HL2 A.I Vs. Halo 2 A.I.

[lans]

The facts:

Halo 2

The AI for everything has been pumped up. Marines will hide behind cover, flip over tables for shelter, and call in snipers when needed. The Covenant will recognize destroyable elements, and blow away your cover. Enemies are no longer tied to zones on the map, and will hunt you wherever you go- or call in search parties to do so. The Covenant will also show off a bevy of new movies- expect to see them scurrying under ledges and climbing columns to take the action to new levels. Elites will move more jackal-like (the cat, not the Covie) and Jackals will act birdlike. Enemies will also use flashlights to search you out.

"Rumors",

The AI will be so good that the Brute's will dislike Jackals and vice versa, one of the guys in bungie's forum says that they'll actually have grudges and fights amongst them before you arrive.

Enemies can dual weild weapons

Enemies can also make their own cover (as in drop tables) and use them.

Enemies react when MC is around, as in you can actually see their expressions of being scared (improving on the grunt running away from battle formula).

Half-life 2

According to valve:

"AI - Neither friends nor enemies charge blindly into the fray. They can assess threats, navigate tricky terrain, and fashion weapons from whatever is at hand."

Plan,act,respond

Known example of smartness:

E3 2003 video, traptown. Enemies shoot through windows and break doors.

Evidence that it is NOT scripted:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultima Gecko's email to Rick Ellis

6. How much of the original E3 2003 was scripted? I've heard that almost all of it was, that most of it was, or that it was just using lots of AI hints. While it would be very cool if the AI was that dynamic I could see that using a lot of hints and some scripting too, so I'm just wondering.

*** That was actual AI that you saw running. We don't have a scripting language in Source, we use entity I/O to connect various pieces of AI together. AI hints are used to tell the AI things like where cover points are, hints on pathing etc

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line:

Well that's all we know about HL2's A.I.

Halo 2's A.I. seems to have high potential, looks very promising, do you think hl2 will live upto it?

 

[Sparta]

Everything i've seen of the AI from the video's doesnt really show much from either party. If anything Half-Life 2's AI seem's to react more to everything around them and they seem to co-operate in a team well (Strider clips 2004). Halo 2's Ai does have a lot of potential. I'll have to play both games before i can say which is better

 

[Entr0py]

I remember the shoot out scene with Barney and the A.I. looked pretty good, providing cover and waiting at corners.

 

[brink's]

I would think that the AI would be dumped down for an xbox game, but im not sure.

 

[disruptioN_]

The AI in both games looks sweet, but I think the HL2 AI looks better. In the 2003 E3 video for Halo 2 the marines didn't seem to be doing too much...

 

[Neo_Kuja]

I prefer the HL2 A.I. Bringing out "Search Parties", like in Far Cry no longer satisifies me. Throwing over tables is okay, but smashing windows to shoot through, breaking down doors looks far more impressive to me than Duel-Weilding Weapons enemys ....

 

[posthl63]

I think HL2 is gonna win by a longshot, I expect that when i play Halo all im gonna see in the AI are the same alien BOTS that i killed in the first one, even if thay manage to push over a table that just happened to be in the area.

 

[shyy]

the traptown all AI is bs, the part where the combine kicked the door was indeed scripted

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

I really dont see the point in this thread.

 

[Slime]

Valve said it wasn't. Although the game has been delayed a couple of times I really can't force myself to believe that Valve would lie about HL2 to make it look like worth the wait...

 

[Tamer17]

Valve doesn't lie.

People misinterpret what they say or they think they know everything about the game after playing some very old stolen files pieced together.

 

[Beserker]

the traptown all AI is bs, the part where the combine kicked the door was indeed scripted

¨
Prove it.


So, there is no party-controlling in Halo2? If not, then HL2 is beating Halo2, besides, HL2 is for PC!

 

[Xrenity]

Half Life 2, they've been working on it for a LONG time, and I believe Gabe...

 

[DarkStar]

¨
Prove it.

I think he is referring to the leak. In it, I've NEVER gotten the soldiers to kick the door in like what was shown in the video. Although, the leak is an unfinished product so that really doesn't prove anything.

 

[Beserker]

Although, the leak is an unfinished product so that really doesn't prove anything.

There we go, no way proving or/and disproving it.

 

[iamaelephant]

Well I played the leak and that prt of it was indeed BS. Completely scripted. Obviously it wont be in the final game but Gabe was flat out lying when he said everything in the E3 2003 movies was real.

 

[lans]

Well I played the leak and that prt of it was indeed BS. Completely scripted. Obviously it wont be in the final game but Gabe was flat out lying when he said everything in the E3 2003 movies was real.

but again the fact that it was a LEAK...as in: NOT FINAL product comes in.

I guess we'll never know untill the game actually comes out, so let's forget it.

On the other hand, I'm more intrested in how they'll use tactics, it's gonna be pretty boring if they just walk in front and stand and shoot from the same place (like in other video examples).

 

[Dead-Inside]

Halo 2's A.I. seems to have high potential, looks very promising, do you think hl2 will live upto it?

It's on an ordinary Xbox, 'nuff said.

 

[Axyon]

AI is just processor calculations - I'm pretty sure AI could be programmed equally on a PC and Xbox. It does look like Valve's put in the extra work to make their AI truly superior, though.

 

[Tamer17]

The leak is OLDER than what was shown in E3 2003 .

If you are gonna talk about the leak , at least know the facts.

(Gabe never said the Traptown wasn't scripted either , he talked about the allies' AI in the Barricade movie)

 

[Jimlad]

I thought we'd already established that the Traptown part had been scripted, in threads long ago? In any case, it's quite easy to "prove" - go download the stolen files and see for yourself, it's quite clearly scripted, and I seem to remember that Valve had already confirmed this, saying that it was only done to illustrate what the finished AI would probably be like.

I think it's a fair point - you can't use it as an example of what the AI is like in HL2, you can only use examples of the AI actually acting for itself. It would be like someone saying, "Yeah, here's a recording of me playing some amazing guitar. But it's not really me, it's just an example of what I'll be like in 20 years. Impressive, huh?"

 

[Zerox]

People only hear what they want to hear.

 

[Aphal]

The leak is OLDER than what was shown in E3 2003 .

If you are gonna talk about the leak , at least know the facts.

(Gabe never said the Traptown wasn't scripted either , he talked about the allies' AI in the Barricade movie)

Uhmm... is that why the leak has the hoodless buggy, and newer police model, which were shown at E3 2004 (and NOT 2003)

 

[Sparta]

What newer police model?

 

[Aphal]

What newer police model?

Look very closely. They reskinned the police from 2003.

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/5869_2004-03-22_08.jpg
^old

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/halflife2pc_043004_002.jpg
^new

 

[Sparta]

That doesnt prove anything, we already know the combine have multiple uniforms. This could simply be another uniform.

 

[lans]

I thought we'd already established that the Traptown part had been scripted, in threads long ago? In any case, it's quite easy to "prove" - go download the stolen files and see for yourself, it's quite clearly scripted, and I seem to remember that Valve had already confirmed this, saying that it was only done to illustrate what the finished AI would probably be like.

I think it's a fair point - you can't use it as an example of what the AI is like in HL2, you can only use examples of the AI actually acting for itself. It would be like someone saying, "Yeah, here's a recording of me playing some amazing guitar. But it's not really me, it's just an example of what I'll be like in 20 years. Impressive, huh?"

so then you are trying to say Rick Ellis was lying about the AI being real in that part in the e-mail?

Maybe at that point, the hacker might have stolen some older version which had the scripted AI, and valve hadn't implemented the new engine's capability. No wonder why they are so relaxed after the source code is stolen, because they knew that everything wasn't spoilt.

And another valve e-mail also confirmed that the stolen built WAS old.

 

[Jimlad]

People only hear what they want to hear.

So very true.

 

[NeLi]

It's on an ordinary Xbox, 'nuff said.

That has nothing to do with it. Processor power doesn't come into play a lot when talking about AI.

Anyway, the Halo AI was fantastic! Even today, it holds its own among all the new titles. If they really do improve the AI even more so in Halo2, I wouldn't be suprised if it was equally good, or better than the one in HL2.

 

[MaDMaXX]

Actually, AI is cpu based. Anyway, i think the point being made was its harder to play an fps on an xbox controller than a keyb and mouse, thus dumbed down AI to suit.

 

[MaDMaXX]

Come on guys, the ai was not scripted, the leak was not a game leak. *SOME* of the game's source code was stolen, this was then changed and hacked together to form a just about playable version of the code they stole. Anything but art gleamed from this is almost completely useless, it was not all the code.
It was never decided that traptown was scripted, that was people asumption. They've stated already that they don't have scripting. The AI is controled by hints and the game world.
What *HAS* been already disclosed is that the Soldiers/AI in the vids was specificly told what it could and couldn't do for the tech demonstrations purposes.
A lot of the AI was given a hint to stand in a certain place when the player performed a certain action, ie. the falling container, in other sections, like barracade, they had stay put flags put on them. IT WAS A DEMONSTRATION.
As the AI is controlled by specific coding and sepparate files, the chances of the code steelers getting the e3 specific AI hints was quite low based on what people have said from the shoddy build that was cobbled together.

 

[phantomdesign]

Halo AI was fiarly stupid. They shoot and duck behind large objects. I don't see any tatics that wern't scripted or anything impressive.

Regardless I think this thread is pointless until both games are released.

 

[Someone]

Think it's one of those cases where it's a bit early to tell.

Hard to judge, and a bit unfair to judge, a stolen build or videos or what we've been told thus far.

There really aren't any "facts" because we don't have the games to test and play around with; we only have what we have been told to be "true". And let's face it...obviously game makers hype their games to sell their product, so it would probably would be easy to assume neither will be quite as good as the hype. They will no doubt be solid in the ai department, but maybe not quite as good as we would all hope. And even then, when the games are out, it will still be opinion what is "good" and what isn't.

 

[NeLi]

Halo AI was fiarly stupid. They shoot and duck behind large objects. I don't see any tatics that wern't scripted or anything impressive.

They were intelligent. Hardly any FPS games today could even match the AI in Halo. (and Halo is oold)

 

[subtlesnake]

I have to agree, just playing Halo recently I was confronted by an elite in a woodland area. When I moved behind some handily placed trees for protection he would strafe round me, hiding behind trees himself and popping out only momentarily to attack. Very impressive.

But I can see HL2 doing all of these things, and there's certainly a lot more potential for the A.I to be exploited in HL2 with soldiers busting down doors, firing through windows and working together as a team.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Looking forward to both games, but I don't have an Xbox

Edit - Although I hope it's easier to attach plasma grenades/needle gun to the grunts (grunts? the things that go 'wort wort'). That wasn't A-I, that was A-nnoying.

 

[Go Go Codgo]

Halo's AI was good, the enemy kept themselves moving alot, but i never saw any real tactics being used, AI in Call Of Duty impressed me, quite inpressive if you put the difficulty up a bit, HL2's AI looks impressive from what can be seen, Combine have common sence to try to move out of the way on Gordon's buggy and other objects, can't really say much else about it.

 

[bodhi]

you could argue that that everything was scripted as all the characters have a set library of animations that they can use but the point is that what the character choses to do will largely depend on the surrounding influences. i.e what you tell them to do (like open a door for you) and what they 'naturally' do (like running away from an enemy or moving to some cover. any way theres no point at all because all the videos seen from these games and indeed pretty much any game will have an element of choroeography to it simply because games designers want to show you what cool things can happen in the game - you cant make any judgement on how good the AI actually is from a video because its just a video, not real time and therefore you cant add the element of unpredictablility that comes from you actually sitting down and playing it there and then that would really test the AI and its responses

 

[Go Go Codgo]

I'd like to see how the AI in HL2 reactes to certain situations, for instance going through a door, if a Combine knows that the player is inside somewhere will he open the door carefully or will he just kick it open and run in, or if he can see the player does he always kick it just open? or open it normally. How many actions can the AI perform in certain situations.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Wow, I didn't knew anything about Halo 2's AI but it sounds interesting!

Although I think HL2's AI will be better, I'm not entirely sure though.