Halflife2.net Minecraft Server Discussion

[Viperidae]

The point is that people go into this to show off.

You know why that Enterprise video has so many views? Because people at first think that the guy made it manually. That would have taken insane amounts of time, effort, and perseverence. It would have been an awesome display of patience.

My friends and I mined over 360 gold to make the most valuable room on the old map. Would it be as impressive if everyone had a room like that? Of course not.

No one gives a shit if you dupe. At the end of the day I'll have pride in my project that didn't require duping. You won't.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Actually, the main reason that I like making stuff in Minecraft as opposed to Hammer, or modelling them, is that you have to work for it. Need more wood? Go find some trees (I tend to set up a sapling farm) Need more dirt? Go digging!
Each to their own, obviously.

 

[Viperidae]

I don't think our reasons are incompatible, pi. Mine includes yours by implication. I was speaking in the grander sense, like that of a cabinet maker working on a project: sure, you could buy a table at Ikea, but that speaks nothing to the accomplishment of building it yourself.

 

[Krynn72]

I'm going to dup 100,000 obsidian and encase whatever ZT is working on in a solid room of it.

And then pour lava all over it, with 10,000 lavas.

 

[Paulaner]

In this kind of game, with this kind of gameplay, duping IS cheating and makes everything sort of pointless.

 

[Vegeta897]

Why? Please explain to me what sort of detriment duping has on our server, or our server users?

Oh look, an argument I never made. Cute.

It's exploiting. Just like dropping tools and then picking them up again to gain their full health, is an exploit. And do you do that all the time? Does everyone on this server support that action? Hell yes.

I was against it at first. But after learning everyone did it, I realized that it was really more of a convenience thing. Do not even pretend like you can compare this exploit to duping a bunch of diamonds so you can create a giant pyramid of diamond and gold. What viper said, basically.

It's convenience vs. completely destroying the point of the game, minecraft.

Go join a freebuild server if you want to freebuild so badly.

Oh look, an argument I never made. Cute.

Then what the hell were you saying in that sentence? It really made no sense at all.

 

[MJ12]

At the end of the day I'll have pride in my project that didn't require duping. You won't.

At the end of the day I have 10 additional hours to work, sleep, study, and jerk off. You won't.

 

[Vegeta897]

At the end of the day I have 10 additional hours to work, sleep, study, and jerk off. You won't.

Are you trolling? Honestly.

LOL YOU GUYS ARE LOSERS SPENDING ALL YOUR TIME MINING SHIT IN MINECRAFT, BRB JERKING OFF

 

[MJ12]

LOL YOU GUYS ARE LOSERS DUPING, I HAVE MY PRIDE.

 

[Viperidae]

At the end of the day I have 10 additional hours to work, sleep, study, and jerk off. You won't.

Why study for a test when you can just cheat?

Why learn to cook for yourself when your mom can just do it for you?

Why play a game normally when you can just turn on godmode?

Aw, someone got butthurt when they realised they don't actually enjoy playing this game. QQ, etc.

 

[Vegeta897]

PRIDE.

So why do you even play on a server? If you don't care about people being impressed with your creations. We're such losers for feeling proud of creating art, and feeling good when we know we spent the time playing the game we all love (oops, not you) to be able to make this art.

 

[comradesean]

Thanks everyone. I never had any plans to move out of my tiny sandhut, but now I really want to make a giant diamond castle that reaches to the stars.

On another note, you guys are taking this way too seriously. And Automagically repairing equipment removes half the gameplay of constantly watching and restoring your weapons from destruction as well. You can't just shrug that off.

 

[MJ12]

So why do you even play on a server? If you don't care about people being impressed with your creations. We're such losers for feeling proud of creating art, and feeling good when we know we spent the time playing the game we all love (oops, not you) to be able to make this art.

Uh, I never said that people who spend time mining everything are "losers". My "At the end of the day I have 10 additional hours to work, sleep, study, and jerk off", was a sarcastic remark to Viperidae's high and mighty, shame on you, "At the end of the day I'll have pride in my project that didn't require duping. You won't" comment. And it seems quite evident that most people here have this holier than thou attitude about duping some extra obsidian. That has been my point; why the hell does anyone care if you find a chest filled with a few duped items? So someone didn't want to spend the extra 7 hours finding diamond. Get over it.

If you want to mine every single thing, that's fantastic, but don't go crying when someone *gasp* doesn't have time.

 

[Viperidae]

Viperidae's high and mighty, shame on you comment.

No one gives a shit if you dupe. At the end of the day I'll have pride in my project that didn't require duping. You won't.

Oh look, an argument I never made. Cute.

It's a conjecture, bro: my experience of the game will be more enjoyable than yours, and people will respect you less.

Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame!

 

[Paulaner]

At the end of the day I have 10 additional hours to work, sleep, study, and jerk off. You won't.

Are you serious?

 

[MJ12]

and people will respect you less.

No respect from Vegeta? But he's the most popular boy in school?!

Thanks everyone. I never had any plans to move out of my tiny sandhut, but now I really want to make a giant diamond castle that reaches to the stars.

Screw that, let's build a diamond sky, completely blocking out the sun. When people look up, they will know that we are cooler than they are.

Vegeta will say "Hey guys, check out my sweet bookcase collection." And we'll say, "Oh cool. But did you notice we made the sky out of ****ing diamond?"

 

[morgs]

...and then we will say "Yeah but Vegeta worked for his!"

 

[venturon]

Could I get on the whitelist? My handle is creamyelephant.

Anyone have any cool ideas for a building project? I'm not sure what to build next :S

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Added.

 

[Bad^Hat]

If you want to mine every single thing, that's fantastic, but don't go crying when someone *gasp* doesn't have time.

Oh no I don't have the time to mine 500 obsidian and diamond for my super extravagant, time-consuming project. ;( ;( ;(

Anyway, sure, they're just digital blocks in a video game. Everyone knows that, I don't think anyone here is lacking perspective on what we're talking about. However, you're still effectively saying "well if it's too hard, what's the problem with cheating?" We use the tool dropping bug because it's convenient - it lets us mine more stuff without having to sink non-renewable and hard to come by resources (diamonds) into making more. It saves a great deal of wasteful busy work and lets us get on with the game, but yeah it's an exploit. The main difference between this and duping is that it's been 'agreed' upon to be okay. We've been doing it since the start, and most everyone acknowledges that it serves a useful purpose and doesn't go too far against the point of the game.

But let's be clear for a moment - the multiplayer is still in early testing. These are temporary measures to facilitate the current playstyle of survival multiplayer, which is more or less creative with a few major exceptions. It's not "survival" yet because there's no emphasis on surviving (recent health changes notwithstanding), we're just building shit because we can. However, to say it's not important to have an even playing field, and for everyone to work for their creations even if it doesn't directly effect anyone else is a bit of a stretch. If I go out of my way to build something impressive, and then the next jackoff builds something comparable right next to it but with half the effort, then yeah, I'm going to feel a little hard done by. Is that so difficult to understand?

But hey, if someone else wants to dupe items, I'm not going to demand they be banned or anything unless they're being a dick about it or building ridiculous shit everywhere, because chances are it probably won't effect my experience. However, it absolutely does go against the point of the game because that's how we choose to play it. It's not just a few elitist Minecrafters being "holier than thou" or whatever, that is the agreed-upon method of playing at the moment. No, we don't have any rules or concrete authority in place just yet, but if you take shortcuts to achieve the same ends as others, then yeah, they probably aren't going to think too highly of you or your creations. Don't like it? Don't care? Then why even bother playing with us.

Finally, the implication that it's unfair for some people because they don't have as much time to grind out materials as others is just silly. Yeah, you might not be able to make that mega-super-diamond fortress that blocks out the sun or something, but so ****ing what? We're all putting in as much time as we can or want to, but it's not a race. Even the most ambitious project can be completed eventually, regardless of how much time you can invest per day/week/month, so why hurry? Bottom line: if you can't put in the effort, maybe just don't stress about not being able to build something so ****ing extravagant. After all, IT'S JUST A GAME(tm) etc.

Anyway, this kind of thing would be so much easier to deal with if we had a unified rules/guidelines thread. I've been wanting to create one for ages, but there's not much point until we have a consistent server with consistent admins.

Edit: Yep. Thems some words. :dork:

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

New map render: http://www.nealeroberts.com/minecraft

 

[lord_raken]

I'm not on the whitelist

its Lord_Raken (with caps)

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

You should be now.

 

[MJ12]

it's convenient - it lets us mine more stuff without having to sink non-renewable and hard to come by resources (diamonds) into making more. It saves a great deal of wasteful busy work and lets us get on with the game, but yeah it's an exploit.

Yes, exactly the same reason people dupe.

The main difference between this and duping is that it's been 'agreed' upon to be okay. We've been doing it since the start, and most everyone acknowledges that it serves a useful purpose and doesn't go too far against the point of the game.

This is a stupid argument, you're saying that "well everyone liked it, so it's okay. Oh, and we've been doing it at the start, so it's okay", argumentum ad populum and appeal to tradition.
So with that same argument, if over time, in a few months no one cares anymore, and duping becomes common... then it will be okay?

If I go out of my way to build something impressive, and then the next jackoff builds something comparable right next to it but with half the effort, then yeah, I'm going to feel a little hard done by. Is that so difficult to understand?

I still think the fact that your feelings are hurt is not a good enough reason for people to stop duping. The fact is, most people dupe for embellishments or backup. Sure, some people dupe to make a ridiculous tower of Diamond, but oh well, I think we all know those buildings are duped anyways.

Our most recent incident with our last server and that scammer is a perfect example of why I dupe backup items; I know the multiplayer is still shaky, and I don't like risking my time.
The first time we started having these server resets, where literally, hours of your work would be reset, that's when I started duping important items as a sort of "backup" stash. In the end, I am incredibly happy I didn't spend hours upon hours finding and digging obsidian for a relatively small part of my building; because we can no longer use that server, and it seems everyone's work is in the trash. Like my giant tree house, I chopped down every log for that thing; and I regret it. I wish I would have duped some of it, because now my hours of hard work was for absolutely nothing.

then yeah, they probably aren't going to think too highly of you or your creations. Don't like it? Don't care? Then why even bother playing with us.

Because we are part of a community that knows each other and has strict rules against griefing? Anyways, I always build my shit out in the country. I don't care if you see it or not, I like building in a map where I don't have to worry about monsters or dying.

 

[Krynn72]

Yes, exactly the same reason people dupe.



This is a stupid argument, you're saying that "well everyone liked it, so it's okay. Oh, and we've been doing it at the start, so it's okay", argumentum ad populum and appeal to tradition.

I think you missed the part where he said "doesn't go too far against the point of the game."

Duping goes directly against the point of the game.

EDIT: Also, I think the server is down.

 

[Viperidae]

According to the map I set up shop on the other side of someone's mountain. Sadface.

 

[ríomhaire]

I decided to use the repair glitch because the server ate two diamond pick axes from me before and I figured I was owed them back. Similarly I might try duping if I lost items of the same value, but I don't agree with duping to gets hundreds of blocks from one block.

 

[Krynn72]

In my opinion the tool repair glitch is fair game, because Notch's balance sucks ass. Tools should last way longer than they do, especially shovels.

 

[Solaris]

I'm absolutely shocked that a long term community member like ZT would have been duping. It undermines everybody elses work by cheapening it.

Also worth noting, he didn't admit it, he was found out. I wonder what else he has done.

If he doesn't stop, I vote he is taken off the white list.

 

[lord_raken]

an Admin kicked me... why?

edit:

I think duping should be ok for things like sand, diamond or obsidian. Items that are either rare, hard to mine, or ruin the landscape (beaches).

Making a building out of obsidian would take way to long if you mined it all.

I've done some. Mostly just to get started. Once you have a nice back supply you can normally maintain it with regular mining.

 

[Krynn72]

I'm absolutely shocked that a long term community member like ZT would have been duping. It undermines everybody elses work by cheapening it.

Also worth noting, he didn't admit it, he was found out. I wonder what else he has done.

If he doesn't stop, I vote he is taken off the white list.

First off, lol.

Secondly, comradesean was caught not ZT.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

an Admin kicked me... why?

I had to restart the server.

 

[ríomhaire]

an Admin kicked me... why?

edit:

I think duping should be ok for things like sand, diamond or obsidian. Items that are either rare, hard to mine, or ruin the landscape (beaches)

Making a building out of obsidian would take way to long if you mined it all.

That's sort of why everyone is saying you shouldn't dupe diamond and obsidian.

 

[Solaris]

First off, lol.

Secondly, comradesean was caught not ZT.

Well I voteban him too then.

But really, I'm serious, duping undermines the whole thing in my eyes.

 

[Vegeta897]

It undermines everybody elses work

Quite the opposite actually.

seewhatididthere

But seriously, that is the problem everyone has with it. It just cheapens the hard work of people who are playing the game properly. Like badhat said, ZT's argument of 'not having enough time' to mine for all his materials is so stupid. If you don't have enough time to play the game, then you can't make huge superprojects like the rest of us who do have the time. That's just childish to think it's "no fair" and think you deserve the right to an advantage just to even out what you're capable of.

I think duping should be ok for things like sand, diamond or obsidian. Items that are either rare, hard to mine, or ruin the landscape (beaches).

Those items are rare for a reason. Duplicating them just cheapens that. Look at what viper said about his creation. Thanks to seeing people's massive structures of obsidian and diamond and gold on our server, I wouldn't have looked twice at Viper's thing because I wouldn't have thought he did all the hard work to acquire those materials. This is what we're talking about when we say cheapening.

And about the sand; with all these biomes, there are plenty of deserts to take sand from.

Making a building out of obsidian would take way to long if you mined it all.

Then don't make a building out of obsidian. Really I can't believe anyone would say this. "It takes too long to mine hundreds of blocks of this rare resource, we should be able to dupe it " God damn, really? Do you get the point of resources being rare?

 

[Bad^Hat]

Our most recent incident with our last server and that scammer is a perfect example of why I dupe backup items; I know the multiplayer is still shaky, and I don't like risking my time.

I'll concede to this point. It's frustrating to lose shit, and admins have even gone as far as spawning items to replace people's inventory in the past, but even this can't account for everything. It seems like there's a decent chance that this server will be the one we stick with, and people are already talking about transferring the map over when/if we change to US hosting, but the multi itself is still pretty rough and lost items/progress are par for the course.

However, I don't see how that excuses duping masses of diamond and obsidian. I take particular issue with these because they're in no way essential materials. If you've already mined a bunch and then lost them (as I have), I can kind of understand you'd want them back by any means, but when you're just duping a shitton of them out of one piece to make some ridiculous project, then no, that's stupid and I'm going to call you on it.

Anyways, I always build my shit out in the country. I don't care if you see it or not, I like building in a map where I don't have to worry about monsters or dying.

You realise this can be accomplished with peaceful mode, right? I'm not saying "get out and go play single player," but that's basically what you're describing there so I don't really understand the appeal of multiplayer to you.

In my opinion the tool repair glitch is fair game, because Notch's balance sucks ass. Tools should last way longer than they do, especially shovels.

Agreed. Of the materials used for tools, diamonds are far too difficult to find, iron is far too useful for other things (namely tracks), and stone mines too slowly and doesn't last long enough, meaning you'd have to carry half a bag of tools to mine the same as their diamond counterparts, and in double the time. I'd be fine with the tools as they are if there were some way to repair them at a tool bench or something, maybe consume some not-so-rare material like coal to do so.

Also, what Veg said.

 

[venturon]

What is the protocol with stuff like monster-spawners? I found a couple in some caves near my building site and I promptly smashed them to bits and took all the cool stuff from the chests. Something strange happened to the second one--some gravel blocks fell in its place when I mined it out and it started to emit this funky flame particle effect, much like an active furnace. Hope I didn't break anything :S

 

[Viperidae]

I don't think anyone has real problems with destroying the spawners unless they claim them.

 

[Ennui]

Ennui for the whitelist please!

 

[Higlac]

Could I have my friend "judgedredd232" added to the whitelist please?