Has Valve made a Gordon model?

[Brian Damage]

Ok, but they will have to make the dialoges extremely well so that it doesnt end up being lame.

According to the reviews, they certainly seem to have done so...

 

[PooSlice]

Hmmm I dont recall ever being disturbed by my arm at all in OFP.

"Because ncps are controlled by A.I so animations can be made for each part of their movements. A human player is free to move where ever they please so you cant animate them correctly.

Also they wanted to stay true to the feel of HL1. Not everything boils down to realism, sometimes you just gonna do what feels right for the sake of gameplay."

The AI can still control your facial animation even if you are playing, have you ever seen BF1942? When you shoot he grins and when he stands still he breathes with his mouth and such, it really looks good.

"Also they wanted to stay true to the feel of HL1. Not everything boils down to realism, sometimes you just gonna do what feels right for the sake of gameplay."

Well yeah, I think gameplay is so much better than realism. I loved the first beta versions of CS but now it totally blows with all the "so called realism".
Anyway Its such a annoying thing not to be able to have mirrors or reflecting water.
Oh well you cant have everything.

 

[Homercidal]

This ranks right up there with the shadow "bug", except the shadow problem is actually a bug, even if it's not a gamestopper, while Gordon's not having a reflection or hands or feet is a decision that Valve made for whatever reason.

It seems to have worked for HL1, and form all of the responses from people who have played it, it seems to be working for HL2. I could see where it might perturb some people who are drawn to nitpicking, like complaining because 6 hours has passed and the position of the sun did not change, or stuff like that.

I fully expect to not notice missing hands or reflections while playing.

 

[PooSlice]

"It seems to have worked for HL1, and form all of the responses from people who have played it, it seems to be working for HL2."
Well then why not make the game with the HL1 engine, it worked back then

 

[Ghost Freeman]

Wow. All the posts about you still being Gordon does not take away from the fact that there should be a model.

 

[UKchaos2]

Wow. All the posts about you still being Gordon does not take away from the fact that there should be a model.

Are the points i made above not valid enough reasons?

 

[Ghost Freeman]

What about hit detection? Just can't run around with a huge box all day.

 

[UKchaos2]

What about hit detection? Just can't run around with a huge box all day.

Um. No idea what your talking about there.

 

[Homercidal]

PooSlice
Headcrab

"It seems to have worked for HL1, and form all of the responses from people who have played it, it seems to be working for HL2."
Well then why not make the game with the HL1 engine, it worked back then

Or, better yet, they could take the features that worked well in the past, like a real story, and shortened load times, and letting the player think of Gordon's responses, and add them to things that can be improved upon technically, like graphics and AI.

Other games have tried to control the players dialogue and I think it tends to distract from the gameplay more. I don't care if they put a reflection in the game for Gordon, it would not distract form the game unless they were stupid about it, but I dont' care if they don't either.

The fact is that there is a model for Gordon, even if it's not used in the SP game (as Valve has indicated already).

 

[Homercidal]

What about hit detection? Just can't run around with a huge box all day.

You dont' need a model for hit detection. They can build hitboxes and make them invisible to the player. Since the player can't see himself, it suffices and is more efficient.

 

[Absinthe]

This is the lamest discussion ive ever heard.
The fanboys just sucking up everything valve tells you to.

Or maybe we just have valid reasons for defending the design choices they made.

Oh no, wait. If I disagree with you, I must obviously be a Valve fanboy. Baaaad fanboy. Baaaaad fanboy.

To not be able to see Gordon is the stupidest thing ever, how about that camera in the e3 video? What will happen when it pointed at you? To make it more immersive, yeah right.

As has been stated before, that scene in E3 was just to show what the Source engine was capable of. You will never see yourself in camera throughout the course of Half-Life 2. So your argument isn't really relevant.

Then make the game like Thief 3 where you could see you hands feets and so. That was immersive. Yeah and dont tell me that valve didnt make any hands driving the buggy to make it more immersive. BS they werent able to or didnt want to.

Thief 3's player movement was also FAR DIFFERENT FROM HALF-LIFE'S. I could also bring up an argument here about the lack of congruence when it comes to player model movement/gamer's movement, but I don't feel like typing out a couple of paragraphs on that (like I have so many other times).

No talking, wow what an awsome idea! Instead of having your character interact with other he will be an associal psycopat cast out of society.

It's a far better alternative. Your other options include:

1) Giving Gordon a voice. This not only causes the player to lose sync with the game, but also undermines the genuine reaction the player feels, especially when your character starts saying things you would never say or were even thinking about.

2) Text choices. Perhaps accomponied with a voice. Yay! Let's include dialogue choices whenever a player "Uses" an NPC, and we can have a nice text box coming up and the player can click on what he wants Gordon to say! Nevermind that this would disrupt consistency.

Dont defend crap with crappy arguments, it will be a great game but to think that it wont have any defects is totally wrong.

I don't think it will be perfect, but I still see the reasoning behind Valve's design choices. Furthermore, I agree with them.

To me I don't put much weight in nastolgea (I don't bother to correct much spelling either). Hey, I can agree that some of the things they choose to do make HL what it is. But others are just rediculous. Gorden not talking and not seeing himself in a mirror is a lil dumb.

You are never going to get a chance to see yourself in a mirror. Any mirrors in the game most likely will not be placed in a position so that you would be able to view your player model. This argument is not valid.

You also seem to forget that Half-Life 2 is a sequel. What you want to change would disrupt continuity, and Half-Life 2 would no longer be a "Half-Life" game.

PS. read some more and realise your all picking the easy arguement again. Defend the game that exists instead of the game it could have been. Well lah tee dah. Like that's hard to do. I am starting to think your all not very creative.

With the design choices you're advocating, the game that "could have been" would have most likely been far less unique and most certainly far less great.
It's ridiculous that you accuse us of picking the easy argument. Anybody can criticize. It takes balls to stand up for what you believe in.

Operation flashpoint did it, why is it not possible for valve?

It's not a question of wether or not it's possible. It's a question of wether or not it fits in the game. As it currently stands, not being able to see yourself animate prevents a breach in immersion.

The AI can still control your facial animation even if you are playing, have you ever seen BF1942? When you shoot he grins and when he stands still he breathes with his mouth and such, it really looks good.

I'm sure it could look... decent. But it would go against Valve's design philosophy. If the Gordon model looks scared when you're merely excited, or looks sad when you're actually laughing, then immersion is killed.
Again, it's not a question of wether it's possible. It is possible. But it would look and feel strange, and HL2 would be a lesser game for it.

What about hit detection? Just can't run around with a huge box all day.

I'm not gonna say there won't be a model, because I honestly wouldn't know. Either way, I couldn't care. There could very well be one...

...But that doesn't mean it's going to skinned and perfected for the player to see.

 

[UKchaos2]

Hitboxes are not the same as the model. It doesnt calcuate per polygon, its more simplified than that.

 

[Brian Damage]

The hitboxes in Hl2 are more refined, IIRC. And they're not neccessarily box-shaped. I think the hitboxes and physics hulls are one-and-the-same. They should be fairly closely-fitting, yet of lower detail than the model itself, thus saving memory and processing power while giving fairly accurate collision/hit detection.

 

[PooSlice]

To each his own eh?
Well I think ive made my point.

 

[Silent Sn][per]

But if there is reflective water, wouldnt we have to be able to see ourselves? So maybe they do have one, or we just cant see ourselves in water.

 

[Absinthe]

But if there is reflective water, wouldnt we have to be able to see ourselves? So maybe they do have one, or we just cant see ourselves in water.

I'd like to give an answer to that, but I honestly don't know how that will work out. Either way, I don't think it can be good. If they show the reflection, then it goes against all the reasoning I previously talked about. If they don't show a reflection, it looks odd.

So I think this is probably going to be one of those things that keeps HL2 from being absolutely perfect. But I doubt I'm going to give a shit when I'm actually playing the game.

 

[Fliko]

Hell, there has to be a gordon model, why go through making one of the most anticapted(sp?) first person shooter games on the PC and not make a gordon model, it would be kinda cheap, and if you are Gordon, and there is no model, wouldn't that mean there is no gordon? You can't be someone that interacts with other people and with enemies spotting you without a body (or something to make it so they can see you), correct?

 

[chizzler]

I'd like to give an answer to that, but I honestly don't know how that will work out. Either way, I don't think it can be good. If they show the reflection, then it goes against all the reasoning I previously talked about. If they don't show a reflection, it looks odd.

So I think this is probably going to be one of those things that keeps HL2 from being absolutely perfect. But I doubt I'm going to give a shit when I'm actually playing the game.

I remember seeing the reflection in Doom3 for the first time in the demo (in the bathroom). It was laughable! he was a static face with awkward jerky movements that were extremely unlifelike. Gordon can't be made to do small guestures like Alyx when it's you playing him, so he'll look like a robot in the mirror. Also, it would take very unusual circumstances to see a water reflection of Gordon. This is because (from waht I gathered from the vids) when you look down at the water at a high enough angle, the water becomes transparent, which physically makes sense (snell's law - angle of incidence is too high for reflection). SO you will never see a reflection.

Of course the model was still created. There is no doubt about that.

 

[Homercidal]

LOL! I remember the first time my Doom guy looked in the mirror in the bathroom. Just about shat myself! Something I did not expect to happen. still, once that wore off, his movements were very disappointing.

 

[AIEGET]

As far as I'm concerned Valve is doing the right thing with Gordon not having a voice. Reflections are iffy, not having the opportunity to see your reflection would probably be best, as they don't need to have mirrors. But the not having hands worries me. It's not so obvious with the buggy but I got a shock when I first saw Gordon hop into the hovercraft and there were no hands on the handlebars. If Valve can show hands holding guns then they can show them steering vehicles as well.

 

[UKchaos2]

If Valve can show hands holding guns then they can show them steering vehicles as well.
Reply With Quote

Nope, because weapon models are seperate from the game world, there just floating models in front of the player's viewpoint.

 

[Homercidal]

Damn. This game is gonna be like a 20-hour hrdon. Just lock myself in my room and play with it! :thumbs:

 

[Kazreal]

Yes, that I didn't like either. I threw myself in front of bullets to save my fellow scientists. I first thought about it in On a Rail, where one of the marines says something like "All I know is he [Gordon] killed my buddies". That made me think, there are tons of marines that are outside the base, that hadn't been killing anyone or etc., they're just on guard duty, but I am killing their friends and have to kill them, too. It also struck me how these marines have no clue what's going on (confirmed in Opposing Force).

And in Surface Tension, there was something ugly about waiting for the marines and aliens to duke it out, and then go in and finish off the marines. They were doing the same thing as me at that point, protecting Earth against the invaders!

I hope HL2 will also have some things that aren't 100% right morally. Oh, and I'm hoping for a surprise appearance by Corporal Sheppard in the game. Would be nice to see him meet Gordon.

And Houndeyes! How could you kill such adorable Aliens?
I saved all of the barnicles I could, so something survived
from Xen...

Come to think of it, barnicles would make great garbage disposals...

Assuming you remembered to let go of what you fed them

 

[Ghost Freeman]

Damn. This game is gonna be like a 20-hour hrdon. Just lock myself in my room and play with it! :thumbs:

Some commercials say having a hardon for 4 hours straight is a serious medical condition and it requires immediate medical attention.

 

[Homercidal]

Some commercials say having a hardon for 4 hours straight is a serious medical condition and it requires immediate medical attention.

Yeah, well if they were married they'd realize that hrdons don't get much attention. ;(

 

[Solver]

And Houndeyes! How could you kill such adorable Aliens?
I saved all of the barnicles I could, so something survived
from Xen...

Come to think of it, barnicles would make great garbage disposals...

Assuming you remembered to let go of what you fed them

Oh yeah Houndeyes were very cute, they moved in such a funny fashion and made cute noises. I even spared some of them that I could avoid.
Barnacles, though, are ugly and make ugly sounds. Shoot them all the way .