Half-Life 2 -vs- Stalker Oblivian Lost?
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Lifthz
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Err... that's the DX7/8 render, and an early build of it. Imagine that in the DX9 render...
Yeah, the DX7/8 render of S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Half-Life 2 are on par with each other for the most part.
However in DX9.. I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R jumps to another league.
The one and only thing I think Half-Life 2 has over S.T.A.L.K.E.R is the character face animations technology.
LoneDeranger
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Hmm, how about I imagine HL3 with DX 12 render .. that might even look better then Stalker. My point is, Stalker is coming out a year after HL2. So it's pointless to compare the two. Both look like they will be very good games. I'm gona buy both of them (and maybe even Doom 3).
End of story.
Lifthz
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Originally posted by LoneDeranger
Hmm, how about I imagine HL3 with DX 12 render .. that might even look better then Stalker. My point is, Stalker is coming out a year after HL2. So it's pointless to compare the two. Both look like they will be very good games. I'm gona buy both of them (and maybe even Doom 3).
End of story.
That's not a smart statement at all. And S.T.A.L.K.E.R comes out either late this year or early next year. Not a year after...
Nah, not yet.
I think there is 1 but it has an anomolly post processing filter on. But i'm doubting it was even a DX9 one anyway.
They are sypposed to release a new trailer soon, i'm hoping we get it in the DX9 engine and that they show some real gunplay.
Apos
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Again, I've not seen much to show anything more than a poly/texture/shader race. All games have access to these things, and from the perspective of tech design today, they are the easy part: anyone can bump up their texture/poly amounts and program shaders, add bump maps that look great, etc.: if Valve wanted to release the game in 2004 for 2004 hardware with higher poly counts and textures, what would stop them from doing so? And what would stop the GSC team from turning down their graphical wow so that they could run on current hardware? The question is really how things play and interact: something we can't really compare without the games actually sitting on a real computer owned by a real person. I like Valve's approach: build an engine that is as extensible as possible to whatever new technology, and constantly update it. I hope GSC pursues this route as well, and they certianly seem to with the use of different renderers for the various DX systems.
The only thing I see as a down point about Stalker is that the company making it doesn't have much a track record: their one major past game wasn't all that good. Of course, the past is not a good judge of the future, and they certainly look to have done a good job. However, looks tell us nothing: we've seen so many games that have looked incredible for their day that turned out to be ho-hum games. It could happen with any of the titles we're all so excited about.
The only thing I see as a down point about Stalker is that the company making it doesn't have much a track record: their one major past game wasn't all that good. Of course, the past is not a good judge of the future, and they certainly look to have done a good job. However, looks tell us nothing: we've seen so many games that have looked incredible for their day that turned out to be ho-hum games. It could happen with any of the titles we're all so excited about.
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GOoch
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Apos..
Very well put m8
Acctualy i hope this game is good and it gets good ratings..Looks the Dogs Bolox IMO
And im of the school im not a fan of just one game ill be buying them all HL2/Stalker/Doom3 ..The games that are starting to acctualy use the Technology thats there, Is stating to shine through now as we can all see for our selfs.
Very well put m8
Acctualy i hope this game is good and it gets good ratings..Looks the Dogs Bolox IMO
And im of the school im not a fan of just one game ill be buying them all HL2/Stalker/Doom3 ..The games that are starting to acctualy use the Technology thats there, Is stating to shine through now as we can all see for our selfs.
ShinRa
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I haven't noticed one thing on that engine that Source can't do. I really don't see what your so physched about Lifthz. It's just the Source engine, modded. Anyone can mod the Source engine to do those things, it's nothing amazing.
ShinRa
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Well the feature list, they're trying to make X-ray sound so amazing, when in reality, HL2's engine can do the exact same things. Ballistics physics are possible, weather enviornments are possible, non-linear gameplay is possible, its all possible, just up to the modders, as it wasn't seen fit in HL2.
edit - Just noticed, life simulation system - possible, and better, because the characters look so much better. However, a real life simulation system would require some serious programming, but all in all, possible.
edit - Just noticed, life simulation system - possible, and better, because the characters look so much better. However, a real life simulation system would require some serious programming, but all in all, possible.
MoJo|Night
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In terms of physics engines and game graphics I think we need to wait for final build movies and screens before we really start to compare the two games, and even then not sure if it's worth the effort.
The two games do take a drastically different approach to gameplay and storytelling. HL2 looks to have a fantastic world in which to play the game and interact with the other characters however it is primarily an FPS. Nothing wrong with that, in fact i'm looking forward to HL2 more than stalker however...
Stalker has an open world area with no set route, it has interaction with NPC's far in advance of anything we yet know of in HL2 (doesn't mean it isn't there though). The NPC's in stalker will form factions and alliances and you will fit into an evolving world around you to such an extent that NPC's can actually finish the game instead of you, you are one stalker amongst many, not the main protagonist of the story but one character.
Also we know nothing of weapon progreession or anything in HL2, stalker has a trading system and a communication system with NPC's that is effected by the way you play the game and the way the other stalkers are playing the game.
The short verion of what Im trying to say is that the RPG elements of Stalker need to be considered if you attept to compare the two games, not just some pointless list of renders and poly counts. I hope the details of HL2 and it's gameplay match and outshine stalker, I guess we'll have to wait and see....
The two games do take a drastically different approach to gameplay and storytelling. HL2 looks to have a fantastic world in which to play the game and interact with the other characters however it is primarily an FPS. Nothing wrong with that, in fact i'm looking forward to HL2 more than stalker however...
Stalker has an open world area with no set route, it has interaction with NPC's far in advance of anything we yet know of in HL2 (doesn't mean it isn't there though). The NPC's in stalker will form factions and alliances and you will fit into an evolving world around you to such an extent that NPC's can actually finish the game instead of you, you are one stalker amongst many, not the main protagonist of the story but one character.
Also we know nothing of weapon progreession or anything in HL2, stalker has a trading system and a communication system with NPC's that is effected by the way you play the game and the way the other stalkers are playing the game.
The short verion of what Im trying to say is that the RPG elements of Stalker need to be considered if you attept to compare the two games, not just some pointless list of renders and poly counts. I hope the details of HL2 and it's gameplay match and outshine stalker, I guess we'll have to wait and see....
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Xtasy0
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stalkers interaction with NPC's wasnt even in the game at E3 one of the devs even said in a video interview with gamespot that they hadnt started working on the AI yet, i sure hope they can live upto the claims
Phisionary
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i had a very well thought out and detailed reply, and i clicked 'reset form' by accident. I hate you all and i hate everything and i want eveyone to die now....
-Phision
-Phision
MoJo|Night
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Xtsay0 - I hope they can live up to the claims too.
I did read an account of somone playing a build against NPC's in combat to test out the combat AI. Think it might have been on gamer*** not sure.
As for the larger scale interaction, an interview with the stalker devs recently said they had the zone working and fully functional with or without player involvment and they were now working on balancing issues. More info on www.oblivion-lost.com
I'm sure this used to be a halflife 2 forum........
I did read an account of somone playing a build against NPC's in combat to test out the combat AI. Think it might have been on gamer*** not sure.
As for the larger scale interaction, an interview with the stalker devs recently said they had the zone working and fully functional with or without player involvment and they were now working on balancing issues. More info on www.oblivion-lost.com
I'm sure this used to be a halflife 2 forum........
LoneDeranger
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I doubt it.
A.A
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How can you sit here and say that one game is better in one thing and the other on one thing, when you have never played them?
Try coming back when you all have played them and THEN you can talk about wich one is the better. But anyway, no game is better then the other because the only thing they have in common is that they'r FPS, the gamestyle and si different, they aim to give other things with their games etc. They can't really be compared.
Anyway, if you think these look nice, check out Star Wars:Republic Commando, it's mindblowing! Look like a mix of HL2 with much D3.
Take a look at the video.
http://www.lucasarts.com/press/releases/74.html
"SAN RAFAEL, Calif. – May 13, 2003 – LucasArts today announced development is underway on Star Wars: Republic Commando (working title), a dark and intense first-person shooter for the Xbox™ video game system and PC. The game will utilize an enhanced version of the acclaimed Unreal engine technology.
Expected for release summer 2004, Star Wars: Republic Commando will present a dramatic military-style action experience from the point-of-view of an elite squad member of a Republic Special Operations unit. Players will step into the role of a Commando performing precision operations deep behind enemy lines in this brutally realistic Star Wars combat experience."
It's hard to tell that it's the Unreal engine.
Call of Duty is yet another game that IMO looks really good (for being the Q3 engine) and seem to be very fun.
Try coming back when you all have played them and THEN you can talk about wich one is the better. But anyway, no game is better then the other because the only thing they have in common is that they'r FPS, the gamestyle and si different, they aim to give other things with their games etc. They can't really be compared.
Anyway, if you think these look nice, check out Star Wars:Republic Commando, it's mindblowing! Look like a mix of HL2 with much D3.
Take a look at the video.
http://www.lucasarts.com/press/releases/74.html
"SAN RAFAEL, Calif. – May 13, 2003 – LucasArts today announced development is underway on Star Wars: Republic Commando (working title), a dark and intense first-person shooter for the Xbox™ video game system and PC. The game will utilize an enhanced version of the acclaimed Unreal engine technology.
Expected for release summer 2004, Star Wars: Republic Commando will present a dramatic military-style action experience from the point-of-view of an elite squad member of a Republic Special Operations unit. Players will step into the role of a Commando performing precision operations deep behind enemy lines in this brutally realistic Star Wars combat experience."
It's hard to tell that it's the Unreal engine.
Call of Duty is yet another game that IMO looks really good (for being the Q3 engine) and seem to be very fun.
LoneDeranger
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LOL people post pics and discuss whether it's real-life or from a game. I knew this day would come, but I thought it would be in like 2020
ankalar
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Graphics
First of all, Doom 3 and Far Cry are out of the question. Until I see lighter environments in Doom 3, I will not be satisfied in saying that their engine is any better than the UT2K3 engine if they didn't have the new shaders. All of Doom 3's environments I've seen are inside with very little light, so of course it's going to look good because you see all the shadows and think "Wow, shadows!" The Crytek engine is being poorly represented by Far Cry because they're putting too many specular maps on everything. Also, all of the textures are too vibrant with color so it does not look realistic. Now on to the S.T.A.L.K.E.R vs. Half Life 2 argument. They both look pretty similar other than the textures. I haven't seen one blurry texture yet in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, but some of the textures in HL2 are quite low quality. I still can't believe professional game developers are using practically un-altered phototextures for weapons still. S.T.A.L.K.E.R is, I'm pretty sure, using photoskins for the weapons, but they are very high quality and do not look like they came straight from a digital camera. In my opinion about HL2 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R, it's not up to the engine to make the graphics better, it's up to the artists.
Physics
I've only seen the physics for HL2 and not S.T.A.L.K.E.R, so there's nothing I can really say.
Gameplay
Cannot tell until the game is out.
Story
Cannot tell until the game is out.
Bottom Line
When you have access to an engine that supports high polygon counts, giant texture resolutions, real-time shadows and normal/specular/bump/reflection/transparency/etc. maps, there's not much else you really need in an engine. I'm buying both Half Life 2 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
First of all, Doom 3 and Far Cry are out of the question. Until I see lighter environments in Doom 3, I will not be satisfied in saying that their engine is any better than the UT2K3 engine if they didn't have the new shaders. All of Doom 3's environments I've seen are inside with very little light, so of course it's going to look good because you see all the shadows and think "Wow, shadows!" The Crytek engine is being poorly represented by Far Cry because they're putting too many specular maps on everything. Also, all of the textures are too vibrant with color so it does not look realistic. Now on to the S.T.A.L.K.E.R vs. Half Life 2 argument. They both look pretty similar other than the textures. I haven't seen one blurry texture yet in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, but some of the textures in HL2 are quite low quality. I still can't believe professional game developers are using practically un-altered phototextures for weapons still. S.T.A.L.K.E.R is, I'm pretty sure, using photoskins for the weapons, but they are very high quality and do not look like they came straight from a digital camera. In my opinion about HL2 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R, it's not up to the engine to make the graphics better, it's up to the artists.
Physics
I've only seen the physics for HL2 and not S.T.A.L.K.E.R, so there's nothing I can really say.
Gameplay
Cannot tell until the game is out.
Story
Cannot tell until the game is out.
Bottom Line
When you have access to an engine that supports high polygon counts, giant texture resolutions, real-time shadows and normal/specular/bump/reflection/transparency/etc. maps, there's not much else you really need in an engine. I'm buying both Half Life 2 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Im not impressed with that cyro editor. It looks like a random landscape generator like Gensurf is for Hammer. Also, with the DOD upgrade on models allowing transparencys in HL finaly, you can make that entire tropical forrest scene in HL only without bump mapping and specular lighting.
Phisionary
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OK, the first time I tried to post this, I accidentally deleted it, and I was rellly pissed off for hours. Now it might be a little late, and somewhat longer (therefore boring-er), but here it is anyway...
In my opinion, both HL2 and stalker have amazing graphics. There's really not much point in comparing them, though. They both excel in different ways. One factor of import, VaLVe has expressed a belief that the source engine will scale very well to lower-end systems. I've not specifically seen a claim from the developers of 'Strider ' that are of the same effect. I've not looked, to be honest.
One poster metioned the development of Strider is still continuing. While it's engine is still in development , it's release date is not nearly as sure. 'It's not a year!' said someone (not really, i'm paraphrasing), so maybe it's a half a year or less... Half a year or less is nothing, no reason not to directly compare two games progress. Half a year is only, like, the development cycle for a new line of nVidia/ATi video cards... :dozey:
The HL2 team has also expressed it's intentions to release media and content upgrade to support the continuing advances in graphics hardware technology. Whether they follow through or not, this may mean that the point where we can decide which game has better graphics may not end with the initial release of either game comercially. One or either may continue to be upgraded, though I don't know anything concerning the 'Stalker' team's intentions to do something to this effect.
....Besides, 3 months -AND- six months is an eternity, when I have special and secret information of a blockbuster new graphics engine, long in development, that may blow them all away.
Brace yourself.
WOW!! Stunning. It even has polygons!
So, really, this discussion will not be decided here...
Anyway, the real test of a game is of it's gameplay. The gameplay of both games will (hopefully) be amazing, engrossing, and wonderful. And the engines that these gameplay matters were designed to support will likely complement such design in way we outsiders cannot know, without seeing them in person, or working alongside the developers.
Personally, I see the havok-based physics simulation of HL2 to be it's potential coup de grace, and whether Stalker has any revoltionary elements may decide it's success. There is also glory to be found in the evolutionary advance as well. A game that can be much like it's predecessors, yet more refined and perfected across the board, well, it's likely to be quite a work, and very successful. This includes graphics, but the mechanics of gameplay will be far more important in determining it's enduring success. Valve has chosen to make MOD support a priority, as hlaf-lifes success was lagely determined by this factor. The Strider team need not do this to be a seller, but it must do many other things right, as any game designer must.
I must admit, this pic is really cool though. Look at the reflection on the tiles!!! :E
http://www.gamedev***/articles/indust/20030612_4.jpg
I'm sure they'll both be wonderful. Not equally so to all, of course...
-Phision
In my opinion, both HL2 and stalker have amazing graphics. There's really not much point in comparing them, though. They both excel in different ways. One factor of import, VaLVe has expressed a belief that the source engine will scale very well to lower-end systems. I've not specifically seen a claim from the developers of 'Strider ' that are of the same effect. I've not looked, to be honest.
One poster metioned the development of Strider is still continuing. While it's engine is still in development , it's release date is not nearly as sure. 'It's not a year!' said someone (not really, i'm paraphrasing), so maybe it's a half a year or less... Half a year or less is nothing, no reason not to directly compare two games progress. Half a year is only, like, the development cycle for a new line of nVidia/ATi video cards... :dozey:
The HL2 team has also expressed it's intentions to release media and content upgrade to support the continuing advances in graphics hardware technology. Whether they follow through or not, this may mean that the point where we can decide which game has better graphics may not end with the initial release of either game comercially. One or either may continue to be upgraded, though I don't know anything concerning the 'Stalker' team's intentions to do something to this effect.
....Besides, 3 months -AND- six months is an eternity, when I have special and secret information of a blockbuster new graphics engine, long in development, that may blow them all away.
Brace yourself.
WOW!!
Stunning. It even has polygons!So, really, this discussion will not be decided here...
Anyway, the real test of a game is of it's gameplay. The gameplay of both games will (hopefully) be amazing, engrossing, and wonderful. And the engines that these gameplay matters were designed to support will likely complement such design in way we outsiders cannot know, without seeing them in person, or working alongside the developers.
Personally, I see the havok-based physics simulation of HL2 to be it's potential coup de grace, and whether Stalker has any revoltionary elements may decide it's success. There is also glory to be found in the evolutionary advance as well. A game that can be much like it's predecessors, yet more refined and perfected across the board, well, it's likely to be quite a work, and very successful. This includes graphics, but the mechanics of gameplay will be far more important in determining it's enduring success. Valve has chosen to make MOD support a priority, as hlaf-lifes success was lagely determined by this factor. The Strider team need not do this to be a seller, but it must do many other things right, as any game designer must.
I must admit, this pic is really cool though. Look at the reflection on the tiles!!!
:Ehttp://www.gamedev***/articles/indust/20030612_4.jpg
I'm sure they'll both be wonderful. Not equally so to all, of course...
-Phision
Phisionary
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yeah i know, it's a typo, sorry...
-Phision
-Phision
Styloid
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I don't see how you can argue so much about graphics when Valve has toned theirs down for the sake of gameplay, atmosphere and storytelling, while Stalker seems to be a mishmash of everything they can throw in. Even then, I still see HL2 to be a more cohesive looking piece of work (to me graphics would include the design and architecture of the levels, thought-out texturing, consistent use of special effects, etc). When I look at the pictures, I try to forget about all that technical jargon and biases and just pick the one I like best (I honestly didn't really notice the HL2 water that much). Just look at them holistically.
In terms of gameplay, I respect games that are trying to be non-linear (Deus Ex 1 and 2) but I do not see that as revolutionary; more like a really old idea that no one has done properly to get tired of yet. Rather, I see the potential in HL2's introduction of advancing character interaction to an emotional level, storytelling to a more dramatic level, story structure to a more compelling level and maybe turn computer games into an art (would you rather watch 'Chinatown', or your 'My Trip to Chinatown' home video?), as revolutionary.
But I guess it's all a matter of taste.
In terms of gameplay, I respect games that are trying to be non-linear (Deus Ex 1 and 2) but I do not see that as revolutionary; more like a really old idea that no one has done properly to get tired of yet. Rather, I see the potential in HL2's introduction of advancing character interaction to an emotional level, storytelling to a more dramatic level, story structure to a more compelling level and maybe turn computer games into an art (would you rather watch 'Chinatown', or your 'My Trip to Chinatown' home video?), as revolutionary.
But I guess it's all a matter of taste.
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