Help me understand atheism

[Shift]

Thats essentially one of the feelings I have, just that I feel that sometimes my path through is layed before me and I am merely walking that path, its wierd but its a really strong feeling I have.

 

[CyberPitz]

Please at least tell me you gave her a scathing response in reply.

oh yeah, the argument ended in her saying that it's all stupid, and she's right I was like "whatever hypochristian, just remember than when we feel the need to think about your feelings arises next time we extend our religious freedom, you won't be included."

 

[jerkasaur]

godlessness; denial of the existence of a supreme being. it's atheism by the way.

Atheism is often applied to, (weak atheist)"the lack of belief in a god" or (strong atheist)"the belief a god does not exist". Those definitions are different. For example you were a weak atheist at one time in your life. When you were born and you could barely think, you had no idea what god was. The thought never even crossed your mind. You did not believe he did or didn't exist. You lacked any belief in that god. So you were a weak atheist.

But yes, thats all Atheism covers. Those 2 definitions. Nothing more. Nothing less. What happens after death is up to the person. Beliving in evolution, gravity, quantum mechanics, etc.. is all up to the person. Hell believing that 1 + 1 = 2 is up to the person. Atheism does not say you believe in evolution, it doesn't say much about you.

qft

personally, I think atheism makes as much sense as polytheism does.

 

[Ravioli]

I have written alot of rambles about the topic, heres just a few exerpts. Remember i speak for MYSELF and not for ALL atheists. If you have all the time in the world then go ahead and read.

------

People tell me that because im an atheist, i have no morals. This is wrong, i have the same morals as you do. I can live, love, enjoy, share, help etc just like you. However, there are things i CAN NOT do that christians and other religious people can, for example:

An atheist, CAN NOT:
- Ask forgivness from a God if he/she did harm to another person, an atheist can ONLY seek forgivness from the person he/she did harm too, no one else. The atheist has to live with his/hers misstake his/hers entire life.

A christian can:
-Kill, rape, steal, and be forgiven by God for it, and therefore feel justified in doing so.

If you have to base your morality on a book...then you have no human morals at all. All morals are common sense, they are all part of self-conscious thinking, if you cant have morals without a book, then you are an immoral retard. Treat others as you want to be treated is what i follow the most. People often say that believing in God will make life much easier. You have something to pray to, a source of hope, you have something to seek apathy from and most importantly something to be forgiven by if you do wrong. You dont have to wonder about why you exist and where everything came from, you dont have to think about your purpose of existance and nature itself. You dont have to seek, research and question the very elements of love, fear, hatred, apathy. Instead you get a book in your hands with all answers before you! Everything you ask has an answer in this book. You dont have to panic, you dont have to worry, you dont even have to think or use a single brain cell, you simply open the book and read. This all seems like a good deal, it looks very satisfying. I however have a better option to offer. The offer of reality! Freeing your mind and seeing reality as it is infront of you. Doesnt it feel much better to have your eyes open? Doesnt it feel great to have your mind functioning at 100% ? Doesnt it feel good to live in truth rather than live in a lie dedicated to a delusion? If you live in truth you wont have the answer to everything, you will have to use your own mind to question and rationalize logically about the strange world around you. You will accomplish far more things because you need to find the answer and in order to do so you have to use your brain cells and actually take the steps to find the answer, not flip the pages of a book. This is why Atheists are the ones who accomplishes more (no? open a history book...) , because we strive harder at what we seek because we know that the real true answer is far more beautifull than a false answer of a lie.

If you want to live in delusion, you have all right to do so! No one should stop you. But living in a delusion which tells you to condemn, hate, discriminate and kill people is no longer a delusion...its a Psychic Disease, Schizofrenia, Mental Disturbance and it becomes a threat to others, you should immediately seek a mental hospital. This kind of delusion is called Religion, which has poisoned billions of innocent people across the globe. Children are being indoctrinated with it in their childhood so when their brain is large enough to think for itself it is to late. Ofcorse you disagree with this...your delusion tells you what you read here and now is a lie and that you shall kill me for my blasphemies.

As an Atheist, i accept that i DO NOT know WHY im here, WHY earth exists, HOW we came to be. I simply do not know...and i accept the answer that i do not now. Christians cant stand to not know why they exists, they cant accept the truth that they DONT KNOW, therefore, they make up an answer= God, an answer to everything YAY! There, you can calm down, you dont have to go all crazy about not knowing why we exist. It was the same with the Greeks. They had many gods for things they did not have the answer too. For example, they could do this: They did not know why it rained, so they made up a God for it. You do not know why we exist, so you make up a God for it. Do you get it now? Its the same thing! But now we DO know why it rains, therefore we stopped believing in the God that stood for it in the past. I, however, can live with, and accept, that i simply do not know why my existance is, i dont have to make up an answer, im not that greedy and weak to accept something so rediculus as a supernatural entitie, im not that delusional, i live in the realm of rationalism and logic, i think about things and question things, i just dont take in things blindlessly and accepting it.

i believe that you only have 1 LIFE, and that you should use that life to the extend, make it flurish and enjoy every second of it till it ends, because you dont know whats after life, what if theres no more to it? Wont you regret that you spent your only life wasting time worshiping a false supernatural entitiy? Open your eyes, think rational and logical, question, you have a great mind, use it, dont let it be oppressed by the false promises of religion, free yourself from the delusion.

Christian fundamentality is just one step behind the Islamic, both of which has an oppressing doctorine and dogma. The twentieth century should be an age of reason and humanistic thinking, not an age of mind oppressing fundamentality that held us back in the middle ages. As of now the secular society has grown but will soon cease to grow and start to shrink. Rational voices are descending into the delusional ramble of dieties, soon to be forgotten or banished. For a time it is good, but religion no longer has its place in humanity. It was once needed but is now not a tool society needs anymore. Religion is the architect of our own demise.


heres a few sick verses from the bible
"He that beliveth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is CONDEMNED already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" Jn 3:18

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be PUT TO DEATH; their blood shall be upon them." Lev. 20:13

"He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely PUT TO DEATH." Exodus 21:15

"entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,which thou hast not know, thou, nor thy fathers; ... But thou shalt surely KILL HIM; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to DEATH, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt STONE HIM with stones, that he DIE." Dt.13:6-10


I know most people dont follow such verses even if they are christian, which is why i say im against RELIGION, not necesserly ALL people who follows it. I think that once religion is out of humanity, we can focus on finding the real answer, the real truth of the universe origin by exploring space.


"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" - Carl Sagan

 

[Darkwolf]

That's sad; be good just to be good.

Plus, being good to people and having your help appreciated gives you this buzz that isn't quite the same as anything else that you can go for... so there is a motivation even for people like us!

Another point I like to make is even though I may see a lot of religions as stupid and irrational, it doesn't mean that I hate the people involved. I see religion as something important to society. Without it a lot of people would have trouble comprehending reasons to do good and such. I guess they're a good way of teaching and instilling morals in people.

For those reasons I can respect peoples needs to believe in something, as long as they don't try convert me... in which case I'll try convert them!

It works for me.

 

[mchammer75040]

Imo, fairly funny atheist skit by Dane Cook, the atheist joke is about half-way in... before that it's all backstory.
Edit : He fails by thinking the space bar is the enter button.

He fails cause his jokes suck. bill hicks is so much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk


Ravoli,

If you want to live in delusion, you have all right to do so! No one should stop you. But living in a delusion which tells you to condemn, hate, discriminate and kill people is no longer a delusion...its a Psychic Disease, Schizofrenia, Mental Disturbance and it becomes a threat to others, you should immediately seek a mental hospital. This kind of delusion is called Religion, which has poisoned billions of innocent people across the globe

Sorry but this is probably the most ridiculous and discriminative post in this thread. Sure religion has caused plenty of war, but it has kept people alive and given people a higher purpose. Some have made huge differences in the world from their religious faiths (gandhi, mother teresa). Im not saying I agree with them totally but they've done alot more for this world than any of us. Ofcourse there are people who twist it to their own ends, but thats so with any ideology...

 

[Ravioli]

He fails cause his jokes suck. bill hicks is so much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk


Ravoli,

Sorry but this is probably the most ridiculous and discriminative post in this thread. Sure religion has caused plenty of war, but it has kept people alive and given people a higher purpose. Some have made huge differences in the world from their religious faiths (gandhi, mother teresa). Im not saying I agree with them totally but they've done alot more for this world than any of us. Ofcourse there are people who twist it to their own ends, but thats so with any ideology...

Ofcorse, i totaly agree with you. But that was the past. Now people can do all those things WITHOUT religion, which is why we dont need it anymore

 

[Pesmerga]

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Atheism everything will become a little clearer if you read this.

 

[mchammer75040]

Ofcorse, i totaly agree with you. But that was the past

What do you mean? What was in the past? It effects people in a very positive way everyday.

 

[nurizeko]

Hi, I am an atheist. If I need to call my non-existent metaphysical beliefs something.



I believe that the human mind, the human capacity for sentience and self awareness is very powerful, and such, I don't full out completely denying the possibility that the human mind may be bigger then death and survive in some fashion. However, it is just a very very thin weak opinion of mine and has no basis in scientific fact whatsoever.

Combined with the fact that I could not imagine an eternity of suffering or an eternity of boredom (depending how arbitrarily my life would have been judged) and, well, just the absolute absurdity of religion in general (use common sense and Google for further explanation) and the vastly reasonable logical conclusions of scientific method, I see no reason to quiver in fear of some big imaginary man in the sky. :imu:

 

[Ravioli]

What do you mean? What was in the past? It effects people in a very positive way everyday.

read my post again, it got half-cut off

 

[jondy]

i think we have life "outside" of this one, that is less singular, doesnt have the notions we have about existance, like time. energy never dissipates, makes sense that consciousness incorporates energy. my life feels more like a choice than an accident

I don't understand at all.

 

[[Matt]]

Another thing to add to the debate on morality and how religion gets in the way. Which of these actions is more moral and whats the defining difference between the two that you can describe in one word only?

A theist gives away half his possessions to charity to be good and to gain entry into heaven as he believes.

A non believer gives away half of his possessions to charity to be good and for his own well bieng as by doing so he feels better for it.

 

[mollydepp]

HAHHHHH this 'message' better work...
.
.
.
seeing as this is the whole reason i made an account. i dunno what to do now.
top post madel. golly good.

 

[Pesmerga]

[Matt], neither are more moral. Charity is charity, the receivers don't give a shit why you do it.

But charity is just hurting people unless it helps them become more independent.

 

[mchammer75040]

read my post again, it got half-cut off

Ah alright I didnt see that. Well, yea people can do without it now but they always could. My point is is for most people thats the only way they have to relate to the world, and if that religion tells them to love others..etc. and they actually follow that, then I dont see a problem. I think there is a growing number of christians accepting evolution since now its a law to be taught in every public highschool. So I dont see how anyone can go wrong with that as long as they are using science as a "tool" for spirituality as well. Now the fundies on the other hand are just ****in stupid, thinking the world is 6,000 years old...Im guessing thats what you were refering to in your OP right?

 

[[Matt]]

Some have made huge differences in the world from their religious faiths (gandhi, mother teresa). Im not saying I agree with them totally but they've done alot more for this world than any of us. Ofcourse there are people who twist it to their own ends, but thats so with any ideology...

Ghandi may have changed the world for the better but was a rascist who would have kicked out every black man woman and child from india if he had his way and mother theresa was a complete fraud who actually did more harm than good because of her beliefs. So i do agree that there are people who twist religion to their own ends..

 

[[Matt]]

[Matt], neither are more moral. Charity is charity, the receivers don't give a shit why you do it.

But charity is just hurting people unless it helps them become more independent.

Im not talking about the people who recieve the charity... Im asking the question from the personal perspective of both the theist and non theist and how the perceive their actions.

 

[firenbrimstone]

Another thing to add to the debate on morality and how religion gets in the way. Which of these actions is more moral and whats the defining difference between the two that you can describe in one word only?

A theist gives away half his possessions to charity to be good and to gain entry into heaven as he believes.

A non believer gives away half of his possessions to charity to be good and for his own well bieng as by doing so he feels better for it.

Interesting... I'm often told by those who know of my personal belief system, that I'm selfish for not believing in a higher power. Somehow, I'm living my life for myself, and not on behalf of another.

Giving away possessions in the hope of "making it" into another realm (or whatever you may call it) seems like a lifetime spent in the worst popularity contest ever. No thanks. I'm out.

As for a non-believer doing it for their own well-being, hell yes. While I don't believe in ethereal beings being a guiding force in my life, I do believe that we each have a tiny amount of impact on the flow of how the planet functions. I won't use "karma" as the correct term, although it is a similar theory. I treat others as I would expect to be treated, knowing full well that 99% of the time I'll be disappointed.

I don't see atheism as selfishness, I see it as an independence of thought... free from all the weight of thousands of years of guilt and campfire stories. I don't worry about whether I'll "make it" into Heaven, my life is much more liberated--knowing that whatever happens, I'll have done what I could...when I could.

 

[[Matt]]

Interesting... I'm often told by those who know of my personal belief system, that I'm selfish for not believing in a higher power. Somehow, I'm living my life for myself, and not on behalf of another.

Giving away possessions in the hope of "making it" into another realm (or whatever you may call it) seems like a lifetime spent in the worst popularity contest ever. No thanks. I'm out.

As for a non-believer doing it for their own well-being, hell yes. While I don't believe in ethereal beings being a guiding force in my life, I do believe that we each have a tiny amount of impact on the flow of how the planet functions. I won't use "karma" as the correct term, although it is a similar theory. I treat others as I would expect to be treated, knowing full well that 99% of the time I'll be disappointed.

I don't see atheism as selfishness, I see it as an independence of thought... free from all the weight of thousands of years of guilt and campfire stories. I don't worry about whether I'll "make it" into Heaven, my life is much more liberated--knowing that whatever happens, I'll have done what I could...when I could.

Good answer! So whats the single word we're looking for?

 

[mchammer75040]

Ghandi may have changed the world for the better but was a rascist who would have kicked out every black man woman and child from india if he had his way and mother theresa was a complete fraud who actually did more harm than good because of her beliefs. So i do agree that there are people who twist religion to their own ends..

Yes your right, in Hindu religion black skin is considered the lowest ring (or something like that) and associated with evil. Which is why I said:

Im not saying I agree with them totally but they've done alot more for this world than any of us.

Perhaps he was, but his influence then cuts both ways because his tactics influenced one of America's greatest civil rights activist, Martin luther king jr.
I dont know so much about teresa, so I'll give you that one . But I know you understand what Im gettin at.

Im not talking about the people who recieve the charity... Im asking the question from the personal perspective of both the theist and non theist and how the perceive their actions.

Are you saying the atheist is less selfish? Well, if hes doin it because it makes him feel good, then thats not any less so is it?

 

[cjohnson]

well, as an atheist I believe that you somply cease to exist afetr you die. But one sin can condemn you to an eternity being tortures? also, what about the pplz in china who will NEVER hear the jesus in their whole life? They get sent to hell for not believing?
article:http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/hell.html
see? also visit: http://www.godisimaginary.com

 

[CrazyHarij]

jondy, i dont believe in gods but i think theres more to existance than life. why? because i feel like it, it'd be pretty silly to go against what i resonate with for following a standard of either religion or scientific consensus.

 

[Shift]

Essentially, if God and Heaven did exist, then Atheists wouldn't be condemned anyway, because the solice comes from the fact they are not causing any harm to others, they are just living by free will (comes from the Bible), living their lives to the max, but just choosing not to worship a higher order because the brain given to them told them thats it stupid.

Essentially God punishing people for that is rather contradicting, to be quite ****ing honest, the entire sodding religion is contradicting, the Bible says this and that near the start and then contradicts what it said later on, which leads me to believe that the Bible has been edited MANY times over its existance to the point that it just doesn't make any sense.

Examples:
-God is forgiving but will happily condemn billions to eternal torture.
-God gave us free will but we have to follow 10 rules to get into heaven (however they could really just be moral values that were set down).
-God is against gays even though it aint their fault most of the time, and again its free will.
-God gave us free will be we cant have sex until after marriage, not to mention this very rule goes against one of the very things that makes us human.
-As I said, God is against none believers, but again this is free will.
-God is against abortion, even though its free will, and having this option can save many teenagers from having their early lives ruined.

To name a few...

 

[CrazyHarij]

i agree with most in the latter however, and i think living just for the experience makes more sense than some mystical or religious purpose. cheers

 

[[Matt]]

Yes your right, in Hindu religion black skin is considered the lowest ring (or something like that) and associated with evil. Which is why I said:

Perhaps he was, but his influence then cuts both ways because his tactics influenced one of America's greatest civil rights activist, Martin luther king jr.
I dont know so much about teresa, so I'll give you that one . But I know you understand what Im gettin at.


Are you saying the atheist is less selfish? Well, if hes doin it because it makes him feel good, then thats not any less so is it?

If you wish to know more about mother T then simply watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFEesUUX0s

As for the atheist charity giver the main difference is that whilst both will feel emotionally better after the charitable action, the atheist isnt gaining materially where as the theist will be after death. Whilst the non believer cannot claim to be truly altruistic which is the single word im looking for, he's certainly higher up on the scale of altruism than the theist.

 

[firenbrimstone]

Good answer! So whats the single word we're looking for?

I can't work within the constraints of a single word answer.

Interestingly, because I have a sick fascination with thesaurus.com.. look at the way they associate "freethinking"..

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/freethinking

Freethinking was my single word answer, but.. now I'm scared it'll be misintrepreted 50 different ways.

Edit: Took me so long to type, the answer was already posted. I was thinking of cheating.. but.. that wouldn't have been very altruistic of me. Altruism, btw, is a noble idea.. not practiced as often as most "think" they are.

 

[mchammer75040]

...which leads me to believe that the Bible has been edited MANY times over its existance to the point that it just doesn't make any sense.

Examples:
-God is forgiving but will happily condemn billions to eternal torture.
..

Have you ever heard of the gospel of thomas? It was supposedly a book that was edited out of the bible when it was being canonized in 200 A.D..
Anyways the book mentions a conversation between jesus and (if I remember right) Thomas where he asks this very question as to why God can say hes so forgiving but damn so many. Jesus replied that hell isnt actually eternal and everyone come to heaven at some point once they've redeemed themselves.

Also cjohnson, made a good point that goes along with your observations. So many people have never even heard of the bible, but according to the bible God will not condemn someone for their ignorance. Technically since God is something supernatual and we are just natural feeble minds we can never knowGod, so how can anyone be punished at all?

 

[CrazyHarij]

it still doesnt make the bible believable. theres too much prejudice and ancient beliefs, and i mean, what is heaven? heck, to me, life is. theres a consistent balance of positive and negative stuff which makes you value both.

 

[Shift]

I agree, I cant really see what would be better than this current life, unless of course the afterlife is just like this life, except you can do whatever the hell you want and you never die etc.

 

[mchammer75040]

If you wish to know more about mother T then simply watch this....

Thats pretty interesting, alright I retract my admiration for mother teresa.

As for the atheist charity giver the main difference is that whilst both will feel emotionally better after the charitable action, the atheist isnt gaining materially where as the theist will be after death. Whilst the non believer cannot claim to be truly altruistic which is the single word im looking for, he's certainly higher up on the scale of altruism than the theist.

Ultimately I believe everyone acts in a selfish way, maybe the theist who doesnt do it from their heart but for God's approval is more so, but anyone who does it to make themselves feel better or for attention isnt moral. What you mentioned reminded me of a news article I read awhile back, where salvation army was marching through the town square of some city on their way to the homeless center. Why? So everyone will sit around and pat them on the back for it?

EDIT crazy, shift: Im not saying it makes it more believable, I mentioned those with the intent to elaborate on the point shift made.

 

[jondy]

jondy, i dont believe in gods but i think theres more to existance than life. why? because i feel like it, it'd be pretty silly to go against what i resonate with for following a standard of either religion or scientific consensus.

Don't compare religious consensus to scientific consensus, but I see your point, even if I don't agree with your mysticism.

 

[[Matt]]

I can't work within the constraints of a single word answer.

Interestingly, because I have a sick fascination with thesaurus.com.. look at the way they associate "freethinking"..

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/freethinking

Freethinking was my single word answer, but.. now I'm scared it'll be misintrepreted 50 different ways.

Edit: Took me so long to type, the answer was already posted. I was thinking of cheating.. but.. that wouldn't have been very altruistic of me. Altruism, btw, is a noble idea.. not practiced as often as most "think" they are.

The single word answer i was looking for was altruism

 

[cjohnson]

@mchammer:
yes I have, also where jesus kills someone for bumping into him while playing

 

[mchammer75040]

it still doesnt make the bible believable. theres too much prejudice and ancient beliefs, and i mean, what is heaven? heck, to me, life is. theres a consistent balance of positive and negative stuff which makes you value both.

Like I mentioned before Im not arguing for it. I pointed out that the bible was canonized 200 years A.D.. So thats 200 years that people in the church had err lets say creative freedom with it. And not to mention that it even says in the bible that the first gospel wasnt pinned down until 30 years or so after jesus existed. So it was just word of mouth for that long, and since he preached to the poor and illiterate theres no telling what he actually said and didnt say.

cjohnson,
Were you refering to the gospel of thomas? Honestly I havent read the whole thing, but yea I remember something along those lines..Supposedly he was a prick when he was a kid.

 

[[Matt]]

Like I mentioned before Im not arguing for it. I pointed out that the bible was canonized 200 years A.D.. So thats 200 years that people in the church had err lets say creative freedom with it. And not to mention that it even says in the bible that the first gospel wasnt pinned down until 30 years or so after jesus existed. So it was just word of mouth for that long, and since he preached to the poor and illiterate theres no telling what he actually said and didnt say.

cjohnson,
Were you refering to the gospel of thomas? Honestly I havent read the whole thing, but yea I remember something along those lines..Supposedly he was a prick when he was a kid.

Add to the fact that theres no historical evidence that he even existed outside of the bible...

 

[MJ12]

Oh dear, theist and athiest debates and arguements are so rediculous on this site.

So many Thiests and Athiests are alike in their hate and missunderstanding of each other.

As long as your a generally good, open minded person, that's all that matters.

 

[mchammer75040]

Add to the fact that theres no historical evidence that he even existed outside of the bible...

Yea and how many cults had stories of similar god-men floating around? The romans kept records of everyone they crucified, and as far as I know they didnt crucify anyone named jesus. But then again those docs could have been tampered with just as much as the bible so who knows.

Zombie: I dont think there are many who disagree with you on that .

 

[DEATHMASTER]

religion = horrible horrible irl fantasy.
Sure who doesn't want there to be eternal bliss or whatever after this? If it exists, well isn't that nice, I hope the 'big guy' can give some answers as well. The existence of nothingness is somewhat disheartening but just know this: we'll all perish one day, our destinations are likely to be the same

 

[Dan]

yeah the close minded people are not only on one side