nake]

I definately agree that there was originally another MP game in progress. He said he was playing it every and yet CSS wasnt started until the next year. There had to have been something. There isnt any other explenation, unless he was lying. Of, course, it was canceled, unless there doing a masterful job of keeping it secret (maybe even hiding it from the reviewers), but that almost definately not true. Too bad

 

[ViolenceJack]

How would it be hard to hide the fact HL2 has a MP from the reviewers. I cant see it been hard at all its not like they can raid your computers and get every single detail of the game. Canceling doesnt sound right as well, why would they, maybe if they didnt have time and they are delaying it but doug said that they have no plans to make HL2 MP. There somin up, either it is lies or there not saying somin.

Maybe CS:S will get some new content on HL2 release, new content is been planned, or so they say. By new content i dont mean more maps redone and models but actual new stuff.

 

[BetaMaster]

Holy crap this thread got huge!
Everyone's repeating the same thing. They have been for 18 pages. Let's just let this thread die.