halo gets what it deserves at hl2.net

[V-Man339]

The only reason the Halo series has ever been that great was because Halo 1 was the only half decent or at least average game on the X-Box at the time, and sadly everybody had the X-Box.
Result?
Everybody calls it the best game ever because there's nothing better on the X-Box, which at the time sucked overall (I'll admit it's gotten better but then it was half assed).
Then they released Halo 2 and everybody was friggin hyped, and I can understand that. However, the fact that Bungie is so cock-sure and snobbish about how great of game developers they are, coupled with the fact that after Halo 2 and it's hype started going overboard, everybody who didn't care for Halo kinda got annoyed by all this hype for the sequel to an overall extremely sorry game (it was good for the xbox though, as stated earlier).
The problem is the people that play it are the frat party boys and all the other main consumers who don't like to think when they use a videogame.

As far as balance goes, or if you think the multiplayer is the best thing ever, this game sucks in comparison to Team Fortress 2.
Team Fortress 2 was made for multiplayer, not a multiplayer mode wrapped around a damn sorry story line single player shell. As for balance, any noob with a sniper rifle can own any guy in the field.
Team Fortress 2 was smart to handicap the sniper moderatley so that only the skilled snipers could own people.
So if your ranting about how damn great this game is don't be surprised for me to tell you otherwise.

 

[knut]

Except that you're a ''noob'' if you do get killed by a sniper in Halo considering how much the more open maps have been polished to give each and every area enough balance to be able to hold your own against either another figure or a vehicle, or someone with rockets, or someone with a sniper. In fact, the only time snipers even come in to play for Halo 3 is in Team Snipers games or for taking out slower targets, such as people using the missile pods to take down vehicles, or people charging the Spartan Laser to take out vehicles. Other than that, anyone can avoid the snipers because of their blatently obvious sound and bullet trail - not to mention it's limited ammo and long respawn time. Apart from a few hit box issues for when you are using it, it's a weapon very rarely used for tipping the game.

You may not like it, or be good at it, but you can't deny how much empthasis Bungie puts into it's multiplayer. Yeah, it's a game shipped with a singleplayer that some people may not like, but considering how in depth the multiplayer is, I'd say they did a damn fine job working on a fully robust multiplayer that appeals to up to millions of people. They've done something right, I'll say that.

The game can't be compared to TF2 and I don't even want to go down that path (I enjoy TF2, but I get a bit bored of it after a while. Far too repetitive and samey for me, but that's me). Either way, the maps, weapons and vehicles are all fine tuned to be just as fair as when the opposition is using them. I'm not even going to go into the details as honestly, it's more of a thing I simply know and had to learn actually in the game from many rounds to fully appreciate it. Even so, it's balance can be appreciated very early on but to really see how much the battle can tip by putting a trip mine here, or by having someone control the middle ground with a Spartan Laser, and to see it happen or fail so many times due to how well the maps are put together, really does amaze me how Bungie put so much effort in to it.

Very rare to see a battle play out the same way as it did the game before, and I know that because of the awesome feature that is the Theater mode. Hell, that alone is a monumental feature that really puts Halo 3 up there as a fantastic multiplayer experience because it can be used for so many things.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

The only reason the Halo series has ever been that great was because Halo 1 was the only half decent or at least average game on the X-Box at the time

Abit like resistance then?

Also I kindof see what you guys mean but unfortunately for me I'm not a big multiplayer fan.

 

[Warbie]

The only reason the Halo series has ever been that great was because Halo 1 was the only half decent or at least average game on the X-Box at the time, and sadly everybody had the X-Box.

Wrong. Halo was great because it catered for the more combat and arcade orientated gamer in single player, provided decent co-op (not much of this around), and gave us incredibly varied multiplayer - it was Golden Eye for that generation. While virtually all fps (including those on the pc) are way too easy and have little depth to combat, Halo required a great deal of time and practise to master the campaign. Then there's the gameplay, which focusses on melee, ranged and grenades almost equally and made for a very welcome change to the years of point and click we'd been fed.

Halo 3 took the mindless co-op and gave if focus. Make the game harder and you get more points. Simple, genius - it encourages teamplay and requires a level a co-operation not found in anything else. Multiplayer is better than ever - thanks largely to the a superb Forge mode - and the single player campaign took everything great about Halo 1 and 2 and dropped most of the poorer elements. On Legendary with a few skulls added it is one of the hardest and most rewarding single player fps you can play. Theatre mode is great.

As far as balance goes, or if you think the multiplayer is the best thing ever, this game sucks in comparison to Team Fortress 2.

I love TF2 - and play religiously in a clan - but can't deny that it's a game of spamming. Simple, accessible, run around, shoot stuff. It gets better in competetive play, but is still basic (fingers crossed the new unlockables add some depth). Halo 3 is brutal against skilled opponents. Be it 2 vs. 2 or ctf, there's more tactics involved and it takes more raw skill. Very different games that shouldn't be compared like for like.

Abit like resistance then?

Naw, RFOM was fun but didn't excel in any area.

 

[giant384]

you obviously missed alot of the thread ^

ive played halo 3 alot and i can be good at it. being good at the game doesnt make it more enjoyable.

 

[knut]

I love TF2 - and play religiously in a clan - but can't deny that it's a game of spamming. Simple, accessible, run around, shoot stuff. It gets better in competetive play, but is still basic (fingers crossed the new unlockables add some depth). Halo 3 is brutal against skilled opponents. Be it 2 vs. 2 or ctf, there's more tactics involved and it takes more raw skill. Very different games that shouldn't be compared like for like.

Bang on.

Don't get me wrong, Halo multiplayer can be very spammy and be very mindless, just as much as any game can and in the same sense, has as many assholes as every other game can. All's fair at the end of the day and there's flaws for all. :cheers:

(But Assault, on Last Resort/Zanzibar... christ, you need a good team of willing bastards to crack that one.)

 

[Deleted member 56031]

Naw, RFOM was fun but didn't excel in any area.

I thought RFOM was very average personally.

 

[Emporius]

(But Assault, on Last Resort/Zanzibar... christ, you need a good team of willing bastards to crack that one.)

Agreed. I'm a big fan of the series, but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the numerous flaws that have emerged as the series progressed. Sometimes Halo is mindless shooting and running, but if you can get a good group of players together and work as a team, it's ****ing art

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

If anybody doesn't remember the Zero-Punctuation review on Halo 3, this man knows what he's talking about.

Old but, still good to hear.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

Oh yes!

 

[Glirk Dient]

If anybody doesn't remember the Zero-Punctuation review on Halo 3, this man knows what he's talking about.

Old but, still good to hear.

We already pointed out that multiplayer is the major focus of Halo 3. That guy admitted to not playing multiplayer.

Halo has the biggest competition scene of any video game to date. It has so many professional tournaments it's crazy. Halo takes an immense amount of skill at the top level. You need to learn the maps so well that you know the respawn time on every weapon/power up, all of the skill jumps to get to areas faster. You need to know what the enemy is going to do so you can counter it. You need great communication as if you watch any of the tournaments you realize they call everything out and it helps a lot.

Halo has a unique gameplay that other FPS games don't offer. Halo is less about spamming shots and more about placement of the shots and grenades. With rechargeable shields you cant spray and pray or else your enemy is going to take cover and his friends are gonna team shoot you and you will be dead so fast, even though you had the jump on the other guy. Grenades bring a lot to the competetive level. A well placed grenade will outright kill an enemy or make him a 1 shot with a BR headshot. This is huge because you can take out groups of enemies if they are dumb enough to chase after you. This game has a lot of depth to it. Those of you that think halo is about running around and shooting should add me to your friends list. I will show you how fast you can get your ass kicked by someone good. Lets see how long your running and gunning lasts.

Not to mention team dynamics are also huge. You need to have points of fire that cover multiple areas and overlap in order to finish off enemies. It's very important to have map and power weapon control. I have seen teamwork win a game even though the individual skill of the players were garbage. This game can get so deep, and that is why it's so big. It's a fun game that takes a long time to master and there are so many good people. The game remains a constant challenge. Halo is far from a run and gun game.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

IMO

While it's subsided from its initial high, there is a definite absolute minimum that is being approached.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

Yeah it does seem like that. After all about a month before halo 3 came out it seems that everyone hated it

 

[Combine Hybrid]

People in this board does not hate halo as much as sony or ps3.

 

[Glirk Dient]

People in this board does not hate halo as much as sony or ps3.

After their failure everyone has a pretty good reason to hate them. They promised something amazing and delivered a pile of shit with glitter on it. It may look decent but it's still shit.

 

[Eejit]

People in this board does not hate halo as much as sony or ps3.

Sony are dumber.

 

[nurizeko]

Liked Halo 1, couldn't give a shit for the other two.

 

[knut]

We already pointed out that multiplayer is the major focus of Halo 3. That guy admitted to not playing multiplayer.

Halo has the biggest competition scene of any video game to date. It has so many professional tournaments it's crazy. Halo takes an immense amount of skill at the top level. You need to learn the maps so well that you know the respawn time on every weapon/power up, all of the skill jumps to get to areas faster. You need to know what the enemy is going to do so you can counter it. You need great communication as if you watch any of the tournaments you realize they call everything out and it helps a lot.

Halo has a unique gameplay that other FPS games don't offer. Halo is less about spamming shots and more about placement of the shots and grenades. With rechargeable shields you cant spray and pray or else your enemy is going to take cover and his friends are gonna team shoot you and you will be dead so fast, even though you had the jump on the other guy. Grenades bring a lot to the competetive level. A well placed grenade will outright kill an enemy or make him a 1 shot with a BR headshot. This is huge because you can take out groups of enemies if they are dumb enough to chase after you. This game has a lot of depth to it. Those of you that think halo is about running around and shooting should add me to your friends list. I will show you how fast you can get your ass kicked by someone good. Lets see how long your running and gunning lasts.

Not to mention team dynamics are also huge. You need to have points of fire that cover multiple areas and overlap in order to finish off enemies. It's very important to have map and power weapon control. I have seen teamwork win a game even though the individual skill of the players were garbage. This game can get so deep, and that is why it's so big. It's a fun game that takes a long time to master and there are so many good people. The game remains a constant challenge. Halo is far from a run and gun game.

Pretty much spot on - and that's just for Team Slayer! CTF, Assault and Territories are as much a thinking mans game but with the added elements of not only having to think about pinning the opposition down, but also at how you're going to make your point of entry into their base. Blitzkrieg in, dual Warthogs, chain-guns spinnin'? Single man drop off out the sky in a Banshee and into the Mancannon with the Flag? Crouch down, sneaky entry with a power drainer to cover your blind spots? It may sound like a good 3 or 4 options only, but countered by a team with a good defense it really does require a lot of communications and teamwork.

People can call Halo singleplayer a mindless shooting range all they want - you're spot on. But the multiplayer, with the only elements to the actual Halo story remaining being the environments, character you play as and weapons you use, is a totally different world.

I don't like playing games like Hardcore or BR, MLG as much as the bog standard BTB Team Slayer game, but regardless, I do enjoy a good lot of teamwork and in the end, that is the defining edge that's going to win the match. This can be said for any game, but Halo 3's multiplayer gets a lot of flak for being overwise when it's quite obviously not.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Best tactical moment I ever had was when I threw down a power drain at a warthog full of the bets players on the other team. I proceeded to kill them, as they wondered WTF just happened.
I got an OVERKILL!

 

[Emporius]

I got an OVERKILL!

I've gotten an invincible...

 

[knut]

The power drainer is such a kickass peice of equipment. So many people overlook the equipment when it can really define how a scenario plays out. Damned annoying when the Warthog you're gunning suddenly screams to a halt because of one, but I'll tell you, there's nothing more satisfiying then waiting for a Banshee to make another pass at your base on Valhalla, waiting, then hurling a power drain into the Mancannon and have it fly right into the Banshee mid-flight.

Or better yet, a plasma grenade.

 

[V-Man339]

If you are going to splurt how the Halo series requires so much "skill" to be good at, and that when teams work together its a "piece of art" and especially that certain pieces of equipment change the scenarios (flash grenades), then I have just two words for you: Counter Strike.

Now if your going to tell me Halo has a bigger online community, do the research and find out that techincally Counter Strike has the biggest online community of any first person shooter.

If you say that Halo has more professional tournaments, yes it does but Counter Strike sure as hell has a shit-load more servers overall.

Balance wise, Counter Strike sure as hell doesn't beat Halo, but that's where Team Fortress 2 comes in, and just about every counterpoint I've listed will work for Tf2 in some way as well.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

"change the scenario" is an extremely broad aspect to be using to compare it to CS. The way they change it and the different strategies that they can be used is what matters. CS is a drastically different game to be playing.

 

[Glirk Dient]

If you are going to splurt how the Halo series requires so much "skill" to be good at, and that when teams work together its a "piece of art" and especially that certain pieces of equipment change the scenarios (flash grenades), then I have just two words for you: Counter Strike.

Now if your going to tell me Halo has a bigger online community, do the research and find out that techincally Counter Strike has the biggest online community of any first person shooter.

If you say that Halo has more professional tournaments, yes it does but Counter Strike sure as hell has a shit-load more servers overall.

Balance wise, Counter Strike sure as hell doesn't beat Halo, but that's where Team Fortress 2 comes in, and just about every counterpoint I've listed will work for Tf2 in some way as well.

Halo and CS are nothing alike. CS is a twitch game, halo is all about tactics. Its all about who shoots who first in CS, whereas in Halo half the time I am at a disadvantage at the start of the fight yet use my position/grenades/team mates to take advantage of the situation. Halo has so much more depth. CS all there is to know are the weapons and maps. Halo has way more than that. They aren't anything alike at all. They are completely different games. BTW I doubt CS still has 500k people playing every night, and if you knew anything about console games or have ever played one online you don't host dedicated servers. Halo uses matchmaking and creates a temp server so Halo would have a lot more servers, by far as it creates new ones every time and always fills them up.

 

[Qonfused]

That brought a tear to my eye.

 

[giant384]

Halo and CS are nothing alike. CS is a twitch game, halo is all about tactics. Its all about who shoots who first in CS, whereas in Halo half the time I am at a disadvantage at the start of the fight yet use my position/grenades/team mates to take advantage of the situation. Halo has so much more depth. CS all there is to know are the weapons and maps. Halo has way more than that. They aren't anything alike at all. They are completely different games. BTW I doubt CS still has 500k people playing every night, and if you knew anything about console games or have ever played one online you don't host dedicated servers. Halo uses matchmaking and creates a temp server so Halo would have a lot more servers, by far as it creates new ones every time and always fills them up.

LOL that is pure bullshit. halo...more tactic. only huge difference is that you have a dumbass shield which recharges and that would be the only gameplay tactic. there isnt much else to halo. the game is in no way really tactical at all; its all common sense in an fps shooter.

 

[Stigmata]

Halo uses matchmaking and creates a temp server so Halo would have a lot more servers, by far as it creates new ones every time and always fills them up.

Nope. Halo uses the Xbox of the player with the best internet connection as a dual client/server. If that person drops out, the game pauses and a new "server" is chosen.

Also, Halo is deeper than Counter-Strike only because it has vehicles and more gametypes. There's just as much tactical thought and strategic planning in both games. Tournaments in both games are equally brutal and skillful.

 

[Tyguy]

we get it, he likes blending things

 

[Kyorisu]

Halo and CS are nothing alike. CS is a twitch game, halo is all about tactics. Its all about who shoots who first in CS, whereas in Halo half the time I am at a disadvantage at the start of the fight yet use my position/grenades/team mates to take advantage of the situation. Halo has so much more depth. CS all there is to know are the weapons and maps. Halo has way more than that. They aren't anything alike at all. They are completely different games. BTW I doubt CS still has 500k people playing every night, and if you knew anything about console games or have ever played one online you don't host dedicated servers. Halo uses matchmaking and creates a temp server so Halo would have a lot more servers, by far as it creates new ones every time and always fills them up.

You have just shown you know crap all about the subject. Buy strat what is?

 

[knut]

LOL that is pure bullshit. halo...more tactic. only huge difference is that you have a dumbass shield which recharges and that would be the only gameplay tactic. there isnt much else to halo. the game is in no way really tactical at all; its all common sense in an fps shooter.

Perfect example of someone who hasn't put any time into Halo save one or two games. That, or someone who has always been on the other end of a shoe'ing from a better team.

V-man, no one is saying it is better or worse than CS. In fact, I or anyone else didn't even say it had a larger community or requires more or less tactics. My point was that if you call Halo MP mindless then.... well, you're wrong. There's nothing more to it. As me and others have already said, the game requires a lot of thought, communication, carefull planning and teamwork. Granted, not essential areas of play to make the game something you enjoy which is fair enough, but calling it mindless or run and gun is just odd.

It appears you, like giant, haven't given the game the time of the day at all.

 

[Unfocused]

Liked Halo 1, couldn't give a shit for the other two.

Same here.

I enjoyed Halo, the only part where I was bored and a bit pissed was running around in the sewer-like environment fighting the plague. Haven't played multiplayer.

I don't understand the 'hate'. You don't like it? Cool. Why hate?

BTW, since it's so common to compare Halo and HL2, the latter is better IMHO, but driving the Warthog in Halo was so much more fun than the buggy in HL2.

 

[Warbie]

I don't see the point in these comparisons. TF2, Halo, CS - all very different games. I happen to have played all three of these at clan level, though, and get the distinct impression that some of you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Tactics in Halo are more varied than either of these games. Fact. There's more gametypes, weapons, vehicles and types of equipment. You have to be good with nades, melee and ranged, and use the shield well - which takes more know how than many realise. This doesn't make it better or easier to master, but there are more options and it does require practise in a broader range of skills. While accuracy is important, it takes a back seat to situational awareness - the way to kill fast in Halo is to gang up and co-operation plays a bigger roll in teamplay than other online shooters i've played. You'll either be saving your buddy, he'll be saving you, or you've lost.

TF2 is focussed entirely around the uber - which is why it's such a stop and start game in matches. Build uber, attack/defend, build uber attack/defend. The maps aren't balanced particularly well and games are often won and lost at exactly the same point (take Granary - a frantic battle for the center point and that's pretty much it). What I like about TF2 is the complete focus on teamplay over tactics, which hardly come into it. Once youve decided on classes and very rough positions all you do is play your class and stick together. Sounds easy, but the trick is doing this simple thing better than the other team. Watching two teams collide into each other, both popping their uber and watching the medics switching it up, is almost an art form

CS is timing rushes or responding to them, which is takes serious teamwork. Deaths happen very quickly, there's no spawning, and much focus is on being the fastest and most accurate. It's a team game for indidiuals and heroes. It may be tactical in a traditinal sense - choke points, crossfire - but is fairly limited and maps are usually played the same way. If we want to make a distinction between two games it should be this and Halo. In CS it's entirely possible to take out 2,3,4 opponents in a matter of seconds simply by being a great shot. In Halo you'll have to be working with a teammate to achieve similar results.

Each game offers an experience very different to the other and each is great.

 

[CrazyHarij]

CS will always be the king of online slaughter, there's no contesting that. tf2 however is a pretty shitty attempt to create a teamwork friendly game imho, the classes all contribute to a team but aren't fun to play if you have any incentive to play for yourself. the most annoying thing is the unbalanced weaponry. RTCW:ET is the most teamwork encouraging game by far. halo is just plain ****ing fun, no matter what you're into there's a mode for it

 

[Warbie]

Aye, RTCW contains each element that I love about these 3 shooters - it is still the pinnacle of teambased fps (ET was almost as good )

The weapons in TF2 suddenly become unbalanced in matches - which are 6 v 6, limited to one medic, and no more than 2 of any other class. Much, much better than the chaos that is public servers.

 

[99.vikram]

Aye, RTCW contains each element that I love about these 3 shooters - it is still the pinnacle of teambased fps (ET was almost as good )

Isn't ET the same as RTCW multiplayer?

And please stop calling Halo MP tactical, it's good fun but half the game types degenerate into spamfests.

 

[knut]

Isn't ET the same as RTCW multiplayer?

And please stop calling Halo MP tactical, it's good fun but half the game types degenerate into spamfests.

In which, whoever does make the game degenerate so, will always probably lose.

I don't like ''challenging'' people per se, but if you don't think it's tactical, try and play CTF against me and my mates who work as a team. If you can run in, spamming grenades and firing random bursts, get the flag, then get back across the map without using any help from team mates and/or vehicles, then I'll be impressed.

 

[giant384]

To TheAntipop,

every halo game i have played,whether it be halo pc or halo 3; i have never seen any tactics at all. it has just been run and gun. so dont assume that im all ignorant because you think you are the ultimate master of halo. if you truly think its a tactical game, then i recommend you get a better game now.

 

[Warbie]

Isn't ET the same as RTCW multiplayer?

And please stop calling Halo MP tactical, it's good fun but half the game types degenerate into spamfests.

ET was very similar, but introduced the Covert Opps class and mines, which are both are lame as hell. The maps weren't as good or as balanced (although I did like Gold Rush and Oasis) and there was more emphasis on chaos over tight teamplay. A diluted RTCW, but still very good.

Half the gametypes in Halo may be fragfests, but the other half aren't. It can be extremely tactical and teambased if you like, or a bit of fun - it all depends on who you're playing with, against, and what you want to do. That's the beauty of Halo 3.

 

[Stigmata]

To TheAntipop,

every halo game i have played,whether it be halo pc or halo 3; i have never seen any tactics at all. it has just been run and gun. so dont assume that im all ignorant because you think you are the ultimate master of halo. if you truly think its a tactical game, then i recommend you get a better game now.

And every time I hop onto a CS 1.6 or CS Source server, the whole thing is just a big tactics-free spam- and camp-fest.

So uh, that "but it's nothing but run-and-gun spamming in public games!" argument goes both ways.

 

[Qonfused]

I think any game can be tactical (to a point) if people treat it that way. Most, however, don't and most games are run-and-guns.