HL2:Episode 2, Portal @ gamespot

[Godron]

Darkside55 - Finally great theory after all those Cloverfield monster travesty posts.
Good point with aquatic origin of Dropships, they even have "legs" which reminds lampreys.

From Wikipedia
Depiction of the dropship using the Half-Life 2 Model Viewer shows that the pads are modeled after, and are identical to the mouths of lampreys.

By the way, what is this Cloverfield thing of which you speak?

 

[Polaris]

Huh, nice find.
Cloverfield is the code name of an upcoming science fiction film produced by J. J. Abrams, Darkside is evidently obsessed with monster from this movie.

 

[ríomhaire]

RtB says that dropships were originally designed to be somewhat "crablike".

 

[Darkside55]

I would certainly love to work for Valve, even if it wasn't for Half-Life. But I'd be severely under-utilized.

Have you actually invented any of your own random Xen creatures?

I made up a synth I'm rather proud of that I never named, or rather I should say I never gave it a proper name. I've always referred to it internally as the "runner-flier." It was a synth duo consisting of a fast-attack aerial creature who supported a larger, bull-rush attack synth that it'd drop as a payload. I wrote a pre-Combine backstory for it and everything.

Outside of that...I mostly just analyze the creatures already exist.

Oh, and flying headcrabs, although I'm proabably far from the first person to think of that one. And that'd really be a subspecies.

Also, how would high oxygen content stop gravity from crushing something's innards?

Ah I wrote that wrong, my mistake. I'm still trying to figure this out myself (and so are paleoentomologists).

See, the higher oxygen is necessary for insects because their entire body acts as one big lung...air flows in, air flows out. And because bugs use up a lot of energy going about their daily activities, higher oxygen content means more air traveling through their tracheae, allowing their bodies to expand to greater sizes. So that's point one.

Point two is the gravity, which is probably completely unrelated, my bad for coonecting the two. Bugs today are limited by gravity because of their chitinous exoskeletons. If a bug got even the size of a chicken it'd probably crush itself flat. So theoretically, there must've been reduced gravity in the past, but there's no evidence I've ever seen to support this. In fact there's contrary evidence, evidence that says Earth's gravity at that time was constant with what it is now. The only differences I personally know of with regard to Earth's state were climate, oxygen content, and land formation. Could any of those factors be responsible? I dunno. But a big bug would need drastically lower gravity. Which explains how antlions can thrive in Xen, but they should be pancakes here.

Darkside is evidently obsessed with monster from this movie.

I get bored sometimes and it's fun to say.

Cloverfield monster. Cloooooverfieeeeeld monsterrrrr.

You try it.

 

[Planetary]

They used to be "crablike"

Damn that's big.

Could that be your monster, Darkside?

 

[delusional]

Point two is the gravity, which is probably completely unrelated, my bad for coonecting the two. Bugs today are limited by gravity because of their chitinous exoskeletons. If a bug got even the size of a chicken it'd probably crush itself flat. So theoretically, there must've been reduced gravity in the past, but there's no evidence I've ever seen to support this.

Actually bugs get larger, as they go deeper, and with depth comes more gravity.

for example, This little pill bug is this size at sea level
http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/okwild/misc/images/pill.jpg

But, in the deep sea it is gigantic
http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2006/09/060911104122.jpg

 

[Iron_cube]

Actually bugs get larger, as they go deeper, and with depth comes more gravity.

for example, This little pill bug is this size at sea level
http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/okwild/misc/images/pill.jpg

But, in the deep sea it is gigantic
http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2006/09/060911104122.jpg

That's so insane

 

[Darkside55]

Actually bugs get larger, as they go deeper, and with depth comes more gravity.

Well that's ridiculous. I've seen those isopods before, but the depth/gravity thing didn't dawn on me until you said it. I'll spend some time looking into this. It's very important that bugs on land, especially flying ones, would need reduced gravity or highly-strengthened carapaces. Massive wingspans, as well, lift proportional to area of the wings. The whole thing's a body mass to surface area ratio problem...joint stress increases with size...but something about the pressure underwater negating that? Lower surface area to mass ratio, maybe? I'll give it some thought.

At least we know (or at least we are speculating) on how the dropship got so massive: deep-sea gigantism.

Damn that's big.

Could that be your monster, Darkside?

Well it's certainly huge, and probably alive...but is it headed this way? The Cloverfield Monster is always headed right for you.

 

[Avoidist]

Always? That means your velocity must be greater than or equal to it, and always in the same direction.

Unless it gets you...

 

[GreatEmperor]

I would certainly love to work for Valve, even if it wasn't for Half-Life. But I'd be severely under-utilized.


I made up a synth I'm rather proud of that I never named, or rather I should say I never gave it a proper name. I've always referred to it internally as the "runner-flier." It was a synth duo consisting of a fast-attack aerial creature who supported a larger, bull-rush attack synth that it'd drop as a payload. I wrote a pre-Combine backstory for it and everything.

I had one for a large chemical weapons producer that essentially sprayed clouds of specialized chemicals but never wrote anything about it:hmph:

Outside of that...I mostly just analyze the creatures already exist.

Oh, and flying headcrabs, although I'm proabably far from the first person to think of that one. And that'd really be a subspecies.

:upstare:

Ah I wrote that wrong, my mistake. I'm still trying to figure this out myself (and so are paleoentomologists).

See, the higher oxygen is necessary for insects because their entire body acts as one big lung...air flows in, air flows out. And because bugs use up a lot of energy going about their daily activities, higher oxygen content means more air traveling through their tracheae, allowing their bodies to expand to greater sizes. So that's point one.

Point two is the gravity, which is probably completely unrelated, my bad for coonecting the two. Bugs today are limited by gravity because of their chitinous exoskeletons. If a bug got even the size of a chicken it'd probably crush itself flat. So theoretically, there must've been reduced gravity in the past, but there's no evidence I've ever seen to support this. In fact there's contrary evidence, evidence that says Earth's gravity at that time was constant with what it is now. The only differences I personally know of with regard to Earth's state were climate, oxygen content, and land formation. Could any of those factors be responsible? I dunno. But a big bug would need drastically lower gravity. Which explains how antlions can thrive in Xen, but they should be pancakes here.


I get bored sometimes and it's fun to say.

Cloverfield monster. Cloooooverfieeeeeld monsterrrrr.

You try it.

Mostly its about keeping its current durability in larger sizes, it could live with a thinner shell or different type of shell

Isnt that a movie about the large series of Lovecraft stories coming in theaters

 

[Godron]

I like that old dropship... the eye texture is exactly the same as the Mortar synth's eye. I like the new dropship even better though

I made up a synth I'm rather proud of that I never named, or rather I should say I never gave it a proper name. I've always referred to it internally as the "runner-flier." It was a synth duo consisting of a fast-attack aerial creature who supported a larger, bull-rush attack synth that it'd drop as a payload. I wrote a pre-Combine backstory for it and everything.

Nice... . How did it fly? In fact, how did the flying synth carry the other synth if it was larger?

I made up a Xen creature once. Not as detailed as yours, but basically it was a large thing shaped vaguely like a bullsquid only larger, thinner around the middle and a bit longer. The front end had two short tusks instead of tentacles, which it would use to burrow into the ground of Xen. You'll remember that it looks like a massive ball of roots, so it's probably organic, and therefore edible. The creature vomits its stomach juices into the hole and sucks up the resulting soup of nutrients. I never really decided where to put the eyes and other sense organs, but I knew it would need some way of defending itself against predators while its head was in the ground (it would take a while to liquify the ground). I don't know, it could have eyes on its tail, very good hearing, poison in its tissue that makes it bad to eat, even acid squirting out of its tail... I left it hanging, sort of.
And no, it hasn't got a name.

Point two is the gravity, which is probably completely unrelated, my bad for coonecting the two. Bugs today are limited by gravity because of their chitinous exoskeletons. If a bug got even the size of a chicken it'd probably crush itself flat. So theoretically, there must've been reduced gravity in the past, but there's no evidence I've ever seen to support this. In fact there's contrary evidence, evidence that says Earth's gravity at that time was constant with what it is now. The only differences I personally know of with regard to Earth's state were climate, oxygen content, and land formation. Could any of those factors be responsible? I dunno. But a big bug would need drastically lower gravity. Which explains how antlions can thrive in Xen, but they should be pancakes here.

Why would a big insect crush itself flat because of its exoskeleton? Do you mean the exoskeleton would be too weak to support it or too heavy? And I don't understand... why would there have had to be reduced gravity in past? Is there fossil evidence of giant bugs or something?

Well that's ridiculous. I've seen those isopods before, but the depth/gravity thing didn't dawn on me until you said it. I'll spend some time looking into this. It's very important that bugs on land, especially flying ones, would need reduced gravity or highly-strengthened carapaces. Massive wingspans, as well, lift proportional to area of the wings. The whole thing's a body mass to surface area ratio problem...joint stress increases with size...but something about the pressure underwater negating that? Lower surface area to mass ratio, maybe? I'll give it some thought.

At least we know (or at least we are speculating) on how the dropship got so massive: deep-sea gigantism.

If anything, gravity would decrease with depth a tiny, neglegable amount, wouldn't it? You'd have less Earth below you trying to pull you towards it, and more above you, trying to pull you upwards. But seeing as the depth of the oceans is so tiny compared to the radius of the Earth, the difference would hardly be noticed, probably.
That giant woodlouse is amazing, and I have no idea why it grew so big... the main effect of size that I know of is temperature - a bigger volume/surface area ratio means less heat is lost, because each cm^3 of heat producing body mass has less area to lose that heat through, effectively.

I don't know. I've gone on too much.

 

[357]

Actually bugs get larger, as they go deeper, and with depth comes more gravity.

That is not logical - the deeper you go - the bigger the pressure is, so gravity wouldn't actually be a factor
at all - the force of pressure would be way bigger than the force of gravity...

 

[Silarn]

That's a severe misquote. Depth does not increase gravity - at least not by significant amounts. Depth in the ocean increases pressure. The deeper you go, the more water you have pushing down on you from above. If your body relies on an exoskeleton structure, this means you must become larger and sturdier so you aren't simply crushed. Insects living on land would be smashed as easily as we would at such depths.

 

[Darkside55]

That is not logical - the deeper you go - the bigger the pressure is, so gravity wouldn't actually be a factor
at all - the force of pressure would be way bigger than the force of gravity...

Depth does not increase gravity - at least not by significant amounts. Depth in the ocean increases pressure. The deeper you go, the more water you have pushing down on you from above. If your body relies on an exoskeleton structure, this means you must become larger and sturdier so you aren't simply crushed. Insects living on land would be smashed as easily as we would at such depths.

Thanks guys. I was thinking it had to be something to do with pressure that causes the gigantism, and that the isopods spread out their mass over a larger surface area so their skeleton doesn't buckle. So that explains that.

Nice... . How did it fly? In fact, how did the flying synth carry the other synth if it was larger?

The other synth wasn't too much larger, and the flier had a massive wingspan. Post-Combine, the flier's wings were adapted to be thruster-like, creating their own amount of lift while the wingspan still allowed the creature to soar. But because it was designed like this, it always had to make huge arcs when coming around to attack you, so you'd be dodging dive attacks from this thing while fighting a land creature that's trying to bowl you over. Neither of them are tough, a few shots'd take them down, but you're being assaulted from land and air at the same time and it taxes you.

I like your idea for the Xen creature. I've always seen Xen as rocks, not roots, but in either case dissolving the ground to feast on it is a cool idea. Mainly because Xen, thus far, has no real "bottom feeders." The bottom of the food chain are chumtoads, and I suppose they're the only things that eat vegetation. Everything else seems to be carnivorous. I'd imagine that SOMETHING on their world had to eat the local flora, or resort to eating minerals from rocks.

That's a good idea, from an ecological perspective. And I can imagine what it looks like from the description...'cept I'm just picturing it without having eyes at all.

Why would a big insect crush itself flat because of its exoskeleton? Do you mean the exoskeleton would be too weak to support it or too heavy? And I don't understand... why would there have had to be reduced gravity in past? Is there fossil evidence of giant bugs or something?

Well I have to clarify again, the way I'm thinking of it is if you took the bugs we have today and increased their size. That's what I'm basing it off of.

So if you took a bug and made it big, its length, diameter, and exoskeletal thickness would be increased by whatever factor they're scaled up by. But their body mass would be scaled by this factor cubed, putting a lot of stress on them. And because of the way insects are built, with their exoskeletons linked together on what are called pin joints, their bodies (at current sizes) already experience forces 3,000 times their own body weight during motion. If you had a large insect...well, that's that. Joint stress increases with size. Because of this, gravity'd probably cause their skeletons to buckle, crushing them.

But Xenian insects and the dropship and all that, there's probably something in their physiology that allows them to overcome that. That's always the hardest thing, taking stuff from fiction and trying to translate it to real science. And the only time I ever study this stuff is at times like these, so I'm by no means an expert in the field. If I were I could probably explain it better.

Oh and yeah, there were giant insects before. Dragonflies the size of hawks, spiders with 50cm leg spans, all kinds of stuff. Arthropods were huge back in the day.

If anything, gravity would decrease with depth a tiny, neglegable amount, wouldn't it? You'd have less Earth below you trying to pull you towards it, and more above you, trying to pull you upwards. But seeing as the depth of the oceans is so tiny compared to the radius of the Earth, the difference would hardly be noticed, probably.
That giant woodlouse is amazing, and I have no idea why it grew so big... the main effect of size that I know of is temperature - a bigger volume/surface area ratio means less heat is lost, because each cm^3 of heat producing body mass has less area to lose that heat through, effectively.

I think gravity is constant no matter where you are.

Interesting stuff about the temperature. More to look into.

 

[Narvi]

I think gravity is constant no matter where you are.

Inaccurate. Gravity technically doesn't exert force at the Earth's core, for instance. IIRC.

 

[Darkside55]

Well I mean anywhere you can get to. Gravity's constant if you're standing at the top of a mountain or down in a valley, or even on the ocean floor. That's how I've always heard it.

 

[Planetary]

Well, technically, there are minor changes, but that's really nitpicking.

The universal constant, however, is universal.