Havok Physics in MP2 gives you an idea about Hl2...

To be honest, Max Payne 2 hasn't killed my enthusiasm for Half-Life 2, it's actually made me anticipate it more! The physics in MP2 are great, but it's all eye candy. The physics don't actually "do" anything in the game. They're just a gimmick.

From the little I've seen of Half-Life 2, Valve is incorporating physics into the gameplay in an unprecedented way, and I'm really looking forward to it!

Oh yeah, and I also loved the line, "Well, that was fun...in a really f*cking sick not-at-all-fun kind of way!"
 
How long did HL2 spend in development? Five years. How about MP2 (no seriously)? Effort reflects quality, and Havok was brand-spanking new in 1998 (oh how dandy, just in time for HL2's development), but it hasn't grown old yet. Oh no, and with Valve's care, it is the newest kid on the block, and he has a brand new titanium and electronic tricycle to show off.

This also means that HL2 logically and factually has better ragdolls and physics modelling. We just won't get a chance to fully appreciate them until we get our meathooks on the finished product.
 
Why cant you people like more than one game? I hate fanboys.
 
Originally posted by Ender01
Why cant you people like more than one game? I hate fanboys.
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no shit, and hey idiot up there a ways who makes his own games...what have I played of yours?
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
The physics in MP2 are great, but it's all eye candy. The physics don't actually "do" anything in the game. They're just a gimmick.
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I agree with you mostly, but it is fun to play with the stuff. I just hit chapter 2, part 2 and instead of hanging my head out over the balcony I booted over 3 of them red barrels and then shot one of them to blow up the whole damn first floor. That is the physics allowing me to do "something". :cheers:

...look around, you can use physics to your advantage
 
lol i dl'd the game, and beat it all in the same day

you can't tell me that when you shoot a guy, he gets knocked back into a table, the table the boxes on the table the wood and paint can next to the table and other misc. shit goes flying around him as he falls through, all ragdoll, then gets back up for me to shoot him again.. isn't incredibly amazing cool.. or kicking in slow-mo and purposefully pounding a guy just to see how far in teh air you can get him?!! i LOVED it.

to bad its all over in a day.. now i have to wait for mods :-(
 
yes the physics do do stuff and have you knocked a guy down the elevator shaft and seeing him hit every rod and bounce off in a very realistic way. my only gripe is they so could have added a few more levels but o well the story takes care of that. i was amazed 2 guys switch roles basically and yes that quote is great. but why musst vinnie say such atrocious words?
 
Did you expect immoral people that kill others on a daily basis, steal, bribe, black mail, and participate in many other illegal activities to use nice, proper language?

Anyway, I'm glad they didn't tone the language down.
I'm against censorship of any kind.

How can you arbitrarily decide out of hundreds of thousands of words that maybe 10 of them are "bad" words?

There are no bad words. There are only bad intentions.

Don't you get sick of hearing "radio versions" of song lyrics... like "You's a big fine woman won't you back that thing up." and movie channels that re-dub other words over curse words?

... and while I am on censorship, what is it with the naked body being considered "dirty" or immoral?
Again, how do you justify which part of the body is "bad" and which parts are acceptable for display?

I like hearing this from the same people that say that God created the human body in his own image.
Why would He have created naked people in His own image and not taught them to clothe themselves if He though that His body was dirty?

Censorship is trying to protect people that are too sensitive... when what they need is to get used to it.

If no one made such a huge deal about nudity and language... there would be no problem.
 
in my opinion. YOU PAYED FOR THE GAME thus i WANT all the cussing and nudity you can throw at me, cuase i don't care, and i payed for it.

But i DO NOT want any cussing/nudity on a BILLBOARD on route 315 (made that up for example) becuase i didn't pay to see that billboard i couldn't help looking at it.
 
Yeah, well I wish they would censor it so I could play it when my parents are home. I feel kind of ripped off having to play the game with my speakers turned off and being all paraniod that they'll walk into the room on one of the "bad" scenes. It's bogus, and it really ruins the game.
 
I don't understand your "I payed for the nudity and cursing." logic.
Some people payed for the game and don't want it... so, which group do you cater to?

Answer: Neither. Do what fits your game.
For example, if you make a shuffleboard game there is no need for either of them, but if you make a game based on gangs, the mob, etc. then foul language would fit with the theme of the game.

... and honestly, I think allowing nudity and curse words on billboards and having the government backing them (so people couldn't sue to get them taken down) would help in the long run to get rid of the stigmas attatched to nudity and "curse words".
 
Originally posted by ElFuhrer
Yeah, well I wish they would censor it so I could play it when my parents are home. I feel kind of ripped off having to play the game with my speakers turned off and being all paraniod that they'll walk into the room on one of the "bad" scenes. It's bogus, and it really ruins the game.
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yeah well, if your parents let you buy a rated 'M' game, then play the shit out of it at full volume. If you got it yourself and you didn't get carded well then, tough luck. :cool:
 
If the parents don't want their children exposed to any "bad" things, they need to understand that their children will have to deal with it sooner or later in the real world... and that it is better for them not to teach their children that it is evil just because they think it will keep them from having sex or becoming violent or some shit like that (children rebel from their parents if the parents are too restrictive).

My parents had the right idea.

My mother was a nurse, so she was used to the human body and told us things as they were instead of trying to soften things up for us... and that's how I learned to be.

My thoughts that the human body is a beautiful thing don't make me constantly go out and look for sex and naked women... it probably did the opposite.

My thoughts that "curse words" are not evil doesn't make me walk around saying "shit, piss, ****, ****, cocksucker, mother****er, and tits" (George Carlin is great).

... and, as an intelligent person, I fail to see why people censor curse words when murders, suicides, wars, etc. are covered so widely in the media and much worse things happen in the schools that your children go to.

Words are a means to express ideas.

Just because you don't like a certain word doesn't mean that you have the right to restrict other people from using it to express themselves when it is the closest word to how they feel.

Another related topic that I'm against is the whole wave of "political correctness" and euphemistic language (rewording things to make it sound better than it is) that is being used to protect people from themselves.

What is the point in calling crippled people "differently-abled"?
Does it make them any less crippled? No.

The only thing softened language makes is soft people.

It only makes things worse.

EDIT: Hey... I accidentally found some curse words that don't get filtered out... woohoo!
 
first rule: if you are intelligent don't toot your horn about it. you instantly lose half your readers' support.

secondly i agree with most of what you said. but it's a whole different issue, which deals with the media and how most people are 'controlled' by what they see on the news etc. filtering happens at the highest levels. it's the suits who do it not the designers. if artists were allowed full freedom the bigwigs in charge think there'd be a riot on every street corner.

seriosuly, it's a big ****ed up mess (and yes, i prefer to use ****ed up than messed up simply because it has more impact). how many of you are fimilar with Michael Moore? i'm hoping a lot of you are. he has some interesting stuff to say about society today.

and on topic, yes MP2 is fun and all, but there's just something missing. looking at it from a design perspective it just makes me cringe. is that all you did in 2 years? you're telling me you spent 2 years implementing Havok and writing a story, as well as reusing half the levels from MP1? it's just a bit annoying. what were they doing all this time?
 
idc about the cussing but now i cant let my brother play it. hes only 11 and i dont want him to have stuff on me. i like the cussing if it makes sense which it does i just wish there was a censor like in half life where you can turn it on or off.
 
Originally posted by ElFuhrer
Yeah, well I wish they would censor it so I could play it when my parents are home. I feel kind of ripped off having to play the game with my speakers turned off and being all paraniod that they'll walk into the room on one of the "bad" scenes. It's bogus, and it really ruins the game.
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Stupid kid... (Not to mention your login name...)


Go Carlin !!
 
It'd be nice if the interactive objects in MP2 (Boxes, paint cans, mops, beer bottles, etc) actually cast their own shadows. It's kind of stupid-looking when you move a box, and there's no shadow. Heh.
 
Originally posted by Rarehero
It'd be nice if the interactive objects in MP2 (Boxes, paint cans, mops, beer bottles, etc) actually cast their own shadows. It's kind of stupid-looking when you move a box, and there's no shadow. Heh.
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Yeh, but the shadows on the humans are damn great! If all objects in HL2 would get that kind of soft-shadow it would be incredible :cheese:
It also looks dumb, that the dead bodies dont have shadows..
 
Originally posted by Jens-k
Yeh, but the shadows on the humans are damn great! If all objects in HL2 would get that kind of soft-shadow it would be incredible :cheese:
It also looks dumb, that the dead bodies dont have shadows..
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by the looks of it everything in HL2 casts a shadow, I dunno if models self shadow or cast shadows on each other but they do cast them onto the environment, which is good enough I reckon, for a game anyway... ok just watch the barracade vid again, dead bodies have shadows too
 
Originally posted by qckbeam
mbrithoms: If you played the Half-Life 2 beta you would know just how realistic the Half-Life 2 ragdolls are, and you woulnd't try to argue with me about this. They ARE without a doubt more realistic. The physics system is much more robust in Half-Life 2, you can't argue that. Havok by itself is what you see with MP2, and it serves it's purpose well since the game only uses it for show. Valves version of Havok allows for all objects to react very realistically with the enviroment they are in, this includes ragdolls. I can't really prove it without screenshots, videos, or talk about the beta since all those things are "illegal" on the forums.
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Oh yeah, so much talk like you were developing the game yourself, you have severe fanboy syndrome..
Answer this.. How is a loaded gun floating on water accurate physics?
and the ragdolls in hl2 and mp2 are basically the same..
mp2 just has a more elaborate way of letting you blow people around.. there isn't much difference. The guns appply different ammounts of force on impact causing the ragdolls to react differently..
Try using a shot gun on a character in hl2 then in mp2 see how little or no difference there actually is..
either way the hl2 hype is so 2 months ago
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
by the looks of it everything in HL2 casts a shadow, I dunno if models self shadow or cast shadows on each other but they do cast them onto the environment, which is good enough I reckon, for a game anyway... ok just watch the barracade vid again, dead bodies have shadows too
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I played the hl2 beta and dead bodies to have shadows..
In max payne2 shadows dissappear a few seconds after the character dies.. my guess is to make it a more stable game and run smoother.. more than oft you end up with 10+ dead bodies in a hallway that would be pretty taxing on the system to have them all cast shadows..
It's pretty unnecessary to have a corpse cast shadows for the type of game max payne 2 is.. where you just basically shoot and run for the most part
 
I love MP2! The levels are original and very well designed. Characters look real and it's really fulfilling to blow them away.

And i love the naked mona :bounce:
 
I doubt there would be a difference in speed between 10 "alive" models casting shadows and 10 "dead" models casting shadows. It would be nice to know if models in HL2 can cast shadows on themselves and each other aswell as the environment. Not sure how that would effect things like render type for models. eg: a hologram style wouldn't have a shadow on them or cast one (actually it would cast a shadow just not recieve any but it would be a colored type of shadow, like the light through a stain glass window, slightly darker so effectivly still a shadow)
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
by the looks of it everything in HL2 casts a shadow, I dunno if models self shadow or cast shadows on each other but they do cast them onto the environment, which is good enough I reckon, for a game anyway... ok just watch the barracade vid again, dead bodies have shadows too
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hmm.. I meant Max payne 2s lack of shadows on objects/dead bodies suck.. But the shadows that are there looks so good! and what I meant was that Half life 2 has shadows on everything, which is great, but it would be even cooler if the shadows were like the ones in amx payne 2..:x .. understood that?
 
FAK3R: The ragdolls in Half-Life 2 and Ma Payne 2 are not basically the same. The ones in HL2 are much more realistic due to the fact that Valve tweakd the Havok engine alot. One example would be the seizures that the ragdolls in MP2 often have. The dead guys twitch like crazy when in a position other than flat on their backs, for no reason at all. In half-life 2 I have never seen a ragdoll do that. In terms of general physics, I don't see the extensive materials system that HL2 uses in Max Payne 2. That wooden structure seen in the techdemo (it's the one in the E3 techdemo video with the giat pool of water and pachinko machine) that was shot and splintered into individual pieces eventually causing the entire structure to collapse realistically couldn't be replicated in Max Payne 2 using the physics engine alone. The reason it can't be done is because the version of Havok that Max Payne 2 uses doesn't look at individual objects as materials (wood, metal, etc.) and then determine how they should break based upon that (and how much damage is being done to them). It sees every thing as an object of the same type with the only difference being mass, and it doesn't see them as breakable objects. The reason Max Payne 2 doesn't use the materials system is because they are using an "out of the box" version of Havok with no modfications to it, while Valve uses a heavily modified version of it. Also, don't call me a fanboy. I never said Max Payne 2 sucked or anything. It's a great game, and the physics work very well for it, they serve their purpose, which was to make gunfights more cinematic and fun. Max Payne 2's physics system is probably simpler than the system in Half-Life 2 simply because it's not realistic on todays hardware to have 10 enemies in a room throwing grenades at you, blowing up tons of wooden structures into tiny pieces, each of which are being propelled by the explosions realistically, while you do a slow motion dive in bullet time pumping three guy's full of lead with you're ingrams, sending thir bodies flying backwards 100%realistically into a pool of water, where they sink at first and then float back up again, bobbing up and down realistically in the water. Maybe in Max Payne 3.
 
Originally posted by lhauert
Stupid kid... (Not to mention your login name...)
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Wow, you're an idiot. Yeah, you're really cool because you're old, that automatically makes you a better person. I'm really sick of these "OMG j00 r t3h 15" jerks. Yeah, I'm fifteen, get over it. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a twelve year old lying about his age to try to seem cool. Well guess what? In an online forum your age is irrelevant. Deal with it. You can't pull the "age" or "no life" card on the internet, because all you know about that person is what they've said.
 
Originally posted by qckbeam
FAK3R: The ragdolls in Half-Life 2 and Ma Payne 2 are not basically the same. The ones in HL2 are much more realistic due to the fact that Valve tweakd the Havok engine alot. One example would be the seizures that the ragdolls in MP2 often have. The dead guys twitch like crazy when in a position other than flat on their backs, for no reason at all. In half-life 2 I have never seen a ragdoll do that. In terms of general physics, I don't see the extensive materials system that HL2 uses in Max Payne 2. That wooden structure seen in the techdemo (it's the one in the E3 techdemo video with the giat pool of water and pachinko machine) that was shot and splintered into individual pieces eventually causing the entire structure to collapse realistically couldn't be replicated in Max Payne 2 using the physics engine alone. The reason it can't be done is because the version of Havok that Max Payne 2 uses doesn't look at individual objects as materials (wood, metal, etc.) and then determine how they should break based upon that (and how much damage is being done to them). It sees every thing as an object of the same type with the only difference being mass, and it doesn't see them as breakable objects. The reason Max Payne 2 doesn't use the materials system is because they are using an "out of the box" version of Havok with no modfications to it, while Valve uses a heavily modified version of it. Also, don't call me a fanboy. I never said Max Payne 2 sucked or anything. It's a great game, and the physics work very well for it, they serve their purpose, which was to make gunfights more cinematic and fun. Max Payne 2's physics system is probably simpler than the system in Half-Life 2 simply because it's not realistic on todays hardware to have 10 enemies in a room throwing grenades at you, blowing up tons of wooden structures into tiny pieces, each of which are being propelled by the explosions realistically, while you do a slow motion dive in bullet time pumping three guy's full of lead with you're ingrams, sending thir bodies flying backwards 100%realistically into a pool of water, where they sink at first and then float back up again, bobbing up and down realistically in the water. Maybe in Max Payne 3.
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Nice and long useless paragraph restating the same shit i've already said is false..
 
Got it yesterday... completed it yesterday...

I disliked the comic book on the 1st one, and in an interview with the makers they said "Alot of the comic book shots are now in-game video" What alot of crap, still ALOT of the comic book stuff...

The game itself.. hmm, nice levels, very big infact, the havoc engi is cool but unlike hl2 they are not helpfull at all, theres no puzzles with them, and are PLAINLY put in just to make it look good, theres alot of places where there are "Look at me, im havoc" Monas funhouse is one of those (anyone who played it will agree)

Storyline.. bleh, I dont play it for the storyline, infact I hate MP1 and 2 "style" of story.. I buy it for fights

Bullet time is good, kinda.. diveing does not take up bar anymore, but thats ok as everyone by now knows it helps you about has much as eating a hacksaw. going into normall bullet time slows everyone down but you.. or at least what they said in an interview, what they ment to say was "The screen will go yellow and then you will move slow, but the other people even slower" yellow = bad, oh so bad, even with DX9.. the only thing bullet time has going for it is fast reloading.

A new mode "dead man walking" is very good, endless people to fight, challange yourself to get better times, thats all I really play now.

Over all.. I would give it 5/10, not worth the money I paid for it, that is untill the Kung fu mod comes out for it.

edit: Like some people are saying in this thread, MP2 havoc is ALOT worse then HL2s will be, your avatar (Max/Mona >_>) is not in-sink with the world, e.g you dont weigh much, but you DO abit.. Hl2 has modded havoc, I doubt MP2 did
 
Originally posted by qckbeam
FAK3R: The ragdolls in Half-Life 2 and Ma Payne 2 are not basically the same. The ones in HL2 are much more realistic
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then back that up, COME ON!
 
FAK3R: Flame me for this post all you want, I dont much care for anything you have to throw at me, I just wanna say, read qck's god damn post, god you CANT say MP2 has better and more realistic use then HL2 will have, any dumb ass (who played beta or not, personally I havent) can see HL2's is better from screenshots and videos alone, I have played MP2 and those things DO happan, they do jerk when they die on quite alot of places, Max payne himself is not "havoced" as well as Gordon freeman will be.

I dont wish for you to reply at all too this, as I dont care about your oh-so-great reply that you may give me like "shut up" or something clever as hell. Im just trying to help qck, as he makes a point.

As for the whole "fanboy" shit, sort it out, just cus someone says something is better about something else, does not make him/her a fanboy, but you know what, replying to good points with "Nice and long useless paragraph restating the same shit i've already said is false.." makes you look like one.

Anyhow, no one here im sure is takeing your side on the whole issue (part from mbrithoms I guess), as you have no good point, unable to write more then 2 lines of worthwhile infomation about the topic, and just making qck have to write out all the same shit again to get his point over..

Go back to your naked Mona... Im sure she understands you.. :dozey:
 
Originally posted by gantrithor_5
Good point Apos. MP2 has stolen some people's lust for HL2. It's the physics that we wanted from HL2, but we have to get them late, so MP2's physics made people forget about HL2.. at least a bit. [HL2] is no longer so much of a groundbreaking game.
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see its happening like some people said. now that HL2 has been pushed back so many times other games are taking its glory. im just glad its a good as game as Max Payne 2 that did it. coudln't have been a better chioce. and the HL2 physics aren't much better then the ones in Max Payne 2. and far from as good as people are claiming they are. so get off HL2 and Valve's nuts. its almost sad how fickle people can be. Max Payne 2 and HL2 both use the brand new Havok 2 Engine that means any changes made are just how light or heavey the bodies and any entitys that use the engine are. the new ragdoll physics in Max Payne 2 are very dramatic because its one of the new things implemented in Max Payne 2 and Take 2 wanted to show this off and make is noticeable. i still cant wait for HL2 it still will be a great game and from the little tid bits of story line in the Beta it is very impressive and immersive it just wont be as new and revolutionary as people would have thought if it was released on time.
 
hl2 got sh|tfaced by mp2.....ALthough there is still marginal level of difference b/w hl2 physics and mp2, I think physics incorporated with the bullet time effect with evreything around you flying in slow motion gives a much better feel and look. Otherwise it just becomes stale. Into three hours of mp2 i really didnt care much for physics, sure it bolstered the gameplay but it was the story-driven element and bullet time(with beleivable physics in bullet time mode) that was captivating...am i still looking forward to hl2?...well there isnt much diff b/w physics(which seemed to be hl2 biggest strength) when measured up against MP2 so i can say the hype is dead. Ill probably dl the game or buy it, if it lives up to the hype its created and delivers on the narration and story front. p.s. dont bother with elf boy, hes a mentaly deranged delusional fanboy.
 
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