HL : Source (Full Overhaul Modification)
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AJ Rimmer
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Agreed. But also, the desk is a tad too large.Mac said:
The biggest thing is though, how easy is it gonna be to re-do Barney with hl2 face, minus maybe some stubble but + a BMRF security uniform.
Wow, I just realized how nit-picky everyone who plays this are gonna be...
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Fang
Guest
The easiest way around the Barney issue is to decanonize Opposing Force and Blue Shift, neither of which were made by Valve. I think in HL2 Kleiner makes mention of sending Gordon through the portal to Xen, which would make him the scientist who opens the portal. It would be fairly simple to figure out an encounter arc for Barney that has him bumping into Gordon throughout the course of the game, finishing when he covers Gordon while the portal powers up.
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Lord_Nova
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It was stated by valve a while back when the first expansion came out or something that they fooled around with the idea of a sequal taking place in the same time as the first game. This later on became the idea for expansions, since Valve purposely left out areas and explanations to later be filled in at another time. HL: Decay is a good example of how you can add more to the main story. Even though Gearbox made the expansions they were written by the same people and Valve was still involved in some way (they did reserve the right to veto anything Gearbox suggested).
The whole barney issue is simple enough. The question isn't did Barney and Gordon know eachother at black mesa. From the way the other scientist act around Gordon, I'm sure he's been working there for a good period of time and odds are met Barney in the food court or something. However in Blue Shift, Barney and Gordon never fight alongside eachother. Remember all the Barney's were nice to Gordon and acted like they knew him. So maybe the reason why Gordon and Barney are the way they are in HL2 is cause they both survived the same thing (just that Barney ran away and Gordon kicked ass), not because they fought together (like holocaust survivors or WWII vets... they didn't have to fight together to know what the rest of them went through).
The whole barney issue is simple enough. The question isn't did Barney and Gordon know eachother at black mesa. From the way the other scientist act around Gordon, I'm sure he's been working there for a good period of time and odds are met Barney in the food court or something. However in Blue Shift, Barney and Gordon never fight alongside eachother. Remember all the Barney's were nice to Gordon and acted like they knew him. So maybe the reason why Gordon and Barney are the way they are in HL2 is cause they both survived the same thing (just that Barney ran away and Gordon kicked ass), not because they fought together (like holocaust survivors or WWII vets... they didn't have to fight together to know what the rest of them went through).
I realise that in the game they never meet, and that it's quite likely that they had all worked together for some time. The problem is, how can we show these relationships and introduce new players (who have never played HL1 or the expansions) to these relationships without ever meeting those people.
We don't want to have full conversations, just so that if the player has played HL2 first and then our modification, they recognize where barney came from et cetera
We don't want to have full conversations, just so that if the player has played HL2 first and then our modification, they recognize where barney came from et cetera
BRODIEMAN2k4
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Well make the one that said "If we get through this, I'll buy you a beer" the one true barney
A year at least i'd guesstimate, hard to say.
The deathmatch mode might be much sooner (not HL2 deathmatch, HL1 remade with all original levels).
Maybe a demo or something in 6 months or so, never know. There sure is a lot to do, but it's well underway already. Mapping and modelling has already begun
The deathmatch mode might be much sooner (not HL2 deathmatch, HL1 remade with all original levels).
Maybe a demo or something in 6 months or so, never know. There sure is a lot to do, but it's well underway already. Mapping and modelling has already begun
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Fang
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Ah, I didn't know that. In that case, I guess the relationship between Barney and Gordon is implcit both in HL1 and HL2, so the only place he could show up is pounding on the door.AJ Rimmer said:
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CyberGeek
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Fang said:
I don't remember Kleiner ever saying that in HL2, and if you're referring to the scientist who opens the portal to let Gordon into Xen (the one in the big room,) he more or less can't be. Wrong model and I'm pretty sure Opposing Force kills him (the platform he's on collapses.)
One thing I was thinking about, you may want to consider integrating the HL demo into the mod. If you haven't played it, it contained some exclusive levels that are not included in the final game, so go download it and have some fun.
Sticking an entire extra chapter into the game would be severely messing with the structure of the original game, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were entirely opposed to the idea, but it would open up some unique possibilities.
If you don't integrate the demo but do add in an additional chapter you would have the opportunity to make better use of some of the Source engine's features. You could go for a brief drive with a vehicle through a canyon or encounter both Kleiner and Barney in the same spot, having Barney conveniently offer to buy Gordon a beer later and have Kleiner say that conditions could hardly be more ideal.
It would also help freshen up the game a bit for people like me who have already played through HL's singleplayer more times than they wish to know. It may also help the people who are wanting to suggest radical changes to the game, channeling it into a unique chapter they can go ahead and go wild in.
Once again, though, this could be considered a drastic change, so I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed to see you shoot down the possibility pretty quickly.
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theblindtree
Guest
I haven't read all of the replies about the Barney and Gordon issue, but I think the way I would do it is to set up a little tram ride interaction similar to the one in HL2.
By this I mean that either the game starts with Gordon making way to board the tram with other passengers or he's already on it with other passengers ala HL2. Barney would just have to be one of (if not only) passenger on the same tram that Gordon's on.
The tram could make a stop at the same place that we see Barney pounding on the door in HL1, but this time Barney would get off the tram and wish Gordon good luck with his experiment. Before the tram begins to move again onto Gordon's destination, we see (and hear) Barney desperately trying his access card/key/whatever to open the door without luck. Just as he's about to give up, the tram door(s) close and begin to speed away when Barney turns around to try boarding again, but we see him chase the tram to the end of the walkway before stopping in grief...
Well...what do you think? Yes, this does change a little of the experience from HL1, but it may work better for the overall story in tying together the expansion packs and HL2, as I believe quite a few things this "overhaul" will have to do.
By this I mean that either the game starts with Gordon making way to board the tram with other passengers or he's already on it with other passengers ala HL2. Barney would just have to be one of (if not only) passenger on the same tram that Gordon's on.
The tram could make a stop at the same place that we see Barney pounding on the door in HL1, but this time Barney would get off the tram and wish Gordon good luck with his experiment. Before the tram begins to move again onto Gordon's destination, we see (and hear) Barney desperately trying his access card/key/whatever to open the door without luck. Just as he's about to give up, the tram door(s) close and begin to speed away when Barney turns around to try boarding again, but we see him chase the tram to the end of the walkway before stopping in grief...
Well...what do you think? Yes, this does change a little of the experience from HL1, but it may work better for the overall story in tying together the expansion packs and HL2, as I believe quite a few things this "overhaul" will have to do.
Alright.... been thinking about this mod.... and I've got a few suggestions, and a question, please read on if you're interested:
Right then, first of all, how well do you intend BM: S to look, jheaddon? Just as good as HL2 / or better quality wise?
Secondly, I've got some suggestions, that really are only minor tweaks considering the fact that you're redesigning the game instead of just rehasing old maps.
First of all, if you're gonna do an Opposing Force: Source and Blue-Shift: Source mod, I'd recommend changing a couple things in both of those games and HL. Nothing major.
Firstly, you know on the "We are not alone" map of OpFor, where you crawl out of the vent and overhear the Scientist talking to gordon saying: "It's ready! You must go, now! Hurry up Freeman, I can't keep it open forever!".
Otherwise, it sounds like nothing's going on in there until you open the door. I think it would be cool if you could hear some combat going on in there, like Barney fighting off some Xen Masters, same as Freeman, jumping around and what not until he gets into position, and then you could hear Barney fight until death so it makes sense seeing him dead in that huge room.
That also makes me think you might want to change the design of that Lambda Teleporter Room in the original HL, like the second you run and jump into the teleporter as Gordon Freeman, as the player, may be you could script a sequence where the large door opens and some marine (Adrian Shepard, in this case) runs out of there, just before you jump into the beam.
Also, another thing, between Blue-Shift and Half-Life. You know when Barney and Gordon cross eachother when Barney is banging on the door with his flashlight and Gordon is on the Tram as it's moving along? Well there's some differences between both games in that scene. First of all, the tramin the original HL is going at a much faster sped. Secondly, Gordon Freeman in the original game is positioned at the front of the train, not the back like in Blue-Shift. You also might want to implement some of the Blue-Shift Security Guard / Door ID error sounds once Gordon passes by the tram and vice versa, so this all makes sense.
And last but not least, as mentioned before (I think), the scene where Gordon is knocked out and for a second awakens and listens to both marines talking about what to do about him, Gordon in the original game doesn't hear Barney teleport him, nor sees the vent and the room beyond it where Barney is in for a few seconds due to the fact that 1) Blue-Shift didn't exist when VALVe were designing that map obviously and 2) The position of the player camera isn't facing there. May be just some added sounds then to make that particular scene flow well between both games.
I'm sure there's plenty of other minor tweaks you can do to make it all progress smoothly, just nothing major, so you don't end up George Lucasing Half-Life, OpFor, BlueShift and the like.
And I'd love to help with the project and am very excited about it, but unfortunately I really have no modding experience. Sorry.
Right then, first of all, how well do you intend BM: S to look, jheaddon? Just as good as HL2 / or better quality wise?
Secondly, I've got some suggestions, that really are only minor tweaks considering the fact that you're redesigning the game instead of just rehasing old maps.
First of all, if you're gonna do an Opposing Force: Source and Blue-Shift: Source mod, I'd recommend changing a couple things in both of those games and HL. Nothing major.
Firstly, you know on the "We are not alone" map of OpFor, where you crawl out of the vent and overhear the Scientist talking to gordon saying: "It's ready! You must go, now! Hurry up Freeman, I can't keep it open forever!".
Otherwise, it sounds like nothing's going on in there until you open the door. I think it would be cool if you could hear some combat going on in there, like Barney fighting off some Xen Masters, same as Freeman, jumping around and what not until he gets into position, and then you could hear Barney fight until death so it makes sense seeing him dead in that huge room.
That also makes me think you might want to change the design of that Lambda Teleporter Room in the original HL, like the second you run and jump into the teleporter as Gordon Freeman, as the player, may be you could script a sequence where the large door opens and some marine (Adrian Shepard, in this case) runs out of there, just before you jump into the beam.
Also, another thing, between Blue-Shift and Half-Life. You know when Barney and Gordon cross eachother when Barney is banging on the door with his flashlight and Gordon is on the Tram as it's moving along? Well there's some differences between both games in that scene. First of all, the tramin the original HL is going at a much faster sped. Secondly, Gordon Freeman in the original game is positioned at the front of the train, not the back like in Blue-Shift. You also might want to implement some of the Blue-Shift Security Guard / Door ID error sounds once Gordon passes by the tram and vice versa, so this all makes sense.
And last but not least, as mentioned before (I think), the scene where Gordon is knocked out and for a second awakens and listens to both marines talking about what to do about him, Gordon in the original game doesn't hear Barney teleport him, nor sees the vent and the room beyond it where Barney is in for a few seconds due to the fact that 1) Blue-Shift didn't exist when VALVe were designing that map obviously and 2) The position of the player camera isn't facing there. May be just some added sounds then to make that particular scene flow well between both games.
I'm sure there's plenty of other minor tweaks you can do to make it all progress smoothly, just nothing major, so you don't end up George Lucasing Half-Life, OpFor, BlueShift and the like.
And I'd love to help with the project and am very excited about it, but unfortunately I really have no modding experience. Sorry.
Mechagodzilla
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The simplest way to do that? Don't do it at all!jheaddon said:
If you ask me, that would be dumbing down HL1. If we can understand that Barney in HL2 is the one from Blue shift, and that they were friends beforehand, why should we assume that no-one else can?
It's not just about Blue Shift either. What if you played through HL1 and ignored all the Barney dialogue, or killed every Barney you saw, or if the beer offer never popped up in the random dialogue?
It's a situation of "if it's not broke, why fix it?"
Adding new levels, new characters, new dialogue and nullifying the entire Laidlaw-approved Blue Shift expansion just to prevent some people from maybe being confused over a minor piece of dialogue seems like overkill.
For all we know, Gordon's lack of memory concerning such past friendships and events could be an intentional plot point.
Remember, Half-Life 2 was based on Half-Life 1, not the other way around.
You can add new dialogue and make Barney say "Hello Gordon, I am here with Dr. Kliener and we have been your friends for one year. I will buy you a beer." and you can add a lab that shows the blueprints of the manipulator, the buggy, the fanboat, and gordon can meet DOG version 1.0, and a scientist could mention running into strange race called the combine while visiting Xen, and Barney can mention having once lived in a city called 17, and Dr. Breen can personally award you the "employee of the year" plaque while Eli and his wife watch from the audience.
But then it's less like a self-contained game and more like a list of things that were subtly explained in HL2, re-explained in bold font and less big words for the slow kids in the class to understand.
D
DrGluttonius
Guest
I agree with you mechagodzilla, things does not need to be explained like the players are intellectually challenged children.
However small "easter eggs" are always fun, but they are the last priority, something thats added while most of the team does the final polish before release.
My Question is, will you do all the modelling yourself?
There are so many teams working on different things regarding HL, i am thinking of the Halflife Improvemnt team for one, and their forum is FULL of texturesfor a lot of the simpler things doors/walls etc.
Wouldnt it be a HUGE timesaver if you could (with permission) usa a lot of these "easy textures" and concentrate yourself on things that might be more complicated?
However small "easter eggs" are always fun, but they are the last priority, something thats added while most of the team does the final polish before release.
My Question is, will you do all the modelling yourself?
There are so many teams working on different things regarding HL, i am thinking of the Halflife Improvemnt team for one, and their forum is FULL of texturesfor a lot of the simpler things doors/walls etc.
Wouldnt it be a HUGE timesaver if you could (with permission) usa a lot of these "easy textures" and concentrate yourself on things that might be more complicated?
Wester - Aiming for atleast the same, better in several areas though
DrGluttonius - I've seen all of the textures yeh, but they are all from different artists and created using varying techniques, which questions their real quality. We have a better technique (like the HL2 technique) for texture creation which will give the best results.
And yes we are making all of the models ourselves, they're well underway, like the mapping is.
DrGluttonius - I've seen all of the textures yeh, but they are all from different artists and created using varying techniques, which questions their real quality. We have a better technique (like the HL2 technique) for texture creation which will give the best results.
And yes we are making all of the models ourselves, they're well underway, like the mapping is.
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True_Eraser
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In opposing force, that scientist ran back through a doorway before the platform collapsed.
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CyberGeek
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Ah. Still the wrong model, though.
I've been thinking about the suggestion that Kleiner be the scientist just before that one, the one that points a shotgun at you. I didn't like the idea because it seemed to me that Kleiner would have been one of the scientists speaking to you over the loudspeaker, to which someone said he could have been in a remote location, which still didn't entirely satisfy me.
So I decided to play through HL:S again, and in the test chamber an idea struck me. Once again it's an idea that changes the game slightly, but this one allows for no changes in gameplay. You could have a video monitor above the observation window. Something in black-and-white, probably, and it would show the face of whatever scientist is currently speaking. The position of the cameras would vary from scientist to scientist. Some may show a more or less straight on view, others may show them from the side.
This would allow you to show Kleiner in lambda labs. That room in the game is fairly distinctive, so the player may recognize it when he comes across it again. This would allow you to have:
1 - Kleiner speaking to Gordon over the loudspeaker
2 - Kleiner doesn't get fried with all of the scientists in the observation room
3 - Kleiner gets to be a distinct scientist who doesn't have a scripted death or anything.
4 - You get to see him more than once in the game (Ok so it's only twice, but whatever.)
5 - You haven't actually changed any gameplay. No scientist's behavior has to change from the original.
6 - It's an excuse to use a fancy Source engine feature.
I've been thinking about the suggestion that Kleiner be the scientist just before that one, the one that points a shotgun at you. I didn't like the idea because it seemed to me that Kleiner would have been one of the scientists speaking to you over the loudspeaker, to which someone said he could have been in a remote location, which still didn't entirely satisfy me.
So I decided to play through HL:S again, and in the test chamber an idea struck me. Once again it's an idea that changes the game slightly, but this one allows for no changes in gameplay. You could have a video monitor above the observation window. Something in black-and-white, probably, and it would show the face of whatever scientist is currently speaking. The position of the cameras would vary from scientist to scientist. Some may show a more or less straight on view, others may show them from the side.
This would allow you to show Kleiner in lambda labs. That room in the game is fairly distinctive, so the player may recognize it when he comes across it again. This would allow you to have:
1 - Kleiner speaking to Gordon over the loudspeaker
2 - Kleiner doesn't get fried with all of the scientists in the observation room
3 - Kleiner gets to be a distinct scientist who doesn't have a scripted death or anything.
4 - You get to see him more than once in the game (Ok so it's only twice, but whatever.)
5 - You haven't actually changed any gameplay. No scientist's behavior has to change from the original.
6 - It's an excuse to use a fancy Source engine feature.
Also, some other things.....
You know how (due to some skeletal animation bug methinks) on the Quake 1.5 engine in HL, OpFor, and BS how when scientists or security guards press buttons, their mouths open to sync with the sounds? That's extruciating, annoying, and extremely odd. I hope this has been cleaned up already in the Direct Source Engine port of HL, and won't show up in BM: S.
And remember the scene where the scientist and security guard in the gear preparation room @ the Lambda Complex warn you on about what you're about to face, just before you enter the large teleportation room? You know how the scientist holds up that special shiny shotgun? When he puts it down, it transforms from being that shiny shotgun to a regular one. I hope BM: resolves this too.
One last thing.... you know how when you press certain elevator buttons, they don't light up? You might want to change that too in BM: S, instead of just being static 2D texture maps that are usable.
Just some thoughts.
You know how (due to some skeletal animation bug methinks) on the Quake 1.5 engine in HL, OpFor, and BS how when scientists or security guards press buttons, their mouths open to sync with the sounds? That's extruciating, annoying, and extremely odd. I hope this has been cleaned up already in the Direct Source Engine port of HL, and won't show up in BM: S.
And remember the scene where the scientist and security guard in the gear preparation room @ the Lambda Complex warn you on about what you're about to face, just before you enter the large teleportation room? You know how the scientist holds up that special shiny shotgun? When he puts it down, it transforms from being that shiny shotgun to a regular one. I hope BM: resolves this too.
One last thing.... you know how when you press certain elevator buttons, they don't light up? You might want to change that too in BM: S, instead of just being static 2D texture maps that are usable.
Just some thoughts.
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v.dog
Guest
Personally, in the interest of building relationships with the characters, I believe that the 'real' Barney should be the first and last one that you see (ie: the one who lets you off the train, and the one who fights with you in the teleportation chambler).
It's not really that huge an issue tho'; I think that the best thing is to get it done, and then worry about the smaller things like induvidual npc models.
It's not really that huge an issue tho'; I think that the best thing is to get it done, and then worry about the smaller things like induvidual npc models.
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Lord_Nova
Guest
The best way to do things is the way it was done in HL1 to begin with. Just have the same Barney model (and the fat one). HL2 does this as well with it's resistence fighters (I saw the exact same group plenty of times in HL2). I mean unless you wanna add in more script, though this is a FPS and not an RPG so the pacing should be similar to HL to begin with i.e. no more then 5 minutes worth of dialogue here and there.
C
CyberGeek
Guest
Ok now THAT looks good. Very good work.
Except for you should've held off, 'cause now I can't wait, lol.
Except for you should've held off, 'cause now I can't wait, lol.
Kalashnikov
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Ah! Beta Leak! Games Delayed . Yes, that is from the Chapter 'We've Got Hostiles'. This simply goes to show that we are working hard behind our tightly sealed doors at BM: S. We're presently working on the website and it will be online soon. I see that the Barney issues has been well thought through over here and its great to see a lot of community involvement in "banging out" the clinks in the storyline. We're still looking for another modeller, animator and texture artist: so if you know someone who would fit one of those positions, or if you yourself can fit it, send us in an application *Insert Catchy Recruitment Saying Here*
. Yes, that is from the Chapter 'We've Got Hostiles'. This simply goes to show that we are working hard behind our tightly sealed doors at BM: S. We're presently working on the website and it will be online soon. I see that the Barney issues has been well thought through over here and its great to see a lot of community involvement in "banging out" the clinks in the storyline. We're still looking for another modeller, animator and texture artist: so if you know someone who would fit one of those positions, or if you yourself can fit it, send us in an application *Insert Catchy Recruitment Saying Here*looks cool, but
The prob is it looks like Half Life 2, ie the textures dont look like they belong in Black Mesa, I would suggest you either make your own textures or you get permission to use the excellant Remake HL Source textures project thats in the General Editing forum
The prob is it looks like Half Life 2, ie the textures dont look like they belong in Black Mesa, I would suggest you either make your own textures or you get permission to use the excellant Remake HL Source textures project thats in the General Editing forum
Element Alpha
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Are you going the keep the caroonish hl1 colors or not?
Also:
Are you going to use vehicles even though they don't appear in the original? ... please do
Also:
Are you going to use vehicles even though they don't appear in the original? ... please do
DarkStar
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jheaddon said:
See, I think you guys are doing a great job and am eagerly anticipating the final product but in the interest of getting this thing released why don't you just use HL2 textures where they are appropriate? Maybe release a beta using HL2 material until you get all the textures and models redone. That screenshot looks really awesome and plenty like Black Mesa IMO. I guess I just really want to play this as soon as possible, and I'm not too concerned about it looking EXACTLY like Black Mesa.
Yeh site has had a full overhaul and hopefully only a few more days (sorry i keep saying that, went from one dev to another, but this one will finish it).
Think vehicles are being kept out, varies way too far from the original.
In reply to using HL2 material, if we use the Hl2 material and release we'll get alot of complaints, even if we say we're going to update them, alot of people just don't read whats infront of them. So best to keep it till it really is nice and polished, this does however mean it will take longer, sorry!
Think vehicles are being kept out, varies way too far from the original.
In reply to using HL2 material, if we use the Hl2 material and release we'll get alot of complaints, even if we say we're going to update them, alot of people just don't read whats infront of them. So best to keep it till it really is nice and polished, this does however mean it will take longer, sorry!
