hl2 @ alpha stage...

mbrithoms said:
there in PRE-alpha now?!?! loooool its now blatantly obvious that last years e3 was a complete lie and so was 'were playtesting it now' the leaked alpha contained ALL of the content they had at the time of e3 (basically the levels shown at e3), deny all you want fanboys but it was no where near complete 4 days before sep 30th last year and all valve do is friggin lie! all the goddam time
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:upstare: ..

1. puntuation would not do you any harm.
2. calm down.
3. no.
 
Instead of all of these people e-mailing Gabe about when HL2 will be released, they should e-mail him and ask whats left to be done. :smoking:
 
Lethal8472 said:
Instead of all of these people e-mailing Gabe about when HL2 will be released, they should e-mail him and ask whats left to be done. :smoking:
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Yeah, still get the same answer I'd bet, "stuff." They aren't going to tell people whats left to due, because this isn't a mod, this is a game company.
 
Reading through the posts I have a hard time understanding why people can't take the term "pre-alpha" at face value...

I mean why suggest the "translation" must be wrong or that Gabe doesn't understand the term despite running a game company for 8 years!!!

Pre-alpha is just that!!! Pre-alpha!


June 13th 2003 - Birdwell :farmer: - Game is half playable
April 25th 2004 - Newell :cool: - Game is fully playable

10 months to get the other half playable!!!

and then we learn:

May 2nd 2004 - Newell :cool: - Half-Life 2 is currently in pre-alpha fase

The more I read and analyse the various articles and direct quotes from Valve employees the more I realize just how far away this game really is...

The writing is on the wall for HL2 - it's going to be April 2005!!! :D :D :imu:
 
mbrithoms said:
there in PRE-alpha now?!?! loooool its now blatantly obvious that last years e3 was a complete lie and so was 'were playtesting it now' the leaked alpha contained ALL of the content they had at the time of e3 (basically the levels shown at e3), deny all you want fanboys but it was no where near complete 4 days before sep 30th last year and all valve do is friggin lie! all the goddam time
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was it possible to play through the levels shown at e3 in the leak?
 
jonnyapps said:
was it possible to play through the levels shown at e3 in the leak?
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No, it was just a bunch of unfinished levels/art. Half-Done would have been overstating it. Not worth anybody's time unless they're raving fan-boys.

..ehr .. or so i heard ;)

/edit: well you could play through the E3 levels sure. But not without seeing "ERROR" all over the place and little text reminders going "maybe we should put some texture here, or something".
 
Geez people, it's not like there's a developer handbook called the 'The Complete Guide to Game Development' where it says at which stage a game is alpha and at which state it's beta. It's just by the definition of the developer, if one developer wants to call a game with 2 six-polygon boxes and some sprites running around pre-alpha, than that's okay, if another company wants to call their product which only needs lots of bugsmashing and balancing pre-alpha, than it's okay too. For all we care, Gabe calls it Grand Master status....
 
it's fairly obvious that the game is approaching a stage of completion whereby it is nearly ready to ship. Disregard the terminology. We know it's nearly complete by the new press releases and obvious preparation for E3
 
I dont think well really know anything until e3. For all we know, half our theories about various subjects could be blown out of the water. Of course, there is the chilling probability that there wont be hardly any new news about HL2...
 
Lethal8472 said:
I dont think well really know anything until e3. For all we know, half our theories about various subjects could be blown out of the water. Of course, there is the chilling probability that there wont be hardly any new news about HL2...
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E3 is gonna have huge new content, a definitive release date and a show-stealing array of special effects to boot. IMO
 
Dedatorv, you're being a bit misleading:

-Alpha IS when the game is essentially done, playable all the way through, but the company still might want to add, subtract, or change things to make it more enjoyable, or change content.
-Beta means that NOTHING about the game changes anymore other than bug fixes and optimizations: basically just making sure the game is safe to release. If they are still playing with monster balance and gameplay, then they are NOT in beta.
-There is no real technical meaning to "pre-gold," but if implies that the game is already beta, then again, it's just bugfixes, compatibility, and optimizations: no content or game changes. The game is not pre-gold in anything other than the sense in which EVERY non-gold game is "pre-gold" by definition.
-"Pre-alpha" again has no real technical meaning at all, but if it means that the game, well, is anywhere before pre-alpha, then it could mean, again, just about anything prior to alpha.

If "pre-alpha" really is the term Gabe used, what I get from that is that they are still considering a couple of content additions/deletions, so while most of the game is basically in the alpha stage, there are enough sections they are thinking about that they didn't want to declare it all officially alpha just yet.
 
Whatever stage they may be in, it still doesn't tell us how lnog till its released. So really, why discuss this?
Just sit down and wait for e3 when Valve till be a bit more specific.
 
Keeson said:
Reading through the posts I have a hard time understanding why people can't take the term "pre-alpha" at face value...

I mean why suggest the "translation" must be wrong or that Gabe doesn't understand the term despite running a game company for 8 years!!!

Pre-alpha is just that!!! Pre-alpha!


June 13th 2003 - Birdwell :farmer: - Game is half playable
April 25th 2004 - Newell :cool: - Game is fully playable

10 months to get the other half playable!!!

and then we learn:

May 2nd 2004 - Newell :cool: - Half-Life 2 is currently in pre-alpha fase

The more I read and analyse the various articles and direct quotes from Valve employees the more I realize just how far away this game really is...

The writing is on the wall for HL2 - it's going to be April 2005!!! :D :D :imu:
Click to expand...

ahhh yes but you missed an important date there september 30th 2003 where Gabe stated 'the game is finished and were playtesting it'
what a bunch of horsesh*t
 
The game was pretty much finished back when they were making HL1 the first time: and they decided to take another year to redo it. They make the call once they have the product in front of them whether to ship or to try for something more and better. That the game didn't come out doesn't tell us much about how much was done, or whether they were being sincere about it when.
 
I can't wait until E3, but I am anticipating it so much, that every second feels like a minute, every minute feels like an hour, every hour feels like a day, and everyday feels like a year. I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL E3, ARRRG!!
 
There are three recognized stages in computer programming:

Alpha: This generally refers to the first working version of the software. It is missing many features and has many bugs, but at least it works.

Beta: The program is considered feature complete and serious testing and bug fixing begins.

Gold: The program is finished and ready for shipping.

From the sounds of it, Half-Life 2 is quite definitely in the beta phase.
 
It can't be in beta, because they are still playing with gameplay stuff like enemies, object placement, pacing, etc. You never add or remove major stuff after you truly hit beta: you'd have to go back and then bug test everything all over again. Of course, tech terms are used pretty sloppily and loosely, so I guess it could mean just about anything.
 
I take the "pre-alpha" quote as seriously good news from Gabe!!! :bounce:

Think out it, people, Gabe would obviously be familiar with the terms "alpha", "beta", etc., in regards to development, especially since these words would be spoken alot at Valve HQ these days. Now, completely agreeing with those that an "alpha" stage of development is not near completion (you don't even have a "beta" of the software yet...)....

I can only logically assume that Gabe is talking about release candidates as in "we currently have a pre-alpha release candidate". The terms alpha, beta, can refer to any staged event, and often is in software development. Which means then they'll next have an alpha release, a few betas, and GOLD! So...

Given what we know about the game coming out soon, and knowing Gabe is a smart man (please, all "I hate Valve and I hate Gabe flames take a rest") who runs a successful software development company (and therefore wouldn't screw up and say the whole PROJECT is in "pre-alpha" stage), this is what he probably meant.

At least, this is my positive 2 cents on the whole thing! :thumbs:
 
mbrithoms said:
ahhh yes but you missed an important date there september 30th 2003 where Gabe stated 'the game is finished and were playtesting it'
what a bunch of horsesh*t
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I don't recall him saying it was finished... he did say earlier that they were playtesting half of it...

Here is what he did say on September 30th, 2003 on Alcatraz Island as the ATI XT launch:

Gabe Newell: I hate release dates because no matter how hard we try, we screw them up. We held back talking about our release date going into September 30 because I wanted to have a much clearer idea of what day we were going to ship on.

Right now all we can say is holidays of this year, which to me feels really unfortunate. Our customers really want to know. They say, "Tell us what the date is going to be," and that's what they want to hear. They're fine with what the date is; they just want to know so they can plan accordingly.

Right now it's for the holidays. I wish we had a clearer date to give people at this time. ​

The interesting thing he says is "plan accordingly". He seems to imply that he understands that when we have a "firm" date like Sept. 30th or a "semi-firm" date like "holidays 2003", we as gamers are more likely to open our wallets for hardware upgrades (i.e. buy an ATI XT card) . ATI and Valve both knew this, and used it to there advantage to get us to upgrade prematurely. Of course fake release date to achieve video card sales is unethical in my books....

Anyway 2003 was merely a marketing year for ATI and Valve. The year 2004 will be a development year for Valve and 2005 will be the release...
 
Now, completely agreeing with those that an "alpha" stage of development is not near completion
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Alpha actually is technically pretty near completetion: it means that what remains is just tweaking and playtesting: all that basic content and game is in place already.
 
Well, as oft happens with these long posts, I read the first page and ignore the rest, so if it's been said, bear with me.

It is HIGHLY HUGELY UNLIKELY that HL2 is in Alpha or Pre-Alpha stage. And for you who are incorrect about your interpretation (again, I've not seen if anyone has the "correct" definition), Alpha in the game industry is when approximately 70% of the code for a game is complete (it refers more to code than to say levels being complete or whathaveyou). In this stage the game can generally be played, but may have features not yet added in or so (for instance, perhaps you could pick up the manipulator gun but not use it because its code hasn't been written). (So, based on this, pre-alpha would mean that less than 70% of the code is complete).

What many of you were mistaking it for was the Beta stage. Beta refers to the point in time when major coding is complete. What I mean by major is that the code is done, but tweaks remain, so if in testing something goes wrong, code can be created, it's not like the code is locked as it is at Gold stage. Games will undergo internal betas with the creators looking for errors, and it may go either to an outside group for further testing, or may go to a public beta session where they let more people try to help them to fix bugs.

Finally, there is Gold stage. This is when the code is locked (save for on-going patches, etc that the devs release) and the gold master CD is created and shipped for replication (often in China these days I hear). After it's been produced and shipped back to wherever in the world it is going, it gets sent to the stores, and then we all go home and play to our hearts' content.

There, your quickie guide to the latter milestones in a game's life! (There are others like proof of concept and stuff that go before, but this thread was about alpha).
 
I have no idea where you get this "70%" thing from. Alpha is simply when all the basic elements are in place. If the manipulator is not working because it isn't done yet (rather than it not working because it's a bug), then it's not really at alpha. Between alpha and beta is where you adjust what you have, not where you add the last 30%.
 
bah, does it really matter? Whatever happens I'll be throwing down my $50, or more if the collectors edition costs more, and playing the game. If they need to take more time cause they don't like it I say go for it. As long as it comes out this year or next year I'll be content, maybe not happy if it hits next year. Everyone who whines about Valve being liars and stuff have obviously never worked in the game industry, thats just my 5 cents.
 
the gold master CD is created and shipped for replication (often in China these days I hear)
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China? What? CDs are sent for duplication in regional plants (typically two in the US, one in Germany for Europe etc). Definitely not China :)
 
I wouldn't try to project a universal definitions of alpha and beta on to what is being said here. Even if we put aside the fact that Gabe wants wriggling room for unforeseen eventualities to avoid what happened last year with Sept 30, and so is obviously going to be conservative with the press until it is actually being pressed - alpha and beta means different things to different developers.

People have been known to release very stable and functional "alpha" versions which are still not near final release, in comparison to others who release shockingly incomplete 'in-development' alpha that should really still be in oven so to speak. Some people use beta as an on-going release candidate and when they get the green-light from testing information or the publisher then that particular beta ie. 1.5 etc just becomes Gold. Whereas there are others who use beta in a more ad hock manner where eventually they are happy enough to call it 'final 0.7' etc - which is basically a 'good beta' because it is still in progress....
 
The point to the terms is not any of those things you mentioned. Yes, some alphas can be stable, some can be buggy as hell. That's not what defines an alpha. An alpha is the point when you first lay down all the basic stuff in one package: when you bring everything together and see how it all works as a game. During that alpha stage you are still changing major things around. Once you declare beta, then you really ARE working towards a release candidate: you have locked down the game and now just want to make sure it's bug free, compatible on all different systems, fix all the little glitches and maybe a couple of variables to control balance issues, etc. Any beta version can instantly be declared a release candidate, shipped to a developer so that they can independantly test and either accept or reject the candidate (though in Valve's case, they might just do the evaluation themselves, or maybe this is Vivendi). When one is accepted, the game goes gold, and that's that.

Of course, even once you hit on a final release candidate, the developer or producer can reject it so harshly that you basically go back to alpha all over again to retool the basic game: in the case of HL1, they basically went from beta all the way back to pre-alpha to redesign the game from the ground up because they realized that instead of a B-list title released today, they could make an A-list title in only a year more.
 
Apos said:
I have no idea where you get this "70%" thing from.
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I get it from GAM 150 - Game Productions Class, with my prof having been in the industry for many years, so I trust him.

The 70% isn't a fixed guideline to be sure, but it is basically a stage where there's a majority of the stuff in place but not quite all.
 
PiMuRho said:
China? What? CDs are sent for duplication in regional plants (typically two in the US, one in Germany for Europe etc). Definitely not China :)
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As before, this is going off of what my prof told us, he said something like this in his lecture about the cycle of a game and how in order for titles to ship in time for Christmas (obviously the largest selling season), games have to be ready so they can be duplicated, stored in warehouses in China, shipped, blah blah. I don't doubt they have duplication over there :/ Highly likely other places as you mentioned, but hey, why not put one in a place where you can get cheap labor lol.
 
It's entirely subjective. Here's my definitions:

Alpha = OMG! IT Works! It....ah. Crashed.

Beta = OMG! It works! IT works! <10 minutes later> It's still working!

Gold = Mainly done, but we'll fix the problems after it's shipped
 
Heh. Let's hope that Valve has spent long enough with mostly complete game code that the bug quashing shouldn't be quite as big of an issue.
 
Headwires said:
who said we were getting a release date at E3? i missed that.
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just my speculation. As i see it Valve have probably got their game at a stage where they can definitively give a target release date. The only way they can impress fans at E3 after so much happening to disappoint them, is to blow us away with some kind of genius concept or graphic implemented in HL2 and then right at the end go 'oh yeah, and it'll be out tomorrow'. I'd bet my 2 cents that gabe pulls out a gold copy from his over large pockets at the end of the show and blows us all away
 
Doug Lombardi said they're hoping to announce a release date at E3 in Pc Gamer. Hoping doesn't mean they will. My personal opinion is they won't.
 
Well alpha is a pre-play testing state, and I can tell you now that if this is indeed true, then there is not a chance of us seeing it for another 6 months as this is the average time required for thorough testing.
 
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